Preparing for the worst: Bush* really could win in 2004

[Q]

- The stage is set and all the players are in place. Bush* remaining in office will have absolutely nothing to do with the lack of quality Democratic candidates. But it will have everything to do with a Nationalistic Media, permanent state of national emergency and war.

American Media

- The American media likes their viewers happy and ignorant. They will continue to spread the message that Bush* is a humble, God-fearing man doing his best to protect YOU. Democrats will be portrayed by the media as "Bush*- Haters" and obstructors of Bush's* war on terrorism. They will smear the Democratic nominee and give Bush* one more free ride...for the Gipper.

Military-Industrial Complex

- Unprecedented gravy train and unbridled greed. No further explanation needed.

Religious Fundamentalism

- Never underestimated the 'Religious Right' and their love of war and hatred of Democrats.

Elections and Voting

- Will your vote be counted?

Divided Democratic party

- The Right and Left halves of the Democratic party are still struggling for control. The Left half wants to fight Bush* on his own turf and the Right half doesn't want to fight at all.

- All of this adds up to a Bush* 'win' in 2004 UNLESS we come together against him. Can we do it? Probably not. It seems America may need another four years of Bush* before they'll finally wake up and smell the police state.

- We must fight Bush* with the truth and set our nation free. The truth about 9-11. The truth about Bush* secrecy. The truth about shadow governments. The truth about hidden presidential papers and national energy policy. The truth about Bush* lying to drive this nation to war. The truth about outing CIA agents for revenge.

- There is no middle ground between right and wrong...truth and lies. To think otherwise is to give Bush* another four years.

[Freddie Stubbs]

1. If the economy is doing well, his chances of winning are high

[Q]

2. The economy won't be an issue...

...during a time of war and fear. In fact...few domestic issues will come into play when the Bushies can use their perpetual war and fear to manipulate the media and the American people.

- Republicans and many on the Left will support Bush* to look patriotic. The Bushies know how to use nationalism, patriotism and war for political gain.

- Democrats must break through the illusion that Bush* is doing a 'good job' and making us safer.

- Bush* can also run on his many 'legislative victories' because the Democratic party has literally been shut out of the legislative process.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

5. Yes, any Democrat who utters the words...

"I support the president" or anything equivalent should be denied DNC support and given an officially supported primary challenge.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

37. The economy WILL be an issue IF Democrats make it one

If Democrats decide that the only economic problems with Bush is that he isn't committed enough to free trade agreements, thdn no, the economy won't be an issue, at least, not an issue we can beat Republicans with.

[nostamj]

4. and the economy does NOT have to be doing well

for the people to be told and believe it is going well

[Jonte_1979]

3. It's going to be an even race

But I believe the dems will ultimately come out on top. I think the dem base will be the deciding factor.

[Q]

6. An 'even race'?

- I'm getting the impression that you're not paying attention. Just as in the 2000 election...we can't depend on voting alone to keep Bush* out of office.

- We must go on the offensive and expose the truth about Bush*, Republican party dirty tricks and deception.

[Jonte_1979]

10. Right you are

My prediction was based on the premise that the GOP will have a much harder time rigging the election this time around. Maybe I was being myopic.

[Q]

12. You're not being 'myopic'...

...but perhaps a bit too optimistic?

- We have Bev Harris and others working towards correcting the blatant flaws in our system of elections...but will it be enough to change things before the election?

- There's nowhere near a even playing field in the upcoming election.

[knight_of_the_star]

45. It has to an extent

Bev Harris managed to get the Sec. of State of California to demand reciepts of electronic votes and to make them secure. So goes California, so goes the nation. Diebold has sunk a lot of money out here, and the demdn for reciepts could upset things enough to force the rest of the country to be brought about. We jsut have to press the voting machines issue hard everywhere and we can keep the election contestable. That and we have to organize grassroots efforts to contest congressional reps of hte republicans everywhere we can in this country. I will be doing whatever I can in SD county California, I hope everyone else does what they can.

[KennedyGuy]

7. Unfortunatly, I agree

Complacency will get us every time. Its the same thing as the reagan thing over at CBS. By the time we even woke up to the issue, they had already amassed their boycotts and freeper email-athons. It is almost beyond belief to think that this country hasn't paid enough of a cost for the past 4 years, but maybe we haven't suffered enough. If we continue to just sit back and hope for change, we will be looking at 4 more years of this clown. For my part, as in past elections, I am planning to be as involved as I possibly can doing work on the NY branch of whomever the nominee is. The time to act is NOW. Not the day after the election, moaning and pissing about how Bush just got another 4 years...and wondering how this could have possibly happened to us again.

[NicRic]

8. uncontested incumbent rarely lose !

Thats a fact that we cant deny . I hope bush is the exception to this fact ! It just seems so much so that the deck is stacked in his favor. You have a population thats been spoon fed propaganda from day one on the greatness of this pResident! I have never seen things go so bad under a president ,and yet he gets high scores from at least 1/2 of the people ! Of course how do we know what to believe at this point ? I for the frist time never listen to the evening news ,I just cant take the B/S , and the lack of any other perspective ,then the propaganda coming from the White House !

[Q]

15. The 'up is down and down is up' propaganda...

...will be a very important part of Bush's* campaign of lies in 2004.

- Remember that the media will actually HELP Bush* stay in office. This will be a virtual repeat of the 2000 election in many ways.

[Deja Q]

9. People don't care, unfortunately.

Not DUers but your average American, who I no longer have much respect for. :-( :cry:

They just want to feel secure and have a decent paying job. It's all about themselves, which is why repukes ever win at all - they home in on the "it's all about me" instinct. In a 'war' they only care about American deaths. Indeed, many still support this Iraq 'war' even though it's no war of any kind. Tell them that nearly 10,000 Iraqis have been hurt or killed and they won't care. Tell them about the looting, they don't care. Tell them about Iraqi's nuclear facilities being open for taking and not not secured for over a month, for any terrorist to get into, they don't care. Even the recent nculear bullet story is something they won't care about because it doesn't affect our troops.

When America gets attacked again, they don't care about the cause or the mindset behind the attack. They'll just praise bush* for uniting them. :eyes: Remember, bush* is not a genius for leading. People are geniuses for being led.

[Q]

11. A preemptive disclaimer:

- We shouldn't be listening to polls or waiting for Bush* to self-destruct. There is a potential here for Bush* to pull off a landslide win because he has SO MANY things going his way.

- And we can't look to past elections or history for hints on how to proceed. Why? Because no executive branch in the history of the US has ever had this much power consolidated in the executive branch AND control of the media.

- We can and must come up with a new strategy that will put George in a defensive posture.

[jumptheshadow]

13. The pragmatic wing of the Democratic party

We're the folks of all political stripes who could write you the script for the upcoming Republican attack. And we have been strategizing to do battle against it, despite the far left-wing attacks coming from the folks who may well not vote Democratic at all.

We recognize that the party must wage this campaign with the strongest, most credible candidate, an effective media and grassroots campaign, and a powerful message that will draw in the wobbly voters.

Having the right candidate, who will be able to trump Bush on his own talking points, is the key to winning this election. Unity is the key to winning this election. If Dean emerges as the nominee, then we have to fight like heck for him. Although Bush is already gearing up to shred him and we are simply seeing the well-scripted "Dems are weak" attack that many of us have known would come for some time.

[Q]

16. The 'far left' and the Democratic nominee...

...will have nothing to do with the potential of Bush* staying in office.

- But you do provide a great example of the divisions within the party.

[jumptheshadow]

22. Who we nominate is everything!

The RW won't be able to run the campaign of their dreams if we nominate Wes Clark or John Kerry.

They are salivating for a Dean candidacy. It plays right into their hands.

[Q]

25. Who we nominate will mean very little...

...if one looks at recent history. It will have nothing to do with the quality of the nominee. Why? Because they won't be 'allowed' to get their message out unfiltered to the American people.

- Gore won the 2000 election....but even THAT didn't stop George* from 'winning'.

- Let's stop repeating the mistakes of the past.

[Yupster]

55. Kind of agree with you Q

I think people will decide they want to keep Bush or dump him. I don't think the Democratic nominee will matter all that much as far as winning or losing.

Kind of like 1996. Bob Dole seemed to be a nice enough man, and probably was a pretty poor candidate, but I don't think it mattered much. The people decided to keep Clinton, and I don't really think it mattered much who was the other choice.

[Brucey]

14. How does this guy get 50% support?

This is what I find most incredible: He has ruined everything, yet half the people approve. It must be part greed by those who have prospered, part patriotic support by those with junior high school spirit, part religious right, and part idiots. But there it is. Half the people approve of this clown. I agree with most everything in this thread, but one more issue that is on their side: the electoral college. We might have another Dem win on the popular vote, but Bush* win in the EC.

[Q]

18. The EC can be easily manipulated...

...especially if the state involved wants Bush* to 'win'. We must keep in mind that the GOP-controlled Florida legislature 'promised' their votes to Bush* during the recount even if it turned out that Gore had won.

[jmowreader]

34. I wonder...

You've seen those "news announcements" from the American Family Association (Donald Wildmon's group) talking about all the sleaze on television. What you may not know is that Wildmon likes to throw out the responses that don't jive with his agenda.

Is it possible that a limited form of that is benefiting Bush? Obviously they can't throw out all of the "Bush=idiot" responses, but they could cast out enough to make Dubya seem more presidential than he is.

Either that, or weight the polled population to ensure Bush fans will be overrepresented.

In a real survey conducted in a country with a free press, Bush's approval rating would be about twelve.

[kysrsoze]

41. It's all about denial

The idea that the leaders of our government are a bunch of crooks and murderers is too far-fetched and too much of a strange notion for your average, less educated, TV-addicted "America is #1" person to accept. Too many people in this country are oblivious to what goes on in the rest of the world and accept rumors, word-of-mouth and spoon fed "news" as fact, rather than taking the time to investigate the issues and find out what is really going on..

[LeahMira]

57. It's "feel good" time...

It must be part greed by those who have prospered, part patriotic support by those with junior high school spirit, part religious right, and part idiots. But there it is. Half the people approve of this clown.

It's probably all of the above, but I think it's because he makes a lot of people believe that the USA is number 1 and as its citizens, they are number 1. Strongest, most moral, most generous, most pleasing to G-d, smartest, richest, hardest working, best looking, the whole bit. More than that is the fact that he especially makes the average WASP feel good about being WASP.

People who vote Republicans don't want to hear about injustice or complex problems. They want to hear that they don't have to be bothered with those things. They want to be winners. Right now, that's how a lot of them feel, and if anyone attacks their boy they feel like the attacker is trying to bring them down and make them feel bad about themselves, and they aren't about to let anybody tell them that they aren't winners.

[Q]

17. Ashcroft: "In America, we have no king but Jesus"

- And Bush* says our freedom comes from the 'Almighty'.

- We mustn't forget the religious aspects of this presidency.

- War and religion: a winning combination for Bush*?

[RainDog]

26. In America we have no king, you fucking Torquemada traitor

Ashcroft no doubt finds great inspiration in the Inquisition, rather than the Constitution, since he seems to hate that document so much he has worked since day 1 to undermine it.

I will thank God for the day when Ashcroft's head is on the metaphorical pike and sanity is again restored to the DoJ.

[onebigbadwulf]

19. I don't think Greens or Progressives

will be stupid enough to not unify against Bush this time.

We might even get some libertarians since Dean is a social liberal / fiscal conservative.

[Lorien]

30. You are more optimistic than

I am. I believe that many Kucinich supporters will write in their candidate no matter who wins the Dem nod. If Gepheardt wins the nomination, I think many Dems will stay home and prepare themselves for a Bush* win rather than fight for someone they see as "Bush* lite". I'll vote and fight for the Democratic nominee, no matter who he is, but I honestly don't think any lessons from 2000 were truly learned by many on our side.

[Q]

20. "Bush* is the 'right man' in office to fight the war on terrorism'...

- This is yet one more illusion the Left needs to fight and expose.

- One thing to remember above all else: Bush* will campaign on the 'war on terrorism' and the Democrats who oppose it.

[phaseolus]

21. My recurring nightmare --

A string of 7-2 supreme court decisions. Breyer and Souter always dissenting with the majority made up of Scalia, Thomas, O'Connor, Kennedy, and new justices Olson, Kmiec, and Roy Moore...

[PurityOfEssence]

32. Well, you're gonna LOVE this Doug Kmiec quote, then:

This is from an article by Kmiec in November 19th's L.A. Times:

"Marriage promotes procreation, ensures the benefits of child rearing by the distinct attributes of both father and mother and makes intimate sexual activity orderly and socially accountable."

HUH?! Are we going to have to get a "sex permit" soon? Is there going to be an inspector telling us that "doggie style" is disorderly, savage and disruptive to the common good? What's the matter with people like this?

I don't know about you folks, but the last thing I want when having a plook-fest with Mrs. Essence is "orderliness"; I want raging, unpredictable, primal, frenzied confusion topped off with some unaccounted-for contractions, eruptions and general willy-nilly anarchic release. What's with this guy? "Yes dear, it's the first Saturday of the new equinox and I've got the 4 spare minutes, so loosen your drawers, will you? I've clipped the coupon from our Ashcroft Coital Allotment Bible, and the notary pubic's here to stamp it for us."

Don't laugh yet: the Notary Pubic is on his way, and I guarantee ya, he'll be a sour one.

[Timefortruth]

23. “Stock market up despite terror worries”

The headline of my small town paper this is. It ran right next to a chart showing a 140 point drop in the Dow last week, the market was up 14 on Friday, so the headline was justified? You really don't lose when you underestimate the attention of the population.

The market will crash and soon. It is a crapshoot on any given day but there is one certainty. When it crashes people will start looking at the economy as a whole.

The sorry part is that so many people will suffer before they learn the truth, they could find it out anyway but don’t.

[Q]

24. Bush* can keep all the 'bad news' on hold until after the election...

- He'll be able to do this because the Republican party has an undue influence over the American media.

- The Iraq war will be an unresolved issue...but this will mean little in the context of a war we've been told will last a 'generation'.

[Lorien]

31. You've listed the problems, now what do you offer

as a solution? Do you have a strategy in mind?

[Philosophy]

27. Do you know anyone who voted for Gore who intends to vote for Bush*?

I haven't heard anyone who voted for Gore say they will vote for Bush in 2004, yet I have heard lots of people say they regret voting for Bush and intend to vote for the Democratic candidate this time.

Then again, everyone I hang around with is pretty into politics so maybe I'm not getting a representative sampling of ignorant independent swing voters.

[NewJeffCT]

50. Unfortunately

Bush picked up a lot of independent votes after 9/11. The media did all they could to make him into a national hero for his scurrying around with his tail between his legs that day.

[many a good man]

28. Turnout

It always comes down to voter turnout. In this regard I think we're in better shape. There's a sharper distinction this time around between the two parties and greater solidarity among Dems.

Even though Republicans are extraordinarily loyal, Bush* has turned off much of his party's base. He has governed very much contrary to his 2000 campaign rhetoric. There's still a meaningful slice of the party that are libertarian, anti-imperialist, and fiscally sensible. These folks will find it tough to get off their butts on election day. Soccer moms wince at the daily news of American casualties in Iraq...

That being said, we are still living in the age of media illusion and mind control. Therefore the campaign will be more important than the candidate. It will be very important to field a charismatic candidate but ads, however sickening they may be to thinking people, will take center stage.

Dems need to run emotional ads that are both positive and negative. There was an interesting sidebar in the WP today on a study of emotionally charging political ads with sounds and images (sorry, no link). Brace yourself for a distasteful propaganda onslaught that we won't be comfortable with; keep reminding yourself about what's at stake. Remind yourself about the incomprehensible 50% who still embrace Bush*.

If Bush* wins* again, will it be the end of the world? Maybe so, but maybe we need to make a new world. The certain disaster that would follow his victory may be what is needed to snap some sense into people once and for all...

[1songbird]

29. Well I don't agree that Repugs are united

Let's look at what's happening in Congress. The Medicare Bill almost died in the House because Repuglicans crossed over to vote against it. It wasn't until Chimpy strong armed a couple of senators that this bill went through. They are afraid because they think that the Repuglican Party will retaliate against them in their elections if they stand against Bush. They know what happened to McCain and Cleland.

In the Senate a filibuster of the Energy Bill is being led by Senator John McCain a Repuglican. Listening to Democratic and Repuglican seniors rail against the Medicare plan on C-SPAN shows that there is some anger in both parties against the pResident's policies.

Listening to Pat Buchanan on the Mcglaughlin Group this morning call the Iraq war a big mistake that's created more terrorism was very interesting. There is division in their ranks. The press would have a us think otherwise but I don't believe it. Dems have to come together and not let wedge issues divide us. The Repugs are counting on this. If we don't unite then it will be four more years of hell.

[Hippo_Tron]

33. Worst case scenario Bush wins with the house and 60 votes in the senate...

Then we would be VERY fucked...

[Cleita]

35. Don't forget rigged elections. No we don't have proof but

it happens and it can happen here.

[Cocoa]

36. you always contradict yourself

but it's not usually as clear as this:

- The Right and Left halves of the Democratic party are still struggling for control. The Left half wants to fight Bush* on his own turf and the Right half doesn't want to fight at all.

- All of this adds up to a Bush* 'win' in 2004 UNLESS we come together against him.

First you divide the dems, then in the next breath you say we must come together.

The second part is correct, division will help Bush.

But the first part is false, it's a false division that some people are working overtime to sell, with "who should replace Daschle" polls and such.

[Q]

42. I see no contradiction...

- I didn't divide the Dems...they did that on their own. The division comes from literally TWO factions within the party. One faction is decidedly conservative...represented by the DLCers. The other faction is of the 'old school' liberal Democrats who have already confronted Bush* but have found NO help from the conservatives.

- Conservative Dems seem quite satisfied with the current leadership....even when they vote with the other side or simply give up without a fight.

[Cocoa]

43. you divide dems into "good" and "bad" dems

You use single votes to put people into the "bad" category, and the only dems that fit into your "good" category are mythical, dead, or not running.

[IranianDemocrat]

38. That's why we can't let Dean get the nomination.

His image is too vulnerable to the GOP propoganda machine. His loss would make McGovern look victorious.

[slinkerwink]

39. ::rolls eyes::

That's a stupid meme.

[Skwmom]

53. If Dean is the nominee, we will most likely lose.

I think the chances of Dean winning against Bush are 1 in a million (unfortunately for the nation, that is enough for many Dean supporters). Of course, the majority of his supporters will just say any Democrat would have lost. They will refuse to admit we might of had a fighting chance if we had put up a better candidate. However, I'm sure the media will point out repeatedly that the Democrats nominated the weakest of all the candidates.

The Republicans came together to back Arnold because they knew he had the best chance of winning. The Democrats refused to put up an alternative strong candidate, losing yet another election. I wonder if this party will ever get its act together.

[Q]

40. You nicely point out why Bush* will most likely win in 2004...

...you guys can't stop bickering about candidates long enough to realize the Bushies are doing an end run around us and the Constitution.

- I'm convinced now more than ever that Democrats (and America) needs another four years of hell and Bush* before they'll put their petty bullshit aside and work together for the common good.

[Baconfoot]

44. My plan if Bush wins is to have a nervous breakdown. n/t

[Q]

46. But...Bush* 'winning' in 2004 might finally unite the Left...

...against him. It won't be a pretty sight.

- But the problem remains: Bush* will campaign on everlasting war. When he is gone...the next Republican will run on everlasting war. That's why the Democrats must become the party of peace. This will NEVER end until someone puts a stop to it. It's up to the Democrats.

[kentuck]

47. One way we can win...

Fear is not a winning message for Americans. It was not in the Great Depression and it is not now. Americans are hopeful people. In their final choice, they will choose hope and courage over fear and paranoia. The candidate that realizes this truth and can communicate it in a courageous and forceful manner will beat the socks off George W Bush next November.

No doubt, 9/11 was a traumatic event for our nation. We were united in our desire to go after the guilty parties. That is why we went into Afghanistan. We traced the footprints right up to the cave of Osama bin Laden. Then we forgot about him.

Mr Bush decided that he wanted to finish that little bit of business that his father, Bush41, had left undone in Iraq. He decided to invade that nation under false pretenses or at best, false intelligence. This ran counter to everything America has ever stood for. We do not declare war on other nations without cause. America is not a war-mongering nation, however much some people might argue otherwise. We have had war-mongering leaders in the past that have led us to war, but the American people are by their nature, a friendly and peaceful people.

Now, Mr Bush has a new political ad out in Iowa touting his leadership in the war on terror. He mentions a "horror like none we have ever seen". He is playing solely on the fear of our people. That is a message that only works when there is not a counter message of courage and hope.

We need a candidate that will say, "No, we will not cower in fear. We will not hide under our beds. We do not wish to give up our freedoms because our leaders are too fearful and too paranoid to fight the terrorists in a more courageous and intelligent manner."

"We will fight these outlaws with the help of our friends and allies around the world. We are not the Lone Ranger. We will not preemptively attack another nation where we do not have solid proof they are a threat to us."

"We will withdraw from Iraq as soon as we can get assistance in stabilizing that country. We will bring our troops home. We will protect our nation and our borders and the people of America can feel secure that we will do that without having to surrender any of our hard-fought freedoms. We refuse to go along with these "Chicken Littles" with their color-coded fears, hiding in unknown locations whenever their paranoia starts to overwhelm them."

"We will protect our country and we have the means to do so. But we do not have to live our lives in fear. We will continue to hunt down those responsible for 9/11. And we will find them. The American people can be assured of that. We refuse to be guided by the fears of George W Bush and Dick Cheney. It's time for them to put their Patriot Act under their arms and get out of town. We've had enough of their type of "leadership".

[aquart]

48. Then we better make sure not to neglect the Congress votes.

Right?

[[e-mail]]

49. It will have something to do with the candidates.

As much as I like some of them. Neither of them are as charismatic as Bill Clinton. If Clinton were running against Bush, George wouldn't stand a chance.

[LauraT28]

51. This is scary...

but probably true.

I lived in Florida in the 2000 election, in Palm Beach County. What a clusterf$@# that was.

One of the scariest aspects is the "electronic" voting. I voted once after they implemented it in Florida. WHAT A FUC&ING JOKE! After you touch the screen, you have no idea what or who you voted for. You don't get a printout or anything to make sure you've voted the way you meant to vote, and who knows if you even voted at all. I'm afraid that Georgie will win again, despite the backlash against him.

Don't know if I can stand another four years of downward spirialing!

[Q]

52. It wasn't an 'accidental' clusterf**k....

- This is how the New Republican Party operates. They accuse the OTHER side of cheating and instill fear and cause confusion in order to muddy the results and voter intent.

- Let me say again: GWB* won't win because he's the better candidate. In fact...his past disqualifies him for office. Rather...he has a good chance of winning because he's part of a political 'mafia' that will help buy and intimidate his way back into office.

- All of this is the result of our government and the American people allowing Bush* to take office in the first place against the will of the people.

[BonjourUSA]

54. Let's glance at the crystal ball

The building of Europe gets speed.

Russia officially asks its ticket for EU.

BUT

Too quickly, Euro becomes the world trade currency. The US abyssal deficit isn't any more financed by the rest of the world. The worldwide economic crisis is enormous.

China feels surrounded and threatened, breaks its favored trade relationship with the USA and asks strongly the Tawain annexation

Saudia is afraid for its security and doesn't sign again contracts with the USA, like it began to do in July of 2003 when it gives its franchises for its greatest gas and oil fields to European companies (Total and Shell). The USA must to react if they don't want their appro to be too expensive for their lack of energy savings policy. (An American spends twice more energy than an European for a same life level)

The USA sink in a deep domestic crisis with very great threats against freedom. The candidate of the terrorists has been re-elected and the attacks against the american interests can spread all over the world, Bush reinforces Patriot Acts (But the former links between Bush and Bin Laden families could be totally revealed too. The civil war is not impossible).

The European and UN help stingily the USA in Iraq. This country becomes a training field for all the islamists.

Bush begins an ahead race and the peace of the world is in a very great danger.


Clearly, all we're in the shit


FIRE HIM !!!!!

[Q]

56. We're deep in it...

...and it's only the beginning.

- I have this gut feeling that won't go away. Can Bush* win despite being the most arrogant, corrupt and brutal 'president' in American history? Everything points to the scenario where the Bushies pull off another 'win'.

- At what point will the American people AND the Democratic party wake the hell up?