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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-03 06:50 PM
Original message
FBI expands powers while you were distracted by Jacko and Bush
Edited on Fri Nov-21-03 09:54 AM by Skinner
FBI gets approval to expand powers to access financial records.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/20/national/20TERR.html


WASHINGTON, Nov. 19 — Congressional negotiators approved a measure on Wednesday to expand the F.B.I.'s counterterrorism powers, despite concerns from some lawmakers who said that the measure gave the government too much authority and that the public had been shut out of the debate.

( )


The approval came despite 11th-hour concerns raised by five Democrats and a Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee, who questioned why their panel — which has responsibility for overseeing the F.B.I. — was shut out of any discussion on the little-noticed proposal.

In a letter this week to the Senate intelligence committee, the senators urged the panel, which does much of its work in secret, not to move ahead with such a significant expansion of the F.B.I.'s powers without further review. They said public hearings, public debate and legislative protocol were essential in legislation involving the privacy rights of Americans.

The letter was signed by Senator Larry E. Craig, Republican of Idaho, and five Democrats: Mr. Durbin, and Senators Patrick J. Leahy of Vermont, Russell D. Feingold of Wisconsin, Edward M. Kennedy of Massachusetts and John Edwards of North Carolina.

here it was mentioned on Nov 12th-

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/12/politics/12RECO.html?ex=1069648997&ei=1&en=460335e696963025


EDITED BY ADMIN: COPYRIGHT
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-03 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. is this old news already?
oh well, gotta go
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-03 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
2. UP to their old tricks again-lets not forget PA2
paragraphs are being slipped into spending bills.

http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcript242_full.html

BRANCACCIO: There have been new developments in another issue facing the country: how the war on terror touches our personal lives.
Just six weeks after 9/11, the White House pushed through the USA PATRIOT Act, greatly expanding the ability of government to conduct wiretaps and surveillance on Americans.
Then last February, NOW reported on a Justice Department plan dubbed PATRIOT Act II that would give law enforcement even greater powers.
Opposition was swift. Some 200 local governments adopted resolutions opposing it, and the legislation was never introduced in Congress. But the story doesn't end there.
In September, at the FBI Academy in Quantico, Virginia, President Bush pushed again for more tools to fight terrorists, saying the first PATRIOT Act is just not strong enough.

PRESIDENT BUSH: Under current federal law, there are unreasonable obstacles to investigating and prosecuting terrorism, obstacles that don't exist when law enforcement officials are going after embezzlers or drug traffickers.
For the sake of the American people, Congress should change the law and give law enforcement officials the same tools they have to fight terror that they have to fight other crime.

BRANCACCIO: So now the White House has come up with a new legislative tactic. PATRIOT Act II has been broken into small bites, which are appearing as attachments to other appropriation bills.
Here's how it works. Buried deep inside the 77-page Senate Intelligence Authorization bill, parts of which are classified, comes a one paragraph provision titled — listen carefully; it's not fine print, it's the title: MODIFICATION TO DEFINITION OF FINANCIAL INSTITUTION IN THE RIGHT TO FINANCIAL PRIVACY ACT.
Many lawmakers, when they voted to pass the measure this summer, didn't realize the tiny provision would significantly expand government powers.
We talked to the American Civil Liberties Union and they told us the legislation allows the FBI to secretly sift through our financial transactions with car dealers, travel agencies, post offices, casinos, pawnbrokers, as well as securities dealers and currency exchanges, all without a judge's approval.
Bob Barr joins us now to sort through the latest on this issue. He's a former Republican Congressman from Georgia, dubbed "Mr. Privacy" by the columnist William Safire.
Mr. Barr is a contributing editor for the AMERICAN SPECTATOR and sits on the board of the National Rifle Association.
Bob Barr, welcome to NOW.

BARR: Always a pleasure and an honor. Thanks for having me.

BRANCACCIO: Give me a sense of this. Are these theoretical privacy concerns? Or are these things that you me, my grandmother have to worry about right now?

BARR: None of these concerns that I and many others across the country have expressed are theoretical. These are very real concerns. And we're seeing people, I know personally from people coming to me either as an attorney or as an activist on privacy issues with very real stories about very real adverse effects that have befallen them.
Bank accounts that had been closed out with no reason. And the PATRIOT Act cited as the reason. Now, these are powers that are affecting real people, real citizens, law-abiding citizens every day. And we all ought to be concerned about the extent to which our privacy is being invaded.

BRANCACCIO: What do you think about this apparent strategy to insert a little paragraph here into a new law? Or maybe a little paragraph there instead of trying to push for a whole new PATRIOT Act II?

BARR: I always hate to tell people I told them so. But I've been warning for months now that in the wake of the adverse reaction to the initial draft of what I call the Son of PATRIOT Act early this year, the government would probably switch tactics to start trying to insert separate specific provisions of it into other bills. And that's particularly dangerous during the final few months of any Congressional session when all of the spending bills come up.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-03 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. This is definitely one that could slip under the radar
so vote it up where you can, eg
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031120/ap_on_go_co/congress_intelligence_1

currently at 4.10, which is a good sign, but it's early days.
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-03 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. Great link!
thank you so much. I didn't see this program. It is amazing, this level of duplicity that is going on, and, uh, isn't it unconstitutional for this panel to make this legislation with virtually no public imput or discussion? --not to mention other legislators-- especially the ones involved in overseeing the govt offices these measures concern???

I know the original measures of the patriot act were also pushed through in late-night sessions with little or no discussion, either.

these must be the freedoms we're hated for.

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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-03 04:12 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. yep- A must read
people don't realize the implications yet, but they will soon...
The Waxman interview is equally superb.
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-03 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #2
18. slaveplanet
Per DU copyright
rules please post
only 4 paragraphs
from the news source.

Thank you.


NYer99
DU Moderator
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-03 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
3. So who are these "congressional negociators" that are making it legal
to invade everyone elses privacy but their own.
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slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-03 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. Hell they're none other than-
the super duper extra special secret squirrel negotiators working for that 3 lettered private firm...the IRS
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-03 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
4. Ashcan said FBI didn't need any extra $ for counterterror on 9-10-01.
Crisco Asskan actually declined Democrat efforts to add money for counter-terrorism on September 10, 2001. Now the oily turd says we need to scrap the Bill of Rights (except the Second Amendment) to go after the same turds his boss does business with. Makes sense.

PS: FUCK YOU, BUSH!

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giantrobot_2000 Donating Member (233 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-03 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
5. Look over there!
Look over there! It's Paris Hilton! Having sex!

Look! It's Michael Jackson being weird again! Isn't he weird!

Look over there! It's John Ashcroft and the FBI slowly consolidating it's power to XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

XXXX THIS MESSAGE HAS BEEN CENSORED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY FOR YOUR OWN PROTECTION XXXX
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-03 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. LOL! You must be in the news business!
A hearty welcome to DU, giantrobot_2000!

Now I must get back to the entertainment section...
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giantrobot_2000 Donating Member (233 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-03 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Ha
Haha! Thanks, man!
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-03 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. are you a man or a magazine?
welcome to DU.

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quinnox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-20-03 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. lol
very good!
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-03 05:54 AM
Response to Reply #5
14. Well said
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Nlighten1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-03 06:21 AM
Response to Original message
15. Jesus
It looks like the dictatorship Bush spoke so highly of is coming.
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dmr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-03 06:40 AM
Response to Original message
16. Damn
securities dealers, currency exchanges, car dealers, travel agencies, post offices, casinos, pawnbrokers and any other institution doing cash transactions with "a high degree of usefulness in criminal, tax or regulatory matters

Any other institution could be just about anything, and I'm sure they mean it to be anything.. Goodbye privacy.

I don't know what the difference is between the two subpoenas, except the criminal may mean there is an active criminal investigation going on, and the administrative means they are out fishing when they want to harrass, bully or scare those into 'cooperating' in naming names - like old Joe McCarthy.
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onebigbadwulf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-03 06:50 AM
Response to Original message
17. Lets hope they use that to convict Rush
then repeal the law shortly after
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-21-03 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
19. Kick
This ought to be pinned to the top, as it is one of the most important problems we are facing.
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