It seems that most Dean supporters like Clark, but not vise versa, Why?

[sleipnir]

After months of reading posts, polls, questions, I've come to the conclusion that Dean supporters would vote for Clark and support Clark, but most Clark people are very anti-Dean. Just an observation, this is just a broad generalization, but from my vantage point it's quite true. It's like there's a "hatred" of Dean coming from Clark supporters. Dean people "dislike" Clark, but certainly they are not on the same level of anamosity. Let me state that I'm neither really a Clark or Dean person, more in the Kucinich camp.

Why is it that the "hatred" seems to only go one way? I'm really not sure. Before you flame me, just realize I know there are Dean people who hate Clark and spew it out on this site quite often, it's just that there seems to be a predominance of "anti-Dean" coming from the Clark camp here on DU.

[kiahzero]

1. Perhaps I'm biased

but I really think that's just a perception you're getting because there are, if I recall correctly, three or four Clarkies who are very strongly anti-Dean. They are countered by roughly the same number of Deanies who are anti-Clark.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

7. Kiahzero's Perception Is Mine as Well

I would also note that the amount of dislike among each camp's supporters for the other camp's candidate appears to be directly proportional to how well the other candidate is doing at the moment. Generally speaking, anyway.

DTH

[Padraig18]

9. I agree.

I think except for a few rabidly anti-Dean Clark supporters, most Clark supporters could support Dean, and vice versa. Unfortunately, it seems that the rabid ones are the ones who post the most.

[MIMStigator]

73. Most Clark supporters think Dean can't win

but most Dean supporters think Clark can win.

so to Clark supporters Dean = another Bush 4 years but to Dean supporters Clark translates into a candidate they don't like as much as their own but doesn't translate to another 4 years of Bush.

[JohnKleeb]

2. It goes vice versa trust me

I am a Kucinich person for sure though like you. :shrug: maybe its just a scratch fight. I dont know.

[returnable]

3. "A broad generalization" and then some...

Hang around/read more. You'll see it cuts both ways.

[vi5]

4. Is this the semi-daily...

candidate supporter=martydom post?

Honestly I think there's enough blame to go around. There are enough Dean supporters who yap about how he's the only one they would vote for and enough Clark supporters who do the same.

Really, sometimes the level of discourse on this place is no better than the "Motley Crue is so much better than Def Leppard duuuuuuude" arguments I used to overhear in high school.

[kiahzero]

10. The Slashdot Equivalent:

A: Emacs rules!

B: No, vi rules!

A: Linux rules!

B: No, BSD rules!

C: No, Windows rules!

A & B: SINNER!

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

35. But the Crue rules! (nt)

[Stuckinthebush]

5. I think it is because Dean is the front runner

Dean backers have the luxury of heaping praise on a candidate that is far behind Dean in NH and Iowa, whereas Clark backers don't have that luxury. I'd guess that if the situation reverses, you will see the opposite reaction.

[loyalsister]

31. Agree

When asked why the RW hated him so much, Bill Clinton replied "because I won."
It's a bitter pill to swallow sometimes. The common belief was that Clark was going to break out anmd shake things up. But, he hasn't made nearly as large of an impact as expected. Kerry also was expected to do better. When people get emotionally involved in campaigns, frustration can reach a boiling point. It appears that supporters from both camps are extremely angry with the state of affairs. Dean is the natural direction to which they would direct that frustration.

[slinkerwink]

36. I concur as well.....

[aquart]

6. Vote for Clark in the primaries, no. Or do you mean

that if Clark were the nominee we would vote for him? I will vote for the Democratic candidate no matter who.

Are you then saying that Clark supporters will NOT vote for the Democratic nominee no matter who? In that case, who will they vote for, in which case, who are they REALLY?

Perhaps I'm not clear in my mind about what you are saying because what you are saying makes no real sense?

[sleipnir]

12. Here's what I'm saying

If Clark dropped out, most of his supporters would NOT go to Dean, they'd find one of the other candidates, Kerry, Gephardt, etc.

But if Dean was no longer a choice, I feel fairly certain, most Deanites would move into Clark's campaign.

Come time for the General election, I'm sure they'll patch up most of the differences.

[FrenchieCat]

74. of course, I agree...

Those who support Clark support him because of what he brings to the table to beat Bush. Dean doesn't bring those same things to the table, so Clark supporters would not automatically go Dean. Dean's lack of foreign policy experience and his tax platform makes him an automatic "NO GO" IMO.

Before Clark I was for Kerry for the same reason that I am for Clark....Foreign policy experience during the time of 9/11 terror wars is crucial to bring down Bushco....as 9/11 Terror war was his only saving grace(not to me, but to many,e.g. 90% approval rate, OK?).....Bush would never have been so popular with the voting masses otherwise. Kerry lacks charisma though...and is seen as too liberal for many. Clark has the charisma and although he's as liberal as most of them, he is perceived as moderate due to his military image....Which is perfect for the General Election.

[fishnfla]

8. what the ?

what?,ever!

[Forkboy]

11. I diont think it's just Clark supporters

the people who dislike Dean REALLY dislike Dean.

[sleipnir]

16. Ok, maybe it's just a coincidence that most of them support Clark.

I could understand that, I guess Dean is one of those "love-em or hate-em" candidates. Clark seems much more affable, perhaps that's why he doesn't draw that much flack from Dean supporters.

[Forkboy]

21. If I could name names

I'd bet there was just as many Kerry supporters who hate Dean as Clark supporters.

[democratreformed]

32. What's really funny (as in odd or notable)

to me is that it was just a week or so ago that all I read was spewing back and forth between Dean and Kerry supporters.

I think some people just cannot handle competition. (Yes, some Clark supporters are included int that as well.)

Also, on a personal note, I would like to say that, at first, I was rabidly anti-Dean strictly because he jumped right on my candidate first thing and perpetuated the myth that "he was a Republican until 25 days ago." I was very angry that he would use lies to give to support to misconceptions. That lie continues to hurt to this day. Just last week, I had to explain yet again that he was NEVER a Republican.

After having conversations with some of the more sane Dean supporters via this forum, I began to adopt a more favorable attitude toward this candidate and can now even say that I would be willing to work for his election if he should win the nomination.

Of course, I have to also admit that this would be AFTER Dean had conclusively won the nomination. And, I would feel very much that I had lost out on something great. Because, I honestly do feel very strongly that Wesley Clark is THE BEST candidate at this time.

[PDittie]

13. I went to Dean's rally in Houston this week

and I am a Clarkie.

Those two are the best we have to defeat the BFEE.

I'm willing to let them shake it out for the title.

(I don't get the hate, but I'm not in here a lot...)

[Sagan]

14. I think a lot of Deanies like perceived outsiders.

I'm an ABB man, but I like Dean and Clark both.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

40. I like both and used to flip-flop between them.

Now I'm favoring Clark. It could change though. I also like Kerry, Gep., Edwards, Kucinich and Sharpton. Don't like Lieberman...

[Scott Lee]

15. I think you see more shit-talk against Dean from Kerry/Gep-ers

That's been my perception. At the heart of it, I would agree that there is an underlying comfortability with Clark among many of us Dean supporters. I will repeat that Clark has so far been a class act and when I saw him filet that stupid bastard on Faux Snooze I became more of a fan than ever.

If Clark were to get the nomination, I could easily vote for him.

[JohnKleeb]

17. Gepers? theres only a few here

Like 5-10 at the most.

[slinkerwink]

24. I think there's two

;-)

[JohnKleeb]

38. Well I can count the amount on my hand

Theres at least 2 I know. They arent big Dean fans but they arent bashing him at every turn.

[Scott Lee]

58. True - but since they bend over backwards to slime Dean...

with multiple posts on any thread that praises Dean, they are attempting to give the impression of being more numerous than they are. Or something like that.

[Racenut20]

18. I think it is because

Dean people think Clark can win. But Clark people do not think Dean can win.

[chaska]

54. Bingo!

[Carolina]

55. you hit the nail on the head

Remember the 1976 Republican Convention. It was a rather tight race between Ford and Reagan. Ford won the nomination but in the end, many people thought the party had nominated the wrong man. And, indeed, Ford went down in defeat.

I am a Clark person because I firmly believe he can win. He attracts disaffected repugs and military folks. He can pull some red states to our side forcing Bush to do battle in areas that he otherwise would take for granted. And most important of all, he's untouchable on military/foreign affairs. He walks the talk.

Dean tapped into my anti-war anger and I like him. But he is the former governor of a small New England state with a fairly homogeneous population numbering less than that of most major metropolitan areas in the US. Add to that no military or foreign policy experience and I fear we'll get creamed.

Clark is an outsider, a non-politician (which in the eyes of many is a good thing) with leadership experience, crossover appeal and an impeccable resume. Frankly, I like a Clark-Dean ticket: south/north, foreign-military/domestic, both strongly, vocally anti-Bush. Above all I'm ABB and I don't want to be crying the morning after the election. I think the two of them are the best but that Clark needs to be at the top of the ticket.

[w4rma]

57. Nope. That's not the reason, Racenut20. I am a Dean supporter

who really likes Gen. Clark. But I don't think Clark can win at the top of the ticket. He's not experienced enough at campaigning, IMHO.

However, I want to see Clark on the ticket as Vice President: Dean / Clark.

[Hep]

19. Everyone hates the front runner

:shrug:

[ajacobson]

20. A question of degree

IMHO a number of Clark supporters have criticized Dean, primarily on his past policy as Governor or on current policy statements. However there are a number of Dean supporters who ferociously attack Clark with every opportunity to do so, call him a war criminal, etc. That's what poisons the dialogue. I don't think there is any confusion about which people I am referring to. As far as I can tell, no Dean supporters have criticized or disclaimed these people for their over the top behavior so I have to conclude that it is condoned.

[kiahzero]

25. Well

There is one Clark supporter who rather *strongly* dislikes Dean; I'm also pretty sure that at least one of the worst offenders of "poisoning the dialogue" is a Kucitizen. So I think it's fair to lay the blame on supporters of all the candidates.

Hell, I've been known to be a little... strongly-worded, from time to time.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

37. I am a Dean supporter

and I don't condone or support that shit AT ALL.

[ajacobson]

67. Good

Thank you.

:thumbsup:

[mmonk]

22. I've always said

Dean was my second choice. Was my first until about 3 weeks before Clark annouced his acceptance of the draft movement. No hatred here.

[HootieMcBoob]

23. I'm a Clark supporter and I like Dean

there -- I've said it

[mikehiggins]

26. Just a few intensely emotional types

I've only been on here for a couple of weeks but I think the numbers of people with active dislike for Dean OR Clark are really very small.

There are indeed a number of people who buy into the "Dean can't win" argument and they tend to be harsh with the Doctor but there are also a faction that simply cannot accept Clark because he was in the military, or he voted for Nixon, or whatever.

So it seems to me the anti-Dean faction is based entirely on a political judgment rather than a judgment of Dean as a person. The anti-Clark people, on the other hand, seemed less concerned with the political question at hand and more with the question of supporting a baby-eating mass murderer.

Of course, to us Clarkies, hearing our guy described that way (even figuratively) does cause some harsh feelings, as you might well understand.

So, most Deanites would support Clark as nominee, but not all.

All Clarkistas would support Dean as nominee, but some would feel doomed from the start.

[Tyler Durden]

29. What HE said!

It gets more than a little discouraging when a supporter of another member of your party refers to your candidate as:

"Mass-murderer"
"Warmonger"
"DNC Stooge"
"Republican"

If this would STOP, you would see a lot less rancor.

[knight_of_the_star]

49. Exactly!

I very rarely see Clarkistas starting up flame-bait threads of Dean, aside from ones that use EVENTS and QUOTES that are TRUE to basically question if Dean can win or not. There are a few Deanies (not naming names, they know who they are) who are ALWAYS trying to find some way of saying that Clark is an evil monster that is really a PNAC plant and a mass murderer who wants to keep the war going, etc. and seeing that kind of BS posted really makes my blood boil, especially since we don't do that to Dean.

[Tyler Durden]

27. Where on EARTH do you get THAT from?

I supported Dean BEFORE Clark and even sent him money.

I STILL would support Dean if Clark were not there.

I really don't get what you're saying. What I have seen is "I won't support anyone but Dean," "Clark did this and that" (posted by an ardent Dean supporter). The absolute WORST I have said about Dean is "I smell 1972" and let me tell you something: I LOVED George McGovern.

I don't know what you've been reading, but you could not swing a dead cat without smacking into at least 4 negative Clark threads to 1 against Dean.

[Lefta Dissenter]

28. I wouldn't say I'm 'anti-Dean' or 'hate Dean'

but he just doesn't do anything for me A lot of his policies are good, but I'm more closely aligned with Clark's ideas. And I totally respect Clark; the way he takes the high road, he doesn't attack the other Dem candidates, he focuses on bush. He is incredibly intelligent, and has 'presence.' He thinks through what he says, and is willing to stand up for what he believes, even if he knows it isn't necessarily the most popular view. I just don't see Dean in that same light.

One example of something bothered me about Dean was at the Rock the Vote debate. When the 'have you smoked pot' question arose, Dean first cracked, "We'll all keep our hands down for this one." But then as the other candidates answered, and he saw that the ones who said that they had smoked pot were receiving applause, he then was willing to declare that, indeed, he had smoked it, as well. That makes me feel like he's a bit of a weenie.

I also was disappointed with how Dean handled the Conf. flag issue. I KNOW he is not a racist (or at least I assume he's not), but he didn't have the wisdom or compassion to realize that he had screwed up and offended people. It took him several days to sort of eek out a half-assed apology. Everyone makes mistakes (well, except bush, I'm sure), but stand up and admit to them.

I also think that Clark's international experience, dealing with foreign leaders and NATO, working within a coalition, would help to create a strong presidency, particularly at this time in our lives, when relationships all over the world have been trashed and need to be rebuilt. Dean just doesn't have that experience.

Now that I've spent all of this time writing a reply, I realize that I don't even agree with your premise! :) I, of course, am totally unbiased, you can tell by my username. But I have really felt that the Clark supporters (for the most part) tend to take the high road, doing their best to follow the path that Clark, himself, would lay out. I think that a lot of the Dean supporters don't slam Clark much, because they see him as a real, viable option to Dean, so they don't object to the idea of his possibly winning the nomination.

In one of the earlier polls, the numbers for Clark and Dean were fairly close (as usual), but the strength of support for Clark was much greater. Clark's supporters were more committed to him, for the most part, than Dean's were to him. Because he's someone that so many of us feel we can really look up to and admire, we might be a bit more defensive of him, and less likely to be willing to express support for someone else who just doesn't seem to stack up, in our eyes.

Now, there are the few absolute snot-faced Dean supporters who jump into any discussion, intending to slam Clark, regardless of whether it's even relevent to the conversation. But I am trying not to judge Dean by those few people, since I have certainly seen enough Dean supporters who are considerate and thoughtful, so I realize that the snots are not the typical Dean supporter. And I would guess that there must be some snotty Clark supporters, as well, but I honestlycan't say that I've seen much of that! Look how nice I am, after all! :)

Now, all of that said, I would go to the ends of the earth to support Dean if he is the one who receives the nomination. I don't think he's a bad person, I just don't think that he's the right one for the job.

There, that's my first novel for the day.

Now back out to my garden. It's our last day in the 50's until... well, until who knows when...

[democratreformed]

44. I don't think he's a bad person, I just don't think that he's the right on

These are my sentiments exactly.

[moz4prez]

30. Dean did make some less than flattering (and false) remarks about Clark

the first few weeks of his campaign, such as, you know, "Clark was a republican until 25 days ago" . . . around the point at which Clark had surged ahead in the national polls and was enjoying non-stop coverage . . . now, we all know Clark's decisive lead fizzled with his voice, but now he's regained some of that initial traction . . . even still, through out the peaks and troughs of Clark's candidacy I think he's always maintained a certain civility towards his colleagues in the race, and the same can't be said for Dean — well, Dean's been polite enough I suppose but he hasn't exactly helped dispel rumors of Clark's *fraudulent* party loyalty . . . anyway, I like Dean and certainly don't doubt his sincerity or the intentions/intelligence of his suppporters. (yes, I know, I flatter you but don't let it get to your heads =\) The unfortunate truth is that any military leader could be pegged as a war criminal, and generals' duties arent limited to the giving and taking of orders . . . my knowledge of the military hierarchy is admittedly limited, but as you go up the chain of command it's reasonable to assume that the assoc. tasks are more deeply collaborative, and complicated.

sorry if this was incoherent or offensive.

[Mattforclark]

33. Both of them are just fine

I personally like Clark more, but that doesn't mean I dislike Dean.

It is just some of the supporters of various (probably all) candidates can get a bit uncivil. That's nothing new in politics.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

34. It's hard for me to keep track

I'm not really sure what the Deanbash-to-Clarkbash ratio is, all I know is I've seen enough of it from both sides that it makes me a little ill. We have no candidates running who are even a fraction as bad as the more strident posts make them out to be.

I'm a Dean supporter, but there are certainly things about him that I don't like, and I could say the same for any other candidate. I think that's true of most of the people here. Most of us are, I believe, smart enough and pragmatic enough to know that there will never be a candidate who just bats 1000 on every issue.

However, there are certainly idealogues in our midst, and I think that's where some of the more outrageous shit comes from. I think if it seems like there's a lot of it going around, that's more because the really hateful posts simply make more of an impact than the considered ones. The people posting the former would do well to remember that such posts alienate people and make your candidate and his or her supporters look extremely unappealing.

I am the first to concede that there are plenty of people supporting my candidate who simply need to calm down, shut the fuck up, and show a little class. It goes a long way, particularly in the event that our guy becomes the nominee --- having a sizeable portion of the Democratic party who hates the nominee's guts is not going to bode well for the future.

[MoonRiver]

39. I have just the opposite impression.

If you'll look at all my posts, I have NEVER said one thing against Dean, or any other Dem candidate except LIEberman. I'm only one person, but my observation is that Clarkies are generally just defending our guy against the attack dog Deanies.

[knight_of_the_star]

51. I know that I go the same way

The only places I've been REALLY critical of Dean is when his attack dogs decide to try to smear Clark and I hit back. from what I've noticed, there have been more threads by Deanies attacking Clark than Clarkies attacking Dean by a noticeable and considerable margin.

What is also interesting is how the worst perpetrators of Clark bashing aren't saying a thing in this thread. I wonder why?

[Nlighten1]

41. Dean/Clark or Clark/Dean is my prefered ticket

Any way the wind blows...doesn't really matter...to me.

[Kahuna]

42. Clark's personality is decidely better than Dean's...

Just MHO.

[Tom Rinaldo]

43. I would actively support Dean

I would not just vote for him but campaign also. I just prefer Clark. The closest I have come to being critical of Dean is a post or two about thinking Dean should honor the public financing caps during the Democratic primaries, to honor the spirit if not the letter of public funding of election campaigns, saving his extra dough to use against Bush since he used Bush as his excuse to opt out in the first place.

First off I really do like Clark, but I also feel he is the Democrat who can beat Bush. Clark can be aggressive when need be, endearing at times, and statesmen like when the circumstances merrit. I think the general public would be more likely to embrace Clark than Dean. Still, I honor the tenacity Dean has shown to attack the currrent Administration early and often. Some Dean supporters on the other hand have driven me crazy, I suppose some Dean supporters feel the same way about Clark backers, but many of Dean's people seem to have picked up on Dean's "take no prisoners" approach to this campaign while many Clark Supporters started out using Clark's "Keep your fire reserved for Bush" as their model.

[AmericanDem]

45. I'm not anti Dean

but i see things like this. Dean would love to have Clark on board because of his great military resume etc. Clark using Dean as VP i think would be more of a team for the Democrats to rally around ( because of Deans popularity among many ).

On a the other hand I feel the wiser choice for Clark would be to select someone that has alot of inside Washington know how. I think Gephardt would make a great VP with Clark. I also think Gov. Richardson would be great. jus my $.02

[poskonig]

46. I believe you're right about Clark.

Clark at the top of the ticket clearly has a different set of needs than Dean.

[_NorCal_D_]

47. I'll admit

I am very 'anti-Dean'. He doesn’t inspire me in the slightest.

Most importantly, he is a divider, not a uniter.

[gulliver]

48. Do a poll on it.

I doubt it is true. I strongly support Clark but like Dean just fine thanks. I'll bet there are practially no Clark supporters who "hate" Dean.

Do a poll. Who:

Supports Clark and likes Dean
Supports Clark and does not like Dean

And another poll
vice versa

[knight_of_the_star]

50. I don't hate Dean

I just REALLY don't like some of his supporters. And I'm sure they are all too willing to reciprocate the sentiment.

[sleipnir]

53. Maybe that's it, it's a personal objection to the other supporters

Interesting, could all the spewed and visable "hatred" on this site be more of a personal attack at the supporters? Hummm, that's a interesting theory

[QC]

52. Go read the first post in the "Clark......First in Virginia" thread.

That sort of thing might explain there is some resentment.

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[_NorCal_D_]

64. I don't know

if Kucinich supporters are 'the true Clark haters'. It's been my experience that Kucinich supporters are some of the nicest on DU.

Their objectivity and fairness is primarily why Kucinich is my #2 choice. B-)

[chaska]

69. Sorry about that.

I didn't mean to tar all DK supporters. There are a couple of individuals who are guilty.

[Jackhammer Jesus]

59. It's an issue between zealous supporters, not the candidates themselves.

There are few Deanies who intensely dislike Clark, and just as few Clarkies with the same feelings toward Dean. There are only a small number of supporters for each candidate who would outright refuse to vote Democrat if the opposing candidate won the nomination, I think.

The bottom line is that the primary race has come down to Clark vs. Dean as far as most DUers are concerned, IMO. So when there's a post about something Clark says, a Deanie will pop in and share Dean's two cents on the issue - and vice versa. Sometimes supporters will pop in to a thread for wholly unrelated bashing, and thus a flame war is born, creating more animosity between the supporters.

Deanies and Clarkies are both equally responsible, as I see it.

[_NorCal_D_]

66. You're right

There is no innocent party in this case.

[GOPBasher]

60. I'm a Clark supporter and I like Dean

In fact, I'm hoping for a Clark/Dean ticket.

[criticalwords]

62. It's simple...

...VERY...FEW...DEMOCRATIC...VOTERS...LIKE...DEAN...OTHER...THAN...HIS...SUPPORTERS...AND...THAT...WOULD...BE...THE...SAME...IN...A...GENERAL...ELECTION...AND...IT...WOULD...LEAD...TO...A...MASS...EXODUS...OF...PEOPLE...FROM...THE...DEMOCRATIC...PARTY...IF...DEAN...WERE...THE...NOMINE!!!

Duh!!!

Very few people who do not directly support Dean can stomach the thought of him being the nominee!

Duh!!!

Why do Dean's supporters like Clark or Edwards or Graham? Because they realize the liability of their candidate (Dean) and they feel like they can stick Clark, Edwards, or Graham with him and hope that that makes him more appealing nationally and in the south.

IT WON'T!

Dean wouldn't have a chance, at all, in a national race. His look alone would turn away votes. And God forbid that he open his mouth and stick his foot in it...

[w4rma]

65. Dean's negatives poll consistently among the lowest.

if Dean were controversial his negatives would be at least as high as other candidates. They are the lowest.

What is up with Dean's unfavorables?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=60362

[sleipnir]

75. I strongly disagree

[xultar]

68. I think it has more to with the Supporters I came here

Supporting Clark and Dean as my number 2. But Kucinich has moved to my number 2 then Dean.

I'm speaking truthfully. I've been nothing but nice and last night was the LAST straw. Fine if you wanna be ugly then be ugly to the ones who were ugly with you first. But don't get ugly with people who have tride their hardest to refrain from bashing.

That is why I'm letting you know now. Because if you truly support Dean and you want him to win you need to know how you look from someone elses eyes.

[neuvocat]

70. What???

You know I've put up posts here praising Dean. I've mentioned that Dean's anger is more than justified. He's also done much to move the democratic base as a whole away from a shift to the right.

I've also mentioned that IF he were to lose the primary that it should have nothing to do with the statements he made about the confederate flag.

I've also mentioned that Dean would likely win (although I'm pleasantly surprised that Clark's campaign has been doing so well this week).

I will say this again and again: who you choose to vote for is a personal decision. To attack a candidate is to attack the people who support that person. I sure as hell haven't seen too much bashing on Dean this week. If you got links from sat-today, please post them to show what you're talking about.

[xultar]

71. Busting a Myth...I did a search and no Clarkies called Dean supporters

Moonies or kool-aid drinkers.
There are 3 threads where it was mentioned and in all 3 it was brought up by Deanies that they heard they were being called that. Moonies came from the Washington Post, Cultist came from the Media.

[NashVegas]

72. Except for the Initial Rush, Correct

When Clark first announced, a horde of campaigners went very negative on Dean and were quite obnoxious. I killfiled most of them, and since then I see plenty of Clark supporters who don't have problems with Dean, for the most part.

[JNelson6563]

78. My dear, you are missing so much

I personally have been called a simpleton, brainwashed, a cultist and any number of things. Most of this sort of behavior has come from Kerry supporters but I have certainly recieved plenty of abuse from Clarkies.

Also, in my real life political participation, so far it is only Clarkies who have played dirty and blatantly broken well stated rules. Put it this way, the most valuable info from our local party now is stashed in a private home under lock and key. A first. Only had to be implemented once Clarkies appeared on the scene.

Make of it what you will.

Julie

[incapsulated]

76. Huh?

I think that the most attacks on Clark come from a few very vocal Dean supporters, and they are pretty nasty.

There are also two or three Clarkies who pile on Dean, but this idea that Clarkies are running around bashing Dean, I don't know where you are getting that from.

[Justice]

77. Thanks

For how you phrased this question (and for asking it).

This has been the best discussion yet on the tension (or worse) that comes up on the board regarding Dean and Clark. I am so pleased that people responded with candor.

Originally, I thought Kerry was the guy to beat (although I was not myself sure he was the one). When Kerry faltered and Dean took off, I watched Dean. My reaction to Dean was two fold - one, I just don't warm up to him personally, but respect that others are very impressed by him. More importantly, I didn't see in him the distinctions from Bush on paper that could challenge Bush. I realized Dean is not Bush -- but on paper he is has similiarities - governor, wealthy background, little foreign policy experience etc.

So I was one that participated in the draft movement for Clark and hoped Clark would run, as I both liked Clark as a person and believed he had the profile to best challenge Bush.

I am not anti-Dean. I really dislike use of the term anti-Dean. I am pro-Clark. If Dean wins the nomination, I will support him.

I have responded to posts that malign Clark -- posts that are viciousness and just plain ugly. I have also asked posters - tell me how Dean can beat Bush (because I would like to know how people get there and see that).

[eileen_d]

79. Nah.

[CWebster]

80. Clark's forces are like shock troops

They are threatened by Dean and his strength and use bullying tactics, similar to that of Repugs, to attack him.

I was willing to give Clark the benefit of the doubt, and even considered a Dean-Clark combo as the most viable,but the more I hear, the less I trust him.

As a progressive Democrat in opposition to Bush and his pro corporate policies and military grandstanding, whose drum-beating a war frenzy made the world less protected from terrorism, there is no-way I will back a pro-corporate, DLC backed General with a newly-minted D next to his name.

[AmericanDem]

83. This comment is complete nonsense

I want you to post 1 example of this statement you make. To rebut these allegations is to give them merit.

bullying tactics, pro corporation, millitary grandstanding, drum beating,? Your comments are no different then Bush and repub tactics.

:puke:

[bitchkitty]

81. I don't blame Clark for

the behavior of some of his supporters, but they should realize that if they're representing a candidate, that people will draw opinions about that candidate from what they say and do.

The reason some of them are so awful is because they are eaten up with jealousy. Dean's going to win, and they know it, and they just can't stand it.

[Nazgul35]

82. It doesn't matter...

in the real world...

Oh sure, here on DU we have an over inflated sense of ourselves (how's that for broad brush strokes...) but how many of the 30,000+ DUers are even aware of the ongoing slam fest between some of the more immature members of our forum?

Out in the real world, with 2/3rds of the Dems not even aware of what's going on...they have no concept of what's being said about who...in fact, those who are foolish enough to engage in this name calling nonsense are going to find that they will paint the eventual Dem candidate with all the mud slinging used against all the candidates, because most voters won't know the circumstances in which they came to be or care!!!

Part of the attacks on Dean are simply because he's the front runner....as the front runner, he's attacked by the entire field, which frays nerves and makes Dean supporters short tempered, which causes them to be overly sensitive and at times cranky....so they post things which, after they hit the done button they wish they could take back than.....

There is no solution, this is what happens in campaigns, supporters go negative on another candidate, the other candidate's supporters claims it's a slam or hit piece...they react and we'll all rolling in the mud...except we're not...becuase the vast majority of humanity doesn't give two flying f*cks about what DUers think about the candidates.....

I come here to get news about the rest of the world, occasionally I am sucked into the candidate's debate but I prefer to write letters, canvass, send cash, register voters...you know....do stuff in the real world that actually matters!

love you all!!! Solidarity brothers and sisters!!!