JFK vs. RFK - a question

[dean4america]

In this week of JFK reflections -- and, with it, a fair amount of reflection on Bobby -- I wanted to bring something up that a number of people I know who were alive when John and Bobby were killed have been saying.

Anyway, amidst the praise of JFK, I keep hearing people say things like "John's death was awful, but Bobby's was worse...." and, also, saying things like "JFK was a great President, but, man, Bobboy would have been better..."

Aside from the implications of '68 itself and that particular contextual history, I haven't been able to grasp if there is something more to the attachment people seem to have to Bobby.

Does anyone who was alive back them care to comment on this?

[La_Serpiente]

1. I wasn't alive then

but I know one thing. I know Robert didn't think Vietnam was a good idea.

[fujiyama]

2. I didn't live back then

but I would venture a guess that it is because he was very vocal about he important issues of the day especially civil rights and the war, perhaps moreso than his brother, and he had a lot of energy.

[DemBones DemBones]

3. When JFK was killed, we all really lost our innocence.

Within the next couple of years, the war in Viet Nam ramped up and started coming into people's living rooms. Then MLK was killed, which was another big shock and set off riots. Remember that we'd just come through so much (sit-ins, freedom riders, the Birmingham church bombing that killed four little girls, Selma) and MLK was a leader through all that. LBJ had gotten the Civil Rights Act passed and it looked like things might settle down. King was killed in April. I guess it was May when LBJ announced he wouldn't run for another term. People were getting excited about a new start, a president to get us out of Viet Nam. And then one night in June RFK was dead, too, and it was all too damned much.

[SheilaT]

20. It was March 31st when LBJ

announced he wouldn't run. When McCarthy came in second (yes, secon, not first) in the New Hampshire primary, Johnson essentially threw a hissy fit and decided he wouldn't put up with having to run a real campaign.

It was AFTER Johnson withdrew that RFK decided to get in to the race, and he took a lot of heat for waiting that long to announce his candidacy. He did not have anything near a majority of delegates after the California primary, the night he was shot.

[DODI]

4. I was barely alive --

but I have always felt, as have those who are older than me, that if Bobby had become president we would have a much better world now. Bobby seemed to have a better grasp of the racial issues of the time, the poverty issues and the war than his brother did. Three men could have changed this world for the better, but instead three men stopped that world from coming about. With Bobby's death the hope and dreams of the sixties that his brother and Rev. King brought about seemed to have died with him. It is hard to imagine that in the space of 5 years three great leaders were murdered. In a ten year span we also lost two other important leaders -- Medgar (sp.) Evers and Malcolm X.

[incapsulated]

5. Well...

I was a toddler then, but using my mother's recollection as a possible explanation; the country seemed to be coming apart during that election, with the war, political assasination, riots... Bobby seemed to be the only hope, the only one who could lead us out of the whole mess. When he was killed, it seemed that hope died with him. And that sort of loss often engenders a great amount of emotion. That is not to say that he was not important in his own right, but in the context of what was going on at the time, his importance and good qualities seemed greatly amplified.

[Racenut20]

6. This should explain him, if you think about it

He was scheduled to speak in Indianapolis the night after MLK was killed. The riots were already breaking out natinwide in the cities. He kept the date, open air, no protection, and spoke eloquently. Without sounding politically incorrect (I hope), it was not in the upscale neighborhood where he spoke. Indianapolis was the only major city that did not experience unrest that night.

[Gman]

8. That explains it all about RFK

[Bridget Burke]

13. From the PBS site on Great American Speeches

"After a full day of campaigning in Indiana, on March 31, 1968, Kennedy flew to Indianapolis for an outdoor rally scheduled in one of the most impoverished parts of town.

.....

"When Kennedy landed in Indianapolis, he learned that King was dead. The chief of police predicted violence and advised Kennedy to cancel the speech. The candidate decided to press on.

"The crowd of predominately African-Americans were still jovial, no one had told them King had been slain.

......

"In response to King's slaying, riots broke out in 167 cities; stores and homes were burned; 46 people were killed. Before 55,000 armed troops fully restored order, 23,000 people were arrested, 21,000 injured. Indianapolis, where Kennedy spoke, was the only major city where rioting did not occur."

Here's the site. Links to the Speech, Audio files & Background (quoted above) are available. Also links to other words of interest.

http://www.pbs.org/greatspeeches/timeline/

[kcwayne]

7. RFK was less important to me

I was 10 when JFK was assassinated, and I still remember alot more of what I thought about him and the event, than what I thought about RFK.

Growing up in an era of "duck and cover" with the now seemingly rediculous safety drills in school where we got under the desk to protect ourselves from the nuclear blast, the world seemed to be a dangerous place. When you combine the conflict generated by the Civil Rights movement, the Viet Nam war, and the protests against the war, the world seemed to be a very dangerous place, even to a 15 year old.

I think about the childhood my daughter (born in 1991) has had, and there is no comparision. The weight of world affairs does not penetrate her conciousness. Even 9/11 didn't seem to register with her.

Bobby's assassination came 2 months after Martin Luther King was assassinated. I remember thinking that "they" would simply kill anyone who tried to change the government. So for me, RFK's death was a blur in a whole series of catastrophies. This period of time was the starting point for when I started disbelieving the world view of my parents, and became very distrustful of the government. "Hey, Hey LBJ, how many kids did you kill today"

RFK announced his candidacy in March and was killed in June. I was not even aware of him until he announced his candidacy, and thought since he was JFKs brother that he would be good. But he was on the scene for only 4 months, so he didn't really have time to create a big impression on me. But again, I was only 15 at the time.

[zeemike]

9. I was 20 when JFK was killed

And for me it was the awakening of politics in my world.
But what few that were not aware of those times don’t realize is that Bobby Kennedy had a following of young people that were just as energized as the Dean supporters are now, and maybe even more so.
And there was also the feeling that RFK would seek justice for the murder of his brother and it was probably the main reason that he had to be killed.
Just dig up some of his speeches form the time and you will see what I mean. He had tremendous populist appeal and had he lived he would have shaken the foundations of the powerful.

[Rowdyboy]

10. Read "An American Melodrama: The Presidential Election of 1968:...

I was 9 when JFK was shot, 14 when Bobby was murdered. Bobby touched a chord with the American people that is difficult to explain. No politiciian I've seen since has the same ability-certainly none of the guys running this time. Bobby had a unique connection.

The book I mentioned was written by three journalists whoi covered the election. Much of it deals with Bobby, but all the other candidates are covered in depth too. Its well worth your time.

[sandnsea]

11. Bobby was pure

He was really the conscience of JFK's Presidency, to me. He didn't have political agendas or interest groups, he had people he cared about and he was dedicated to making change and raising the conscience of Americans so that they would see change was necessary. MLK was killed, Bobby was killed, it seemed like anything decent and moral would not survive.

"There are children in the Mississippi Delta," he said, "whose bellies are swollen with hunger ... Many of them cannot go to school because they have no clothes or shoes. These conditions are not confined to rural Mississippi. They exist in dark tenements in Washington, D.C., within sight of the Capitol, in Harlem, in South Side Chicago, in Watts. There are children in each of these areas who have never been to school, never seen a doctor or a dentist. There are children who have never heard conversation in their homes, never read or even seen a book."

[coda]

12. I remember an aide(?) to RFK

talking about how his campaign was so different than anything he had seen or experienced and the effect RFK had on people. How Kennedy would just let it all hang out...unguarded and how people responded to it.

The aide(?) was saying how RFK had previously been for the death penalty and when it was learned that he was opposed to it, a reporter asked, (to my best recollection) "But weren't you previously for the death penalty?"

Bobby said "Yes, but that was before I read Camus."


The aide(?) was saying "Who but Bobby could have gotten away with that?" or "Who but Bobby would/could have said that?"



Definitely not a candidates generic pat answer for sure. :-)

[Solomon]

14. Bobby Kennedy was the heart and soul of the vision for the future

that John Kennedy inspired. There was a feeling that he would have done greater things than John for the common good. He would have been a world changer. He was special. Not that John wasn't. But there was something about Bobby that engendered great hope for the future.

Bobby represented what the world might have become if the pendulum had not swung back to the right. All the good things that the left wanted to accomplish for the world. He made us feel that he would right the wrongs whatever they were. He was our last hope, after all the others were mercilessly shot down. I still remember hearing the news of King being shot. There was a considerable period before they announced he was dead. But I knew in my heart, from the time I heard he had been shot, that he was going to die. My mother wanted to whip me for saying so. We were all crying about it.

One very special thing about Bobby is that he was fearless. He wasn't afraid to say what needed to be said or go any place. I remember thinking that they were going to get him too. When it happened it was almost surreal. Like you kind of expected it.

So so sad. It brings back many buried feelings to think about it. Most of us have learned to push the memories of that time deep within us. The truth is, we push it back because his death, coming after the others, killed the dream in all of us. It killed the dream we had of what kind of place america was to be.

I always felt that the movement of the 60's was engendered by the right ideas of what kind of world there should be, but after the death of Bobby, the propaganda machine began to criticize and make fun of the 60's as though people had gone wacko. The hippies and all that. But to me it was one of the greatest periods in american history. When people thought seriously about being "people" and understanding each other. There was an explosion of color, thought, ideas, hopes, everything. It was the very opposite of the me first me me me generation we have now. Bobby's death killed all of that.

Back we went to the dark ages of greed and arrogance. It's funny. When we saw that pendulum swing to the right, most of us thought that it would be cyclical. That after ten to fifteen years or so, the pendulum would swing back again. Boy were we wrong. I guess we didn't kind on the manipulation that would occur to keep it to the right. I been waiting a long time for it to come back. Too long.
Sometimes I think it's almost too late. That the chance we lost was irrevocable. And that the powers who caused it know more than we do what was lost.

[mikehiggins]

15. RFK

The very first political campaign I was ever involved with was RFK's run for the Senate from NYS. He was a great man, and I considered him heads and shoulders above any of his brothers.

When he was killed I was home in bed and my own brother came to tell me the news. It was sickening.

There is no doubt that an RFK presidency would have moved the world, but it is all hypothetical thanks to Sirhan Sirhan. Much of the evil in the world today is directly traceable to his finger on that trigger and it pleases me that he will likely rot in jail until he dies.

But hey, that's just me, right?

[zeemike]

16. Well said

That does express some of the feelings of the time.
And I would say that this destruction of hope turned at least some away from peace to violence became they thought there was no other way.
Let us pray that we don’t get fooled again.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

17. On a happier, note, why don't you Americans...

...rally behind RFK Jr. and help him kick ass (an activity he seems to enjoy?) Get him a bulletproof vest too, and keep him away from small planes.

[dbt]

19. Because we are now Zombie Nation

We will no more rally behind RFK Jr than we will string up the Supreme Court Traitors who nullified every vote cast in the 2000 election.

We have our Bread and Circuses. We are fat, happy and completely stupid.

Comfortably Dumb.

:freak:
dbt

[Screaming Lord Byron]

18. My Dad firmly believes Bobby to have been more left than Jack

I also believe that, although of course, I wasn't there. To a lot of us, Bobby is an untarnished Jack.

On Edit. Instead of President Nixon, Imagine President RFK. That has a lot do with it. Yes, Eugene McCarthy would have been equally appealing.

[Solomon]

21. When Bobby died we lost the idea that

we could change government from within for the better. Of course it wasn't just Bobby's death alone. But his death seemed to drive home the point in a "fugedaboutit" way.