Forget The McGovern, Mondale, Dukakis Analogies... Think 1968 !!!

[WillyT]

Think Humphrey\Nixon 1968!

I think that this is gonna be one ugly year. Lots more protests, many turning violent. Rioting in the streets, again. Rioting at the conventions, again. Deaths??? Who knows...

I wonder which way the so-called 'Silent Majority' will lean this time around. Will they curl up in a fetal position and vote for the 'safety' of the * Police State? Or will they realize that it will only get much, much worse with another 4 years of the Facist Right in charge???

:shrug:

[mlawson]

1. One HUGE difference:

People are not even close to being as informed as we were back in 1968. There were three TV networks on then, if you could even pull in three, and at 6:30 Eastern if you watched TV, you saw the NEWS. Not mindless bullshit reality shows, sitcom reruns, or infomercials.

I was in college back then. ANYone on campus who did NOT know all about the current issues, politics, and the War was considered to be in some condition resembling "marginal", and were virtual social outcasts. It's not the same nowadays.

[WillyT]

4. I Agree... And Although The Internet Is Important...

It doesn't reach the same number of Americans as the three networks did back then.

But... That's part of the problem. Because the aggrieved don't get any coverage, unless they turn out in massive numbers and the media thinks that there is the possibility of violence, they fulfill the self-fulfilling prophecy by turning out in massive numbers, and eventually, turning violent.

There are a lot of pissed off AFL-CIO members in Miami today, and a seriously injured CBS reporter. I don't believe that they are gonna focus ALL of their anger on the 'anarchists'. Not after the behavior of the cops down there today.

:shrug:

[seventhson]

2. No - Think RFK/MLK/Sirhan Sirhan and Dean

Dean MUST protect himself.

Remember RFK was murdered when it became clear he was going to win the primaries by the same BFEE which killed JFK. MLK, Wellstone and probably Carnahan.

RFK never made it THROUGH the primaries.

As the PEACE candidate, he was sure to win. Humphrey was a moderate fool dem.

The BEST analogy to 1968 is NOT Humphrey.

It is Bobby.

(By the way I took my 14 year old daughter to Bobby and JFK's graves a few weeks ago to pay my respects for the fortieth anniversary of his political assassination)

God how I wish it had never happened.

I believe the whole world would be at peace now and fed and housed and medically cared for.


1968 politically was the year of the second greatest political murder of the century. Let us hope that is not OUR fate.

Stay Smart Howard.

[AntiCoup2K4]

5. Slight correction, 1968 was the year of the second AND third ......

political murders of the century.

April 4 & June 6 :grr:

The very same people behind both - and the one 4.5 years earlier.

[Jackson Daley]

6. With all due respect, I don't think there's much of a case to be made

that Carnahan was murdered. His son was flying the plane, and it was a really crappy night out weather-wise. If I'm not mistaken, the attitude indicator and/or the vacuum system that supported it malfunctioned. As I understand it, it would be next to impossible to monkey with the system and be certain its malfunction would coincide with the kind of weather we had that night.

I'm no fan of Ashcroft's, trust me. I'm just not aware of any evidence that the tragic death of Carnahan and the others on the plane was caused by any sort of foul play.

[LSparkle]

9. You are so right

All the commemorations of JFK's assassination have brought this all back to me -- God how I wish we could have him, RFK, MLK et al. back and do the decade over again.

[ozone_man]

15. I remember.

Play it safe Dean, and don't take on a DLC VP, because accidents can happen.

[knight_of_the_star]

23. And Wesley too

Clark is also a big threat against Bush simply because he opposed the war and has the fruit salad to back himself up with. Those two men are probably on the top of Bush's hit list at the moment.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

3. My mother has been saying this from the beginning

I was born in 1969 so I can't really comment, but she believes strongly that McGovern comparisons to Dean are dubious because he would be running against Johnson, not Nixon.

It's still hard for me to believe Johnson (as well as George Wallace) were Democrats, considering the popular conception of Dems these days.

[JohnKleeb]

7. Johnson may have been a hawk but he was one of ours

Good on civil rights and gotta love that war on poverty. However I can see why people may dislike him, if it wasnt for Nam, LBJ would be in the same league as FDR IMO. Now Bobby Kennedy I also like a lot.

[VolcanoJen]

8. My parents always tell me, "We really, REALLY hated Nixon."

They say that we're getting close to that with Bush, but that we're not there quite yet. The draft had a lot to do with it, then, I imagine.... but there's no excuse for not being informed these days.

[Bombtrack]

13. uh no, McGovern ran in 72, 4 + 1/2 years years after Johnson bowed out

Dean's comparisons to McGovern are perfectly legitimate. He probably wouldn't do electorally quite as bad as McGovern. He'd probably get about 50-60 electoral votes instead of the 12 or so McGovern got

[ozone_man]

16. Ha, ha, now Dean is too liberal again, my preference.

He is a McGovern even, my first vote. And blm and AP are always saying that he is not a liberal. This is the dilemma that the RNC and DLC find themselves in.

Well, you can't have it both ways. How about a compromise, call him a centrist, which I think even Dean will agree with.

I don't really know, but maybe JFK or FDR would be better comparisons. As to whether Dean will measure up to those standards, only time will tell.

[Bombtrack]

17. when did I say he was too liberal? that's right I didn't

Of course almost nothing you just said had any intellectual honesty whatsoever so why should I nitpick.

[ozone_man]

21. My issue was Dean being compared to McGovern,

which seems to be an RNC or Rove ploy to make Dean seem unelectable, i.e., brand him as a liberal.

"Dean's comparisons to McGovern are perfectly legitimate."

But, most who Know Dean, know he is not like McGovern. He is a social liberal and fiscal conservative, a centrist, not a big spending liberal, or a big spending war hawk like Bush.

My comment regarding FDR is sincere. Both were governors in the North East, during a declining period or depression in America, brought on by an extreme imbalance in the distribution of wealth, and extreme valuation of the stock market. I do believe that we are headed into a depression of sorts. I really do believe that, if Dean makes it, he will find himself in the same position that FDR did, and having gubernatorial experiance at running the economy, will be able to burrow out the mess that Clinton, Bush, and Alan Greenspan have left us in. He will spend to create jobs, that I know.

JFK is just another New Englander, very charismatic, a great statesman. There may never be another like him.

Maybe Dean will be great, maybe not, time will tell. History never repeats itself exactly, but there can be strong parallels. I'm voting for Dean alot more than just getting rid of Bush.

On edit: Meant to put this under your reply.

[bobbieinok]

10. If you are correct,

remember....

....Humphrey lost because antiwar democrats sat out the election. HHH had not been antiwar or publicly antiwar or antiwar enough for them.

....They thought there was no real difference between HHH and Nixon, or because HHH wasn't exactly what they thought he should be

.........they took their marbles and wouldn't play and went home.

And Nixon won.

Stupid ... stupid ... stupid ...

...more pristine pure than thou purists gave us Nixon.

Am I mad?????? You bet.

...I was in grad school in the 60s and during the civil rights movement. It should be clear to anyone that Nixon's southern strategy of 1960 was the first step to what we now have with aWol - a world in which the admin is working to destroy the civil rights and women's rights gained in the 60s.

Of course, it's now clear that bushco doesn't just want to go back to the 50s. They want to go back before there was any regulation of business, any protection of the environment, any rights for workers.

Back to the 1890s of the robber barons, the 'malefactors of great wealth.' Back before that true republican, Teddy Roosevelt.

[WillyT]

12. I Hear What You're Sayin, But Remember, Bobby's Death...

took the wind out of millions of sails at the time. Many people who would have glady gone to the polls and voted for him, gave up after his murder. Or just could not stomach supporting somebody as 'establishment' as HHH.

I'm hoping and praying that this will not be the case this time, but just look at the Lieberman threads, and you'll see that for many, that same phenomenon is still alive and well.

I don't want Holy Joe either, and I don't believe he's gonna get anywhere near to gaining the nomination. But... if he does by some miracle, I WILL vote for him over the criminal idiot we have in the White House now.

Somebody will have to hold the barfbag for me though.

:puke:

[Cleita]

11. If you ever watch that segment that Jay Leno does on his

show called "Jaywalking" it really points to how uninformed young people are, and I'm not talking about high school drop outs. Last night he spoke to a young college aged woman studying to be a teacher. He showed her a picture of Laura Bush, which she couldn't identify, and after many hints including one in which he said that she married the man in the White House, she said it was Nancy Reagan. :eyes:

[redqueen]

19. Feh

Don't believe what you see on TV... I'll bet ya dollars to doughnuts those people are only acting mind-bogglingly stupid to get their 15 minutes of fame.

It's pure hollywood. Pandering to the viewers.

If Jay asked questions real people might get wrong, then the viewing auidence would get them wrong too and feel stupid.

Keerist... even Jeopardy has been dumbed down.

[TomNickell]

14. But, who's Humphrey/Who's Nixon?

Humphrey represented the incumbent; Nixon the outsider promising a plan to end the war. Protestors disrupted the Democratic convention.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

18. 1968

Kerry = Humphery
- establishment guy who fails to inspire - bad choices on war

Clark = Bobby Kennedy
former supporter of conservatives turned progressives (RFK worked for McCarthy and wiretapped MLK-Clark praised Bush and participated in GOP fundraisers) promising

Dean =
--Eugene McCarthy?? I dunno.

note : all comparisons are based on the state of the race pre-RFK assasination

[WillyT]

20. Ok... Actually I Was Referring To The Tet Offensive, The Rioting In...

the cities, the protests and riots at the Democratic Party Convention in Chicago, etc....

...and the way the country voted 'law and order', after coming to believe that the world was going to hell in a handbasket.

Just wondering if we are smarter than that this time.

:shrug:

But... I have been enjoying the various other takes on the premise.

:hi:

[WillyT]

22. Kick !!!

:kick: