Dean gets busted in Gephardt ad.

[Renew Deal]

http://www.dickgephardt2004.com/plugin/template/gephardt/232/*

Dean (double) speaks for himself. Finally someone challenges him on it.

[Liberal Veteran]

1. Personally, I am getting tired of candidates attacking each other.

Regardless of their competition, they are on the same side.

[Renew Deal]

2. So Gep shouldn't defend himself?

Or point out Deans double talk.

[Liberal Veteran]

5. Don't presume to put words in my mouth, please.

I am quite capable of speaking for myself, thank you very much.

I merely made a statement that I am tired of our candidates attacking each other when we are all supposed to be on the same side.

[Renew Deal]

8. I agree to that.

:pals:

[AP]

83. That was a question. It wasn't 'putting words IN your mouth." It was...

...asking for words to come OUT of your mouth.

[onebigbadwulf]

3. I dont get the double speak

Care to explain?

[Renew Deal]

6. Did you watch the video?

It speaks for itself. It's all Dean. There is someone introducing it and a comment by Gep in the end. Otherwise it's Dean speaking for himself.

[bearfartinthewoods]

10. i can't 'stream" what does it say?

[Renew Deal]

12. It says...

It is a video of Dean saying he would vote for the $87 billion. Then it's a video of Dean saying he wouldn't politicize other peoples votes. That has obviously changed.

[bearfartinthewoods]

71. thanks

[onebigbadwulf]

13. All i picked up was

That looks clearly out of context to me.

Dean clarifies the question by saying "On the 87 billion?" which leads me to think this was a multiple part question.

[Hep]

17. You can tell

because they had to edit it really quickly.

[Hep]

15. Really?

I mean, you did WATCH the ad right? Gep says a few words and a narrator says some words. Or maybe you meant no one else said ONE word, which is true, but then neither did Dean.

[slinkerwink]

4. http://www.dickfacts.com

go to http://www.dickfacts.com

[Renew Deal]

7. What does that have to do with this video.

How about addressing the issue as opposed to being a rapid response apologist.

[slinkerwink]

11. well....it's hypocritical for Gephardt to criticize Dean on the 87 billion

since Geppy voted to go to war.....

[Renew Deal]

14. What does one have to do with the other?

Are you admitting that Dean isn't doing and saying what he did and said.

[Kahuna]

37. Is this a "Who's on first," routine?

:crazy:

[Hep]

9. Good job!

Jeremy Falcone is a friend of mine. He did a great job on Gep's underhanded tactics.

[Cha]

16. "dick" facts indeed!

Very interesting, slinkerwink;-)

[tsipple]

56. I Love the Integrity Study

Click here to see it. Funny and clever!

[Sean Reynolds]

18. The difference between Gep's ad and Dean's.

Gephardt calls him a liar, while Dean just calls him wrong. Dean may have mispoke on the 87 billion, but when it came down to it he didn't support it; Gephardt did.

[Renew Deal]

22. So is Dean a liar

or just confused?

[Hep]

25. It's kinda hard to say

when all you have to go by is carefully extracted sound bites totalling roughly 10 seconds in length, wouldn't you say?

Unless of course the ad just serves to confirm what you're already convinced of. In that case, who needs facts at all?

[Renew Deal]

34. So I know your candidate better than you do?

I think you might need to learn more about Dean. You may not support him when you are done.

[Hep]

38. LOL

Yes, you're a genius and everyone who supports Dean is an idiot. And the source of your genius? Ten seconds of video. You're so on point. Dean is such an evil man. Actually, by checking your record, Dean is more of a bad guy than Clark is a good guy, since like the rest of the "critics", you spend more time on Dean than you do on your own guy.

[Renew Deal]

43. My record?

Oh boy... OK, I don't agree about where I spend my time but that's OK. You have 9 posts in the Clark pragmatism thread. I don't even know how many you have in the Clark Letterman thread. We both are involved with this. You are no angel either and I don't fault you for that. I never meant to imply that Dean supporters are idiots. I do think they are wrong, but it's not something I focus on.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sean Reynolds]

42. I didn't call Dean a liar, Gep did.

Forgetting the fact that Gephardt has 'lied' in the past too. Gasp, good to know Gephardt hasn't EVER gone back on something he's said.

[SahaleArm]

72. No Gephardt didn't say a damn thing about Dean.

That ad was Howard Dean in his own words; double-talk and all.

[sendero]

78. better a liar...

... than a Rose Garden traitor.

[mrgorth]

79. Lets get this straight

Dean said the war was wrong. Now that we're in there we need a way out. Howard Dean said that if Bush was willing to take some of the $87 billion out of his tax cuts he would support it and so would I. This is the right thing and in NO WAY contradicts any of his positions.

[madfloridian]

19. Gephardt stood in the Rose Garden side by side with Bush.

n/t

But, you say, you're a Dean Lover....address the issues, quit hiding from the issues. You will say watch the video. I am sure if Gephardt made it against Dean that it is not nice.

Gep helped Bush with the war resolution. He was for the war, he stood with him.

He can not blame Dean for that.

[Renew Deal]

20. He is not blaming Dean for that.

Dean speaks for himself.

[onebigbadwulf]

29. If we could see the whole clip

That would make this much easier to decipher.


But from Dean's reaction "On the 87 billion?" it makes me that think his attack was geared toward Gep supporting the war in the first place and making the 87 a blank check full of no-bids.

[Renew Deal]

32. It's not related to that.

It's all about the $87 Bil. and Dean saying he wouldn't politicize it which he did.

[onebigbadwulf]

51. What do you mean politicizing?

He was asked a question and answered simply

[Renew Deal]

66. Right

I agree. Are you saying that he doesn't mean what he says?

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[moz4prez]

28. yes but it's well within his rights

to blame Dean for daring to bring it up!

the nerve!

[Scott Lee]

21. Why don't you give it a rest?

You and the rest of ADJHS need to take an early summer vacation on the Dean bashing. Why don't you get behind the positive stuff your guy does (if he does any at all) and stop trying to build him up by tearing others down.

Oh, and you might want to stop helping the GOP too, thanks.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hep]

27. LOL

You would never say anything critical of Dean. He's your guy, right?

Look, say what you want, but please don't fake objectivity. It really is kind of insulting.

[Renew Deal]

31. Critical is not bashing.

I am not faking objectivity. The ads speak for themselves. Watch Deans ad and watch Geps ad. You let me know what you think. Dean got nailed. He is playing with words again. It's not my fault. It's too bad you feel insulted. :cry:

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Renew Deal]

39. I am willing...

because Dean did double speak and I am waiting for someone to acknowledge it. I have seen you in the Clark threads. You are a willing participant there too. Here is why I don't think it's a slam. Even if you don't agree on the first part of the video...that's OK. But Dean says that he wouldn't politicize it in the second. That's what really annoys me. That I hadn't seen before.

[Hep]

44. This dog won't hunt

No doublespeak, sorry. You fali to prove your point. It has been explained and you have ignored it. Bottom line, you look bad. Or shall I say worse.

I never saw hte source video for the second comment. I refuse freebase information like that. Like I said, I won't go that low. If you have a transcript or a longer video file, I'd like to see it.

You hadn't seen it before, as you admit, yet you take it on face value. That's so fucked up I can't even begin to express it. Your disdain for Dean has led you to give up on the most basic tenets of objectivity. You should really think about fixing that.

And I'll say that I don't like Dean's ad about Gep. I don't like it at all.

[Renew Deal]

47. Why

are you worried about how I look? I don't have a transcript. This just popped. How can you criticize me if you haven't seen that ad. All I am saying is post the Dean ad and let's compare.

[Hep]

49. I'm not worried about how you look

YOU should be. It's your integrity. Neither of us have ever seen the video from which the second clip was taken. It isn't about Dean's ad. It is about the context of Dean's quote. That you don't understand that is baffling.

[onebigbadwulf]

33. Yeah

step 1. stop having your guy sign documents with opponent

step 2. stop having your guy support republican agendas

step 3. air ads about candidate so people know who he is

step 4. (then and only then) point out other opponents' flaws

[Renew Deal]

35. Remember,

Dean started this whole thing by putting out his ad. Gep's is only a response.

[w4rma]

69. Not really. Gep has been attacking Dean on out of context, decade old

medicare quotes for the past 2 months.

[SahaleArm]

73. That's a joke.

10 years ago he made a quote and didn't care to change it until his run for the presidency, politics of convenience at it's finest.

[Hep]

74. And gep

should be the last one bringing it up. How long has it been since Gep voted with republicans 85% of the time?

[Julien Sorel]

53. When words like these come from a Deanite,

it's like a free night at the Improv. Too funny.

Cockroaches. Republican 25 days ago. Bush Lite. The only candidate who talks about race issues to white people. The only candidate who opposed the war.

And that's a short list, and it's just Whoreard himself. When we go into the insane conspiracy theories of Whoreard's demented followers, we see just which camp is interested in 'building up its candidate by tearing others down.' What a gang of hypocrites.

[Clark Can WIN]

81. Can I get an AMEN? Thankyou brother Billy!

Few things are more disturbing than the cult of Howard.

http://a52.g.akamaitech.net/f/52/827/1d/www.space.com/images/v_howard_duck_01,1.jpg

[rumguy]

23. Ol' Gep cut a deal with Bush behind our backs

to get Bush his resolution.

He can't claim any purity on this issue...not ol' geppy...

[Scott Lee]

52. Behind our backs? HELL, he did it in front of our FACES

Right there in the Rose Garden. Shoulder to shoulder with the Warchimp, and signed onto his war. Thanks alot, Gep. The families of hundreds of dead soldiers, and thousands of dead Iraqi civilians, salute you!

[quaker bill]

26. Dean stated clearly in the debates

That he would support the 87 billion, if the Bush* tax cut was rolled back 87 billion dollars. He said if Bush* actually supports the troops he will ask the richest 1 percent to share in the sacrifice rather than charge it to our childrens account.

Apparently Gep had no problem putting this tab on my kids credit card and is even proud that he did.

[Renew Deal]

30. Did you see Dean's ad?

He said he doesn't support the $87 Billiion. That's not totally true and this ad shows it.

[Hep]

41. BULLSHIT

Again! Seriously, why do you knowingly mislead? What does that get you?

Dean was against the appropriations bill. He was for the 87 million if it came from the tax cut repeal. It's right there in the commercial. I guess Gep's people couldn't edit it out without looking obvious, not they they didn't try.

The really odd thing about this is that the end result of this thread will be that you have come across as someone who doesn't understand complex concepts or nuance. Why would you want to do that to yourself?

[Renew Deal]

45. I get it.

I get the nuance. What I am sayting is that that's not how Dean portrays himself. Like I said. Find the Dean ad. Let's compare.

[Hep]

48. You don't know the first thing about how Dean portrays himself.

All you do is go by critical media accounts and what your Clark cronies tell you. Have you ever been to a speech or a meetup?

[Renew Deal]

65. Speech no, Meetup Yes.

What do you mean I don't know about Dean. I follow him almost as closely as Clark. I know what he says better than most of his supporters. I actually pay attention to Dean. That's why I think he might be OK for VP. I also think that Dean is a different candidate to different people. He has changed positions on almost every issue. He says one thing, then does another (watch the video). He says he will not attack any candidate for the $87 bil vote and then does it. I am not impressed with his double speak.

[Hep]

80. harumph

What do you mean I don't know about Dean. I follow him almost as closely as Clark.

Heh. Yeah, right. You follow him almost as closely, but not nearly the same way.

I guess those researchers at Berkeley were wrong. Liberals are just as turned off by nuance as conservatives. You're still claiming Dean engaged in double speak, even after being cleared up on it.

It isn't the Dean criticism that gets to me, it's the FAKE objectivity.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kahuna]

50. That's a really lame ad. I don't like Dean as everyone knows...

But that ad was so lame, I don't see how it served it's purpose.

[Julien Sorel]

55. It plays well in Iowa, where Dean is running ads and giving

speeches attacking Gephardt for supporting the war and voting for the 87 billion dollars. It makes Dean look even more shifty, while trying to reinforce Gep as a a standup guy. Remember, this is Iowa, where being a real plain talker is appreciated. Dean's teflon is flaking away from the assault of his constant flip-flops and politically expedient policy shifts and tactical decisions, and Gep is highlighting it. Gep knows these people, having campaigned among them for almost two decades now. The ads essentially call Dean a hypocrite in a nice way, which is probably the best way of getting your message across right now. For what they were, I think they were pretty good. The Iowa voters will decide, of course, how good they were in the end.

I'm starting to like Gephardt more and more as this campaign goes on.

[Hep]

59. Dean the evil bastard gets what he deserves!

Because if it hurts the guy I hate, it's gotta be on point!

[Julien Sorel]

67. So since you have no substantive comment to make,

I take it you agree with what I said (or else you would have disagreeed), but are simply unhappy that I said it, because it casts your guy in a bad light?

[Hep]

82. Pot, meet kettle.

You invented irony? I had no idea!

[DrFunkenstein]

57. Dean Apologists In Full Effect, Boy-ee!!

It's interesting that no matter what the issue is, the Dean people run back to the IWR. It's as if - hmmmm - they have nothing else going for them. Well, at least nothing that would actually affect a Dean presidency. What's funniest, though, is that the Dean people - all acknowledged political junkies, now can't seem to remember what Dean said at the New York debate (as if they forgot how to look up a transcript).

I wonder if we should bother making a timeline of Dean's statements on whether we should reduce troop levels, increase them, or maintain them.

Dean's position was (again) the same as Kerry's, except that Dean also says he won't politicize the vote. Kind of like he warned people about backing out of public financing, then broke history and backed out himself. It's called "say one thing, do the other."

Character matters.

[Hep]

60. Character matters?

Do you REALLY believe that? Character of candidates or of everyone?

[Scott Lee]

61. you mean "Frontrunner Dean"....boyeeee

.

[SahaleArm]

75. Thanks for proving DrFunkenstein correct.

Another one trick pony.

[Scott Lee]

84. Dean's IWR position was the same as Kerry's? LOL!!

I'm sure you and he wished it were so at this juncture, but just to remind you; Dean opposed this war under the circumstances that created it. Kerry did not. Given Dean's statements on the subject, had he been in Congress at the time he definitely would not have voted for IWR. Kerry did.

Facts. They aren't just for breakfast anymore.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Scott Lee]

62. I'm telling you, you can set your watch by this shit!

Amazing isnt it? ADJHS is outdoing itself today!

[IndianaGreen]

63. Here is all you need to know about Gephardt

This is all you need to know about Gephardt, he is a slimebag:

President, House Leadership Agree on Iraq Resolution



President George W. Bush along with bipartisan leaders from the House and Senate announced the Joint Resolution to authorize the use of the United States Armed Forces against Iraq. "The statement of support from the Congress will show to friend and enemy alike the resolve of the United States," President Bush said during the announcement in the Rose Garden, Wednesday, October 2, 2002. White House photo by Paul Morse.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021002-7.html

[Cha]

64. Thanks for bringing this reminder

on again. gep should have put a wee bit more thought into this before he signed on to the bush team with that rose garden photo op.

[Gringo]

68. Would that be the Dick Gephardt that voted for the GOP medicare

privatization scam? That missed the previous vote on overtime rules? That not only voted to authorize Bush's war, but MADE A POINT OF being there with him in the rose garden, smiling and shaking hands with the SOB as he signed THE DEATH WARRANT of 400+ of our men and countless Iraqis?

I'm not very interested in what that Dcik has to say at all, thank you.

[slinkerwink]

70. :kick: can't stand to see 69 comments...

[NewYorkerfromMass]

76. Can't stand two face Dean! (kick)

[Hep]

77. Can't stand lack of intellectual integrity

Waiting for you to respond to this post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=753339&mesg_id=754019&page=

[Fleshdancer]

85. The ad...

Interesting that Gephardt would say:

"leadership is about making tough decisions and sticking with them"

is this like when a Democrat makes the tough decision of being anti-choice and then sticks with it..er, no wait um, scratch that.

I'm a Dean supporter and quite frankly, the $87 billion dollar thing does sound like a switch...although, if there was no Iraqi war, then there would be no $87 billion dollar conversation so does it bother me? Not really.

If you're against the war, then you're against the war. Sure we can dicker over $25 million here, $87 billion there for the war, but at the end of the day, that's our money that isn't being spent on our children and to be brutally honest, it's not helping the soldiers who got their throats slashed either.