Kerry opts out of matching funds? He was never eligible

[Hep]

Like the politician he is, he among several others were waiting for Dean to lead the way on the issue so that they could simultaneously opt out AND criticize Dean for option out. But Kerry was never declared eligible for matching funds in the first place. And it turns out he can't spend his wife's money like he thought he could.

Did Kerry have bad advisors or what? How many elections has he run in? He had no idea how campaign finance works?

I hope his campaign is more on top of things than they look. Kerry's running out of time if he wants to be on the ballot in NC, but then, he says he can win without the south. Whatev!

[Egnever]

1. You have a link for this?

I wasnt aware that he never achieved eligability. I would like to see some proof of this.

[eileen_d]

5. I non-petulantly request that a link be provided

In the grand GD tradition of being courteous to all posters who post allegations without providing links to back up their claims. :eyes:

[Hep]

8. Ha ha ha!

*cough*

http://www.fec.gov/finance/2004matching/matching.html

[eileen_d]

13. Well, thanks for the link!

[Hep]

22. Anytime

Maybe next time you'll refrain from the petulance.

[eileen_d]

28. I am not petulant

I just like to have sources for information cited. I guess that shows my ignorance or something. Fuckin' GD is bizarro-world...

[NewYorkerfromMass]

31. What's really bizarre is assuming NOT applying means ineligible. nt

[Hep]

34. That's exactly what it means, how could it mean anything different

The applicatio nis for eligibility. You get NO matching funds if you don't apply. This is hard for you to get?

He may have met the criteria, but he wasn't eligible until deemed so by the FEC. Your difficulty with this issue is staggering.

[dfong63]

37. if you "just like to have sources", then you can ask for them politely

without expressing sarcasm or mocking other people's credulity.

[Hep]

6. According to the FEC

Lieberman just became the third candidate to be declared eligible for matching funds. The first was DEAN, the second was LaRouche.

Kerry nevre even submitted an application. Underhanded bastard is what I now call him.

At least Dean showed an INTENTION and an INTEREST in taking matching funds. For Kerry, it appears to have all been a ploy.

http://www.fec.gov/finance/2004matching/matching.html

[Egnever]

14. Thank you

I gotta say it doesnt even begin to suprise me that Kerry is once again posing.

[sandnsea]

64. Kucinich is a liar too then

His name isn't on that page. Neither is Carol's or Al Sharpton's. The final application is obviously different than the quarterly reporting.

[Hep]

66. No one's a liar

Kucinich, Braun, and Sharpton have not applied yet. They may not meet the criteria. But we know Kerry did. That's what makes his not applying so sinister. Frankly, Kerry never took a stand, which is pretty much on par with his last three years of service in the senate.

[sandnsea]

68. Oooh, so there's no reason to apply yet

Just because Kerry met the criteria, doesn't mean he had to apply. Do you know if a candidate can apply BEFORE they even announce? Dean announced in June, Kerry and Edwards in September. Do you suppose that might make a difference?

And what do you mean Kerry never took a stand? Howard made it a huge issue last spring and Kerry said all along he would stay in campaign financing as long as everybody else did. Apparently he knew about Howard abandoning campaign financing in 2000.

[Hep]

71. Can you do ANY research?

Just because Kerry met the criteria, doesn't mean he had to apply. Do you know if a candidate can apply BEFORE they even announce? Dean announced in June, Kerry and Edwards in September. Do you suppose that might make a difference?

Dean applied for federal matching funds on 6/17. He declared his official candidacy on 6/23. So yes, you can apply before declaring. Your latest search for a cop out has failed.

But it doesn't matter. If Kerry met the criteria, why not just cover his bases and apply for federal matching funds? It's an easy form to fill out.

And what do you mean Kerry never took a stand?

What part do you not understand? His "stand" was to wait and see what the others did.

Howard made it a huge issue last spring and Kerry said all along he would stay in campaign financing as long as everybody else did. Apparently he knew about Howard abandoning campaign financing in 2000.

You're not helping your cause by claiming that Kerry knew all along that Dean wouldn't take public financing and waited before deciding what to do with his campaign. But it would explain why Kerry is doing so badly. No matter how you phrase it, Kerry waited until someone else decided what to do. Not what I call leadership by any stretch.

[sandnsea]

77. Why didn't Edwards?

This is a stupid nothing allegation. If you had bothered to look a little deeper, you would have known that. I posted the dates of the applications, Edwards filed on Nov 14. Clark filed in November. This is nothing and you owe a big fat apology right out on the main thread because this is a serious accusation and you're dead wrong.

[Hep]

78. Still waiting for you to back your assertion up

I don't know why Edwards didn't apply until late. It looks like most people waited until Dean announced before they sent their applications in. Go figure. Politically expedient. But nowhere near the same league as "I'm gonna wait for others to decide for me".

This may be nothing to you, that's fine. I figure you have to set the bar pretty low to support Kerry and this is suppotrs that theory. I mean, I don't care how you feel about matching funds. But the fact that Kerry was happy to wait for someone else to dictate what HIS campaign would do is just pathetic. That's not a leader.

[sandnsea]

53. The Dates - Nov 14, Final Day

That's why this all happened that week, Nov 14 was the filing date. Look at the dates. Edwards filed on Nov 14, Clark on Nov 10. Dean filed in July, LaRouche in September, Lieberman in October. Kerry didn't file because Dean opted out and there was obviously no point. Gawd what people get riled up about.

http://www.fec.gov/finance/2004matching/

[Hep]

63. Kerry didn't file because of Dean

I love it. Kerry just didn't know which bandwagon to jump on and needed someone else to take the point.

Can you point me to your link that says the deadline was the 14th? I think you're wrong.

[sandnsea]

67. It's common sense

It's obvious to me by the various dates. And the fact that the home page of the site has fines for a late filing date of Nov 19. And I remember it, but can't find a link right now.

And look here, Howard Dean's done it before, in the Governor's race of 2000. Why am I not surprised.

http://rutlandherald.com/hdean/11622

[Hep]

72. I asked for proof

not a half assed explanation for your logic. Next time I suggest you read for comprehension. The fines you're talking about are not fines for late applying for matching funds.

Yeah, you remember it but can't find a link. Typical. So you puke up an unrelated link for the sole purpose of your Dean bashing. Desperate, but not surprising.

[sandnsea]

76. Where is YOUR proof?

You just have a bunch of unsubstantiated half-ass allegations. Not a shred of proof. He didn't apply. Kucinich didn't apply. Edwards didn't apply until Nov 14. Big fucking deal. You're making shit up out of thin air.

[Hep]

80. Making shit up?

Yeah! If you call the FEC thin air. That's fine.

Here, I looked through this and couldn't find any information pertaining to a deadline. Check sections 9033 and 9037 and 9038.

http://www.fec.gov/law/feca.pdf

Kucinich didn't apply. But the least you can do is consider how much money they've raised before using them as examples. And the deadline has not passed. People who haven't applied may not meet the criteria. There's no way to know. But one thing we do know is that Kerry claims Dean is the reason why he opted out, yet Dean applied for matching funds. If Kerry was going to shadow Dean through the primary, he could have been more on top of shit.

I think it's funny how confronted with TRUE information you claim I'm lying. It's the end of the world!

[sandnsea]

81. Dec 1

Scroll down to page 10, midway in the right column. In order to be eligible to start using matching funds in January, the decision has to be made by Dec 1. Let's see, there's no rule about when a candidate has to file their application, Edwards and Clark and others hadn't filed their application, the candidates have until the end of November in order to get funds in January, yeah, I'd say you were making shit up.

http://www.fec.gov/pdf/record/2003/nov03.pdf

[NewYorkerfromMass]

2. This is a lie

[PVnRT]

3. No, it isn't

One of the emails sent out by his campaign mentioned this - I would post it but it's been deleted.

[Hep]

10. lie?

http://www.fec.gov/finance/2004matching/matching.html

Show me Kerry's application.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

15. Show me where he was ineligible. nt

[Hep]

23. Reading is kewl!

Uh, you have to apply for eligibility. Kerry never bothered to submit an application. At least Dean has proof that he actually and honestly CONSIDERD taking matching funds. Either Kerry couldn't be troubled to apply, or he never had the support necessary to be eligible. Either way, he never applied. Most of the other candidates waited until early november to send in their applications, oddly, just after Dean announced.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

26. eligibility comes before applying

although I guess in some illogical way you can pretend otherwise. ...maybe it's a self esteem thing?

[Hep]

30. This is laugh out loud funny!

So your argument is that you are eligible before you apply for eligibility?

That's great!

I think you need a refresher. Say it this way: Kerry might or might not meet all of the criteria for eligibility, but he is not eligible until his application is approved. For instance, only THREE people are eligible, Dean, LaRouche, and Lieberman. Why? Not only because they meet the criteria, but because their application was turned in and approved.

With the kind of weak BS you're spouting, I woulnd't stick my neck out and question the logic of others if I were you.

[Octafish]

4. So what? Sen. Kerry's the best qualified candidate for President.

No amount of smearing will change that!

Kerry is the BEST.

[Renew Deal]

9. Sorry but...

this doesn't look like smearing. Please correct me.

[Hep]

11. I'm being accused of smearing?

I attack with facts, backed up by the FEC, and now I'm a liar and a smear-er-er-er?

Sorry guys. Your man screwed up, looks like an idiot.

http://www.fec.gov/finance/2004matching/matching.html

[Octafish]

58. What facts? Let's go over it point by point.

I seldom do this, but you really are a special case.

HEP: Kerry opts out of matching funds? He was never eligible

The Truth: Yes, Sen. Kerry is eligible. John Kerry opted out to remain competitive with Dean, who’s already spent millions on TV ads saturating New Hampshire. Personally, I like the rolled up sleeves bit as it shows what kind of a hard worker this ex-governor ex-doctor ex-stockbroker really is.

HEP: Like the politician he is, he among several others were waiting for Dean to lead the way on the issue so that they could simultaneously opt out AND criticize Dean for option out. But Kerry was never declared eligible for matching funds in the first place. And it turns out he can't spend his wife's money like he thought he could.

Teresa Heinz can use her money any fucking way she wants, as long as its legal. That includes funding her husband's campaign. D'oh.

Here's an article explaining how Kerry opting out (along with Bush and Bush-Lite Dean) actually help the other DEMs. It makes CLEAR Kerry was eligible. Then you probably didn't see it, right, Hep?

Trio’s decision to skip public funds aids other hopefuls

By SHARON THEIMER The Associated Press

WASHINGTON – Fund-raising front-runners President Bush, Howard Dean and John Kerry are giving the rest of the presidential candidates a short-term boost in the wallet by skipping taxpayer financing next year.

Because the three are turning away the assistance from taxpayers who check a box on their returns, the eight candidates still participating in the program are expected to get substantially more federal money at the start of the primary season.

The Federal Election Commission initially estimated candidates would only get 40 cents to 50 cents of every dollar they were entitled to when the first checks are sent in January.

But Bush, Dean and Kerry are saving the program millions with their decision, meaning the rest of the candidates could get roughly 75 cents to 80 cents on the dollar, based on an Associated Press analysis of FEC and campaign estimates.

CONTINUED...

http://nashuatelegraph.com/Main.asp?SectionID=25&SubSectionID=354&ArticleID=93905

Back to Hep's take on the subject...

HEP: Did Kerry have bad advisors or what? How many elections has he run in? He had no idea how campaign finance works?

Kerry has been a US Senator for 19 years. He knows how campaign financing works and that’s why he’s been a strong SUPPORTER of campaign finance reform. Sen. Kerry wants public financing for ALL federal elections. And Sen. Kerry has never taken a dime in corporate PAC money.

Sen. Kerry is very familiar with how Big Money corrupts the political system — In his time in the Senate, John Kerry has exposed criminality of the BCCI affair and drug-running by Ollie North and his operatives in the Iran-Contra affair. Howard Dean doesn’t even know what that means. I bet you and a lot of his supporters don’t either.

HEP: I hope his campaign is more on top of things than they look. Kerry's running out of time if he wants to be on the ballot in NC, but then, he says he can win without the south. Whatev!

Kerry intends to be competitive in the South. Why? Because the region is home to many patriotic Americans, people who believe in putting their nation ahead of themselves, people who have served in the US armed forces. Dean in the South? These same people know he’s a fucking draft dodger.

BTW: Deanieweenies always sound so hurt whenever they are called out for being wrong. Why all the self-pity?

And another thing: You'd think after a 1,000 posts you'd remember to put the link in your first post. That way people can tell what the fuck you’re talking about.

Still, mistakes happen. So do errors of fact. When done correctly, they amount to a smear. And that’s the Deanieweenie way. Just like their candidate — very, very small.

[Renew Deal]

7. I found something

This is from the Washington times OpEd page. I don't care for these slimeballs, but this is news. This looks credible and I now generally agree with Hep's assesment. Did he know this? WHat is he thinking?

http://washingtontimes.com/op-ed/20031117-085551-5205r.htm
<snip>

While he is married to the former Teresa Heinz, whose inherited share of the Heinz ketchup fortune totaled about $650 million after the death in 1991 of her husband, then-Sen. John Heinz (Pennsylvania Republican), federal law limits any individual contributions from her to $2,000. The Federal Election Commission reports that federal law further precludes Mrs. Heinz Kerry from giving her husband a campaign loan, which would be considered an unlawful contribution. Moreover, given the strict limits that McCain-Feingold places on independent expenditures, such a gambit by the Kerry clan would never pass the smell test.

Thus, insofar as his wife's assets are concerned, Mr. Kerry appears to be limited to using only 50 percent of those that are jointly owned. Beyond the $10 million home they purchased together in Boston's Beacon Hill neighborhood, Mr. Kerry's financial disclosures have listed jointly owned financial assets totaling less than $2.5 million.

The apparent inability to fully exploit his wife's wealth further explains Mr. Kerry's presumed strategy that would enable him to obliterate New Hampshire's spending cap. However, on Friday night, only hours after Mr. Kerry announced he would not be limited to the state spending caps, WMUR-TV and the University of New Hampshire released their latest poll. It showed Mr. Dean's lead over Mr. Kerry in that state was 22 points (38-16). Even as he changes his strategy, Mr. Kerry's Waterloo suddenly looks closer and closer.

<snip>

http://washingtontimes.com/op-ed/20031117-085551-5205r.htm

[RevolutionStartsNow]

12. He never even submitted an application?

What's up with that? Any explanation?

[Egnever]

16. Lends me to believe he never had any intention of folowing

Campaign finance to begin with. More and more I despise this man.

[eileen_d]

17. Thanks for the objective explanation.

"He must be doing something wrong, because I hate him."

[Egnever]

19. nice twist

But the truth is because he keeps doing things wrong I hate him.


I am sick of his petty attacks I am sick of him saying one thing and doing another. I am sick of his photo ops. I am sick of him doing things like shouting for gun control then going out and shooting pheasants to make it apear he is really pro gun. I am sick of him supporting bushes lies and then railing against them like he wasnt a part of it.

Over and over this man pretends he is something he is not and I despise that in him.

Latest bonehead act

We need a president with foriegn policy experiance not a staff. Here let me show you my staff teaching me foriegn policy.

This guy feigns outrage and then does exactly what he is outraged against more than anyone I have ever seen.

He is a disgusting politician trying to manipulate people into voting for him with fake photo ops and exagerated rage.

Kerry can kiss my ass!

[eileen_d]

21. Well, that explains something

But it doesn't explain why Kerry never filed an application, or whether or not he was eligible for matching funds.

[JI7]

25. you got that right

it certainly explains something. hehe as for the issue of funds. kerry has said he will return any contributions if people request it since those contributions were made with the intention of getting public funds. so he certainly did have the intent to take public funds then.

[Hep]

33. Intent is funny

It can't be proven without evidence. As of the time Kerry opted out of matching funds (he was never going to receive), he had not submitted an application for eligibility with the FEC. Dean had been considering opting out since the second quarter, but sent his application in anyway. It's tangible evidence that Dean was considering matching funds.

Considering the windfall Kerry was expecting from his wife, it's pretty obvious why Kerry never turned in his application. Shame he was wrong about being able to spread all of that tasty ketchup money over his campaign burger.

But the bottom line is that if Kerry DID want to take matching funds, he didn't do as good a job as Lyndon LaRouche of demonstrating it.

[JI7]

43. his returning money

to those who request it is some evidence. since that money was given when he said he would take public funds he said he would return that money to anyone who no longer wishes to contribute based on that.

[Hep]

45. Easy to do

when you know no one is going to ask for it.

I'll make it clear that I don't think denying matching funds is a bad idea. I think Kerry did the right thing. I just think is was WEAK as HELL to wait for someone else to do it first so that you can blame them for your having to do it, especially when you never bothered to apply for matching funds in the first place.

[JI7]

48. opinion

that's you opinion. not fact.

[Hep]

51. What's my opinion?

It was a Kerry supporter who told me Kerry was waiting for someone else to opt out first. That's not agreed upon? What's the story?

[JI7]

56. maybe there was a misunderstanding

i'm talking about the opinion being that kerry NEVER intended to take public money. which is not true.

[Hep]

60. Oh, well

YEah, that's just speculation. But I think it's fair and true to say that Kerry was dedicated to not being dedicated to a position on the issue.

You know, like how Dean flip flopped on the issue. Worse for Dean because he claimed he would stick to his guns. But when your campaign is fueled by individual contributors, you get a little leeway there.

I think only Kucinich explicitly promised to take the funds and not change his mind. Of course, when you raise a paltry $2 mill per quarter, it isn't like you'r egoing to exceed the spending cap anyway.

[TLM]

52. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Campaign burger.

[Hep]

27. READ THE SITE

Words are great. They answer questions like, "Was Kerry eligible?"

Words convey messages like, "In addition to regular quarterly or monthly disclosure reports, presidential candidates who seek matching funds must submit information about matchable contributions to the FEC for review."

And MISSING words also mean something. Missing words like, "Candidate Submissions: Kerry For President".

Why he never filed an application? I have theories. Fact is, he never did. Therefore he was nevre eligible.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

18. No. In fact he will return money to supporters who want it back

because it was collected with the expectation he would recieve federal matching funds.

[Egnever]

20. is that right?

please provide a source for that.

Not that I care. its clearly a move by him to pose again and try to pretend he is doing the right thing while he never had any intention of filing for matching funds to begin with.

What a phony piece of crap this guy is.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

24. and what a phony piece of crap Dean is

hey.... you want to play that game??? BRING IT ON! Kerry will win up and down the "authenticity" card. And the prejudice of your statements are hopefully not prevalent amongst Deaniacs.

[Egnever]

35. Ive seen Kerry's bullshit arguments

And every single one of them is crap.

Kerry builds his case on one sentance snipets or single acts of legislation while ignoring either the context of the snipets or the other legislastion that improved the situation.

Kerry's is a platform of smears and lies against a man who left his state in arguably the best shape of any state in the country.

Yes bring it on!

I am a single dean suporter and my views dont reflect anyones but my own.

My view is Kerry is the biggest pile of stinking crap running for president right now besides of course bush.

He has chosen to take every oportunity to lie about his fellow candidates or twist their positions to the point that they are barely recogniizable. All the while making excuses for his support of shrub in his quest for votes. The man may have had principles at one time. His time in washington has clearly destroyed them.

I find the fact that he had the balls to come out and condem dean for opting out of matching funds when he had never even applied for them himself to be the last straw with me for this man. I now will rage against this fuckling hypocryte every chance I get.

screw kerry and his fake purple hearts. Screw kerry and his lies about throwing his medals over the fence. Screw kerry and his pretense at being Irish. Screw kerry and his failure to address genocide in Vietnam.

Posing piece of crap!

[NewYorkerfromMass]

39. Kerry was a fake war hero

now you're showing the true you.

And the problem with Dean is he would be more "recognizable" if he had a more consistent record.
I have to assume this attack on Kerry as some sort of fake posuer comes from envy for Kerry's long and consistent record as a true liberal Democrat and frustration at Dean's lack thereof.

[Hep]

41. yeah

Kerry's really been getting results.

[Egnever]

42. Hah!

2 days off active duty and three purple hearts for it. I am not impressed. Quite the oposite I am repulsed by the oportunism shown by that.

For the hundredth time Dean has never claimed to be a liberal democrat.
I dont expect his record to be anything but fiscaly responsible while pushing as many socially liberal programs his state could afford.

His record of doing that is excelent!

And it is exactly what I am looking for in my next president.

[JohnKleeb]

46. He got a silver star too you know, real easy to get one of those babies

;) thats like second or third to the congressional medal of honor, not very easy to get trust me.
He was offered those purple hearts wasnt he? You can choose to accept or deny, and I guess he felt obliged to accept, someone else may have done it differently. BTW both Kerry and Dean alike have done good things for the party.

[Egnever]

54. Again not impressed

There is plenty of evidence of him pushing to be transfered out of vietnam. I dont buy for a second that he had no part in having those medals given to him. His whole history is full of instances of him trying to make himself apear more than he is. Why would he be any different in Vietnam.

If he had those medals and he hadnt say, thrown other peoples medals over the fence or pretended he was irish to get votes or posed with his guns or ridden his harley or eaten the fake cheessteaks or ......

Fact is he has a long history of being a fake.

So I dont have any reason to think his war record is any different.

Three purple hearts and out wasnt that the rule? Seems he got what he needed and split to me.

I dont harbor him any ill will for getting out whatsoever and I do apreciate the fact that he was willing to "defend his country" If I ever saw him in person I would thank him for that.

But it doesnt make me excuse his behavior for one second.

At this point i see him as everything I dislike about politicians. Smiling in your face while hiding who they really are. Twisting peoples words or facts to make them apear to be what they are not disgusts me.

I hate the behavior in washington where say for example one side says we are trying to give people $2000 tax cuts implying that everyone will recieve them while the other side says well yea but only if you meet these certain criteria will these actually affect you meanwhile the top 2 percent getsmost of the tax cuts. Clouding the issue instead of making it clearer for political gain. Its politics and it makes me sick.

I want honesty!

This energy bill for instance who the hell knows whats going on with this thing people are all over the map on it. Its good its not good blah blah blah. Whats the freaking truth?

I am tired of grandstanding.

Kerry is all show IMHO

[JohnKleeb]

62. Did I say you had to be impressed but youimplied in my eyes at least

that its all easy to get these medals, its not, I was reading an old article on McGovern of all people and his crew had the kindest words for him, I've read articles about Kerry and the guys who he served with have a lot of respect for him. I dont know how to put this but Kerry has done good things for the country as senator. Pretended he was Irish to gain political votes? Do you really think the people of Masschuetts care, hey and I made the same mistake about me, I thought I was Czech and Serbian, I am not, also MA may have a lot of people of Irish desent but they have a wide range of people there so it doesnt matter. The stuff you mention in your second paragraph really is kinda silly, sorry to be a jerk but do you really care about how he eats a cheesesteak? Sorry I just think you're wrong about Kerry, IWR may disappoint the hell out of me but he has done more good than harm for the country as a senator. I would be honored to have him as my senator honestly.

[Egnever]

65. Aparently we dissagree

I am not convinced that those medals were so hard to get.

Kerry didnt think he was Irish like you did. He knew he wasnt and allowed the misperception to continue in fact encouraged it. Different situation from you entirely.

Do I care how kerry eats a cheesesteak ? Absolutely not and that is esactly the point. He is posing to impress people with something of little or no importance whatsoever. Its a pattern with him. Motorcycles standing in front of war ships shooting pheasants windsurfing .....

All complete crap tha has nothing to do with the job of president.

His record during this administration has sucked on the issues of importance to me. I cant wait to see him vote for the energy bill and medicare.

We will see what happens I guess unless he decides to skip the vote.

[Hep]

36. Dean is phony?

How so WRT matching funds? He was OFFICIALLY DEEMED ELIGIBLE BY THE FEC for matching funds. He let his supporters vote on whether or not he take them.

Kerry simultaneously admonished Dean for opting out WHILE Kerry was opting out. That's about as phony as you can get.

[mobuto]

29. This is bullshit

Kerry was most certainly eligible for federal matching funds. He didn't submit an application to receive them because he decided against it.

I don't understand what your point is, other than that the Dean campaign is willing to do unnecessary paperwork.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

32. the Dean campaign is willing to do unnecessary paperwork

because they have so many Kool-Aid driven followers doing Dean's bidding.

[Hep]

47. LOL!

We'll see if Kerry gets on the ballot in NC. We Kool Aid drinkers are making it happen, and we;re light yuears ahead of Kerry.

Maybe we'll share our petition model with your guys if you ask nicely enough.It's nice to be on the forefront instead of always waiting for someone else to take the lead. Someone should tell Kerry to give LEADING a shot.

[LuminousX]

49. Oh Yeah!

[TLM]

59. See they can not defend Kerry's crass dishonesty...

so they attack Dean supporters for the very act of being inspired.


The facts are clear, Kerry never even applied for matching funds. You have to file that "unnecessary paperwork" each fundraising quarter in order to get those matching funds, and by my count two quarters have already passed by without any filing from Kerry.


He never intended to take matching funds... he was lying and like the fence sitting coward he is, waiting for Dean to opt out so he could not only attack Dean for opting out, but also blame his own opting out on Dean. Yet the records show Kerry never even bothered to apply for the matching funds.

What a scumbag.

[Hep]

40. You're wrong like the rest of the Kerry soldiers

Kerry was most certainly eligible for federal matching funds. He didn't submit an application to receive them because he decided against it.

He may have met the criteria, but he wasn't eligible to receive funds.

I don't understand what your point is, other than that the Dean campaign is willing to do unnecessary paperwork.

It wasn't unnecessary until five months after the paperwork was submitted. But the weak assed excuse making is duly noted. Let's get it right:

In June, Dean had every intention of taking matching funds until he learned that he had a good chance of opting out and raising serious money while remaining true to the grassroots fundraising machine his campaign had built. This is proven by the fact thet he submitted his application. Five months later it turns out that most Dean supporters think he should forego matching funds and take Bush on Head on. It's a smart move for anyone who can raise the money.

Now, for Kerry, if the paperwork was "unnecessary" all along, Kerry should have said right from the start that he wouldn't take matching funds. Except, like an idiot, he criticized Dean WHILE opting out himself! If you want to know who was more sincere in his intent to take matching funds, just read it the FEC site. I figure the more sincere one would be the one to take the necessary steps.

[mobuto]

61. I'm no Kerry soldier

Not by any means. I support another campagin rather, uh, actively.

But that doesn't mean this attack isn't bogus. I'm really not sure where the Deanies are coming from here.

He may have met the criteria, but he wasn't eligible to receive funds.

Well of course not. You have to ask for the money before you can receive it. Kerry decided not to ask for it. But he was perfectly elligible to receive it, just as Governor Ho-Ho was. The fact that he didn't submit an application for a process that he didn't want to go through makes sense to me. He could have applied up until the deadline and chose not to.

[Hep]

69. The Deanies?

I am legion. We are many! You think there's a committee of people behind me telling me what to type? This isn't Dean related, other than Kerry's childish BLAMING of dean for Kerry's decision to opt out.

This is just me wondering about it. As far as attacks go, great, here we go with the definitions again. It's not an attack if it's true. Point to where I'm false, please.



Well of course not. You have to ask for the money before you can receive it. Kerry decided not to ask for it. But he was perfectly elligible to receive it, just as Governor Ho-Ho was.

Not just as. Governor Ho-Ho applied and was accepted. Kerry didn't even apply. Now I know how easy it is to lie or feign ignorance, but come on. You're like a book.

The fact that he didn't submit an application for a process that he didn't want to go through makes sense to me. He could have applied up until the deadline and chose not to.

Yeah, because apparently he needed someone else to take a leadership role. But then this is why I support Dean. He didn't need to wait for anyone else to do it first. He has never allowed other campaigns to dictate decision he makes. Evreyone out there is REACTING to what Dean does and says. No one else is out there taking chances.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

70. He had to be sure no one else jumped ship

and Dean bailed, and Kerry had to follow to stay competitive in campaign spending in Iowa and NH.

[Hep]

73. Nice excuse

for your guy not being able to stand on any principle other than, "i'm agonna do whatever anyone else does".

That's not a leader.

[Hep]

74. And it doesn't explain

why kerry never bothered to apply.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

75. more like: "I'm going to do what I must to remain competitive"

and Dean went back on principle because he decided having more money was more important than any stinking principles.

[Hep]

79. You're hilarious!

more like: "I'm going to do what I must to remain competitive

Yeah, that's it.

and Dean went back on principle because he decided having more money was more important than any stinking principles.

LOL! This is so funny. While Kerry reacts, Dean leads. And Dean gets his money from individuals just like me, so your claim falls on it's face like everyother claim you make.

Dean's making record money while standing up for his principles of a campaign run by PEOPLE while Kerry reacts and hopes he can get as much money as possible from his rich wife's assets.

You need to look more closely at your guy before making such stupid allegations about mine.

[Lady President]

38. Why wasn't he eligible?

I might be a slow on the uptake here, but I can't see why he wouldn't have been eligible for matching funds. Saying he wasn't eligible implies he applied and the FEC denied his application. I read through your link and I didn't see a deadline for applying for eligibility. He said all along that he was going to apply for matching funds as long as the other candidates did. Dean opted out, so he didn't bother applying. I don't understand the problem.

He did consult with a team of attorneys regarding this issue and the use of Teresa Heinz's money, but decided to err on the side of caution rather than formally questioning the FEC.

[Hep]

44. He wasn't eligible because he didn't apply

I don't doubt that he met the criteria, but if you intend to take matching funds why would you wait? Because you want to see if evreyone else does? Well, Dean applied and STILL opted out, and did BOTH before anyone else, so Kerry's tactic looks all the weaker. But Kerry's waiting for someone else to take the lead on the issue smacks of trepidation and weak mindedness. Kerry should grow a pair.

The deadline as per my understanding is the end of the fourth quarter, but that's second hand information.

[Lady President]

50. Not true

Eligibility is not based on applying. That would be saying that I wasn't eligible for the military because I didn't enlist. If I meet the age and health requirements, then I'm eligible. Or, that every person who doesn't apply to college is ineligible, even if they have the academic qualifications.

Kerry would wait to save the time, energy, and money that it takes to apply. I would argue Dean applied because at the time he didn't realize how much money would be contributed to him. He said early in the campaign he planned to opt-in. He changed his mind when he received more money than expected.

Kerry said all along he was going to allow the rest of the candidates determine whether matching funds would be used because he doesn't believe that the person with the most money always deserves to win. He kept his word.

I won't try to convince you to like Kerry's personality, but this isn't the best argument against him.

[Hep]

55. Split all the hairs you want. You must work for the FEC.

Eligibility is not based on applying. That would be saying that I wasn't eligible for the military because I didn't enlist. If I meet the age and health requirements, then I'm eligible. Or, that every person who doesn't apply to college is ineligible, even if they have the academic qualifications.

There's no evidence that Kerry had any intention of taking matching funds. And the way the FEC looks at it, only three people are ELIGIBLE for matching funds, Dean (opted out), LaRouche (declared eligible in OCtober), and Lieberman (declared eligible this week).

http://www.fec.gov/press/20031114matching.html

So whatever you need to do to convince yourself that your guy is on the up and up is fine. You don't care about how I think that looks anyway.

Kerry would wait to save the time, energy, and money that it takes to apply. I would argue Dean applied because at the time he didn't realize how much money would be contributed to him. He said early in the campaign he planned to opt-in. He changed his mind when he received more money than expected.

Exactly. But give me a break. If you track campaign contributions AT ALL, then filing th paperwork is incredible simple. Did you even look at the form?

Kerry said all along he was going to allow the rest of the candidates determine whether matching funds would be used because he doesn't believe that the person with the most money always deserves to win. He kept his word.

Yeah, he kept his word that he would wait for someone else to stick his neck out. Not very brave for a vet.

I won't try to convince you to like Kerry's personality, but this isn't the best argument against him.

I wouldn't even be bringing this up if Kerry hadn't BLAMED Dean for his not taking the funds. That's just cowardly.

[Melinda]

57. His eligibility wasn't/hasn't been determined

So technically, you are correct. One's eligibility for any program must first be determined through application. Maybe I can't afford to feed my family, but that doesn't automatically make me and mine eligible for food stamps.

However there isn't a deadline for application. From http://www.fec.gov/press/bkgnd/fund.html :

THE PROCESS (very generally)
Candidates may apply for eligibility any time in 2003 or 2004. No monies will be paid out until January 2, 2004. All monies raised in 2003 or 2004 are potentially matchable. Campaigns may submit for funds once per month. (Twice monthly submissions and letter requests used to be the rule, but this was changed because of the shortfall potential.) With a shortfall, all eligible candidates will get a percentage of the total amount to which they are entitled. The percentage will be determined by supply and demand.

Once the Commission determines that a candidate has met the eligibility criteria, the candidate may submit evidence of contributions from individuals for matching. The Commission’s audit staff reviews these submissions to determine if the requests meet the standards for matchability. The maximum amount of matching funds a candidate may receive is limited to 50 percent of the base spending limit. In 2000, presidential primary candidates who accepted public funding had a maximum entitlement of $16,890,000 (50 percent of $33,780,000.) The estimated maximum for 2004 is $18,600,000.