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OKNancy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-03 03:23 PM
Original message
From Kucinich to Clark - a personal journal
The following was a post to the Clark blogs. It is posted with the author's permission.

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Posted to artemisia's weblog on Sun Nov 23rd, 2003 at 11:12:59 AM EST

As I've been reading blog entries yesterday and today, I've noticed a fair amount of criticism of "hyper liberals," Dean supporters, and "draft dodgers." I urge bloggers to think twice before alienating a population that may very well decide who gets the Democratic nomination.

Today's poll asked where we would rate ourselves on the political spectrum. Twenty percent of us rate themselves as very liberal / green. But even the "very liberal" category may be too conservative for me. I define my political position as progressive, radical, lesbian, feminist. I pride myself on being the kind of woman that keeps Bill O'Reilly up at night with nightmares of being neutered by "feminazis." I am the kind of progressive feminist that drives Rush Limbaugh to drugs.

I guess it's a Talking Heads day for me today, because as I think about finding myself now becoming a Clark supporter, I find myself singing: "And you may ask yourself -Well... How did I get here?"

What follows is a very long explanation of how I became, however reluctantly, a Clark supporter. Normally, I wouldn't expect anyone to be interested in the details of my thought process on something like this, but I think there may be some value to my putting it out there in this forum. You see, I'm thinking that the biggest obstacle to Clark winning the nomination, and eventually the election, is people like me.

People like me don't come to support a military general easily. People like me will surely fall in behind Clark if he wins the nomination, under the "anybody but Bush" rationale if for no other reason.

But people like me really want to vote for Kucinich, Sharpton, or Mosely-Braun and wind up supporting Howard Dean because we know our true favorites aren't electable. The problem is that while we are a sizeable enough share of the Democratic party to affect the nomination, we tend to nominate people that simply can't win in a race decided by a much larger, much more conservative mainstream electorate.

For idealists such as myself, every election boils down to questions like "Just how many of my values am I willing to compromise this time around?" and "When do I get to vote for a candidate I wholeheartedly believe in?"

Like every good progressive, I downloaded my Bush countdown clock in December 2000 and have anxiously watched it tick off the number of days and hours until his term is over. By June 2003, I was already interested in Dennis Kucinich and by August I was signing up as a Kucinich volunteer. He has walked the walk of progressive ideals in his personal and political life and his positions most closely match my own.

But then Carol Moseley Braun came along. And how could I not support such a vibrant, articulate, intelligent woman! I quickly sent her a check.

And despite his past anti-Semitic comments (since apologized for), who couldn't love Al Sharpton? He shined in the debates, speaking truth from his heart with such wit! I still smile to myself imagining him waking up on his first day in the White House and changing the locks to make sure Bush couldn't get back in! And even though I'm a strong believer in non-violence, Al Sharpton is serving an important role in these primaries as the official donkey kicker.

But despite my idealist, progressive soul, I have a practical brain. I know that mainstream America votes for white men with good hair and short last names. Kucinich, Moseley-Braun, and Sharpton don't stand a chance.

That still left me a long way from considering General Clark. My goddess! He's a (*&&*^% General! There were plenty of other, seemingly more appropriate candidates to choose from, candidates with a lifetime commitment to progressive, or at least democratic principals. Let's face it; the military is not a democracy.

Lieberman was out, of course. I saw enough of him in the last election to know that he's just a repub dressed in a donkey suit.

Kerry seemed promising. He certainly has better military credentials than dubya when it comes to the "war against terrorism" and that would help him get more conservative voters. And yet, he came back from war as a strong anti-war protestor, which earns him my vote. He's from my home state and so I've watched him over many years. He's got a good history of doing right by the citizens of Massachusetts and usually voting the way I would want my rep to vote. But his campaign never seemed to catch fire. He seems tired, lacking in passion. Moreover, good hair aside, a rich liberal senator from "the Peoples Republic of Massachusetts" just isn't going to win many votes in the South or Midwest.

Edwards was certainly electable by the short name, good hair standard. And he's got the Southern thing going for him. But frankly, he just seems too inexperienced. Choosing a candidate is not just about picking someone who agrees with you policy-wise, it's about hiring someone with the skill sets to run a large, complex bureaucracy, someone who has a lot of experience in the inner workings of government. And in this case Edward's good hair may work against him, because he probably looks too young to be elected as a wartime president.

Gephardt on the other hand has tons of government experience and his daughter is a lesbian and a progressive! And Gephardt has paid his democratic dues; he's been fighting the good fight for working people for a lot of years, long before anybody noticed. But Gephardt supports the Iraq invasion and dubya's doctrine of pre-emptive punishment. If his daughter Chrissie was running in his place, I would vote for her, but I think this doctrine of pre-emption is extremely dangerous and I can't possibly support Gephardt for that reason.

Which of course brings me to Howard Dean and the reason I am writing this long entry to begin with. There is no doubt in my mind that if Clark can get the party nomination he will win the election. But the biggest obstacle to his getting that nomination is people like me. Most everyone I know from my progressive, radical, lesbian, and eco-feminist circles has gravitated toward Howard Dean. The few that haven't are still hanging on to Kucinich, Mosely-Braun, or Sharpton.

Why is Howard Dean so attractive to people like me? Well he's the former governor of the state that gave us civil unions for lesbians and gay men, the very same state that gave us Ben and Jerry's ice cream. He meets the white man, short name electability standard, and his hair, though not as good as some other candidates, isn't horrible. But most importantly, Howard Dean spoke up early and vehemently against shrub and against Iraq invasion. He was the first in the field to get attention for criticizing the current administration. Most of us progressives know that Kucinich was making the same complaints much earlier than Dean, but Kucinich's voice never really rose above the din.

Howard Dean's campaign is structured in a way consistent with progressive principles. It is a bottom-up, grass roots campaign. I have a friend who likes to say that conservatives may have a monopoly on radio, but progressives have the internet. Dean tapped into the progressive voices on the internet and took them to heart. He set the standard for internet-based campaigning. His bloggers feel like they have real input into important campaign decisions. And what grassroots progressive couldn't love the notion of a campaign dedicated to financing itself with zillions of small individual donations instead of a few very large corporate ones? Kucinich, Mosely Braun, and Al Sharpton may live progressive values in their personal and political lives; but Dean was the first candidate to find a way to make progressive values an integral part of his campaign structure. Every other democratic candidate is playing catch-up with him in this regard, including the Clark campaign.

Privately, many of the Dean supporters I know suspect he can't win, but cling to a hope that maybe, this time, it's finally "our" time and "our" candidate will prevail. We are not quick to give up the dream of having a progressive government structured with integrated progressive ideals working to make this country better for every single person who lives here.

And besides, the only candidate left to consider is General Clark, a man who has devoted his career to the business of killing.

So how did I wind up a Clark supporter instead of a Dean supporter? And how can I convince other progressives to make the same leap?

Well, for starters, I live in Maine, a state very much like Vermont. Maine, like Vermont has a mostly homogenous population. The entire state has fewer people than the city of Houston. Our largest cities are no bigger than small suburbs of places like Chicago, Los Angeles, or New York. Being governor of a state like Vermont, New Hampshire, or Maine doesn't begin to qualify a person to preside over the complexity of the Federal Administrative Branch. Don't get me wrong. I love living in Maine. The advantage of these small northern states is that we get to be more flexible, more innovative, and more creative in the way we govern. It's the upside that offsets the downside of 8 months of cold weather. But I just can't conceive of any way that President of the United States is the next step up the promotion ladder from Governor of Vermont. Maybe if Howard Dean spent a good 10 years in the U.S. Senate dealing with issues of a national scale, or spent some time governing a bigger state like New York or California, he would then have the requisite experience to deal with issues faced beyond the borders of Vermont.

And as much as I would like to envision a world in which a Kucinich, a Mosely-Braun, a Sharpton, or even a Dean could win the Presidency, the reality is they can't. Maybe pre September 11<sup>th</sup> they could have had a chance. But not now. I can't see moderates and centrists choosing instead of George dubya Bush a candidate with no national, international, or military experience. Of course, dubya had none of that experience going into the job either, but that's irrelevant now. At the moment, in the minds of many moderates, dubya has proven his skills in those areas. Those folks won't take a chance on Howard Dean in a head to head match up with Bush.

So it was only after eliminating every other conceivable candidate, that I began to look at THE GENERAL. And much to my surprise, every single preconceived notion I had about a career military candidate for President was shattered. I was suspicious that Clark would run a top-down operation, an authoritarian campaign in which higher ups (large donors and campaign and party professionals) devised campaign strategy and assigned tasks to underlings. Frankly, I've seen a lot of campaigns run this way and so of course a General would run his campaign this way. Wrong! I find myself surprised at how grass roots the Clark campaign really is, starting with its origins as an internet-based draft movement.

Frankly, I expected THE GENERAL to be more like Lieberman, more supportive of the pre-emptive punishment doctrine and more conservative on social issues like abortion and gay and lesbian rights. Wrong again! Instead I find that Clark is much more open minded, liberal and progressive than I ever expected!

I also expected THE GENERAL to have way too much testosterone. I expected to find a man who was patriarchal, authoritarian, defensive, and dismissive of dissenters. And there are enough career military personnel who fit that description to justify my expectation. But again, I was wrong! I find Wes Clark to be cordial, respectful of all people, surprisingly laid back and soft spoken. I noticed the way he works the room after the debates. Many candidates shake the hand of one person while looking at another and waving to a third person. Clark always looks people in the eye and gives them, for the moment that he has with them, his full attention. It shows his sincere respect for people.

OK, so the General wants a constitutional amendment against flag burning. I strongly disagree. But I can respect the personal emotions that lead him to his position. His is not a blowhard "America love it or leave it" attitude. His willingness to ban this form of dissent is forged in blood and sacrifice and the highest ideals that he sees the flag as standing for. I don't need to agree with him on this flag burning question in order to support him. I am satisfied that Wes Clark supports and encourages the democratic principle of dissent and free speech. He just personally loves that flag.

Women's issues. As a feminist, this is a litmus test. I expected to find in THE GENERAL a candidate who was simply oblivious to women's issues. Women survive in the military by adjusting to a male culture. What could this General possibly know or care about women's issues. And yet, what do I find on his website? Links to progressive feminist sites, including groups fighting domestic and sexual violence against women!

So in the end, try as I might, I couldn't find a single reason not to support Wes Clark. All of my preconceived notions and prejudices about what his military career said about him were just wrong.

Oh, there was that pesky "integrity" issue that kept popping up. But try as might to find some substance there that could justify not supporting him, I could find none. There was nothing there. Petty envies, bad feelings about promotions, policy disagreements, and typical bureaucratic rivalries. Nothing you don't find in any large organization. I've seen the same thing in corporate environments. But try as I might, I could find no evidence of any deep seeded character flaws.

Instead, what I did find is the compelling story of him repelling down that cliff face in Bosnia in an attempt to rescue some compatriots. And I have to ask myself, who among the current field of candidates would risk their lives in such a way? Not Howard Dean, I'm willing to bet. And certainly not our current President George dubya Bush.

So here I am, with my progressive, radical, lesbian, eco-feminist politics, supporting a 4-star General for President. And doing so not just because he can win and anyone is better than Bush. But supporting him because, surprise surprise, he has good progressive policy positions, the skill sets and experience necessary to lead a large administrative bureaucracy, and a very personal, very tangible, very real respect for all people, regardless of status, wealth, race, education, gender, sexual orientation, religion, or national origin.

He doesn't just talk the talk of progressive values. He holds those values dear. They are the values that define his sense of patriotism.

And yeah, he's electable. He can easily win in a head to head match up with Bush on matters military. He's a white male, he's got the short last name and the great hair. In fact, he's got the best hair of any candidate.

But I find myself supporting Clark not just because he's electable, but because he's an electable candidate that I actually believe in. I don't have to compromise in order to support Wesley Clark. All I had to do was get over my own pre-conceived notions about military men.


http://artemisia.forclark.com/story/2003/11/23/111259/00
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eileen_d Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-03 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. Thanks - it's a good piece
Edited on Sun Nov-23-03 03:33 PM by eileen_d
I do like to see people's opinions posted like this, since I spend time on DU going through the same process.

It would be amusing (in a tongue-in-cheek way) to have this as a campaign ad tagline: "(T)ry as I might, I couldn't find a single reason not to support Wes Clark." ;)
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-03 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
2. Very thoughful, well reasoned confessional. Thanks for posting.
I like this theme: Why I switched to Clark.
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-03 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
3. What about economic issues?
Did that enter into your decision at all? Kucinich is most supported for his uncompromising stand for working class Americans and unions. Why were you a Kucinich fan before?

I ask because I'm a long time Kucinich supporter that was also an early member of the draft Clark movement.

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OKNancy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-03 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. You could go to the blog
on the link and ask. I'm not the author, although I love DK.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-03 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
4. Wow, this is a wonderful, well-thought-out piece....
I know I can identify with a lot of the initial concerns the writer had and how they were, one by one, dispelled by the General's words and actions. Thanks for posting this!
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-03 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
6. What a very well-thought out and
What a very well-thought out and perceptive statement. I personally think that General Clark decided to run for the sincerest of reasons: what GWB is doing to America. I have watched some of his appearances on tv and he seems to be the opposite of Bush. He is even-tempered (except when Fox questioned his support of the troops), intellectually superior, proud of his country for the right reasons, a military man who was down and dirty with his troops, not afraid to tell it like it is, etc.,etc. I haven't decided for sure who I am going to vote for, but Clark is closing fast as my number one choice. I think Clark could probably win Kentucky, which would be a coup that I would love.
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MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-03 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
7. WOW! I'd love to see this on Buzzflash's website!
:kic:
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Marlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-03 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Thanks OKNancy
What a thoughful, well written piece. I agree with you, Clark is
the man I feel will take Bush down. The first time I ever heard
Clinton campaign, I felt he had the best interests of everybody in
America and the entire world. He gave me a good feeling. You
know a woman's intuition is a gift from God - I feel the same way
about Clark. He's a fine, decent man, who will do the very best
he can for everybody and I sincerely believe, he's running because
he felt the country needed him to, not an ego thing, etc. The more
I hear him, the more I admire him and feel he's our best hope for
the future of our country. He's beholden to no special interests
which certainly adds a big plus to his list of attributes.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-03 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #7
26. Me too!
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wellstone dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-03 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
9. Worth reading
kick
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-03 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
10. I have cleared the next two hours to read this.
Seriously, before I read it... Many people here have noticed that CLark and Kucinich are a lot alike. DK is a little further left from Clark, but not much. And they share many ideas.
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-03 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
11. Oh, I see, Dean can't win--he is unelectible because he was elected
governor of the state of Vermont 5 times, but Clark, who decided he was a Democrat a week or two before declaring, after fundraising for Republicans and heaping praise on Bush, not to mention the fact that the author states "General Clark, a man who has devoted his career to the business of killing"...I don't think so. Sounds like an intentionally designed testimonial to me. There have been alot of those lately in attempt to erode Dean's internet activist base. Say what was that again about Clark being a corporate hack who, along with Lieberman, argue against corporate restraints? Progressive? Not.

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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-03 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #11
20. Oh, so anyone who supports Clark is disingenuous?
"Sounds like an intentionally designed testimonial to me."

Good god!
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #11
36. Time for litmus tests ran out. We need solutions. Clark has them.
Who said what and when are pathetic excuses. The General's election will be about war and national security. And for that we need Clark:

"
"Some say he's a nobody general who will fade once the real Democrats get a good look at him.
Maybe, but I'll tell you what I think.  He's running for president, and he is not used to losing.  And if he gets the nomination, he'll go up and down this country and beat on President Bush like a drum.  He'll do 2,000 yards every morning; he'll rappel down any cliff he needs to; he will shake off any small-arms fire as if it were a swarm of gnats.  And he'll get better at the game each and every day.
He hates to lose.  And he doesn't run from fights.
And even if he's never played the game, he's never a beginner at anything.
Dismissed."
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Dr Satan Donating Member (183 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-03 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
12. sounds like a marketing major
fits the basic outline of marketing scams.

Testimonial- check
Threats- check
lack of substance- check

I give the author credit for doing homework but no sell.
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wellstone dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-03 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I don't think it's a scam
The author originally posted on the clark community network. I suppose it's possible that it's a scam and all the other testimonials that followed are scams too. But I don't think it's likely. I do think the post is thoughtful. And I do agree it is well-researched.
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RandomUser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 04:29 AM
Response to Reply #13
29. Thanks for posting this
Edited on Mon Nov-24-03 04:31 AM by RandomUser
It was interesting and thoughtful introspection. I rummaged around on CCN and found the link to the original posting.

http://artemisia.forclark.com/story/2003/11/23/111259/00

You can go there and post comments for the author if you want. You don't need to register to comment, but if you don't register, your comment would show up as anonymous.

edited to add: and you're right about the piece being originally posted on CCN, meaning it's preaching to the choir, so hardly likely to be a nefariously contrived markeeting attempt made up from whole cloth as the clark bashers intimate.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-03 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Posting your thoughts isn't necessarily an attempt to sell. If you don't
agree, fine. The hostility in a comment or two above
is wearisome. I don't care for Dean much but I would
never say so with disgust. Someone loves him and that's
good enough for me.

Let me edit the above. I do like Dean because he's
kicking bush's ass. Good enough for me. If I or anyone
else likes clark, it doesn't denigrate the others. I
hope they all kick bush's ass. God bless them all.
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-03 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #12
21. The levels of lowness to which folks sink to "get Clark"...
is getting quite impressive.

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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-03 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
15. What kind of judges would Wesley Clark appoint?
The official Wesley Clark website says he'll appoint judges who are "fair" and "independent," but I need more specifics before I'll support him.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-03 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. He has discussed it...
though I can't remember where. I am not sure, but he is pro-choice and opposed the Partial Birth abortion bill. Clark will be on C-Span tonight at 9:30 EST. He gives a great speech with lots of Q&A before and afterword. You might want to ask on the Clark blog. Someone might have an answer.
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-03 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. His position was that he would appoint judges that would look at...
the law and not have idealogical agendas.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-03 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. Clark mentioned
Souter and Stevens as judges he admired when asked at a couple of town halls.
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-03 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Thanks. Souter and Stevens were both
Thanks. Souter and Stevens were both appointed by Republican Presidents.

John Paul Stevens by Ford and David Souter by George Herbert Walker Bush.

Most of their votes have been ok, though there are some I strongly disagree with.

For example, Souter wrote a majority opinion that there is no Constitutional limit on how petty an offense a person can be arrested for, and that was a 5-4 decision.

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wellstone dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-03 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Regarding judicial appointments
http://www.americansforclark.com/story/07/

"I believe in appointing judges with diverse backgrounds who are fair, independent, and committed to law over ideology," Clark said. "I believe in treating those judges with respect and letting them do their jobs free from surveillance and intimidation. And most importantly, I believe in upholding the Constitution all the time - not just when it is convenient."

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wellstone dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-03 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. a little more on judges
http://www.clark04.com/chat/transcript.html17:22:27

Q: Joanna Eldridge - Wellesley, MA - As President, you have the responsibility to appoint judges, please describe what you would look for in a judicial nominee.
17:23:12 A: General Clark - Joanna, I would not use a litmus test, but I would look for mena nad women who would approach each case with an effort to discover the facts in an impartial way, would consult and respect judicial precedent and would uuphold the Constitution. I am against judges who try to advance ideological agendas on the bench.


http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/special/president/issues/index.social.html

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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-03 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
18. Wow! That was my journey and about the same way I feel...
though I am male.

Frankly, I think Clark is just one of those rare birds
that loves the country more than just about anything else.
I also think he is of the intellect to dream about and move
us toward a better America.

He and I disagree on a few things but he's one of the few
that I think have paid the price to earn the office of Presidency
that supercedes my pet issues.
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Gloria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-03 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
22. Says a lot of what I've been feeling/thinking....
eom
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-03 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
25. As a French Socialist/ex green
I loved your reasons, and they are mine too. As a person who has only lived in Paris and the S.F. Bay Area (Berkeley) I can attest to your testimonial as coming from your heart.

Cool, Clark's back on C-Span.
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Adjoran Donating Member (650 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 04:25 AM
Response to Original message
28. Clark's strong suits
are his broad appeal to independents and his intimate knowledge of foreign policy and the bureaucratic establishment.

His commitment to progressive social policies and knowledge of domestic policy in general have yet to be tested.

He seems to be getting better as he goes along. Considering that he started from "go" in politics, that's very positive. He is definitely a candidate who could be elected next year, and is on my short list.

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MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #28
35. Clark is AWEsome. He's magnificant. He can beat the *.
And, above all, he can resurrect our rightwing desicrated democracy!

GO GENERAL CLARK!!!
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wellstone dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
30. kickiing
and kicking
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RandomUser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
31. She posted a follow up
Following the huge response she got from people on the CCN, she posted a follow up article that's every bit as insightful.

http://artemisia.forclark.com/story/2003/11/24/12822/032
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Nederland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
32. Funny
She likes Kucinich, Moseley-Braun, and Sharpton--but dismisses Edwards as being too inexperienced? Doesn't make much sense to me...
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saoirse Donating Member (257 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
33. Very well stated
I also disagree with General Clark about the flag burning amendment, but it does illustrate that he's not afraid to say what he thinks, even if it might do some political damage. I think this also shows that his positions on the issues are genuinely his, rather than the result of polls and focus groups.

But the flag burning is a relatively minor issue (to me, anyway), and one just about everything else you can name I pretty much see eye to eye with the General. I do agree that he needs to emphasize his economic plan a lot more, and present at least one real economic innovation to separate him from the rest of the field. That said, I think the same could be said for all the candidates - whoever is the first to come up with some really good economic idea that catches the imagination of the public has a good chance of getting a big bump in the polls. I hope it's the General.
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ErasureAcer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
34. Clark gave plenty of praise to Bush
and I didn't see him hoo-hawing about Iraq when he was on CNN this past March and April.

He has given speeches for Republicans! This guy doesn't seem very genuine at all.

Even Brokaw today called him out on his double-talk speech on Iraq.

I won't be voting for Clark.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. "Even Brokaw"? You mean the guy touting W's Medicare expansion
and begging every candidate to admit that W was God and they were scum of the earth? Well, that tears it. If Brokaw called Clark on it, it must be important. I am now stomping my Clark badges and getting ready for the Kool-Aid. :eyes:
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