Dean's Iowa ad on Gephardt's role in the Iraq War Resolution

[pruner]

http://mfile.akamai.com/920/rm/thepost.download.akamai.com/920/politics/111803-7v.ram

[NewYorkerfromMass]

1. Dean flipped on the 87 billion (He lied)

He said he was for it and now he switched. He said he would approve the 87 billion if Bush would repeal the tax cuts.
Oh and this stupid ad will lose him more votes in Iowa.

[KaraokeKarlton]

2. You wish...

pppfffffttttt......

[NewYorkerfromMass]

4. He said it:

"I would oppose President Bush's latest request for a blank check unless the President submits a new plan that is paid for out of the tax cut"

http://www.forumforamerica.com/index.php?showtopic=160

Now I know why they call Dean a waffler.

[Renew Deal]

6. How can he say he doesn't support it

if he does if if if? This guy continues to muddy the waters. Who is going to call him on it?

[Skwmom]

12. Rove and Co. will call him on it.

Right after the general election. I think the national ads will focus on the following:

1) You can't trust Dean, he is nothing but a liar (for every ad they run against Bush calling him dishonest and a liar they'll come right back with one about Dean). To attack someone's honesty and credibility it certainly helps if you have the moral authority to do so.

2) He is too unstable to be commander-in-chief. With the footage they have of him at the IOWA dinner, I don't think this will be difficult to do.

3) He is weak on defense. I'm willing to bet they'll even bring up the draft dodging.

4) He plays political games with national defense. His talking out of both sides of his mouth on this issue will really come back to haunt him with a vengence. Not only does it expose him as a liar but it will show that he stooped so low as to play politics with national defense.

In addition, when they run an ad against Bush attacking him for tax cuts for the wealthy, they'll just run the same ad against Dean and on and on it will go.

This will enable Rove to reduce the amount of Republican defections and reduce the enthusism for a Dean presidency from his current supporters and other Democrats. Yes Rove is salivating for Dean.

On Edit: They'll save the gay union stuff for targeted areas.

[rumguy]

13. What happened at Iowa dinner that makes Dean

possibly appear to unstable to be commander in chief? I missed the telecast....

[Renew Deal]

14. Well....

YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU HAVE THE POWER!

He gave the croud a good 15 of those before Tony Robbins subdued him.

[rumguy]

15. so did it come accross as inspiring or wierdly cultish?

i guess it depends on who you ask....

[Renew Deal]

16. Exactly

We have a whole thread somewhere on this. There were a couple news article about it being cultish.

[Skwmom]

17. Depends on who you talk to.

But to many it will come accross as wierdly cultish especially when you add in the fact that he said something along the lines of this is not about making Howard Dean president this is about making us president.

[phirili]

23. Dean acts like he can withdraw his supporters from the democratic base

if he is not the democratic nominee

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

25. Dean has said NUMEROUS times

that he will vigorously support whoever the nominee is.

[drfemoe]

8. This is not lying

..."I would oppose President Bush's latest request for a blank check unless the President submits
a new plan that is paid for out of the tax cut.
The new plan must give our troops what they need and bring them home
safely, share this burden with other nations, ensure the stabilization and
rebuilding of Iraq, and make sure that the billions of dollars we are spending
are not wasted and used to pay off big corporations.
Congress must demand that the President submit this new plan
immediately."...

http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=9936

What did the dems get? Nothing! No oversight, no anti-profiteering regulations, no loans, certainly no PLAN . nothing! They let him get another blank check. THAT'S what Dean is opposed to.

Too bad some of the other dems don't know how to 'waffle'. They just keep making the same mistakes over and over.
That's not a bonus in my book.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

26. In the context of ad it is quite wrong to so contrast with Gephardt

The contrast is not that great. Dean did NOT categorically say NO to the 87 billion. He clearly never eliminated that possibility.

[KaraokeKarlton]

9. Did Bush take back the tax cuts to pay for it?

Nope, he didn't. He said he'd oppose it unless Bush took back the tax cuts to pay for it. Bush didn't take back the tax cuts so Dean still opposes it. How, pray tell, is that waffling? :eyes:

[ozone_man]

22. I think the folks you're addressing speak in half truths.

Rarely do they show the full context of a statement. If you read deeper, you see what Dean meant. I've also heard him say that the $87B could have gone a long way toward establishing a national health care program. He did not approve of tax cuts for the rich, while deficit spending to support Haliburton and this immoral war for no reason. Yes, we're there already, and we've got to fix the mess that we've started. That takes some money, but only with strings attached as Dean mentions.

[Hep]

31. Did the president submit that plan?

eom.

[slinkerwink]

3. Bush would never repeal the tax cuts

and Dean didn't lie on this issue.

[Renew Deal]

5. I thought he did too.

He might be trying to cloud the issue. Someone needs to find the debate transcripts where he says he is doing it to support our troops. He was either not telling the whole truth then, or now.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

7. Yes. He was fencing, hedging, "clouding" whatever...

It was not a categorical 'NO'. (Unlike Kerry's where he said 'yeah- I'll approve it if you tell us where it's going'.)
I am really getting to dislike this guy.

[KC21304]

10. SSSHHHHHHHHHHHH ! You're not allowed to say that

at Dean Underground.

[SahaleArm]

21. LOL *nm*

[Egnever]

28. um how is Kerry saying yea ill approve it if....

any different from Deans again?


DEAN: I believe if the president is serious about supporting our troops in Iraq that he has to say where he's going to get the money from, and that means he's got to get rid of $87 billion worth of the tax cuts that went to Ken Lay and his friends at Enron.

KUCINICH: Would you fund keep the troops in Iraq?

DEAN: Yes.

KUCINICH: You would?

DEAN: If the president was willing to pay for it.



So somehow you think deans if is despicable but kerry's is A-OK

your hypocracy is glaring

[RetroLounge]

20. Wow! NYFM does not like Dean!

Shouldn't that be in Latest Breakig News?

Who Knew?

[Hep]

30. So how did he switch!

You make the claim, and as usual, fail to demonstrate it. Someday I hope to live in a world where intellectuals talk issues not mean spirited reactionaries.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

33. It is false for him to imply he was categorically against it

when in fact he left open the possibility of accepting it. It is disingenuous for him to try and contrast himself with Gephardt this way.

[Renew Deal]

11. Debate transcripts are here.

I don't have te time right now...

Happy hunting

http://democrats.org/whitehouse/debates/index.html

[JNelson6563]

18. Ok, lemme see if I got this straight

We have Dick Gephardt who tripped all over himslef to get to the rose garden and get in there right next to the boy king for the photo op PROVING he stood shoulder to shoulder with pResident Bush in this illegal war.

This after an most uninspiring "leadership" performance in the House which did a fabulous job of rolling over for the boy king and then losing (or doing nothing to help gain/hold) more seats in '02 to the fascists.

But no, it's Dean who's the enemy here. Let's make it a 5 minute hate instead of two. Two just doesn't seem to be enough any more. How dare that Howard Dean point out what a fascist appeaser Gephardt's been! A good ol' fashion stoning is too good for that malcontent!

Oy! :eyes:

Julie

[Skwmom]

24. Seems like Howard Dean supported Bush

when he thought it would benefit him politically,

From Feb 02:


He (Dean) gets a deluge of phone calls from reporters asking him to clarify his position. Which is -- "as I've said about eight times today," he says, annoyed -- that Saddam must be disarmed, but with a multilateral force under the auspices of the United Nations. If the U.N. in the end chooses not to enforce its own resolutions, then the U.S. should give Saddam 30 to 60 days to disarm, and if he doesn't, unilateral action is a regrettable, but unavoidable, choice.

http://fordean.org/aa/issues/press_view.asp?ID=398

Plus, his take on Bush. “He (Dean) does credit Bush for being "popular because he knows who he is, and he speaks unambiguously about his message." “ I think Bush's message is just about as clear as Howard Deans.

[CTLawGuy]

27. this is based on evidence of course

If there were EVIDENCE of WMDs, which Dean believes there was not, then Dean would be in favor of disarming saddam hussein, and who wouldnt? Bush NEVER PROVIDED EVIDENCE, which was ok by the White Flag Dems, but not by Howard Dean. Dean believes it is wrong to invade a country for no freakin reason.

[Skwmom]

29. He clearly states "Saddam must be disarmed,"

Hmmm I'm not seeing your logic here.

[RetroLounge]

19. Wow! An Anti-Dean Circle Jerk

now that's unusual, especially from the usual suspects...

[Hep]

32. You'd think they'd be spending their time

trying to get their guy on the ballot in my state.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

34. Dean is the trojan horse in this race- not Clark.

and we want send his Bush-Lite ass back to Burlington.