Dean/Kucinich?

[HFishbine]

The more I think about it...

http://www.ericblumrich.com/dlc.html

[AP]

1. Dean's gotta treat DK with some more respect if he wants DK to be his VP.

[HFishbine]

3. Did I miss something?

Did Doc D diss Special K?

[goodhue]

8. he ignores

Dean regularly ignores Kucinich and generally acts as if the Kucinich candidacy does not exist. Just like the media. Both at their own peril.

[CMT]

11. if that is the case

then so too do Kerry, Gephardt, Edwards, Clark, and the other front running candidates. The media and other candidates generally ignored Dean too until he started rising in the polls. Even when he did the establishment felt it was just a bubble waiting to burst, but time and time again Dean proved them wrong. DK might do the same.

[goodhue]

19. Edwards for one

appears very gracious towards Dennis and does not ignore him. Check the debate transcripts and you will find instances of Edwards graciously acknowledging positions of Kucinich, Braun, etc. The only instance I recall of Dean refering to Dennis directly was when Dean said that unlike Dennis he does not support cutting the defense budget 15% during a war on terrorism. Otherwise he has generally ignored him even when answering direct challenges to him by Dennis.

[Eloriel]

38. Gracious except when he's misrepresenting Dean's record

which he's doing quite regularly in Iowa and on TV.

Eloriel

[CMT]

6. give examples of Dean not treating DK with respect

I haven't noticed him doing this. I think DK has attacked Dean more than Dean has attacked DK.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

7. "I'm the only candidate who voted against the war"

how's that?

[HFishbine]

9. You kill me

All I ever see from you are posts cracking on Dean. All these months and I still don't know who you'd like me to change to or why (other than "Dean bad.") But, you're falling down on the job. What Dean actually said was "I'm the only candidate who voted against the war" -- an obvious mistatement, but clearly not an intentional dig at Kucinich.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

16. Oh and.... "Graham is not a major candidate"

or whatever the fuck Dean said about Graham which was disrespectful in the extreme. and I fixed my title above to match your quote.
And since you ask- Please vote the best man for the job of President: John Kerry.

[HFishbine]

22. John Kerry?

I'm focusing on the major candidates. ;)

[RetroLounge]

30. Apparently Dean was correct about Graham

or is he still in the running?

[tinanator]

34. he's running hard

for V/P

[CMT]

10. the rally speeches I've heard

including the one I attended in September here he pointedly mentioned that he, DK, Braun and Sharpton opposed the war.

[arcos]

47. Dean NEVER said that...

because he was in NO position to vote for or against the war. He is a former governor, not a sitting senator or representative.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

48. He did indeed say it

he acted as if he had cast a vote himself and DID say it.

[drewb]

2. Would Dean allow himself to be seen with "Little Kucinich"???

When I say "Little Kucinich", I am using a term first seen here ->

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=124&topic_id=32144

Edit...

I'd rather see DK / HD, but I'd definately vote for that pair either way!

[JohnKleeb]

4. They are both small guys

5'8 about each but hey this ticket would be good.

[BJ]

5. I've had Gephardt and Edwards phone bankers hang up on me

After I asked them both if Gephardt/Edwards voted for the Iraq War Resolution and why-- getting the standard "He gassed his own people. He threatened his neighbors" response-- I launch into my "Saddam's only real crime was not turning his country over to the World Bank and IMF" speech.

They don't want to hear it.

I'm forwarding that eric blumrich link. Great!

[HFishbine]

12. Kucinich Campaign

called me last night. They're not giving up.

[JohnKleeb]

13. I was under the impression you all wanted Clark as your running mate

:D

[CMT]

14. I would rather have DK

eom.

[JohnKleeb]

15. I know some would

Personally if I were a Dean supporter I would do lol my bias I am sorry, but here's why, your guy is known as a maverick one who stands up to the bastards right? Kucinich has been doing this too and he has a solid record. Personally it sounds more appealing than Dean-Clark to me but I have a bias heh.

[HFishbine]

20. Me personally?

I'm undecided (not even completely sold on Dean at the top of the ticket, but strongly leaning that way). I can see different VP possibilites depending on whether I think it's best to have a VP candidate who would compliment Dean (generally re-inforce his ideals, style and goals) or suppliment the ticket (add expereince and skills that Dean lacks). Depending on that consideration, I can imagine, Kucinich, Clark, Graham or even Clinton.

[Padraig18]

29. I do.

:hi:

[LSparkle]

17. would make me vote for Dean

same way I did with Clinton -- didn't get onboard until he got Gore as Veep.

[Nederland]

18. Never

Kucinich is too much of a wimp. The guy is afraid of Chris Matthews for Christ sakes.

[loyalsister]

21. Bad match

I would be very disappointed if the Physician candidate who used to be on the board of Planned Parenthood and has been so vocal about choice selected a guy who only recently began to respect women's right to self determination and voted to ban stem cell research.
It's also a terrible match because Dean is not as outwardly religious. He has said he doesn't want to listen to fundamentalist preachers anymore.

[quaker bill]

23. I have my doubts about VP

But DK belongs in the administration. We could certainly use someone to reconstruct all the environmental regs undone by the misadministration. Perhaps even write a few new ones?

[JohnKleeb]

24. Nah secretary of interior I already would have someone else in mind

Not saying that DK isnt good on these issues but Bobby Kennedy Jr would be perfect for the interior.

[Hippo_Tron]

25. Dean seems like the same person as DK...

Except Dean can run a better campaign. Dean and DK wouldn't be a very balanced ticket.

[cryofan]

26. I will forego my Nader-Green Party vote if Kucinich is VP

Otherwise, I vote for Nader if Dean is Presidential candidate for the Democrats.

[RetroLounge]

28. Why not just vote for Bush again

???

[Gato Moteado]

31. he's in texas....it won't hurt the dem

i imagine if he were in a swing state he would not do that

[Hippo_Tron]

45. Bad attitude...

We CAN win Texas.

[Clark Can WIN]

37. Or you could just vote for the Bush/Stalin ticket

just as meaningful and effective.

I don't like Dean but I will vote for him in a FREAKING HEARTBEAT over King George the second.

[Guaranteed]

27. No, we're not doing that. nt

[mzmolly]

32. We need both their voices, but they won't run together....

:shrug:

[MercutioATC]

33. Cure Dean's (unfounded) "unelectable liberal" label with KUCINICH????

...yeah, that'll help...

[JI7]

35. no, kucnich (besides self) is for edwards

if kucinich was to endorse anyone other than himself it would be john edwards. kucinich has spoken well of him and edwards likes him very much also.

[RichV]

36. Not to piss anyone off...

but DK won't be on the ticket. Period. He will, however, be back in Congress where he'll remain relevant.

[adamblast]

39. Dean has turned his back on gays by opposing the Massachussetts ruling...

...and as much as I'd like to support a "viable" progressive, I cannot condone someone who is ready to throw my people to the wolves in order to pander to the homophobes and bigots of the Southern states. Kucinich has my vote as of Wednesday.

[Sean Reynolds]

40. Uh, when did he oppose the Mass ruling?

I've read his statement and he clearly states he supported the ruling. Please show me a link where he say's the ruling was bad.

[adamblast]

41. Only 3 minor candidates support gay marriage. Dean is chicken.

http://www.365gay.com/newscontent/111903demsMarriage.htm

Only Kucinich, Sharpton and Braun have spoken in favor of gay marriage. Dean wants it both ways: he says gays deserve equal rights, but then he says marriage is for men and women only. He only favors domestic partnerships.

Sorry, but if I'm too hot a potato for him to handle, then he doesn't deserve my vote.

[Sean Reynolds]

42. Twisting Dean's words.

Dean stated that he is NOT against gay marriage, but wants to leave it up to the states. He believes that EVERY state should adopt either gay marriage OR civil unions, if a state does support gay marriage, he would not decree it wrong.

Some quotes by Dean:

"I think civil unions will continue to sweep across the country . . . . As president, I would recognize civil unions federally, because equal rights under the law doesn't just mean equal rights under state law. It means equal rights under federal law." (Carla Marinucci, "Democrats Go West To Get To White House," The San Francisco Chronicle, October 19, 2002)

----

KING: Let's talk about other issues. The president said he wants to codify a law that secures the fact that there will be no gay marriage. Vermont has what, gay union?

DEAN: We have civil unions, which gives equal rights -- doesn't give marriage, but it gives equal rights in terms of insurance, employment rights, inheritance rights, hospital visitation, to every single Vermonter, no matter who they are.

You know, interestingly enough, Dick Cheney took a position in 2000 in the debates that is not very different than mine. He said, this is not a federal issue. I really am inclined to leave this matter to the states, and I think we ought to let states figure out how to give equal rights to everybody in the way that they do it. So I think this is kind of a political issue at the federal level, but the power to decide these things really belongs to the state level.

KING: All right. On your own state level, if it were a referendum, would you vote for gay marriage?

DEAN: If what were -- we don't have a referendum in my state, and we have civil unions, and we deliberate chose civil unions, because we didn't think marriage was necessary in order to give equal rights to all people.

Marriage is a religious institution, the way I see it. And we're not in the business of telling churches who they can and cannot marry. But in terms of civil rights and equal rights under the law for all Americans, that is the state's business, and that's why we started civil unions.

KING: So you would be opposed to a gay marriage?

DEAN: If other states want to do it, that's their business. We didn't choose to do that in our state.

KING: And you personally would oppose it?

DEAN: I don't know, I never thought about that very much, because we didn't do it in our state for that reason. The body politic agreed in our state that it wasn't the thing to do, so we didn't do it.

I'll tell you what I will do, though. If Massachusetts decides that they're going to do gay marriage, I believe there is a federal involvement, and the federal involvement is not to recognize marriage or civil unions but it is to recognize equal rights under the law. So that if a couple enters into a domestic partnership, or a gay marriage in Canada, or a civil union in Vermont, I think those couples are entitled to federal benefits.

-----

DR. DEAN: No, because I don't think that is the right of the federal government. I was very much opposed, unlike some of the folks I'm running against, to the Defense of Marriage Act. I did not support the Defense of Marriage Act, because I do not think it's the federal government's business to get involved in what has traditionally been the matter for the states to deal with. But by the same token, I would not tell other states that they had to have a civil union statute or that they had to have a marriage statute. That is the not the province of the federal government. What I will go as president of the United States is insist that every state find a way to recognize the same legal rights for gay couples as they do for everybody else. Equal rights under the law is a fundamental tenet of America, and that's where we need to be.

-----

If California accepts gay marriage, he'd support it. But if a more conservative state like Utah wanted civil unions he'd support that too.

Equal rights, whether it's in the form of civil unions or gay marriage. Also he'd repeal DOMA, which basically makes it easier for states to deal with gay marriage. So no Dean didn't state he was against a federal law mandating equal treatment for gays. JUST against a federal law mandating GAY marriage for gays. Which everyone knows can only pass IF the Supreme Court rules that it's unconstitutional that gays do not have the rights to marry.

Dean's statement on the Mass. ruling:

"As Governor of Vermont, I was proud to sign the nation's first law establishing civil unions for same-sex couples. Today, the Massachusetts Court appears to have taken a similar approach to the Vermont Supreme Court and its decision that led to our civil unions law. One way or another, the state should afford same-sex couples equal treatment under law in areas such as health insurance, hospital visitation and inheritance rights.

"There will be those who try to use the decision today to divide Americans. Instead, this decision should be viewed as an opportunity to affirm what binds us together -- a fundamental belief in the equality of human beings, regardless of race, gender or sexual orientation."


The text in bold states it all; Dean is NOT against gay marriage. He believes that it's the state's right to choose such an act, but also believes that EVERY state should adopt either that or gay civil unions.

[ErasureAcer]

43. It will be the only way I'll be voting for Dean as President.

I wholeheartidly think Dennis will not settle for VP though.

[ThirdWheelLegend]

44. exactly..

only way I would vote for Dean as the nominee.

Anyway, I don't think Dean would never choose Kucinich as his veep.
Or vice-versa...
Kucinich is way more progressive, they would be at odds over alot of policies.


TWL

[0rganism]

46. Would it significantly help Dean carry Ohio?

That's the only reason I can see for Dean picking DK over Edwards or Clark.