The Shelton comments about Clark

[Catch22Dem]

Ok, we all know the comment Hugh Shelton made about Clark earlier this year. My question (concern) is, why has he not said anything else about it? Are they waiting to spring some major accusation on Clark? I have to assume that Clark is confident that it's bullshit considering the way he's been challenging them for answers, but it still makes me a little nervous. Your thoughts?

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

1. Remember something:

Clark was a staff officer, a product of The Pentagon. Regular Army.

Shelton was a "snake eater".

A natural tension exists there, and has since the inception of snake eaters. Regular Army did not like the formation of an elite Army unit, feeling that such units were prone to excesses and working outside of the natural order of things.

Snake Eaters...well, they are what they are.

[Spazito]

2. I think Clark would have come out with something if Shelton....

had anything to back up his smear. In Clark's book he talks about the fight he had with the Pentagon regarding intervention in Kosovo and the policy differences they had. In Shelton's right wing mind, the fact that Clark actually fought and won that policy difference instead of towing the Pentagon line that armed forces are to fight wars not perform humanitarian duties, would constitute character and integrity flaws. Shelton is a shill, plain and simple, imo.

[jumptheshadow]

3. When Clark wins the nomination

I would love to see John Edwards act as a mediary between Clark and Shelton.

Clark could really give us a chance to see his diplomatic skills.

[slinkerwink]

4. I don't know, but what if the Right uses Colin Powell to smear Clark also?

[Spazito]

8. Unless Powell has anything concrete, which is doubtful...

it isn't a worry. If Powell uses the Shelton smear as the few other generals have, it will have no credibility.

Having the right wing generals out there against Clark will only strengthen the fact that Clark is unlike those in the military/industrial complex which, in turn, will soften those who have concerns about a military man in the White House.

[AmericanDem]

10. Powell had nothing but good to say...

about Clark. If memory serves me right, he mention how brilliant he was etc. He then went on to say he would have no further comments about the subject. I forget the show he was on, might have MTP.

[democratreformed]

11. Powell comments

Then General Colin Powell in 1982 said, "Wes Clark has been a superb battalion commander and will be a superb brigade commander. He is an officer of the rarest potential and will clearly rise to senior general officer rank. He will be one of the Army's leaders in the 1990's."

Powell's prediction proved true. By 1988, Clark served as director of the Battle Command Training Program. Just before rising to that post, Brigadier General William W. Crouch noted, "Wes Clark has the character and depth to be another Marshall or Eisenhower in time of war."

Link: http://clark04.com/records/

[bearfartinthewoods]

30. a 20 year old quote about potential won't stand up to the sheton crack

[Tom Rinaldo]

42. No Powell commented again recently

After the Shelton slur. He said only positive things about Clark, but carefully avoided getting further drawn into a discussion of what Shelton might have meant, he refused to comment about anyone else's opinion of Clark or what they might be thinking. In short, Powell was careful but positive. I saw the interview but can't remember where. Sorry.

[OKNancy]

9. They won't because

of all the glowing and on the record reports that Powell wote about Clark.

Of course other Democrats could say, "If Powell likes Clark, then Clark is bad".....now they wouldn't smear a fellow Dem now would they?

[mikehiggins]

26. Check out the records, Slink

Powell gave Clark an out-of-sight evaluation before Clark got his collection of stars.

He'd look like even more of a sellout trying to deny his official statement at this late date.

And who really cares what Powell thinks anymore? Any credibility he might have had went south the day he lied to the UN (and us) about the WMD's

[AmericanDem]

5. It is BS as you say

last i heard, Shelton is part of the John edwards campaign. Shelton has since coward away from any other comments because he knows he made a big mistake. Other Generals like Barry McAffery from MSNBC said he knows Shelton and Clark and he felt Shelton must now regret those comments.

[JI7]

13. but edwards has nothing to do with it

the shelton/clark feud goes back to when clinton was president. i think there was some jealousy involved. but for edwards he is getting advice from shelton because he has known him for years and it has nothing to do with clark.

[AmericanDem]

19. I never said..

Edwards campaign had anything to do with what was said about Clark. I was letting the poster know how Shelton is involved in the campaign process of another candidate.

[JI7]

21. ok, thanks

i just responded that way because many before have attacked edwards over it.

[tjdee]

6. Because it's not a big deal, that's why.

This was WAY overblown, especially at DU.
So what Shelton said something about Clark? Who cares what he thinks, really? He said what he had to say, there is no more IMO.

[democratreformed]

7. I have posted links

to many past articles saying that Clark's resignation was in no way a reflection on his performance. They all say (according to authorities) that it was to make way for a new commander who would be forced to retire if he were not moved up to SACEUR.

Do I need to post those again?

[democratreformed]

12. What the heck

Here's some new info from a person at the Yahoo group today:
OLD ARTICLE FROM NYT ARCHIVES...SHOWS THAT THE NYT NEVER REPORTED THAT CLARK WAS EVER FIRED


FOREIGN DESK | July 28, 1999, Wednesday
U.S. General Who Led NATO to Retire Ahead of Schedule

By DAVID STOUT (NYT) 700 words
Late Edition - Final , Section A , Page 8 , Column 3
ABSTRACT - Gen Wesley K Clark, who led NATO forces in Kosovo conflict, will leave post next Apr, three months ahead of schedule, and retire; will be replaced by as NATO Supreme Commander for Europe by Air Force Gen Joseph W Ralston; Clinton Administration and Pentagon officials call switch way to persuade Ralston to postpone his retirement, not maneuver to banish Clark, who favored tougher stance in Yugoslavia before and during bombing; photo (M)

No link posted with this one.

Next One:
GENERAL JOSEPH RALSTON HAD AN AFFAIR WITH A CIVILIAN EMPLOYEE IN 1986 ...AND A PROMOTION WAS BLOCKED FOR HIM IN 1997....HENCE CLARK WAS REPLACED WITH A SCANDAL PRONE GENERAL WHO HAD GOTTEN CAUGHT YEARS EARLIER. THE BRASS ENDED UP FINALLY BEING ABLE TO PROMOTE HIM.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F50D15FF3D540C778CDDA10894D1494D81

NATIONAL DESK | August 4, 1999, Wednesday
For a Scandal-Scarred General, the Gleam Appears to Be Back on the Brass

By MELINDA HENNEBERGER and ELIZABETH BECKER (NYT) 1655 words
Late Edition - Final , Section A , Page 10 , Column 1
ABSTRACT - Gen Joseph Ralston, whose promotion to Chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff was blocked in 1997 because of affair he had with civilian employee of Central Intelligence Agency 13 years before, is Pentagon's choice to replace Gen Wesley K Clark as supreme commander of NATO forces in Europe; photo (M) -------------------------------------------------------

AGAIN THE ARTICLE BELOW STRESSES THAT THERE WAS NO DIPLEASURE WITH CLARK'S PERFORMANCE

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F30913FB3C550C7A8EDDAE0894D1494D81

FOREIGN DESK | July 29, 1999, Thursday
Clinton's Adviser Defends Decision to Retire NATO General

By ELIZABETH BECKER (NYT) 801 words
Late Edition - Final , Section A , Page 3 , Column 1
ABSTRACT - National security adviser Samuel R Berger defends decision to speed up retirement of NATO Supreme Commander Gen Wesley K Clark by few months to make way for his intended replacement, Gen Joseph W Ralston; says move does not signal any displeasure with Clark's performance (M)

And the last one:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F60D1FFE3F5A0C758DDDAC0894D1494D81
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT WES CLARK SAID IT WAS; A PANTAGON POLICY DISPUTE BETWEEN COHEN, SHELTON AND CLARK

FOREIGN DESK | May 16, 1999, Sunday
CRISIS IN THE BALKANS: MILITARY STRATEGY; Pentagon Withholds Copters From Battlefields in Kosovo

By MICHAEL R. GORDON with ERIC SCHMITT (NYT) 1576 words
Late Edition - Final , Section 1 , Page 1 , Column 4
ABSTRACT - Pentagon blocks NATO commander Gen Wesley K Clark from sending Apache helicopters into combat against Serbian troops; Army leadership, Sec William Cohen and Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Gen Henry Shelton oppose using Apaches as too risky; dispute adds new strain to NATO's air campaign over Kosovo; Apaches are also not allowed to conduct 'live fire' exercises without Clinton Administration's consent; photo of helicopters on ground in Albania (M)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

CLINTON PROMOTED CLARK IN 1997.....THAT IS THE SAME YEAR THAT RALSTON WAS DENIED A PROMOTION

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F40B11FE345E0C728CDDAD0894DF494D81

FOREIGN DESK | April 1, 1997, Tuesday
Clinton Picks Army General to Head NATO

By PHILIP SHENON (NYT) 619 words
Late Edition - Final , Section A , Page 3 , Column 1

ABSTRACT - Pres Clinton nominates Army Gen Wesley K Clark, who helped broker 1995 Bosnian peace settlement, to take command of North Atlantic Treaty Organization and all American forces in Europe; 52-year-old general graduated first in class at US Military Academy; was reared in Arkansas and studied at Oxford University as Rhodes scholar; is generally considered to be more scholarly and politically wise than most of peers in uniform; photo (M)

[Spazito]

14. Thanks for this!

I love the very last sentence in your post: "is generally considered to be more scholarly and politically wise than most of peers in uniform;"

and therein lies the reason Shelton made his comments, Clark is very much more scholarly and wise than his peers!

[democratreformed]

15. Complements of Catherine McClendon

A very active poster on the Wesley Clark Yahoo group:

I purchased these from the New York Times Archives. Please print these out and/or save for your files. This information needs to be sent out to the press. I am tired of lazy reporters that would rather ask the same questions over and over again then to research the archives to read what happened. I so truly hate media whores. They make money doing nothing and are ruining our country in the process.
this is #1 in a series of 5 articles you will receive.

July 29, 1999, Thursday
FOREIGN DESK


Clinton's Adviser Defends Decision to Retire NATO General

By ELIZABETH BECKER (NYT) 801 words
WASHINGTON, July 28 -- The President's top security adviser today defended the decision to speed up the retirement of the NATO Supreme Commander, Gen. Wesley K. Clark, by a few months to make way for his intended replacement, and the adviser insisted that the move did not signal any displeasure with the general's performance.
''General Clark is a superb commander,'' Samuel R. Berger, the national security adviser, said. ''The President has the highest degree of confidence in him.''

-snip-

EDITED BY ADMIN FOR COPYRIGHT REASONS

[Nashyra]

17. They won't use Powell to attack Clark

or they shouldn't because there are some very dark moments about Powell and Vietnam. I think there were some threads here at DU and it had to do with MaiLai. I don't think they would like to open that can of worms.

[newyawker99]

28. democratreformed

Per DU copyright rules
please post only 4
paragraphs from the
news source.


Thank you

NYer99
DU Moderator

[democratreformed]

29. Sorry about that.

I thought maybe it was okay since this lady purchased these for distribution.

Edit: Do I need to go back and remove part of them?

[democratreformed]

16. Second full article - will post others as they arrive in my inbox

2 IN SERIES OF 5 ARTICLES DETAILING "RETIREMENT OF WESLEY CLARK". THIS ARTICLE IS ABOUT GENERAL RALSTON WHO WAS NAMED REPLACE CLARK EARLY. SEX SCANDAL ASIDE, THIS IS INTERESTING INFORMATION. IF THIS CAN BE HOUSE ON A WEBSITE....AND THEN WE CAN BE GIVEN A URL...THAT WOULD BE GREAT! LET ME KNOW!

August 4, 1999, Wednesday
NATIONAL DESK


For a Scandal-Scarred General, the Gleam Appears to Be Back on the Brass

By MELINDA HENNEBERGER and ELIZABETH BECKER (NYT) 1655 words
WASHINGTON, Aug. 3 -- At a level where there are few second chances in the United States military, Gen. Joseph Ralston has been not only redeemed but resurrected.
When an affair 13 years in the past blocked his promotion to the country's top military job two summers ago, the General never complained, associates say, and if he looked back at all, he never let anyone catch him at it. Instead, he made his new boss look good and put his hand up for sensitive assignments.

-snip-

EDITED BY ADMIN FOR COPYRIGHT REASONS

[democratreformed]

18. Third article

WHEN DOING A COMPARISON OF DATES....IT APPEARS THAT THIS MAY BE THE PROMOTION THAT PASSED OVER GENERAL RALSTON BECAUSE OF HIS 1986 SEX SCANDAL. WHICH CONFIRMS JUST THAT MUCH MORE WHY RALSTON AND THE REST DIDN'T LIKE CLARK, AMONG JUST PURE JEALOUSY!

April 1, 1997, Tuesday
FOREIGN DESK


Clinton Picks Army General to Head NATO

By PHILIP SHENON (NYT) 619 words
WASHINGTON, March 31 -- An Army general who helped broker the 1995 peace settlement in Bosnia was nominated today by President Clinton to take command of NATO and all American forces in Europe.
Gen. Wesley K. Clark, who is now the commander of American forces operating in most of Latin America, would assume the European post in July after Senate confirmation and would lead NATO at a time of historic shifts in the Western military alliance.

-snip-

EDITED BY ADMIN FOR COPYRIGHT REASONS

[democratreformed]

24. The fourth article - there will be one more

MORE ON CLARK WHO WAS "RETIRED"......AND NOT FIRED! SEEMS LIKE THE MEDIA WHORES KNOW MORE THAN THEY ARE LETTING ON. THEY KNOW WHAT HAPPENED, BUT WISH THAT WE SHOULD FORGET, OR BETTER YET, NEVER KNOW A LA 1984!


July 28, 1999, Wednesday
FOREIGN DESK


U.S. General Who Led NATO to Retire Ahead of Schedule

By DAVID STOUT (NYT) 700 words
WASHINGTON, July 27 -- Gen. Wesley K. Clark, who led NATO forces in the war in Yugoslavia, will step down as commander of the alliance and be replaced by a high-ranking Air Force officer, White House and Pentagon officials said tonight.
The officials said General Clark, 54, would leave his post next April, three months before schedule, and retire to civilian life. His replacement will be Gen. Joseph W. Ralston, who was in line to become Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff two years ago but had to step aside because of a problem in his personal life, the officials said.

-snip-

EDITED BY ADMIN FOR COPYRIGHT REASONS

[TacticalPeek]

32. Thanks for the information, democratreformed.

And thanks to Catherine McClendon.

:toast:

[LouisFC]

20. as an aside

I find it interesting that if Shelton was concerned about "character and integrity" issue with Clark that he would replace him with someone like Ralston who it would appear had issues of his own.

[Spazito]

22. Yep, good point!

[Donna Zen]

23. Ralston and Cohen

Cohen nows runs a defense consulting revolving door company and guess who's on the payroll? Yep, that Joe Ralston who also doubles as a Dean consultant.

That military further down the chain received jail time for the same act that secured a NATO command for Ralston really pisses me off. Never mind, that Clark got a knife in the back from these assholes.

The louder the cry for law and order, the more the theives and con-men multiple...Lao Tzu

[IndianaGreen]

25. But General Shelton works for the Edwards campaign

and if General Shelton really had the goods on Clark, he would have made them public by now. The fact that he hasn't means only one thing: this was nothing but McCarthyism!

I think the Clark was a bit too bright, and too educated, for some of those bozos we have wearing stars on their lapels.

[maddezmom]

31. just wondering

Cohen is a republican, what about Ralston? Is he on record on party affiliation?

[TacticalPeek]

27. Clark: A Touch of Class

During the many times Clark has addressed his replacement as SACEUR, I have sometimes heard him mention that he was told it was done to make room for Ralston.

However, I have never heard him mention why there was a rush to move Ralston in, or Ralston's "troubles", although he obviously would have been aware. So, tip of the hat to Clark.

Any exposition of such matters is properly in the provenance of the press. You remember how the press works, right? They just pucker up their lips and blow.

[democratreformed]

33. Excerpts from another article

"Differences on Strategy A Source of Tension :The tensions that have emerged between the Pentagon and General Clark's staff often reflect institutional differences over approach and strategy. " THIS LINE IS IN THIS STORY...WHICH IS EXACTLY THE REASON CLARK GAVE WHY LARRY, CURLY AND MOE DON'T LIKE HIM ANYMORE....NEVER WAS CHARACTER OR INTEGRITY, BEYOND THEIR OWN!


May 30, 1999, Sunday
FOREIGN DESK


CRISIS IN THE BALKANS: THE LEADERSHIP; War's Conduct Creates Tension Among Chiefs

By STEVEN LEE MYERS and ERIC SCHMITT (NYT) 1910 words
WASHINGTON, May 29 -- The civilian at the top of the American military, Secretary of Defense William S. Cohen, rarely speaks directly to the commander running the war in the Balkans. Aides to the commander, Gen. Wesley K. Clark, derisively call him ''Senator Cohen'' since he spends more time advising and cajoling his former colleagues in the Senate.
The soldier at the top, Gen. Henry H. Shelton, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, is the general who speaks when spoken to. He is said to be unwilling -- or unable -- to air the Pentagon's misgivings about the war, though during a recent White House meeting he bluntly ended a discussion about sending ground troops into a ''semi-permissive'' situation in Kosovo, without a peace agreement.


''It's like being a little bit pregnant, sir,'' General Shelton told President Clinton, according to an official familiar with the discussion.

Together, Mr. Cohen and General Shelton are President Clinton's top military advisers as the NATO campaign in the the Balkans grows into its third month, but in a sense they are not its leaders.

SNIP
Inevitably, perhaps, tensions have emerged. General Clark's aides say that the Pentagon's caution and checks and balances clash with his war-fighter's urgency to press the fight.

SNIP
Compared with Mr. Cohen, General Shelton appears far less comfortable with his public role of explaining the war effort. As Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, he serves as the senior uniformed adviser to the President and Secretary of Defense. But compared with his predecessors, he has had a low profile.

''He's not uncomfortable being silent,'' one aide said.

SNIP
The tensions that have emerged between the Pentagon and General Clark's staff often reflect institutional differences over approach and strategy.

On matters of strategy, General Clark feels the Pentagon has not been as responsive as it could be, second-guessing his requests.

[JNelson6563]

34. I suspect there's nothing more to say

some nasty inferences to plant the seed/meme and there is no need for anything more. They ask every reich-winger about Clark and they regurgitate Shelton's baseless slurs and voila! Successful Propaganda 101.

Julie

[Tatiana]

35. Shelton is an idiot.

And Ralston too.

Why do these generals hate Clark so much?

#1 - He's "perfect." You know how there's the one girl/guy that truly gets on your nerves? Perfect looks, perfect education, perfect solution to every problem, perfect husband/wife, perfect children, perfect, perfect, perfect, perfect! Instead of "Marsha, Marsha, Marsha!" these people were probably shouting, "Wesley, Wesley, Wesley!" It's the envy factor.

#2 - He's confident. That confidence in the correctness of Clark's own POV has caused him to ruffle some feathers and in some cases go over the heads of his immediate superiors. But in article after article I have read on Clark's tenure as SACEUR, irrespective of Washington's lack of support for Clark, his opinions always turned out to be right (in hindsight, of course).

#3 - He ain't neva scared! They can't rattle this man. He feels his convictions so strongly that he won't be shaken. He will stand up to other generals, to fox news, to Tim Russert, to the right wing, to Ralston, to Shelton, and anyone else who wants to challenge him. He's not just a fighter, but he wins his battles.

#4 - He thinks outside the box. He is a very creative thinker and this probably scares a lot of people. We like what we know, or at the very least, feel comfortable with what we know. Change is scary. Use the military for HUMANITARIAN PURPOSES? Teach our soldiers how to BUILD and not just DESTROY? OMG!!! Horror!!!! Clark's INSANE!

The military couldn't accept someone who was a creative thinker. I mean, here's a military guy that thinks gays should be in the military and supports civil unions. OMG!!!!! The HEATHEN!

But if you listen, truly listen to the explanations for the positions he takes, even if you disagree, the man MAKES SENSE. He's rational. You can tell what led him to his conclusion. Unlike the Resident, who can barely recite lines from a teleprompter.

I truly believe that a man with as much intelligence, compassion, and creativity as Wesley Clark only comes along once in a lifetime. I hope the people get out and vote for him.

[gulliver]

37. So true. But also...

#5 They (the other generals) are probably Republican.
#6 Shelton is a jerk and probably realizes a bunch of his toadie "proteges" are gonna get sacked if Wes becomes CiC.

[Tatiana]

39. DING DING DING DING DING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#6 Shelton is a jerk and probably realizes a bunch of his toadie "proteges" are gonna get sacked if Wes becomes CiC.

Gotta protect his cronies. He's afraid of Clark cleaning house. And Lord help him, cause who knows what information he might find out in the process.

[arewethereyet]

36. i gathered that he thought he had said all he intended to say

and if Clark gets the bid, you can bet your fanny that they will trot out truckloads of stuff.

[oasis]

38. Hugh "the shill" Shelton is the one who's integrity should be questioned.

[FrenchieCat]

40. You can read the actual articles on my

wes site......http://frenchiecat.forclark.com/

[Clark Can WIN]

41. Those comments by Shelton are beginning to hurt Shelton

Much more than Clark. The official DOD account can be found here.

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/May2000/t05022000_t501koso.html

The more Clark calls him out on it the more obvious it becomes that Shelton was talking out of his ass.

[FrenchieCat]

43. The article about Ralston is interesting.......

Ralston was also turned down for a promotion in 1997...the same year that Clark got his promotion as SAUCER. Wonder if that's the job Ralston was denied? I guess I'll go back to the old research board!

Lawmakers and officers praised General Ralston, who is 55. ''Joe Ralston will be very good,'' said Tillie Fowler, a Florida Republican who is on the House Armed Services Committee.

A highly decorated former combat pilot in Vietnam and an administrator known for his skills at building a consensus, General Ralston withdrew from consideration for Chairman of the Joint chiefs two years, ago after it became known that he had an affair in the 1980's while separated from his wife.

He had planned to retire next year to Anchorage, Alaska. But in his last two years as vice chairman, his 18-hour days, for example seeing to details like accompanying Ms. Albright to visit the Chinese Ambassador here on the night a NATO plane bombed the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade, helped erase military and Administration concerns that he could not surmount the adultery reports.

[FrenchieCat]

44. This excerpt of this article tells it all

From New York Times Archives......
CRISIS IN THE BALKANS: THE LEADERSHIP;
War's Conduct Creates Tension Among Chiefs
http://frenchiecat.forclark.com/

Unlike their predecessors from the Persian Gulf war, Dick Cheney and Gen. Colin L. Powell, who drew up war plans and gave Gen. H. Norman Schwarzkopf, the commander in the field, more firepower than he wanted, Mr. Cohen and General Shelton have an entirely different relationship with their field commander.

Even though the two, as President Clinton's war chiefs, have authority over how American forces are used, the war is not being run from the Pentagon's war rooms. Nor is it run day to day from the White House. Although President Clinton also reviews the most sensitive targets and weighs in on significant decisions, his direct participation in the military planning is said to be episodic.

Instead, General Clark, an American who is the allied commander in Europe, is charged with running the war from Belgium. But he must answer not only to his own political leaders but also to the leaders of an often unwieldy NATO alliance of 18 other nations that acts only by consensus.

That has turned Mr. Cohen and General Shelton more into managers than commanders, trying to balance various domestic and international demands while maintaining support for the effort. Reflecting the Pentagon's wariness over the war, Mr. Cohen and General Shelton are resisting any escalation of the conflict that would draw the military into the ground campaign.