Is it just me or is anyone else beginning to get really scared?

[prolesunited]

I don't know how to explain it, but it just really hit me tonight what we are up against and it is totally freaking me out. Bits and pieces of the picture have been revealed all along, but tonight the reality of their vision for this country and the world became crystal clear. I guess you could call it a moment of clarity.

In the middle of the night, the House breaks long-standing conventions to pass a bill that will literally pour billions of taxpayer dollars into corporate coffers and threatens to dismantle the safety net that so many people have come to rely upon.

Then, I learn that they have renewed efforts to infiltrate and document protest demonstrations. My own country may even consider me a terrorist?!?!?

I look at the photographs and read the accounts of what took place in Miami and I am shocked. Even people who were trying to comply were shot with rubber bullets and gassed.

They are literally selling us out to corporate interests and if we dare object, they are going to beat us down. What country am I living in?!?

I know this is nothing new and many of you have made these realizations long ago. I've known much of this on an intellectual level, but this is the first time I've felt it in my soul. And, I sit here alone in the dark, I'm scared.

I just never thought of myself as the enemy.

[7th_Sephiroth]

1. i have seen this coming my friend

i am afraid it is a prelude to civil war, the goverment only panders to corporations the peoples voice is no longer heard, the only thing i can tell you to do is start taking martal arts classes and buy a gun.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[prolesunited]

35. No thank you.

I'm not prepared to use it.

[radwriter0555]

59. Yes. The bush regime has hijacked OUR government. I'd like it BACK

personally.

No one else seems to give a shit.

[JailBush]

2. Welcome aboard!

[pink_poodle]

3. Actually, what happened in Miami the other day, shocked me a lot..........

The photos of those cops.....wow! They looked so bad. I knew things were getting fascist in the US but that looked so bad, I felt queasy. Also, reading about sweeping anti-terror laws coming to Britain and Europe, I have to wonder what this goofball Marten here in Canada will do in January when he runs down to meet up with *BushCo. to "mend fences". Hmmmm....... I feel a cold wind..........

[aquart]

20. Are you thinking this is new?

Honey, it's not. Not in this country. Our laws aren't the product of altruistic liberals. They're the result of terrified rich people afraid of being murdered in their beds.

Our cities burned before we got civil rights legislation.

And before that? The firing on the veterans in DC. The Haymarket massacre. Baby, the smug bastards never quit.

And no poor man ever owned a newspaper, either. Our belief that the media is on our side is a Watergate fluke. They never were before and maybe they never will be again.

[0007]

58. Very well said -

Ask any Indian how honorable and trustworthy and how many genuine treaties the European invader had broken.

Most history books don't talk about the Chinese slaves we used to work the mines and build the railroads in the early days and then what was left of 'em that didn't die here we shipped back to China as broken, sick and worn out men.

The blacks took their lumps also and was misused like the Chinese and put in the corner like the Indian. The only difference was that the Indian would not be a slave to anyone.

Even the Eurpoean women was considered lower than her counter part. And was only given the right to vote less than a hundred years ago. Look at all of the protesting the women went through to win the voting right. Even to this day many are trying to take the vote away by telling the women what can and can't be done with her own body.

'Tis time to set the record straight and practice what we preach. 'Tis time to wake up and leave our dream world of lies behind.

I'm sorry that you feel alone only with your soul. But rest assure that you are not positively NOT alone.

[pink_poodle]

27. Although!!!!! Chavez getting back in plus that velvet coup today in......

Georgia, made me feel happy and uplifted. The marches in the UK a couple of days ago too. People still have spirit!!

[grasswire]

47. you'd better read a bit more...

....about the revolution in Georgia. It's very frightening.

http://exile.ru/178/178010101.html

In order to untangle the web that connects Georgia’s election crisis to global politics, keep in mind four things: James Baker III, Ambassador Richard Miles, Caspian Sea oil, and Russia.

When James Baker was sent out to Georgia this past July to lecture its President, Eduard Shevardnadze, about the need to ensure that the upcoming parliamentary elections were "free and fair," it must have raised a lot of eyebrows. Eyebrows of the "you’ve got to be shitting me" variety.

James Baker? This is the same guy who Bush Jr. hired in 2000 to steal the Florida vote, handing the U.S. presidency over to a tool who lost by half a million votes. The way Baker railroaded Bush into the presidency has done more damage to American democracy than anything since Nixon and Watergate. Sending him into corrupt Georgia to demand that they have "free and fair elections" is like sending Yegor Gaidar into Iraq in order to advise them on privatization and the transition to a market economy – which Bush also did.

So what the hell was Jim Baker doing in Georgia playing the role of some Jimmy Carter bleeding heart? After all, Bush didn’t send him to Azerbaijan, which became the former Soviet Union’s first official dynasty after its pro-U.S. leader handed power to his son in a rigged election. Nor have we raised much of a fuss about free and fair elections to our other new friends in the region. Fuss? Tchya, right. Uzbek strongman Karimov must have received about 100,000 dollars in aid for every American soldier he allowed to be based in his police state (assuming we have about 5,000 soldiers there). Or you could say that we gave about $1,000,000 in aid to Karimov for every political opponent he’s got rotting in jail, boiled skin melted onto busted bones. And Kyrgyzstan – which just started getting its big Santa packages from Uncle Sam after it gave us an air base - has actually slid backwards into deeper authoritarianism ever since Bush started stuffing its leaders’ pockets.

So why was Baker playing the knit-capped human rights hippie in Georgia? The obvious answer is that he wasn’t. When James Baker wades into an oil-soaked, unstable region full of corrupt despots, points at one and tells him he has to play fair this time, it means only one thing: "You’re out, we’re backing new people, and we expect you to go peacefully or else."

[tom_paine]

62. Nice article, grasswire!

James Baker is the Bushevik Molotov.

[Military Brat]

77. Wow, grasswire, you hit that nail right on the head and drove it in

"You’re out, we’re backing new people, and we expect you to go peacefully or else."

Every time someone yammers at me about Saddam and Iraq, I yammer right back about Karimov and Uzbekistan. See article: "Senior U.S. Officials Cozy Up to Dictator Who Boils People Alive" http://www.thememoryhole.org/pol/us-and-uz.htm


Beware the hidden agenda of U.S. agents

[Media_Lies_Daily]

81. Excellent post! U.S. troops are all over that region...links to maps...

Middle East
<http://www.sitesatlas.com/Maps/Maps/MEast.htm>

Chechnya (not on map - located north of Azerbaijan)
Georgia
Azerbaijan
Turkey
Kuwait
Qatar
Bahrain
Iraq
United Arab Emirates
Saudi Arabia
Oman
Yemen
Egypt
Israel
Jordan

Asia
<http://www.sitesatlas.com/Maps/Maps/Asia.htm>

Afghanistan
Guam (U.S.)
Japan,
Kazakhstan
Kyrgyzstan
Nepal
Northern Mariana Islands (U.S.)
Pakistan
Philippines
South Korea
Taiwan
Tajikistan
Thailand
Turkmenistan,
Uzbekistan

[Zhade]

102. ASTOUNDING.

Everyone needs to read this article.

If I read it right, it means that the (probably CIA-backed) 'velvet coup' is actually a 'velvet noose' around the Georgians' collective necks.

It might even mean expansion of the PNAC doctrine, rather than a blockage had the Caspian mother lode remained in Russia's hands.

This is one to watch, people. Peak Oil Politics at its dirtiest. Helps explain the whole Yukos thing a bit more clearly.

[bearfartinthewoods]

90. why shoking?

haven't you heard about the tens of thousands ofdollars in damage done durinf trade meeting protests? you hink they are going to continue to have that hapen?

thank the anarcists for raising the stakes.

[prolesunited]

91. I think you should go to some of the Indy media sites

before making these statements. Many of the people who were attacked, and I say attacked, were just standing there or trying to disperse. Have you seen some of the photos? I guess when all else fails, blame the victim.

They were beaten, gassed and had rubber bullets shot at them, but I'm sure they ALL deserved it. Even worse reports are emerging of what happened to them when they were in jail.

Do I think there are some exaggerations, sure. But, I think the over-the-top police response in Miami definitely deserves an FULL investigation.

[Zhade]

103. Watch the videos. I have them. You are correct.

I have seen peaceful protestors - including anarchists - clubbed, gassed, tazed, and shot without provication.

The evidence is there for all to see. And it is sickening.

[dawgman]

95. Fuck that tens of thousands of dollars mostly to large corporations.

Thats like me losing a dime.

[truthseeker1]

4. You are not alone

I have felt this way since the beginning of the war - nine months now. I live it every day, obsessed with each development in this unfolding drama and fighting the feeling of helplessness. I've sought out things that I can do that might make a difference. Just knowing that I didn't sit back and give up helps me. But yes, I do understand and have felt similar emotions to what you described. And when I let the worry and the frustration get to me too much, it usually manifest itself in me physically (I'll spare you the details but it's my body's way of saying, Whoa, back off, relax, deep breath.)

I just wanted you to know you're not alone. There are many others here that feel the same way too. I am so glad to have DU.

[Rollins]

5. same thoughts

I am working for the Man and have recently given in to destiny.
In other words what's going to happen is going to happen, as long as my side of the street is clean though it will be ok.

Keep being nice to yourself.

[NYC]

6. Join an organization like Demiltarize the Police.

We are not the enemy.

http://demilitarizethepolice.netfirms.com

[silverweb]

7. Yes...

I see what's going on and it scares me, too. I've been disgusted, depressed, angry, defiant, and righteously motivated to fight back.

And very, very scared at times.

But we can not give up!

:grouphug:

[Lars39]

8. proles......have you seen this thread in LBN?

This one ratcheted up my fear. If we're talking multiple nations, we've got to organize worldwide.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=235981

[prolesunited]

14. Thanks!

Reading that made me feel better. NOT!

[Lars39]

18. Sorry.

Probably should have waited 'til daylight for that one.

[prolesunited]

23. No worries!

Probably better to get it all out at once. I'm sure that little bit of news wouldn't have looked any better in the daylight.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

45. It's going to get a lot more "interesting" before it's over...

...and I don't have a clue when "over" will get here.

[LiberalsRSmarter]

63. There's an old Chinese proverb:

"May you live in interesting times."

Okay, we are...may we be boring again, please?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

82. I'd go back to "boring" any day!

[Speck Tater]

9. Stay invisible.

Whenever the system sees you it messes with you. Stay invisible and stay safe.

[david_vincent]

16. Wise words

[prolesunited]

19. What does that mean?

Stay invisible? How do you do that?

[7th_Sephiroth]

21. credit cards are a no-no

so is flight, dont live in debt and dont be politically active

[prolesunited]

25. I am NOT crawling in a hole

and hiding. Don't be politically active? And let them win. I don't think so.

[7th_Sephiroth]

29. thats for those who wissh to stay invisible

if you get politically active be my guest, but if bush wins in 'o4 assasinations in this country will rise like you wouldent believe

[truthseeker1]

75. If Bush wins in '04, I'm MOVING! NT

[Myra]

43. You're logged into DU and telling people not to be politically active?!

Just just let them goose-step over us?
Wow, I hope people here have enough character
and guts not to follow this advice.
I agree with the wisdom of discretion,
but not with rolling over and playing dead.

[7th_Sephiroth]

52. i'm not TELLING people not to be politically active

he asked what being invisible meant and i told him

[Myra]

54. Oh, I see (no pun intended :))

Sorry. I've been a bit on edge the last...
3+ years.

[DRoseDARs]

10. I'd known for years prior to Bush II...

...that the US bubble would burst in the first quarter of the 21st century, but honestly I was expecting it to go sometime after 2010-2020, not in the first decade. Depending on how the next year developes, things don't bode well for the US or her citizens over the next 20-30 years in my opinion. If the things coming out of the Republican mechinations are as bad as some fear, pre-Bush II USAmerica won't see the light of day again for a long time.

We just have to keep hoping we're wrong and strive to prove it.

[Cloud]

11. Keep fighting

Spread the word. When Bush looses next year and I hope he does we can start to heal wounds. Public outcry needs to be large to restore our civil liberties.

We also have people like Kucinich and Sharpton fighting for us so we have a voice. Relax, have some faith. It will all work out in the end.

I have been thinking that would be sweet if Bush wins the popular vote but the dem canidate wins the electoral vote. I would love to see that.

[Andy_Stephenson]

39. Bush will win Wallace Odell guaranteed it

www.blackboxvoting.org

[drfemoe]

84. no no no no no no no no

I have been thinking that would be sweet if Bush wins the popular vote but the dem canidate wins the electoral vote. I would love to see that.

[koopie57]

12. each day I see things

that make me more afraid...but the next day I think....it is a new day... But, yes, I'm growing more and more afraid. Tonight I was looking at the photos of what went on in Miami and my 15 year old son was here. I let him see those photos. He said, "What the fuck is going on?" He said the F word and I understood why he said it.

I look at him and think...what a waste if this kid needs to go to war...he is 15, a second degree black belt, an assistant karate instructor who is refered to as Mr. from anyone from 7 to 70. And to think of him as nothing more than a target for Bush...it makes me sick. And I know there are millions more like him out there. A million more kids who have great things to offer this world. And then there is Bush...worthless....stupid....ignorant...and his spawn who are nothing more than he is.

What the fuck is going on?

[psychopomp]

13. Their lies will never again hold the same sway over you

Knowlege is power.

[PurityOfEssence]

36. Ah, that felt good to hear

Especially since it was the last post of the thread at the time I read it.

Yes, it's demoralizing when we meet some of the ignorant enablers in our daily lives whose foggy stupor allow the few to consolidate control and slam shut the doors of redress, but I also meet enough who "get it". I meet tradespeople and professionals who just hate Junior and his evil fucks from simple common sense and decency. Many express an ABB sentiment, whether they use the phrase or not. They feel empowered when they talk to some wacko like me because is it soothes the ache that comes from assuming that one is all alone.

Yep, it's a close run affair, but I think the cat's too much out of the bag; perhaps the internet came just in the nick of time for humanity.

[cthrumatrix]

92. cat's out of the bag...this is why they will be more dramatic with the

next attack in decalring martial law...of course they will use this as the reason the market collapse...not the trillions of derivatives in gold, interest rates and the dollar

[jumptheshadow]

15. And to those who think any freedom of speech issues are tangential

Consider how this administration has a history of wooing the electorate with its "principled stands" against "unpopular" or "marginal" issues, and then eroding our core values.

[Minstrel Boy]

17. Every day just adds confirmation

that this is not going to end happily. And yes, I'm scared. And more so for my young children. Will they know nothing but George Bush's world?

I'm dreading what 2004 holds. I'm fairly certain people will die so these monsters can hold power. Who and how many, that's the question.

[OneTwentyoNine]

73. You've got that right....

Someone,possibly thousands will die next year for only one reason. Bushes poll numbers. They've only gone up twice since his selection and it was because of death. They went up after 9/11 and went up after he started killing people and getting our own killed in Iraq. The rest of the his administration his numbers have tanked,and are tanking badly as his Oil War continues.

This fucker wants nothing more than an absolute victory in huge numbers over his Dem challenger in 04 and they'll stop at nothing to get it. Death,destruction and rigged voting machines are all on the short list. I'm scared and so GD mad at the same time like I've never been before.

David

[Misinformed01]

22. Scared of what?

No, I am not scared.

I am pissed off.

This is nothing that "they" haven't done before, and the country survived it.

We are going to have a tough economic period from hell...and I am probably going to be poor.

But scared? Of these 1957 redux clowns?

No.

On Edit: DU is full of hysterics. When you find yourself freaking, go read something else.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

86. Right on! Outrage over despair everyday!

Hell, I watch these vipers everyday to keep my blood boiling so it doesn't cool down into resignation.

The American people have a deep well of frustration and sense of betrayal that is contained by a relatively thin veil of fear and confusion.

If the truth of how their security and well-being has been betrayed by corporateers and the GOP/DLC makes it through the media fog, LOOK OUT!

A large scale human tragedy like 9/11 can again make people sit up and ask 'what the fuck!??' And there is now a large database of answers and personalities to provide them, on and off the internet. Unlike just after 9/11 when startled fear dominated public perceptions.

The Second American Revolution will have officially begun!

The neocon's desperation is so palpable that you can smell it.

[slinkerwink]

24. it scares me very very very much.......

that's why I'm committed to my candidate 100%

[prolesunited]

32. Frankly, I don't think one man

can save us, even if it is Dean. ;-)

[drfemoe]

87. Not just one man

you're right.

I started getting scared in Dec 2000. Sep 2001 put me over the edge. (It's a short trip for us neurotics.) --

It wasn't until I learned of the Dean campaign this summer that my fear abated some.

Then moveon started coming on strong. I found DU. My fear has been replaced with some hope. (I've read alternative news for quite some time, which supported the fear factor, but offers little in the way of 'hope'.)

That hope is tempered with tension. Even as the reclaimation of freedom people are moving forward, the resistance seems more determined to put civil liberties in reverse. The tires are spinning. We are either going to spin out one way or the other, or just sit here and burn rubber down to the rim.

For my own mental health, I try to maintain some distance. Like someone said above, these are "interesting times". mmmm-hmmmm .. I would be interested enough in advancing human rights and human potential. I don't need a planetary battleground to get my whoopies. That's just me.

[JanMichael]

26. There are a few DU'ers that have been, where you just arrived, for months.

It's a lonely place too. You have to go about your daily responsibilities while coping with literal DOOM at the same time.

People either think you're nuts or they glom onto you like a fucking lunatic.

Needless to say: WELCOME!:toast:

[Misinformed01]

30. Honey

turn your phone on.

[Nlighten1]

68. Yep

Some of us have seen this coming for a LOOONG time.

[prolesunited]

69. It's not that I didn't know it

It was the first time I felt it. Not sure if that makes sense to anyone.

And, it's not really a lonely place. Judging by this thread, I have a lot of company. :-)

[meisje]

31. buy a gun and move to saskatchewan, it's that simple

:)

[QC]

33. I've been teaching 1984 in my freshman English classes.

Even though I've read the book a number of times, this go-around has disturbed me far more than earlier readings.

Sometimes I think that someone in the White House has also read the book but thinks it is an instruction manual.

[prolesunited]

42. That's an excellent book to be teaching right now

Are the students making the connections?

I think that is a fabulous book and it's actually where I derived by screen name. This passage in particular:

If there was hope, it must lie in the proles, because only there in those swarming disregarded masses, 85 per cent of the population of Oceania, could the force to destroy the Party ever be generated. The Party could not be overthrown from within. Its enemies, if it had any enemies, had no way of coming together or even of identifying one another. Even if the legendary Brotherhood existed, as just possibly it might, it was inconceivable that its members could ever assemble in larger numbers than twos and threes. Rebellion meant a look in the eyes, an inflexion of the voice, at the most, an occasional whispered word. But the proles, if only they could somehow become conscious of their own strength, would have no need to conspire. They needed only to rise up and shake themselves like a horse shaking off flies. If they chose they could blow the Party to pieces tomorrow morning. Surely sooner or later it must occur to them to do it? And yet-!

[QC]

44. Yep, a lot of them do see the connections.

These kids are a bit more cynical that my generation, I think. Good for them--they need some cynicism for times like these.

They've been asking me questions about the draft, too.

[wabeewoman]

34. Tonight when I read the post from the Guardian

about recending the rights of people in other countries, that scared me! And the realization that nothing seems to be stopping these clowns. And it seems like they are cutting out all our options-like going to Canada. But down deep I'm an optomist and I realize that hard times makes good people step up. I've been doing things I've never done before for the 'cause' and I've read of the many things DUers are doing too. So its making us wake up. Just imagine if we do take back the country. It would be really making a difference with your life. And bush had to pass himself off as middle of the road to get 'elected' last time and now many more people are wise to him. So there is hope. What I fear is that people actually vote him in next election but I'm hoping every DU is going to work their hardest to make sure that doesn't happen! I think the best antidote to fear is to take action-write a letter to the editor, call your congressperson, join a campaign.

[Beaker]

97. Seasonal Affective Disorder, perhaps?

Days are getting shorter, the nights longer. Everyone is getting less sunshine, feeling grumpy and rundown- Things will look and feel better come springtime.

[populistmom]

37. What hit me was when I read my first "B*sh Knew" article

I had a bad feeling when I saw the second plane hit the trade center and a few months later, I started reading more and learning more, it grew exponentially. Yes, it scares me very much, so much, I try not to think of how much, but I do what I can, the little steps it takes to make me feel like I'm doing something in my own quiet ways.

[Holly]

38. This isn't new

No, I'm not scared. I was, but now I'm mad. I've been through this before. Born into a world of fear, and dammit I'm not gonna leave this world in fear. This is a bad rerun. We're smarter now, and figured them out faster. Don't be scared, that's how they win. They're counting on fear.They can't win without it. We survived it before and won ...and we''ll win again. We must fight together.

[Myra]

46. That's true

They're controlling the sheeple with fear
(orange alert! red alert! muave alert!).
They're demagogues and plutocrats.

It's impossible not to be afraid due to
the dept of evil in the BFEE. And frankly
anyone aware of what they're about is nuts not
to be terrified. But we can't be paralyzed by
the fear.

I saw the light after coup2k, which was pretty
late. And there have been non stop assaults on
the planet and its inhabitants ever since.
Last night's stolen vote was merely the latest
example. Not gonna roll over though...

"...what would we be if we didn't try?
You gotta try." - Lyle Lovett

[proud patriot]

104. Great post and Welcome to DU Holly

:hi:

[PeakOil2008]

40. Don't lose hope.

And consider this: As much to their dismay as it may be, Cheney, Ashcroft, Rove and Co. are merely men, not gods. They are mortal, and therefore subject to the same ultimate fate as the rest of us. It is never a question of if, but rather when, that fate will come to pass. Their power also has an inevitable end. And it is the end of that power that is something that we, the people, can bring about.

You have no reason to fear these men. But you do have every reason to stand up and fight them. And we shall fight them by organizing to take back control of our government, and by exposing their treachery to our fellow citizens. In doing so, we make them afraid by reminding them of their own limitations.

[Zorra]

41. We are up against

fascists that are every bit as dangerous to the world, if not more so, than Hitler and the Nazis were. Yeah, these people are flat out evil. Bottom line, it is up to us to stop them before they really get going, because fascist America and WWIII ain't gonna be pretty if we don't.

[TreasonousBastard]

48. As someone else here said...

it's not new, and has been going on throughout our history.

It's the natural survival instinct everyone has, and TPTB have the means to ensure their survival.

One of the things that has kept us from becoming a dictatorship in the past is our diversity and personal independance. The ACLU, NAACP, AFL-CIO, KKK, Montana Militia, NRA, and Judge Moore have one thing in common-- "Don't you dare tell me what to think, do, or say."

It's messy, ofen counterproductive, and many of us are at each other's throats much of the time, but we can't lose the fighting spirit and fierce independance that made us what we are.

Media consolidation and the two-party system have reduced the number of voices out there, and for the time being it is our voices that have been reduced the most. Hopefully, this too will pass, and before too much damage has been done.

[Blue-Jay]

49. You're not alone, Proles...

That's the good news. You're not alone. Far from it. As I look around my own community as well as others, I'm seeing an upswell in political interest/activism.

Case in point: I'm sure that nearly everyone here knows someone who voted for Bush in the last election, who now swears that they won't make the same mistake again. Can anyone name me ONE supporter of Gore, who has flipped? I fuckin' doubt it.

We got more votes last time. We've mobilized more formerly apathetic people who will get off their asses next year. I, personally, have recruited 4 or 5 who I can count on to vote Democratic. (Sure, that's not many, but it's a start. I'll get more)

We're winning. No, it's not making the news. (damn that liberal media) Make no mistake. We're winning. It's a shame that we've had to endure the Bush years, but there's a bright side: People are finally paying attention.

Don't let the right-wing media juggernaut mislead you. We're gaining ground every time Bush opens his big fat stupid mouth. I'm actually confident, barring the BBV issue.

[whirlygigspin]

55. Land of the Brave

Americans are a brave people,
If we need to fight and die in another civil war
to end this scurge of evil masked in veils of faith
and war, so be it.

Dylan Thomas

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lighting they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.

Do not go gentle into that good night
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

[Malva Zebrina]

83. Dylan did not go gentle in much--I think he wrote that poem for his father

I have often thought of that poem--thanks for the reminder. It shows me Dylan's angst and frustration at the impending death of his father -- he is begging his father not to die--as if the man who was so big in his eyes all of his life, can even conquor death if spurred on-so great an archetype was he.

Metaphorically, it can be applied to those of us who see this country slowing slipping into a decay and losing it's beaming, shining light that brought hope to other people and other countries in the world and that embarked on a grand experiment. Those who would fear any experiment, those who are fearful and cannot stand the exhiliration of risk waxed successful, have always been here ready to take power and bring us backward into some imagined, safe, 'better time' of the past where their fantasies tell them they do not have to tap into any of their archetypical unconscious thoughts. We have ,under these fearful cowards, become the invaders--instead of the helpers.

do not go gently into that good night--rage, rage against the dying of the light. Do it

[stevedeshazer]

50. Timeline

Before 9/11, I was pissed.

On 9/11, I was shocked and frightened.

On 9/12, I started asking questions.

With every answer since, I have grown more pissed.

It's rage now, not fear. I have nothing to fear, for I have nothing more to lose.

[grasswire]

51. on the day...

...of the Oklahoma City bombing, I knew what was going to happen here. I started asking savvy people on the internet -- how long before we have chaos in our land? Ten years, max, was the answer. We're just about there.

On that day, as I watched the footage, I even made a survivalist's list. How to leave the city and survive for a few years. Of course I never put that as my highest priority, so am not ready.

[prolesunited]

67. In the immortal words of Janis Joplin

"Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose."

[Piperay]

53. Been thinking this way

for awhile now. I fear it is to late to ever reclaim our country "they" set this plan in motion years ago and have basically achieved their goal. :-(

[JCMach1]

56. One word-- GEORGIA

And I don't mean the one to the north of Florida.

[veganwitch]

72. that was the coolest thing i had ever seen.

what are the chances that something like that would happen in the US?

[grasswire]

79. agh!

You'd better read about James Baker and Georgia before you call that "cool." This overthrow of the Government there is instigated by the BFEE. It's about Caspian oil.

In order to untangle the web that connects Georgia’s election crisis to global politics, keep in mind four things: James Baker III, Ambassador Richard Miles, Caspian Sea oil, and Russia.

When James Baker was sent out to Georgia this past July to lecture its President, Eduard Shevardnadze, about the need to ensure that the upcoming parliamentary elections were "free and fair," it must have raised a lot of eyebrows. Eyebrows of the "you’ve got to be shitting me" variety.

James Baker? This is the same guy who Bush Jr. hired in 2000 to steal the Florida vote, handing the U.S. presidency over to a tool who lost by half a million votes. The way Baker railroaded Bush into the presidency has done more damage to American democracy than anything since Nixon and Watergate. Sending him into corrupt Georgia to demand that they have "free and fair elections" is like sending Yegor Gaidar into Iraq in order to advise them on privatization and the transition to a market economy – which Bush also did.

So what the hell was Jim Baker doing in Georgia playing the role of some Jimmy Carter bleeding heart? After all, Bush didn’t send him to Azerbaijan, which became the former Soviet Union’s first official dynasty after its pro-U.S. leader handed power to his son in a rigged election. Nor have we raised much of a fuss about free and fair elections to our other new friends in the region. Fuss? Tchya, right. Uzbek strongman Karimov must have received about 100,000 dollars in aid for every American soldier he allowed to be based in his police state (assuming we have about 5,000 soldiers there). Or you could say that we gave about $1,000,000 in aid to Karimov for every political opponent he’s got rotting in jail, boiled skin melted onto busted bones. And Kyrgyzstan – which just started getting its big Santa packages from Uncle Sam after it gave us an air base - has actually slid backwards into deeper authoritarianism ever since Bush started stuffing its leaders’ pockets.

So why was Baker playing the knit-capped human rights hippie in Georgia? The obvious answer is that he wasn’t. When James Baker wades into an oil-soaked, unstable region full of corrupt despots, points at one and tells him he has to play fair this time, it means only one thing: "You’re out, we’re backing new people, and we expect you to go peacefully or else."

http://exile.ru/178/178010101.html

[prolesunited]

74. That was truly an awesome sight to behold

But will it happen here? Given all that we know now, if we had a repeat of the 2000 elections, would we be storming the White House?

[moondust]

57. On the road to ruiNation.

There's a lot of misery ahead for all but the very rich. Brought to you by the party of unflinching selfishness and unbridled greed.

[dand]

60. No wonder they call us limp wristed panty waisted liberals,

We need to get pissed off, instead of sitting alone in the dark, bond with the people on this site and get in our politician's faces, and at least try to make a difference.

[solinvictus]

89. Liberals

It's because the right is more aggressive in broadcasting their message. We need a leftist Ann Coulter. I'm sorry, but on a gut level, she is admirable for saying exactly what she believes. Leftists are typically civil to the point of weakness.

[nostamj]

61. "pre-emptive self-defense"

will be turned against citizens who dissent against bushco propaganda.

(see Miami) that was a trial balloon. the american people did NOT raise an eyebrow.

they did not raise an eyebrow when armed police stormed a high school. (that was a trial balloon)

the corporate elite who control the american government will NOT give up that power easily.

ironically, if the BBV movement succeeds in stopping THAT avenue to assure the continuation and growth of fascism, then a suspension of voting under a veil of martial law to 'protect' us from terra is no longer a scenerio for a 'what if' novel.

very very scary.

[FlaGranny]

70. The American People never saw those things.

They were a fast blip on the radar that disappeared before anyone could take notice.

[nostamj]

71. on edit...

They were a fast blip on the radar that WERE disappeared before anyone could take notice.

[LiberalsRSmarter]

64. Recall this one?

"When fascism comes, it will be wrapped in the American flag!"

... and it's happening that way, right? ...

[nostamj]

66. i'd change the tense

"When fascism came, it was wrapped in the American flag."

[Nlighten1]

65. If you can afford it...might I recommend...

http://www.barrettrifles.com/

[solinvictus]

80. Barrett

Yep, I'd love to have one, but it costs more than my car. My short list for the next three months is:
1) A .308 main battle rifle, either an FAL, CETME, or a G3 clone. Parts kit and about 13 magazines for the same. I'm leaning more toward the FAL as there are SO MANY parts kits out there.
2) A good pump action 12 gauge, hopefully a Remington 870 Youth model.
3) A Marlin Model 60 .22.

It's getting a little too interesting here. The Miami protests and police actions were given zero coverage by the media, ditto for the police invasion of that Carolina high school. The problem is that since the "War on Terror" started, Americans have become complacent with escalating police and government actions. I'm afraid that the state can do about anything in the name of security and get away with it.

[truth2power]

76. Guess I'm not alone.

When I read about what happened in Miami I was just shocked and sickened. IMO that gives the lie to those here who say that the military would not kill American citizens if it came down to it. The police in any city in America would brutalize and kill their own neighbors. Why do people think the military wouldn't do the same?

When the Trans Atlantic Business Dialog met here in Cincinnati a few years ago I was among the protestors and I was pretty alarmed by some of the behavior of our city's finest. Later, I saw some raw video taken by citizens and was even more alarmed. I saw (on video) a man and woman just standing on the sidewalk. They didn't appear to be shouting and weren't shaking their fists or anything. I saw a cop stride up and grab the man and drag him off camera. The woman just stood there, transfixed. Then a cop came back into camera range and sprayed her in the face with mace or something. She wasn't doing anything.

This was around the time of the shooting of Timothy Thomas, an African American, by a Cincinnati officer. This resulted in a long series of panels, town meetings etc. regarding the Cincinnati police. I said at the time that it wasn't strictly a black issue. From what I saw during the TABD protests I would say the Cincinnati police are equal opportunity oppressors. I wouldn't trust them, even today. They protect the violent ones - those who are destroying this country for their own greed.

And BTW - this puzzles me. Most police officers probably aren't wealthy and are union members. Why are they so willing to work against their own interest by protecting those who are raping this country?

[kentuck]

78. Fear is such a potent weapon..

Don't let them do that to you.

[prolesunited]

88. Just for clarification

I was having a weak moment last night. I was just reading too much and let it get to me. It's not a pervasive or suffocating feeling that I'm having and I'm feeling much more positive and empowered today.

I'm glad I posted this anyway because it's nice to know that I'm not alone and that others have experienced the same thing. I've also appreciated the words of strength and encouragement.

I have not lost heart.

In effect, the human being should be considered the priority in a political war. And conceived as the military target ... the human being has his most critical point in his mind. Once the mind has been reached, the 'political animal' has been defeated without necessarily receiving bullets.
— US Central Intelligence Agency training manual

[Must_B_Free]

85. haha - you tinfoil hat people make me laugh

next you're going to claim that BUsh had something to do with 911 - haha.

Lets all be reasonable modeerate democraqts and just go along with it.

It's all just a coincidence.

[dusty64]

93. I am getting a feeling

as well as they have warned us of another "attack" with WMD after which the Constitution will be suspended. We all knew this would be the result of the "patriot act" and I'm sadly not surprised at all, what did surprise me was Congress expanded the act this week with VERY little notice taken. Does anyone know the vote tally on this?

[Nlighten1]

94. Another attack is inevitable to their plan

Especially if it is a "WMD" attack.

[LWolf]

96. It's not just you.

Fear is so destructive; fear wins battles for them before they're fought.

So I don't acknowledge fear. I have been frustrated, angry, and finally enraged that so many people, moderate repubs and dems included, just don't "get it." They just don't see the steady, one-piece-at-a-time erosion of everything as they build their new reality, one piece at a time.

I think it stems from the nation's addiction to corporate tv and it's corporate news. Nobody thinks to question it.

I watch very little tv, and haven't watched any tv news in almost 3 years. I listen to a little NPR, but that's about it as far as radio goes.

Every year, I think we've gone as far as we can possibly go, and then end up wondering how much further we have to go before people wake up, and if it will then be too late. It makes me impatient with my fellow human beings at times. I want to kick them and shout at them to look; to open their eyes and really see.

[absolutezero]

98. you're not the enemy

they are...
The corporate interests and neocons and religous fanatics are the enemies to our country and everything it stands for.

[proud patriot]

99. You have a lot people with you

read my sig line

[bloom]

100. I was talking with a couple of my right-wing relatives today

and one mentioned something about Hummers and something about if society collapsed the Hummer owners would have a means of escape.

It seemed likely that that is at least a subconsious motivation for buying big-honking SUVs and esp. Hummers. The survivalist mentality.


It's weird to think about so many people being afraid - in different ways or for different reasons. Or maybe for the same reasons - but looking for different solutions.

[Zhade]

101. You are not the enemy. THEY ARE.

They are traitors to the Constitution and this country.

By defying them, you are a true patriot. Never forget that.

[oasis]

105. AND every person in the White House who receives a Federal paycheck

is supposed to be working for me.

[1songbird]

106. Things will get worse if he is re-elected, but DUers and other

Dems of awareness will be better off than many. I say this because at least we don't have any blinders on. We see the Bush* administration for what they truly are and we can prepare. The poor saps who believe that Bush* is in their corner are in for a rude awakening. Many poor and middle class working Americans who think that they identify and belong with the Rep. party will awake to massive job losses and a severly regressive tax system. Dubya the "man's man" will have done them in just as he's doing many right now.

[Adjoran]

107. The FBI

and local cops were infiltrating and taking pictures at demonstrations in the '60s, and there was a lot more head-bashing and tear gas used back then than nowadays.

It's a prudent thing to be worried, but don't let your fears consume you to the point where you lose sight of the immediate goals. That's just what they want.

You can't control a lot of what is going on in this country. You can only control your own actions and attitudes. If your cause is just, you must fight the best fight you can, and have faith that right will win out in the end. Nothing good comes easy, though, and those who think it will risk sharing the same fate as those who fear it never will come at all.

Talk to others. Draw them out with questions. It will surprise you just how many people out there, who don't live and breathe politics, agree with the assessments you see here. Don't try to convert everyone 100% on every issue; we don't have to, and it is impossible anyway. Cultivate each person slowly, and individually.

Every minute I spend worrying about whether or not Ashcroft is monitoring my phone or email is a minute I could have made another call, or written another short message to everyone on my contact lists. Ashcroft is either listening, or he isn't. If he is, I intend to give him a damned earful.

[prolesunited]

108. Some very good points

here. Like I mentioned up the thread, I was just having a dark moment. I'm certainly not letting fear cloud my life or my actions — and I will NOT let it stop me from doing what I can to help stop these people from destroying our country.

I'm too young to have participated in the protests in the '60s, but I have seen pictures and film footage. It did get pretty ugly and at least no one has been shot YET — although I do think that it is going to happen eventually.

I agree that talking to people one on one is very effective and I do it on a regular basis. It's amazing (well, just a little) how uninformed people are. Once presented with the facts, they often change their minds.