What Does Freedom Mean to You?

[BurtWorm]

[elfwitch]

1. boils down to one statement...

I feel that freedom can be described as a state of being where everyone follows the basic premise of, "Thall shalt not bug thy neighbor."

If everyone would be responsible for themselves and the people they care for and love, and spent less time trying to get up in the business of people they have never met...

I feel the world would be a more free and more peaceful place. Things tends to get gummed up when other people think they know better how to run your life than you do.

That is my idea of freedom.

[sangh0]

2. That's libertarianism ("Thall shalt not bug thy neighbor.")

Freedom has nothing to do with "personal responsibility". That's Republicanism.

spent less time trying to get up in the business of people they have never met...

Yes. God forbid we get involved when someone else's freedom is being denied. That would be oppresive of us.

I feel the world would be a more free and more peaceful place. Things tends to get gummed up when other people think they know better how to run your life than you do.

Yes, things are so much more peaceful in nations with no government.

[elfwitch]

8. I wasn't saying no government...

I am saying that far too many people worry, at the personal level, more about what is going on in other people's houses than what is going on in their own. People seem to have time to scream about homosexuality and gay marriage, while they ignore their own crumbling relationships. They can cry about violence on TV and how it corrupts children, but they don't have the common sense to turn off their televisions and talk to their kids.

If every person would stop trying to blame television, movies, video games, the government, liberals, God, or whatever for their misery and trouble and would spend a little more time exploring themselves as the cause, I think the world could be a much nicer place to be. When I say personal responsibility I mean own up to your strngths and your faults and try to use those in the world when you deal with others. Stop trying to blame your shortcomings on others.

If every person just took respobsibility for their own little enviornment and cherished it like it is the only air they are ever going to breathe, or the only land they will ever get to live on, or the only water they will ever get to drink, you could clean up the air and the land and the water.

If your area is nice to be in and mine is nice to be in and everybody takes the time to make their little sphere of the wourld a nicer place to be, then it wouldn't take long for the whole thing to be better.

But that will never happen.

[sangh0]

10. Don't you know what Libertarianism is?

It's not "no government".

I am saying that far too many people worry, at the personal level, more about what is going on in other people's houses than what is going on in their own.

And I am saying that you are worrying about what other people are doing. Mind your own business!

People seem to have time to scream about homosexuality and gay marriage, while they ignore their own crumbling relationships.

And you're going to fix that by butting into *their* personal lives? BTW, how do you know so much about their relationships?

They can cry about violence on TV and how it corrupts children, but they don't have the common sense to turn off their televisions and talk to their kids

Again, how do you know what these people do in their homes?

If every person would stop trying to blame television, movies, video games, the government, liberals, God, or whatever for their misery and trouble and would spend a little more time exploring themselves as the cause, I think the world could be a much nicer place to be. When I say personal responsibility I mean own up to your strngths and your faults and try to use those in the world when you deal with others. Stop trying to blame your shortcomings on others.

Then stop blaming the people who are concerned about others, and willing to help them. I see you blame all sorts of people, but you do none of what you say others should do. You acknowledge no responsibility, and you blame others.

[elfwitch]

19. boy did you peg me wrong....

You really got the idea that I'm butting in?
I was answering a question that was posed on this thread.
THEN.... I was explaining to YOU, what you misunderstood about what I said.

I could honestly give half a crap what other people are doing. I would love to be left alone. I would love to not have to see people on the side of the road with anti-gay, anti-choice, anti-whatever signs. I would love to never have to get mad again when I hear about somebody's civil liberties being squashed because some zealot decided that they were sinners and proposed a law to legislate morality. I WOULD LOVE IT!!!

I am fully responsible for my home, family, self, and surroundings. I try to leave whatever place I have been in the same or better condition than it was when I found it. I never tell others how to live their lives. At most I tell people to let their freak flag fly, be proud of who they are, and I accept their differences as long as they accept mine.

When asked for help I always give it. I rarely butt in when my assistance is neither needed nor requested. I educate when I can, especially when people don't know what something is or why it is happening. But I don't go out shouting on the rooftops to bug people that may not give a crap about what I have to say.

And to answer another charge of yours, I in fact do know what Libertarianism is. Funny what a graduate degree in Political Science will teach one.

And as far as blame goes, I have only myself to blame some days for getting in to discussions like this instead of just stepping away and letting bygones be bygones. So I fully accept the blame for you not getting what I was saying and for you thinking I was some kind of busybody, because I am SO NOT.

[sangh0]

20. That's why your definition of "freedom" is inaccurate

I would love to never have to get mad again when I hear about somebody's civil liberties being squashed because some zealot decided that they were sinners and proposed a law to legislate morality. I WOULD LOVE IT!!!

Freedom includes the freedom to be concerned about others. It does NOT require one to keep one's nose out of other people's business. Freedom does require that we do mind other people's business. It's one of those responsibilities you spoke of. However, it's not a "personal" responsibility; It's a civic responsibility.

[ibegurpard]

22. The question posed by this thread was:

"What does freedom mean to YOU?" (emphasis added by me)
Now, I know how you love to be a contrarian but just where do you get off telling people that their PERSONAL definitions are wrong? Jesus, give it a rest for once.

[sangh0]

24. "personal" definitions?

There's nothing personal about the definition of a word.

[ibegurpard]

26. Once again Sangha...

...the question posed was "What does freedom mean TO YOU?" NOT "How does the Merriam Webster Dictionary define freedom?" Arguing with people's emotions and opinions is really silly.

[elfwitch]

23. I fear that we have tangled before.

I will tangle with you no further.
You miss my meaning.
You read things into that which does not appear.

As it is nearly Shabbat, my final word to you on this is
Shalom!

[Character Assassin]

27. Citizen, it's not tangling with that poster, it's getting your foot stuck

He misses no meanings because he lives off those of his own invention.

He dispenses with commonly held definitions in favor of authoritarianism and throwing baubles to the easily distracted.

Don't be one of them.

[arewethereyet]

28. I'm a little confused with this statement

OK, you can be free to take note of the business of others but don't you violate their freedom if you choose to interfere with it ? Freedom should be equally available should it not ?

(I'm assuming that the object of your concern is following the guideline of not impinging on the life liberty or property of another, or, not bugging anyone as has been offered. The zealots you mention have violated this caveat and are out of the discussion as it is simply required that they be obliged to cease their obstruction. The object of the zealot's attention is the party in question.)

[Character Assassin]

30. It's called a police state.

Don't be confused by the confused.

And as for your paranthetical statement: don't assume.

[arewethereyet]

31. this is a conceptual thread, assumptions are acceptable

the theories being offered were icompatible in my mind and I was hoping for an explination as to what I was missing.

[foo_bar]

12. speaking of sarcasm

Freedom has nothing to do with "personal responsibility". That's Republicanism.

"Freedom makes a huge requirement of every human being. With freedom comes responsibility. For the person who is unwilling to grow up, the person who does not want to carry his own weight, this is a frightening prospect."

- Eleanor Roosevelt, famous Republican

[sangh0]

15. Then it must be true

Not.

on edit: Even the enslaved have responsibilities and the enslaved can take responsibility for their actions. The fact that free people have responsibilities does nothing to distinguish then from the enslaved.

[foo_bar]

16. "for the person who is unwilling to grow up"

it was a dedication of sorts.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

3. George Michael's campest song.

[catzies]

4. You say that like it's a bad thing. *wink*

:P

[Screaming Lord Byron]

6. God, no! George it at his best when he camps.

[Frangible]

5. freedom is

Doing what you will such that it doesn't hurt others.

[IronLionZion]

7. minding your own damn business

instead of controlling every aspect of people's personal lives and only stepping in if someone is getting hurt. And being free to own property.

The polar opposite of freedom is slavery and totalitarianism.

One thing Fascism and Socialism have in common is their lack of freedom.

Don't flame me.

[sangh0]

11. Are those the only 2 choices

"minding your own damn business" and "controlling every aspect of people's personal lives"?

[cyclezealot]

13. Freedom

We have been to Europe too many times..The history of First Amendment rights in the US is not what we think.. Started with the Alien and Sedition act, the Palmer raids, the jailing of Eugene Debs. What good is the First Amendment if all you can do is talk to yourself in the shower. As Ashfcroft says, you gotta watch what you say. I have felt that way for many years in America. Don't we recall the freedoms of the early 1950's.
If you do not own a printing press then in the US your right to say what you think is over-rated. Recall, Michael Moores' publishing problems after 9-11...He had to go to Canada.
Think about media control of music in the US and how many artists have label problems..How media concentration in the US restricts new talent from emerging. The new Patriot Act II might threaten your citizenship by just the shrug of the Attorney General.
Liked the phrase by Janis Joplin.."Freedom's just another word when you have nothing else to loose."
Some other threads of late here at DU reminded us, better watch out, someone is monitoring us..!
How appropriate.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

9. I thought freedom was just another word for nothing left to lose

didn't someone famous say that?

[Robroy]

14. Kristofferson

from "Me and Bobby McGee", a big hit for Janis Joplin too.

[Hep]

17. Why do I feel like I'm a contestant in Miss America?

Freedom to me means to me that I can say what I want and go where I want. I can eat chocolate all day or just watch the soaps. That is what freedom means to me. *Smile*

:)

[sangh0]

21. Because you just had a bikini wax?

I couldn't resist :-)

[arewethereyet]

29. ouch

I cannot understand this practice

[0007]

18. Freedom to me is to be able to express your feelings..

..freely about the society you live in without fear of reprisal and be able to walk away from those you disagree with.

Freedom is living in a country where the written law applies to all and is open to all with no secret society that operates in the dark against this doctrine of freedom. (such as the cabal in charge now!)

[Guaranteed]

25. Those people who voted for the last one...

Man...yeah, it may be true that the right has hijacked the word. But it has a REAL, positive, and important meaning. We have to take it back, just like the flag. Erg....