Statement from Dean regarding the back condition that kept him from draft

[slinkerwink]

Since some of you are talking about the New York Times article, here is the transcript of the actual question the Governor was asked:

(reporter)rick lyman: Of course, if you really wanted to get in, you could've just not mentioned your back condition, right? I mean, it's not like they were gonna find it in the physical?

governor dean: "I guess that's probably true. I mean, I was in no hurry to get into the military."

And in a statement Dean made today on the piece, he said:

"I was a young man with an unfused vertebrae in my back that had been diagnosed during high school. At the time of my military physical, I presented army doctors with x-rays and a letter from my physician explaining the condition. On that basis, the army determined I was ineligible to serve, classifying me as 1-Y. This injury didn't keep me from leading a normal life, but it did prevent me from serving in the Army. Like many Americans at that time, I was opposed to the war. However, while I did oppose the war, I fulfilled my obligation and I told the truth."

by Mathew Gross http://blog.deanforamerica.com

[RetroLounge]

1. Thank you slinkerwink.

(But the bashers never want to hear the truth...)

THanks for posting this...

[slinkerwink]

2. you're welcome....of course they'll ignore the statement and keep on

spinning.....

[bryant69]

3. That's a very political statement

He said that he opposed the war, but would have served except for his back condition. Hmmmmmm. Covered most of his bases. I don't know why he can't just say, "You know I thought the war was wrong, and I didn't want to fight in it, so I told them about my back condition and was happy I didn't have to go." But I guess that wouldn't fly.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mainer]

12. He said what you just said

>>"You know I thought the war was wrong, and I didn't want to fight in it, so I told them about my back condition and was happy I didn't have to go."<<

Isn't that what he just about said?

[imhotep]

4. he is wrong about one part

The Army would have found out about his condition in a physical exam.
He couldn't have joined even if he wanted to.

[TLM]

134. Yeah they might not have noticed it in the physical...

but they sure as hell would have noticed it in bootcamp after the first 10 mile run in full gear when his back gave out.

[Hep]

6. Told the truth?

Did he tell the doctor how much he likes corporations and hates indians and black people? Did he tell them about how his goal was to infiltrate the D party as a closet libertarian?

DID HE?

DID HE?

;)

[slinkerwink]

8. darn that Dean!!!!

How dare he let his bad back keep him out of joining the Army? He should've joined the army and let his bad back disable him in a Vietnam field, thus endangering other soldiers......Darn that Dean!

[Hep]

10. If he were a real man

he would have sucked it up. People were over there dying left and right, and I didn't hear any of them griping about a bad back.

[slinkerwink]

13. yep, who cares about bad backs ruining a military maneuver?

Dean should've endangered his military unit with his bad back....darn that Dean! Why does he actually go to physicals?

[onebigbadwulf]

14. How can you join

when you're inelligible?

[slinkerwink]

15. it looks like the anti-dean people wanted Dean to join despite his back...

:shrug:

[Scott Lee]

27. AntiDeaners have one wish only - Bush in 2004

Any doubts will disappear when you read their posts continually attacking the only Dem who has a demonstrable chance at throwing out the screeching chimp.

[bearfartinthewoods]

92. just because you guys keep saying this....

"only Dem who has a demonstrable chance at throwing out the screeching chimp."

doesn't make it anymore true today than it was yesterday.

[Hep]

102. No, but it

isn't an indefensible statement. You find fault with someone thinking their guy is the ONLY guy, unless they're talking about YOUR guy?

[Scott Lee]

185. That explains why Dean is still the frontrunner. Thanks.

.

[slinkerwink]

188. yep....man, this is really a baptismal by fire.

With what we've been throwing at Dean so far, he'll be able to withstand the Rovian attacks.

[paulk]

124. polls have consistantly shown

that there are several Democratic candidates capable of unseating Bush.

[Hep]

127. See

this is an argument that I can't defeat with sarcasm. Because it is true, and not beligerent. There ARE several candidates who can beat Bush. And that simple post by Paulk somehow makes me more confident, more up to the fight we face. I feel like Paulk is on my team. I don't even care who he supports.

[Demobrat]

41. He probably could have hidden the condition

long enough to pass the army physical if he wanted to. Damn that Dean for not getting himself shipped off to war and dying for nothing.

[slinkerwink]

45. why, why is Dean even alive to threaten Clark?

Darn that Dean!

[Tom Rinaldo]

150. Or the other way around

passions do run high around DU sometimes lol

[TLM]

138. He could have lied at the physical... and hidden the condition

but he would not have been able to hide it in boot camp...

[DemBones DemBones]

213. You think he couldn't have hidden his "back problem"

in boot camp? He hid it pretty well in Colorado. . .

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[slinkerwink]

48. Hep is a Dean supporter, and he's being sarcastic by impersonating

an anti-Dean supporter. Relax ;-)

[Hep]

52. It's cool

Anyone can take me on like that. It's good.

[FredScuttle]

56. my apologies, Hep

I just get so darned riled by this non-story.

And where is the outcry over AWOL-in-Chief?

[Hep]

59. Don't apologize to me!

You didn't do anything wrong.

[FredScuttle]

64. I wouldn't have made it personal had I known...

but what the hell am I saying....everything's personal!

[Hep]

50. Go get 'em tiger

I declare you officially eligible to stand in the front of the Dean army. You have the anger and the passion that will set this campaign on fire and bring in the big W for the good guys.

And I mean that.

[slinkerwink]

53. yep, it's the passion in us Dean supporters that'll help get W back to TX

:bounce:

[TLM]

137. Yeah he should have been like Kerry

and used connections to get 3 purpple hearts in 4 months for stubed toes and chaped lips, then gotten an administrative transfer out of combat.

[Justice]

212. Elsewhere in this Thread...

you talk about cheap shots against Dean. It is wrong to protest cheap shots against your candidate and then say something like this about Kerry.

If cheap shots are wrong, then they are wrong for every candidate!

[AmericanDem]

26. Wonder why his back wasnt too bad for skiing?

As he has mentioned himself. He took 1 year off to go skiing before attending college. How is it his back wasn't to bad for that. HMMMMMM.

:wtf:

[slinkerwink]

29. As I said before.....

spondolysis is a recurring condition. Skiing doesn't hurt the back as much as it does lugging a 60 pound pack in the military. The military didn't want him, so...........?

[AmericanDem]

38. you have to admit...

That while people like Clark were being shot multiple times in Vietnam, guys like Dean were enjoying themselves with skiing, after getting outa service. It just doesn't come across very well with many folks. I still say :wtf:

[slinkerwink]

40. oh please.......

it's an issue that's being repeated right now in Iraq with soldiers on leave going AWOL because they don't want to die for lies.

[Hep]

42. Tough shit

I'm sure Dean wished he could have been there and gotten shot up with the rest of the boys, but I guess you could say that Kerry and Clark SURVIVING looks pretty bad when you think of all the people who were killed, captured and tortured.

The question is how low are you willing to go to demonize a person?

[AmericanDem]

54. I expect nothing less then these comments.

Its the same pattern seen over and over again when dealing with some Dean supporters. You can't take away what people think and feel about an issue like this.

[Hep]

58. Oh you're so right

because whether or not Dean dodged the draft is such an important topic of conversation given this political climate. Seriously, why are we even talking about this? Why is this a subject in 2004? Because some Dean critic will stop at nothing to demonize Dean? Some people went, some people didn't. I don't believe that people who didn't go should feel guilty because other people went. And I don't think looking down on Dean because he didn't go "FOR LEGITIMATE REASONS" is valid. So why canb't YOU take away what I think and feel about this?

Check yourself. And check my sig.

[slinkerwink]

60. I see you got him...

;-)

[AmericanDem]

66. oh yes

that "Tough Shit" comment is something I jus had to back away from :eyes:

and I did!

[AmericanDem]

70. I checked your posts...

as did many others and like I said you are typical of the behavior seen here by a few Dean supporters.

[Hep]

74. I sure am!

So typical! Which posts did you check in particular?

Because we all know the candidate bashers are really just looking for receptive eyes to read their objective, and well meaning posts.

Does your sampling of my posts include the ones where I openly criticize mistakes made by Dean, where I publicly praise other candidates and promise to vote D no matter what? I sure hope so. I mean, you would never acquire an incomplete sampling of my posts in an effort to paint me as something I'm not, would you? Of course not.

[FredScuttle]

93. AmericanDem, you sound like Bernie Goldberg

Pompous generalizations based on the slightest research

I think the Deanies' behavior is justified here...this is bald attempt by Uncle Karl to smear Dean as soft on defense and the military in a post-9/11 world and if you are a Democrat, no matter who you're supporting, you should be outraged.

edit: "Pompous" sounded much better

[TLM]

142. Notice he can not address the issue of draft dodging

because the attack on Dean over this is baseless. SO instead they attack the supporters for the very act of confronting them with the fact that their attack is baseless.

The typical behavior of Dean supporters to which he referers is obviously that of standing up to bullshit attacks and baseless double standards.

[slinkerwink]

144. thank you for addressing that fact

:toast:

[Hep]

146. You know what's weird and completely unrelated?

When I sat back and looked at the text of your post, the black bar above it turned red. But when I focused on it, it went back to black. I love when that kind of thing happens.

[FredScuttle]

72. WARNING: GOP TALKING POINT AHEAD

"while people like Clark were being shot multiple times in Vietnam, guys like Dean were enjoying themselves with skiing"

This dog, I must say, won't hunt. After Clinton was elected following a campaign where Bush's thugs tried to make him look like Abbie Hoffman, I doubt that "many folks", as you reference, are going to be too upset that Dean was legitimately excused from military service and lived to contribute to society as a public servant.

[Hep]

77. The silver lining

is that hopefully some repugs are reading this and thinking,
"Democrats REALLY care about this Vietnam issue! Let's milk it!"

This could be the biggest trap ever!

[FredScuttle]

98. Repugs read?!!!

:crazy:

[Hep]

104. LOL

I could be wrong!

[AmericanDem]

85. Why would that be a GOP talking point?

Considering Bush's behavior in that regard is very similar with Dean's.

[Hep]

91. It isn't similar at all

The very fact that you say this indicates that you've learned nothing from this thread. You just keep MAKING SHIT UP.

[AmericanDem]

106. No it shows the bubble you chose to live in

This is what many folks think when they read of these details about Dean. What you want to dismiss and except based on your candidate is your choice.

[Hep]

109. So I'm supposed to succumb

to the interpretations of IDIOTS rather than correcting them. You've really got this grassroots campaigning thing down!

[FredScuttle]

AmericanDem, about these "many folks" to whom you refer...

would these be the same folks who voted in the millions for Clinton in '92 (and '96 for that matter) even with the knowledge that he spat on an American flag and pledged allegiance to Ho Chi Minh as a student in London in 1969? (according to GOP talking points, of course)

Or would you be referring to the red-meat, red-state conservatives who wouldn't vote for Dean even if he'd killed 10,000 NVA regulars and won the war single-handedly because he has a "D" after his name? You know, the kind of voter we don't give a fuck about anyway?

[TLM]

152. Notice the slight shift from saying that "Dean is X"

to saying that "many people will think Dean is X"?

Already we see the bashers distancing themselves from their claims. This is such a typical Rove tactic.

Just like with Gore, they spew lie after lie about Gore not telling the truth... then once their accusation on the internet claim and the love canal claim are proven to be BS, they shift to... many people feel Gore isn't honest.

Sad to see so called dems using the same chickenshit tactics on Dean. SHows you they care a hell of a lot more about beating Dean than beating bush... but what do you expect from folks who support a war criminal and war profiteer like Clark?

[FredScuttle]

111. To quote John McEnroe: You Cannot Be Serious!!!

"Bush's behavior in that regard is very similar with Dean's"

excuse me for one second...

:wtf:


How were Dean's actions COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from Bush's? - Dean, rather than have his daddy get him into a cushy National Guard gig, duly showed up for his induction with papers verified by his physician that he had a back condition that would render him ineligible for service. The army reviewed his case and agreed, granting him exemption from service. No defending the plains of Waco from the Vietcong, no bailing out and going AWOL for a year, no ridiculous attempt thirty three years later to playact that he was actually in the service. Dean acted (and continues to act) with dignity, honor and respect...three qualities sorely lacking in the current administration

[Hep]

114. Forgive him

for (I hope to GOD) he knows not what he does.

[slinkerwink]

116. I hope......

[TLM]

147. Not a GOP talking point... it is a CLARK talking point...

Easy to confuse the two given how Clark lied about what party he's in, but this is a cheap shot from Clark's camp and they should take full credit for pushing this cheap shit.

Clark's just another conservative war mongering MIC whore. They want to make this election about who can be the biggest hawk to out hawk the right wingers... all so they can keep the focus on fear and the military.

Does it surprise anybody that this is the shit coming from a former general turned defense contractor lobbyist.

[Justice]

211. The Cheap Shots...

are coming from all directions!

Perhaps it we all stick to the issues, and lay off the cheap shots - we'd have a healthy discussion.

[Hep]

35. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm indeed!

That's what I'm saying. You go, brah!

I mean skiing with a bad back is ike playing pool with a broken toe. Obviously impossible! Dean should be in friggin JAIL right now. Working that bad back on the prison farm. It was his fault vietnam went sour. Hell, I'm gonna go punch him in the mouth right now. Excuse me...

[TLM]

141. Once again the question no dean basher can answer...

How is sking more stressful on the body that bootcamp or combat?



As Dean said, lots of folks have conditions, myself included, which would rule us out of military service, yet does not mean we're crippled or unable to lead a normal active life.

What is so hard to comprehend? He got REJECTED!

[AP]

7. Good statement.

The only thing I'd add to that would be some subtle way of acknowleding that many people were not in a situation like his, economically speaking, and didn't have access to good medical care. They might never have known that they had the same condition. He could say something like, "that's part of the reason I'm running for president -- to even out these disparities in society."

[slinkerwink]

9. looks like he can't please you on every single statement....

for chrissakes, the guy is human.

[AP]

17. You people are IMPOSSIBLE to please. My post was a compliment.

I guess that'll be the last time I try to do that.

[Hep]

20. I appreciate it

But one wouldn't be misjudging you by thinking that even your praise has some criticism in it. It almost seems forced sometimes.

But I do appreciate your comment.

[AP]

117. a little honest criticism with a little honest praise...

...that's what DU should be all about, right?

It can't be all puffery all the time.

[Hep]

120. Dammit, I want puffery!

Nah, you're absolutely right.

[Eloriel]

189. A COMPLIMENT?

Yeah, leave off the complimenting if you can't do any better than the back-handed type.

Some compliment: it was an okay statement, but he didn't go far enough.

That's no compliment at all. That's damning with faint praise, and a dig added in.

Eloriel

[dsc]

86. Thanks

that was gracious.

[AP]

208. It wasn't so much gracious, as it was simply the honest truth.

[TLM]

157. So First off, what planet are you living on

where seeing a doctor in the 60's was something reserved only for the rich?

Most people had access to basic healthcare. Diagnosing a fused disk isn't exactly something that takes a million bucks worth of tests and half a dozen specilists.

Secondly, the induction physical would have probably caught it... they do ask you things like do you have any pain when running, lifting heavy weights etc.

Thridly, even if someone with the condition made it passed the physical without them noticing it, or hid it to get in, the first time they had to do a full pack run for 10 or 15 miles in boot camp, and collapsed with back spasams, they'd sure as hell notice.

So the idea that Dean somehow got the special treatment of privilage that was denied to normal folks is bullshit. The military doesn't want people with bad backs, bad knees, bad hearing etc.

That's why they have the physical at the induction in the first place!

[Fleshdancer]

11. double standard

Why is there a story when a Democrat doesn't serve in the military, but when it's a republican, the story has no legs??? Bush was awol for crying out loud and yet people don't seem to care (other than DU'rs of course).

While I do think Dean was pretty lucky to have an unfused vertebrea as an excuse to get out of going into a war he didn't believe in, atleast he didn't use his family's money or possible family political connections to get him a cushy job that he didn't even show up for.

[phirili]

21. I didn’t have anything to do with choosing any draft deferment

http://www.msnbc.com/news/912159.asp

Snip:
In the winter of 1970, a 21-year-old student from Yale walked into his armed services physical in New York carrying X-rays and a letter from his orthopedist, eager to know whether a back condition might keep him out of the military draft.

Snip:
So, he came to his physical armed with X-rays and a letter from his orthopedist.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/22/politics/campaigns/22DRAF.html?hp

[TLM]

162. And? Aren't you supposed to take your records to the induction...

...when you have a pre-existing condition?

[Hep]

166. No!

You're suppoesd to keep doctors in the dark about any preexisting condition you might have. It's not the responsibility of any doctor to have all the necessary information when determining whether or not a person is capable of going to battle.

[Woodstock]

181. Dean went on to become a doctor - could it be

that even then, before he knew he would become one, he thought things like fused vertebraes and x-rays were extremely important?

If he had diabetes, should he have not told them? If he had epiliepsy, should he have not told them? Where is the list of "proper Drudge approved medical conditions NOT to tell the draft board about"?

What do you want, for him to deliberately destroy his body without a fighting chance? Would you do that to someone else? Why should he have done it to himself?

I find it extremely disappointing that other Democrats here are jumping on him for this reason. I'm not a big fan of some of the other candidates, but if the Republicans came at them with something absurd like this, I'd come to the Democratic candidate's defense - even if it was Lieberman.

[slinkerwink]

191. thank you for that....

thanks.:hi:

[rumguy]

22. Does this story have legs in the national media?

I'm away from cable for the weekend...is it getting play on the cable news channels or anywhere else for that matter?

[slinkerwink]

23. it was mentioned on msnbc

It's an old issue that's being brought up by Rove....because Dean's going to air that ad in opposition to the RNC ad.

[KoKo]

103. So, how many here are ready to sign up and go to Iraq? Hmmmm!

Can't wait to see you sign up and go serve your country over there. Maybe you would want to see the draft come back? Just like it was with Viet Nam? You think you could make the Draft fair, so that "everyone's son and daughter would go with no deferrments?

You've got to be kidding. It would be the exact same as it was before.

[Hep]

107. I'm posting from Iraq

Yep, me and some of the "insurgents" are laughing at the horrible portrayal of the war by the American media. We just got done playing XBox, and we're getting ready to go out scamming chicks.

Things in Iraq are going incredibly well. It's perfectly justified for Americans to be fixated on "that DEEEEEN guy" as my Republican Guard friends call him, and his weaseling out of vietnam with an Xray that had suspicious sharpie marks all over it.

[slinkerwink]

108. not me because I'm deaf, so therefore I'm disqualified...

I'm glad that if the draft comes back into play, that I'll be disqualified because I sure as hell don't want to die for corporations.

[Hep]

110. You'd better not sink so low as to go skiing.

Being deaf and all, or you'll never get to be president!

[slinkerwink]

113. *gasp* I snowboard also----darn, there goes the Presidency!

:cry:

[FredScuttle]

122. I'm gay

oops! I told! Silly me!

[Hep]

126. No skiing for you.

n/t

[Frederic Bastiat]

16. He was healthy enough to go downhill skiing

That alone speaks volumes.

[slinkerwink]

18. many people with bad backs can go skiing

but on days, the pain can stop them from doing that---it's a lifetime recurring condition.

[Hep]

24. Stop it

Seriously, why must you make excuses for the man? Every moment he spent enjoying himself while our boys were over there daying is an eternity he should spend in hell.

[rumguy]

30. Simmer down now!

you really think Dean should spend multiple eternities in hell?

[slinkerwink]

32. Hep's being sarcastic by pretending to be a Dean basher....

;-)

[rumguy]

33. ah..I was wondering....

[slinkerwink]

36. it's okay...

:pals:

[Hep]

39. Sorry.

Usually I shoot off a PM to a Deaniac who takes me on when I play their game so as not to offend. But now my secret is out!

It's a fun game. I mean, it so easy to bash Dean when you can make up whatever idiotic shit you can dream of and use it against him. Like how bush hiked across Vermont, STOMPING SPOOTED OWLS! Look at the evil grin on his face! Why don't they show his feet? Because he's standing on orphaned children!

[rumguy]

47. that's a good pic of dean...

and you're right, if he can hold a guitar d*amn it, he could have held a gun!!!

[slinkerwink]

49. lol, now you're getting into the act

:hi-fives:

[rumguy]

67. :hi-fives: back at ya slink

[Lars39]

51. I was beginning to really wonder about you, HEP! Or me.

I can usually catch the more subtle stuff, but you were getting off the chart! :)

[retyred]

62. WOW, the guys

almost bald, should've picked up some moss to put on that if they were going to take his picture.


retyred in fla
“good night paul, wherever you are”
read the book

[Hep]

68. Hell yeah!

Because Dog knows we're trying to promote the notion that Hair makes the man. And rightly so!

Dean's first order of business will be to enact an executive order calling for hair implants for every hairless or hair challenged person in America, because that's what's REALLY important.

[Hep]

37. Oh yes

Well, not really. I think he should get six eternities in hell and every single one of those morans who support him, poor brainwashed assholes, should get four.

[AP]

25. It's not the physical act of skiing that's damaging. It's the symbolism

of having gone to Aspen. But he did pour concrete while he was there, so it's almost a wash. But then he went into the family business afterwards, which is bad. But then he carpet-bagged off to VT, which is mostly good, but a little bad.

It's all symbols, and Dean has some good symbols and some bad symbols in his his past.

If he were the only guy running for the Democrats, you'd definitely accentuatet the positive.

If there were other options, you might want to think about you choices.

[Hep]

Symbols

This particular symbol is nothing. I mean, you're right, it will be used as a sound bite. But nothing Bush can say about Dean skiing will do more damage than showing bush in a flight suit and talking about that missing year of military service. So be it. Let them throw down the gauntlet.

[NashVegas]

204. Pouring Cement

As in lifting the bucket, or holding the chute it travels down?

[AP]

209. Symbolism matters. these details don't matter at all.

If you're in a debate over whether he lifted the bucket or holding a chute, you've lost the debate.

[Hep]

210. good point

n/t

[Scott Lee]

187. Dang it slinkerwink! Stop smashing their arguments!

You cruel woman you!

:)

[slinkerwink]

192. oh, I'm sorry! I don't mean to do it!!!

I'm just a 21 year old kid....who knows nothing about the world and likes to drink beer and watch bad scifi movies. ;-)

[Hep]

19. Yeah, what a selfish bastard

Man you're so right. If I were Dean, I would have bought a one way ticket to Viet Nam and fought the commie gooks freelance. I sure as hell wouldn't stoop so low as to spend a single minute after my deferment ENJOYING MYSELF. Selfish prick. He should have sat in his room and stared at the walls out of shame for not going to viet nam.

Man I'm so glad you posted that. These moronic Dean supporters obviously don't know whay TRUE patriotism is.

[slinkerwink]

28. Darn that Dean!!!!

How dare he try to enjoy his life with a bad back? He should just sit there and not try to play hockey with his kids or go skiing.....darn that Dean!!!

[Hep]

31. Look at your damn picture

He obviously is in good enbough shape to STAND and HOLD A GUITAR. You're telling me that guitar couldn't have been a gun? You telling me his standing there couldn't have been in fatigues and a 50 # pack? He can jump on the back of a moving truck, but he can't engage in jungle warfare? He was probably having sex with the military doctor who deferred him.

[slinkerwink]

34. yep, that's right, Dean is a militant homosexual with a guitar fetish!!!

:nuke: I swear, it just makes me so angry....

[Hep]

43. You see how it works?

They completely shut up when they can't match you deranged fantasy by deranged fantasy.

[slinkerwink]

44. yep......

sarcasm's the best tool out there.

[Hep]

55. I do believe

the bashers have vacated the thread. Now we take it to the streets!

[slinkerwink]

57. wait.....you missed one basher upthread.....

let's go make him suffer under our sarcasm! ;-)

[Q]

61. Wowie! This is MUCH MORE interesting than...

...how the Bush* administration is obstructing the 9-11 investigation.

[Hep]

71. We have to pick our battles!

Some people care about an administration of fascist intellectuals undermining everything we hold dear, and some people really feel strongly about vertibrae fusion or the lack thereof. Who am I to prioritize for everyone?

;)

[slinkerwink]

75. yep, it's all about how baby's got back!

;-)

[AmericanDem]

81. yes it is

The million dollar ticket that got Dean outa service to enjoy a life of leisure and fun.

[Hep]

82. Damn him for that

I wish everyone could be born with a congenital back problem so that they too can get out of a pointless war. Then we could all live lives of leisure and fun and there would be no war.

*sigh*

[AmericanDem]

89. and you are such a great spokesman for Dean

Heck this kind of behavior is becoming very well known. Keep up the ummmm good work.:silly:

[Name removed]

97. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AmericanDem]

76. get a load of this kiddie behavior!

I sit back and imagine kids approx. 21 yrs of age having visions of greatness about themselves.

If I'm wrong and they are actually older? OH MY!

[slinkerwink]

78. oh...

:nopity:

[Hep]

80. It's a guaranteed hunt

You know, where you pay enough money and they promise you'll get a deer?

Well, this primary started out being about 9 candidates. Then, it became about Dean. Now, at least here, it's about US. Every post they make whining about our attitude is a post where they don't make shit up about Dean. I consider that a great success.

[slinkerwink]

84. yep, I'm sick of them making up shit about Dean.....

[AmericanDem]

96. what are "THEY" making up?

explain

[Hep]

100. They? What are YOU making up?

Let's see, from this very thread. Deans not serving and W's not serving are similar. Now THAT'S some made up shit right there.

[Scott Lee]

190. All the wordsmithing, speculation and mind reading

committed by the ADJHS (AntiDean Junior High School). It's all over DU. If Dean says "good morning", you can bet that a thread will soon appear showing Dean to be a "liar" because 15 years ago he groused about a rainy morning in Vermont.

It's all so transparent. Can't you think of anything positive to do with all that energy, other than try and take DOWN the Democratic candidate with the most demonstrable support to take down the Chimp?

Think you can do that?

[slinkerwink]

207. ha, I'm not sure they can do that since they only want THEIR candidate

to get nominated and if Dean gets the nomination, they'll bitch and moan...

[AmericanDem]

94. and when your lil bubble pops

You will finally see the real world around you.

[slinkerwink]

101. I already live in the real world, but what alternate reality are you in???

Inquiring minds have a right to know.....by the way, Dean eats kitten fetuses and kicks dogs for a living!

[Hep]

115. And sometimes

just for fun he kicks the kitten fetuses and eats the dogs.

[slinkerwink]

118. nooooo!!! That can't be true because....

Dean eats both kitten and puppy fetuses and kicks the adult cats and dogs around!

[Name removed]

112. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TLM]

176. Note again that rather than address the point you raised...

or defend his bushit attack on Dean... he chooses to attack you personaly for the way in which you pointed out how full of crap his claim is.

[Hep]

79. Oh Your!

Nothing great about me. Just an average guy. But I've taken the Dean bashers completely out of their game. Because while they are dedicated, they aren't very creative. It's the lord's work!

[FredScuttle]

63. don't forget....

he was using the time he could have been serving in Vietnam to perform abortions for single mothers on welfare

(I think I'm getting the spirit of this....?)

[slinkerwink]

65. lol, and Dean actually used the time to go on a farm to work with migrants

in Florida......darn that Dean!

[FredScuttle]

87. Actually, Dean made his way to Texas...

he picked up the dope shipment that Wyatt and Billy from "Easy Rider" were transporting before they got wasted and rode shotgun with Tommy Chong. As they travelled through Texas, they were intercepted by Air Capt. Marshal George W. Bush and his squadron, the "Flying Leathernecks"

darn that Dean!

[slinkerwink]

202. lol, definitely Darn that Dean!!!

I'm in the Darn that Dean group......

[Hep]

83. BABY KILLER

You are so right!

[TLM]

172. Yes it does speak volumes....

about the sleazy depths to which Clark supporters will sink to try and bash Dean.


Anybody else noticing that Clark Corps are trying very hard to maintain the Bush administration's climate of militarism and fear mongering, to make this election all about who is the bigger hawk? They don't seem to have any interest in stopping what Bush is doing, rather they simply want Clark to replace him as the one doing it.

Does it make anybody else sick to see supposed democrats braying out this "draft dodger" shit? That alone speaks volumes about which side these pukes are really on.

[slinkerwink]

194. yep, sure does speak volumes to a deaf woman like me....

[Eloriel]

193. I would think of ALL sports, skiing is the least stressful to the back

I mean there you are, standing (and leaning) on skis while gravity does its work for you, and you push and pivot a bit. Not very much stress to the back at all -- esp. in the neck area where I think his problem is (C-whatevers).

Eloriel

[Rowdyboy]

69. I was 18 in 1972...

They started the lottery in 1971. When it was held in 1972 the entire male freshman college class was absolutely terrified. A lot of people were drinking, smoking and just generally trying to avoid reality. I pulled a 312 or some HIGH number which left me free and clear. Had I drawn a low number, I would have used ever medical debility imaginable to avoid going. Too many people died for nothing.

There is nothing wrong with being unable to pass military medical requirements. Now how that will be spun by the BFEE masters is a different matter. Wish Dean had spent that year working with minority kids or in the Peace Corps-and I bet he does too.

If I were Dean, and it came up in a debate with Bush I'd respond: "Here's my medical deferment Mr. Bush...Where were you stationed during your 18 month enlistment in the Alabama national guard? Give us dates, names of commanders and units you served in."

[slinkerwink]

73. that'd be fun to see!

Besides, Dean was 21 at the time--I'll concede going skiing wasn't the wisest idea, but I'm 21 myself so I've done a few dumb things...

[rumguy]

88. What's the story on Dean's skiing?

I know he was in Colorado. How long was he there? Did he work during that time, etc.? I'm just curious.

[slinkerwink]

105. I think he was a ski bum for a year....

and I think he did work by pouring concrete there. Those aren't things that harms one's back in comparison to sitting still and carrying a 60 lb pack does.

[Hep]

119. As far as I know he

took time off after school and skied. I mean, I don't know how much time he spent on the slopes how long he was there. But he did what I wish I could have done.I don't know which resorts or which slopes. I don't think he worked at that time.

[AmericanDem]

99. awww you are 21yrs

Thought so. As I have written further upthread.

[Hep]

121. And that matters!

You really have your finger on the pulse of what's important.

[TLM]

178. It matters Hep, because personal attacks are all he's got left

because some smart ass 21 year old blew his whole f-ing argument out of the water.

[slinkerwink]

186. lol, which smartass 21 year old?

;-)

[FredScuttle]

132. Hey AmericanDem, I'm 32...

do I make your Maturity Cutoff age limit?

As if 21 year old people don't have anything to contribute...for shame.


I'm still waiting for you to respond how Clinton was elected twice after the GOP tried to smear him with the "draft dodger" issue.

[AmericanDem]

149. good luck to ya

You can continue to wait for the recess bell.

[Hep]

158. The sweet smell of victory

Thanks for playing.

[AmericanDem]

164. ummmmm OK

now go clean your room and take out the trash.

[Hep]

167. Good one!

Look what we've reduced you to.

[slinkerwink]

171. lol....

:bounce:

[Hep]

90. He did do his share of labor though

He learned spanish working with migrant workers in Florida. He got paid a ridiculously low amount. It was far from some character-free middle class job. Yeah, he took the time to enjoy himself, but it isn't like he avoided any contact with people of different socio-economic backgrounds. Does that make sense? I feel like he's paid his dues.

[TLM]

177. Exactly... if bush makes this an issue all Dean has to say is

I went to my induction and was classified Y1... I was never AWOL, can you say the same, MR. Bush?

[madfloridian]

95. My father was rejected for the WWII draft.

He did not meet the conditions for active service. He was able to do other things, able to lead an active life.

Applying these same criteria that a few are, he would be considered a draft dodger...I guess.

Now doesn't that sound silly?

I really like Dean's answer. It was good answer. There was not one person I knew who wanted to go to Vietnam. Anyone who could was getting out of it.

[Hep]

123. It's so easy for us

To look back and apply arbitrary standards to the service in the viet nam conflict. As if it wasn't a complex and painful time in our history. People feel like they can toss around these mean spirited and unfair accusations, but how many of THEM served, or would have? How many of THEM even know what Dean's injury is? It is just so damned easy to be an asshole.

[Tatiana]

125. It's a mistake to keep perpetuating this NON-issue.

He had an unfused vertebrae.

End of subject.

Why was Selection 2000 so close when we knew how STUPID Dumbya was?

Because he made all the VALID charges against him non-issues. His lack of service, his lack of intellectualism, his lack of business acumen... he just brushed them off.

I see this NON-VALID charge (that Dean "dodged the draft") in the same way. It's not important and we shouldn't let the rightwingers make it important. He reported for his physical. He had an unfused vertebrae. He was not physically capable of serving. The end.

Now can we put the focus back on important issues such as Medicare, our energy policy, education, and foreign policy?

[Hep]

129. But, but

we don't know as much about policy as we do about how strangers will react to a person getting deferred going skiing. We have to stay within our element.

[Tatiana]

133. You know what... I am so SICK of this bull$hit!

Our element should be POLICY. These personal attacks are really wearing on me.

[Hep]

135. You and me both

The only way I can cope is by turning it into comedy.

[madfloridian]

139. I know what you mean.

This is Democratic board and we are killing each other here.

[Tatiana]

140. The REPUBLICANS are our enemy.

Bush is America's enemy.

We shouldn't be smearing or attacking ANYONE who dares to stand up to Bush or the Republicans.

Should we question policy issues or differences? Of course! But this eating of our own is senseless and not productive.

Dean is one of our own, whether some like it or not. Questioning his policy is fair. Questioning his "patriotism" is not. That's what Repukes do.

[madfloridian]

143. From an avid Dean supporter, I agree.

But that is what is going on, and it goes on all the time.

[Rowdyboy]

151. From an avid Clark supporter

I agree with you all. Its sickeing. We're doing the Republicans job for them.

[slinkerwink]

160. *sigh * know.....sucks sometimes

I just hope those people will help support Dean or Clark if they get the nomination.

[rumguy]

128. What exactly is an unfused vertebrae?

Some on here once said that's why he sometimes appears "stiff" in public appearances. Is that true?

[Hep]

130. A link:

http://www.spinaldisorders.com/spondylosis.htm

[slinkerwink]

131. yes, that's true...

it's hard for Dean to sit in a chair comfortably because sometimes the back pain rears its head.

[Hep]

136. I have back problems of my own

nothing like Dean has. But I can tell you, on my worst day, I'd rather be at a ski resport than in my office.

[phirili]

145. Dean back disorder makes it difficult for him to close his mouth naturally

[Hep]

148. Yeah!

Look at the pain he's in:

[phirili]

155. I wonder where Dean got his back medical from

[Hep]

159. His back medical?

I wonder what a back medical is.

[rumguy]

154. wow

so how does he close his mouth?

[Hep]

161. Wires

He has a wire connected to his jaw that pulls it closed when he flexes his big toe muscle. It's quite ingenious!

[slinkerwink]

179. really? now that explains it all...

[slinkerwink]

180. really? now that explains it all...

[leesa]

153. We're still waiting for the statement from the First Cheerleader about

the reason he went AWOL during a time of war, aren't we?

[phirili]

156. Never saw him close his mouth like that on TV. Picture may be Doctored

[Hep]

163. Oh it must be!

Because if it isn't on TV it isn't real.

Thanks so much for your valuable contribution to the thread!

[slinkerwink]

165. yep, we're all doubting thomases----therefore we have to see to believe!

[Hep]

168. Look at the pic in your sig!

His mouth is closed! EEK!

Next talking point, DEAN LIES ABOUT BEING ABLE TO PLAY Cm7 CHORD!

[slinkerwink]

173. omg, and that's not a guitar that Dean's holding either.....

it's a AK-47!!!!

[phirili]

169. Slinkerwink picture shows how Dean keeps his mouth shut

[slinkerwink]

170. BREAKING NEWS.....

It's being revealed on MSNBC that Howard Dean actually ate the left hind leg of his cat, Katie, which explains why she only has three legs........oops, we're wrong---it turns out that poor cat lost her leg to cancer, so Howard Dean doesn't eat cats after all...

[Hep]

174. For Dean

cancer is a condiment. It was just lucky that he didn't have to cut off the leg for no reason.

[slinkerwink]

175. rotflmao.....

oh god, that's the best sarcastic post up in here...

[phirili]

182. See picture of Dean

[Hep]

183. I suppose

more people should address crowds without opening their mouths.

HE's a handsome devil.

[slinkerwink]

184. that he is!

I'd have sex with Dean if I was 50, but nah.....but he is cute! :-)

[phirili]

195. Picture of Dean trying to close his mouth

[Hep]

196. Good post

Dean trying to close his mouth looks startlingly like a red x with a box around it.

Your creativity knows no bounds.

[slinkerwink]

198. lol....how funny.

:hi-fives:

[phirili]

197. Dean manages to purse his lips in an effort to close his mouth

[Hep]

199. Uh

That's the same pic you posted before. It's called PREVIEW. Look into it!

[Scott Lee]

200. Yeah, make fun of Dean's mouth! That'll put Kerry in the lead!

LOL!! Honest to gods, you kids at ADJHS just have us rollin' in the aisles today.

[slinkerwink]

201. lol.....Kerry in the lead? As if!

;-)

[slinkerwink]

203. :kick:

:kick:

[slinkerwink]

205. :kick for those silly dean bashers:

;-)

[DemBones DemBones]

206. Ironic that the NY Times chose November 22 to run this, since JFK

ALSO had a bad back. He was, in fact, turned down by the Army during WW II, so his father pulled some strings to get him in the Navy.

Once in the Navy, of course, Kennedy captained a PT boat ("PT 109," a book and a movie), saved a number of sailors' lives, was decorated for heroism.