NY Times – 2 Sides of Clark on Stump: Passion and a Lack of It

[pruner]

Clearly in command when talking about military matters, General Clark is described by some listeners as tentative and lacking passion when he talks about issues like health care or education: "A little more generalized and canned than I might have preferred," said Rob Smith, who was at the session at Plymouth State.

The chasm between how the general speaks about foreign policy and about the bread and butter issues of American life may help explain why General Clark has not been able to maintain the kind of excitement and attention he attracted when he cannonballed into the race two months ago.

General Clark, a former NATO commander, has pulled out of the Iowa caucuses and he remains stuck in the pack with six other candidates in New Hampshire, far behind Howard Dean and Senator John Kerry. And in the last week on the trail, he has occasionally seemed testy and shown flashes of anger.

<snip>

Since he entered the race, General Clark has used policy speeches to spell out his views on domestic issues, yet when he is off the cuff he often does little more than recite Democratic mantra.

But given his experience directing the war in Kosovo and working on military matters, he says, domestic issues are not what people want to hear about from him.

<snip>

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/22/politics/campaigns/22CLAR.html?ex=1070168400&en=cf234ff0f348b09f&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE

[FrenchieCat]

1. Thanks so much Pruner.....

We can always rely on you to seek out the best of the best smears available. I owe you a great debt!

Since Clark has only had time to defend himself from "Republican until 25 days ago"..."Flip/Flop attacks"......."Curly, Larry, and Moe" offensives.....and mainly only being asked about foreign affairs, then yes....maybe it is the case that his domestic policy is less polished.

And since the mediawhores are really hoping that Clark's campaign will fade, this is just more of that attempt. Notice that there were not positive quotes out of the 3 used? But then I am sure you know a hit piece when you read one.

However, I don't recall any other candidate having made as many points about Bush's foreign policy other than Clark. I believe that this is what the election is going to be about anyway in the end. The fact that our Foreign relations all around the world are F*cked up. That countries all over are hearing and experiencing explosions!

You can elect someone for his domestic policies if you want...but will he win? that is the 100,000,000,000,000 gazillion dollar question!

[pruner]

2. you're welcome

[roguevalley]

4. yawn. He still has my vote. I don't care about passion. I want smarts and

guts. He has both in spades. NYT, a bastion of integrity.

[FrenchieCat]

8. So are they talking about you Pruner...

when the talk about the Dean supporters that try to eliminate the positive, latch on the the negative....

Don't be Mr. Inbetween?

ABB, Uh?

Dean will lose, you hear me! quit covering up your ears.

If you really want your country back, try supporting someone with foreign policy experience and without the DOA tax increase proposition.......

But maybe you don't really want your country back.....

Just want to win something, like the nomination...

cause you sure ain't gonna win the general election.

So there!

[pruner]

11. I didn't write the damn article…

quit your bitching & moaning already.

[FrenchieCat]

12. I like Bitching and moaning....

just like the guy you support........

"I want my country back"......bitch, bitch...moan, moan....

[dfong63]

9. and count on Clark's amen corner to dismiss any criticism,

... no matter how valid or insightful.

[FrenchieCat]

14. Yea, right.....

Noticed I stayed out of the very long "Drudge report" on the Dean draft dodger story. Cause I am not interested. I am biased and know that what I will offer will always favor my candidate.

You all should realize the same about yourselves. You are not exempt you know.

Yes, I am pissed. Because the article which is really an opinion piece is full of Shit!......that said, I will go write my letter now.

[jumptheshadow]

25. Another view

Clark is great on foreign policy, and that's what people like Russert direct the questions.

But in order to win over undecided Democrats he's going to have to get more airtime on domestic issues. Dean and other candidates have spent tens of thousands of hours discussing the issues of their constituents.

Clark is a quick study. I know his schedule is filled but it might help immensely if he could spend time with some of his congressional supporters, talking about policy issues and listening to personal stories.

[DemExpat]

33. I go along with your view on this.....Clark needs study/practice

in domestic issues, but he is a smart, quick learner!

:kick:

DemEx

[QC]

3. They're giving us the party line here.

Ever notice how the presstitutes always pick a storyline and make all the campaign news fit it? Like Lying Gore vs. Likeable Bush?

Now it seems the party line about Clark, judging from the coverage, is that his campaign just can't maintain people's interest, which is a pretty odd charge against someone who polls best against Bush and is giving the frontrunner a real race.

I can think of quite a few candidates who would give anything for their campaigns to be going as badly as Clark's.

[Kool Kitty]

5. Agreed.

And I question the "lack of passion" point. Sure, he's not a screamer, but if you watch the town hall meetings that he has done or listen to his speeches, I think he comes across as caring and sincere. I think he's inspiring.

[FrenchieCat]

6. Well it's ok....

cause New York Times will get my letter on this.....that's for sure!

The bastards just twist stories anyway that they can.

You can tell it's a set up.....cause they even used the Faux interview to make their point. So it's damm if you do, damm if you don't.

They understand who can kick Bush's ass is all.

[Skwmom]

32. Take a look on a prior article he co-wrote about Clark

Clark Offers Plan to Build New Alliance

In the article he brings up the character and integrity smear. Okay, since it was asked at the conference I can see it being included in the article.

However, what does he do next? Talks about how Lieberman has made integrity an issue during the election and then quotes Lieberman discussing in essence Bush's lack of intergrity. How did this belong in an article entitled "Clark offers Plan to Build New Alliance." In addition, I think the author is trying to slyly equate Clark with Bush on the integrity issue.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/21/politics/campaigns/21CAMP.html

[Bread and Circus]

36. Good post, QC...

I read the NYT article, it doesn't describe reality as
far as I see it. It's ok for an opinion piece though.

I say hey, if the Democratic Party wants to nominate Dean,
more power to us. It's going to be so interesting to watch
the contortions of pain come November 2004 when many here
aren't going to like the "storyline" of the Presstitutes then.

[w4rma]

7. Dean/Clark, Yin/Yang, Domestic/Foreign, Doctor/Warrior

President/Vice President, I hope. :)

[FrenchieCat]

10. quit attaching

Clark to Dean's breast pocket. That is tiring....

We know why Dean needs Clark....

Just don't know why Clark would need Dean, is all!

[w4rma]

13. for

substance (especially on domestic issues such as health care),
organizing strength (no Dem has ever done better than Dean),
campaigning strength,
governing experience,
Democratic credibility,
a polcy wonk

[Julien Sorel]

22. Dean took his healthcare plan from the DLC.

Dean's 'organizing strangth' will probably disappear with his presidential aspirations. Dean's 'governing experience' is untested outside of a tiny little lily-white state. Dean was also supposed to be the 'battle-tested' candidate, who wouldn't make mistakes, while one of the things the Clark bashers said over and again was how Clark might 'make mistakes' that the 'experienced Dean wouldn't.' Since then, Dean has done nothing but shove as many feet into his mouth as he can find, and he always seems hungry for more. I can only hope his 'governing experience' will prove more useful than his 'campaigning experience' has. 'Democratic credibility?' What 'Democratic credibility?' He's alientated Democrats with his ceaseless attacks. As bad as these are, in many ways, the biggest bullshit claim of all is 'policy wonk.' Clinton was a policy wonk. Clark is a policy wonk. Both men will sit down and read legislation themselves, will, study an issue until they understand it. Dean himself admits he is no deep thinker, and his campaign to date has come up with exactly zero original policy initiatives. Policy wonk my ass.

The absolutely only reason any Democratic presidential candidate would take this loud-mouthed, ill-tempered time bomb on as a running mate would be to keep his irrational, crybaby supporters from trying to wreck the party at a time when the party needs unity. Dean himself is a liability, and it's unlikely he will be anything but unless he manages to somehow actually win the nomination, and then not get totally blown out in a general election, taking several senators with him on his negative coattails.

[pruner]

15. Clark will need Dean…

if he wants to be on the ticket.

[Julien Sorel]

16. I think ewe are wrong.

[pruner]

17. LOL

:)

[FrenchieCat]

19. Yea, right.....

Like Dean is the only one who has domestic experience. 600,000 people in the state.......yep, I'm impressed! He's the only one that Clark can pick to have a strong ticket....right! Whatever!

[Skwmom]

28. Dean's doesn't have sufficient experience in domestic

policy. Vermont is smaller than many US cities. Plus, when Dean goes down in flames as a lying, dishonest, smarmy politician I'd hate to see Clark associated with him.

[SahaleArm]

18. Latest NY Times Headlines - 33 Years Later, Draft Becomes Topic for Dean

NY Times Headlines :evilgrin:

33 Years Later, Draft Becomes Topic for Dean

Kerry Outlines His First Steps as President

2 Sides of Clark on Stump: Passion and a Lack of It

[FrenchieCat]

23. Boy....

some of those photos look like mugshots!

[SahaleArm]

24. Is it on the cover of the paper version of the NY Times?

Here's a blast from the past.

[neuvocat]

20. A man who talks about executive reduced to selling cars

vs. a man who never had to work a day in his life, and they end up saying something like that. What a load.

[Skwmom]

30. Plus what about his visits to childcare

centers and schools where "magic happened" and the teachers were very impressed with how he conducted his visits compared to other candidates.

[FrenchieCat]

21. My letter to the New York Times.....

This is my letter to the Editor in reference to the article: In re-reading the article only the Headline and the last couple of paragraphs are smears...the rest is actually not so negative.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear New York Times Editor,
In reading the "2 sides of Clark on the Stump: Passion and a Lack of it", I was very interested as to why the headline was written as negatively as it was. Lack of passion is never a good thing, or is it? I have seen General Clark speak in person and I can negate what Maya Blanchette, the junior from Plymouth State University is quoted as saying in the story. I find more than passion or lack thereof in Wes Clark's discussions. I find truth, honesty, depth, sophistication and understanding. Mr. Krugman even used Clark's words in writing his most current column. Mr. Krugman called the Medicare bill a "Trojan Horse", the same term Clark used during the AARP debates in New Hampshire. I saw that debate, and I found that General Clark had more than enough passion on the issue of Medicare.

If I read the story correctly, it appears that according to the Edward Wyatt, candidates should be passionate about all things to all people. I guess that a teardrop during a sex education response would have made the campaign more "even".

what I find comforting about General Wes Clark is his strength, vision and leadership qualities. The passion is great for show, but we should not forget that the General is neither a lifelong politician nor an actor.

The sentiments that Clark emoted for dying soldiers and dead innocents is more than apropos during this time of war and death. Often I wish that our current Commander-in-chief could muster up a little more emotion on the subject. But of course Mr. Bush's passion lies mainly with his tax cuts, his corporate friends, and undermining our Allies and International institution.

Too bad that the last couple of paragraphs of an otherwise seemingly decent article had to sneak the negative right at the very end. So first one sees the negative headline, then one gets a negative closing. Well done if the impression that the reporter wanted to leave was one unfavorable to this candidate. Pity.
Respectfully,

[JNelson6563]

26. I know you may find this hard to believe Frenchie

but they really are putting out hit pieces on all of 'em, especially the frontrunners. My party Chair sent me an article yesterday, unfavorable toward Dean. I took a look at it and it was so Ann Coulterish I nearly hurled. They alluded to things being quotes from other sources yet, when checking out the sources cited, I found nothing of the sort.

It was so easy to take that article apart and point to the framing of the language, vague allusions to quotes that were not real and all manner of smear tactics.

This article was from some Dem organization of sorts, I suppose they've likely got a hit piece on the General too. Kinda like The New Republic(an), they don't seem to find much nice to say about any of the Dems.

Now as to Clark "needing" Dean, take a cool-headed look at it. The other candidates can't beat Dean. How could they beat Jr.? Inasmuch as I do like the General I too have noticed a lack of passion sometimes. I don't mean it as a slam, just an observation. I think that these two men could provide a good balance for each other and in more than just their official areas of expertise.

I think we should all just cool down a bit and try to see things clearly. Take the emotion out of the equation in order to make the right decisions.

I trulythink tha tthese two men may end up on the ticket together. there are forces that must be appeased in order for this all important victory to be achieved and I believe this is likely the only path to that goal.

Just a few (hopefully) rational thoughts on the matter.

Julie

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Skwmom]

29. Just because Clark doesn't act like an

angry little man all the time or do some moonie chant does not mean that he lacks passion. Clark has plenty of passion. In addition, Dean has been getting a free pass from the press (as even the ABC Note has pointed out even though they cheerlead for Dean on a daily basis). Pointing out an article or 2 which doesn't cheerlead for Dean hardly refutes this fact.

[Skwmom]

31. I think the quote about Clark's experience with

domestic issues in the military was bogus. He's talked about having to deal with education, healthcare, and other domestic issues in the military. They use an example of potholes and underwear. This article was deliberately slanted. I would not call it a seemingly decent article. It's crap like this which makes me question anything else the article contains. In addition, it seems like big crowds in this primary election have more to do with a "bash bush fest" than anything else.

[AmericanDem]

34. We have to come up with something to take ...

this card away from the media and back into our own hands. I just read another subject heading here stating CNN was saying most of the crowds in the UK, were in favor of Bush ( now you know its gone too far!).

We have no way to beat down these out and out lies anymore. The media is a major source and participant in them. We need to get our country pack and get the word out everyday folks about the major media is up to.

Does anyone have any serious suggestions what can possibly get the word out others that aren't up on such things as we are here?. This is getting really bad. We are losing our country through a manipulative scheme between the white house and major media.

[xultar]

37. This is valid criticism of Clark & it is valid for all of the Candidates

All of the candidates are vague. They have to just in case things change they need room to grow and adapt.

Take Dean for instance. I'm sure in the beginning he thought like all of the other Candidates that money would be hard to find. Thus, he made statements I'm sure he regrets about accepting Federal funds. Well now that he's sittin pretty, he needed wiggle room on the statement and they came up with the vote on the www. That way he can say his supporters wanted him to do it.

I challenge all supporters to reread their candidates policy papers. See if they still say what you thought they said. Compare them to their most recent off the cuff statements, and look for wiggle room (the ability to obtain more than one view point).

They all do it...That's politicts.