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WillyBrandt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-03 09:25 PM
Original message
Canadian DUers: Tell us who to like
Could anyone give us Canadophile DUers a quick lesson in Canadian party politics?

What's the Canadian "version" of the US Democratic Party?

Is there a Canadian version of the wishy-washy DLC (Democratic Leadership Council)?

Who are the crazy right wingers? What power do they have?

Who are the not-crazy right wingers (the "Rockefeller Republicans")?

Do you have a bunch of think tanks and that kind of crap mucking it up?

Anything else interesting for us to know?

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Maple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-03 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
1. Canada has
a left wing under Jack Layton...the NDP

a right wing under Stephen Harper...the CA

and a center party...the Liberals...under Jean Chretien.

There is a 'Progressive Conservative' party as well under Peter MacKay, but they are set to merge with the CA.

All polls...for years now...have shown an overwhelming preference for the Liberal party...party of the center...and they just elected a new leader...Paul Martin...to replace PM Jean Chretien.

He says he is also center...and neither left nor right wing. The 'third way'

Canadians love him so far...they probably won't in a few years...but right now he is poised for a massive majority win.
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Maple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-03 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I should add
that the right wing has maybe 10% in the polls...same for left wing, and they've both been that way for years.

The right wing...our freepers...have been confused amateurs for years.

The Liberals have had to shore up finances...eliminate the deficit, and pay down the debt, so they've had to cut back on things and have been seen as slightly right-of-center because of it.

So no one is likely to move right...if anything they'd move left in a national electon...expected in early spring.

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WillyBrandt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-03 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Could you expand the acronyms
I could figure some out--but just to be sure...

CA
NDP

Also, are there any Quebec centric parties? Do they have a national role.

Off topic, but why is it that when I visited Montreal all the girls were so beautiful. Wowzers--it was like I visted another planet...

Sorry :)
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Maple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-03 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Sure
Edited on Sun Nov-23-03 09:44 PM by Maple
The CA is the Canadian Alliance...actually the 'Canadian Conservative Reform Alliance Party'....but that spells CCRAP, so they don't use it much. :D They are social conservatives.

It has become an annual tradition for them to change their name...they started out as Reform, then went to United Alternative, then CCRAP, then CA...and now are about to 'merge' (hostile takeover actually)with the PC party and become the 'Conservative Party of Canada.'

It hasn't yet occured to them that the initials CPC are also those of the Communist Party of Canada, and no one has let them in on the joke. ;-)

The PC party stands for the 'Progressive Conservative' party...socially progressive, fiscally conservative. Almost gone.

NDP stands for the New Democratic Party...they've been around for over 60 years so should change their name from the 'new' stuff.

Quebec has the BQ...the Bloc Quebecois...it only exists in Quebec, and is never going to form the national govt. Mostly they're a pain in the patoot to everyone, and no longer have a purpose since separatism is dead in Quebec.

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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-03 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
3. Here is my take on your questions
1. What's the Canadian "version" of the US Democratic Party?
Ans - The Liberal Party

2. Is there a Canadian version of the wishy-washy DLC (Democratic Leadership Council)?
Ans - Each party (Liberal, Alliance, Conservative, Bloc Quebecois, New Democratic Party) all have backers but I don't know that they would equate the the way it works in the US

3. Who are the crazy right wingers? What power do they have?
Ans - The Alliance Party - a Republican-lite party, definitely right wing, they love the US Repubs, when they grow up they want to be just like them. They have little real power - currently get about 13% in the polls.

4. Who are the not-crazy right wingers (the "Rockefeller Republicans")?
Ans - That would be the soon-to-be-defunct Conservative Party - the Alliance is working towards taking over the Conservative Party in what is laughingly called a merger.

5. Yes, there are conservative and liberal "think tanks" that put out material that reflect their agendas and support their parties.






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American Renaissance Donating Member (330 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-03 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
4. Canada
I am not a Canadian... yet (ask again next November), but I have lived here since I was a kid.

The Liberal party is basically most of the political spectrum, no one really has a problem with them.

There is a democratic party, but it has been a joke since the sixties when Pierre Trudeau took the Liberal party to the social left.

The Social Credit\Reform Party\Canadian Alliance\Reformed Conservative Party\Whatever are the nutjobs. They change their name every few years, but it doesn't get them anywhere.

The old "Rockefeller" conservatives are the Progressive Conservative party who are in the midst of a merger with the crackpots. It isn't going to go anywhere... it never does, but hey, they are dying as a force as most of the traditional PC base move to the Liberal machine.

There are a few thinktanks here, but they are basically broke and irrelivent.
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democratreformed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-03 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Love your name
It echoes my feelings.
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_Jumper_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-03 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
8. Canadian conservatives
Where on the American political spectrum would Canadian conservatives fall? Would they be considered moderate here?

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WillyBrandt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-03 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Northeastern Republicans
Conservative Democrats.

That what it seems to me, anyway.
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Maple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-03 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Well at the moment
we have two 'conservative' parties...but they are about to merge.

The CA is extreme right wing...they are merging with...actually taking over...the PC (progressive conservative) party which is far more moderate.

Once merged...as the 'Conservative Party of Canada'...they will be on a par with your religious right wing Republicans. They are already being called Republican North. Or 'fruitcakes' for short.

Freepers...nutbars.

Neither of them can make it on their own...they are hoping that by merging they will appeal to more people. Not a chance.

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Screaming Lord Byron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. It's all regional. Where I live (Calgary) we have some rabid Bush fans.
But there's not too many of those, not even in Alberta.
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Some Moran Donating Member (675 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-23-03 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
11. Hmm...
Could anyone give us Canadophile DUers a quick lesson in Canadian party politics?

Five parties:

Liberals: Have more seats than the other 4 parties combined in Parliament, Tend to be a centrist party but probably have more progressives than they do conservatives (although close to 35% - 40% of Liberal MPs are homophobic). Have been right-of-centre on fiscal issues, fairly progressive on social issues thanks to Jean Chrétien's iron fist. Like Chrétien's politics but find him very corrupt, perhaps at a level comparable to Brian Mulroney. Probably much like the Democrats, but generally left of the DNC. (although this is based more on leadership, as low-ranking elected officials have less influence in Canada than they do in the U.S...Which can make things a bit dull sometimes...lol)

NDP: A social democratic party and home to progressives and socialists. Currently led by formor Toronto city councillor and left-wing activist Jack Layton. Charismatic and extremely articulate and intelligent. A member of Socialist International and home to many left-of-centre people who are uncomfortable with the entrenchment, corruption, and special interests that characterise the Liberal party. Currently have 14 elected MPs. (out of 301) (Personal interest note: The NDP is pro-Taiwan, being smart enough to recognise that A-bian is more progressive than those red fascists on the wrong side of the Taiwan straight. Prominent NDP MP Bill Blaikie has condemned China for aiming WMDs at Taiwan.

Progressive Conservative: During the days of Brian Mulroney, over 2/3 of the House of Commons was PC. (In 1993, however, so hated were they that they went down from over 200 to just 2 MPs.) Have been through 4 leaders in the past 10 years (I liked Clark and Charest a lot, but am not crazy about Campbell (that bitch was a fucking B.C. socred...How somebody who finished last in a leadership convention won by the comedically inept and corrupt B.C. premier William Vander Zalm got to become Prime Minister of Canada is well beyond me) or MacKay), and still as weak as ever. Ideologically, a couple of them might as well be New Democrats, but some are at least as far right as the Alliance. It was even crazier during the Mulroney years, as the party was a coalition of everyone from hard-right fundie-Nazis to greedy continentalists to leftist Quebec sovereigntists. Only has 12 MPs in Parliament and is planning merger with Canadian Alliance. (Note: Contrary to what Margaret Thatcher may thing, Progressive is not an adjective describing the party: It is actually part of the noun, as the party is a merger of the Progressive and the Conservative parties, much like the Republicans of the late-1910s and 1920s was a merger of Republicans and Bull Moose progressives.)

Bloc Québécois: A sovereigntist party. Generally left of the Liberals right of the NDP, but not monolithically so (Quebec's provincial legislature, in contrast, is monolothically liberal on social issues...Even the retarded separashits). Most Péquistes endorse marijuana legalisation, and they all want Quebec to be independent of Canada, obviously. These people used to be in Mulroney's PCs.

Canadian Alliance: To say that these guys are quite as bad as the GOP is hyperbole: A few of them aren't as backwards as believed, but the vast majority are bigoted, puritanical, and spread their legs for corporate, American, and Christo-fascist special interests. (Of their over 60 MPs, only 2 are generally considered to be socially liberal and none are progressive on economic issues) Their most recent rare moment of conscious was siding with the NDP in support of a resolution endorsing Taiwan's ascension into the WTO. Generally a party of right-wing Western populists. Claim to not be corrupt, but there is reason (based on their pre-CA records of some members) to believe otherwise.

What's the Canadian "version" of the US Democratic Party?

The Liberals.

Is there a Canadian version of the wishy-washy DLC (Democratic Leadership Council)?

Some of the more conservative Liberals. The ones endorsing war in Iraq, bitching about same-sex marriage, and supporting the War on Drugs.

Who are the crazy right wingers? What power do they have?

The Canadian Alliance. They control about 1/5 of Parliament. No real power aside from the privileges they receive as Official Opposition

Who are the not-crazy right wingers (the "Rockefeller Republicans")?

There are a few social liberal fiscal conservative people in the PCs, including former leadership hopeful Scott Brisson. Paul Martin may also be that way. (I pray that Mr. Brisson doesn't go insane when the PC and the CA merege, as I'm not sure many in the CA will like the idea of working with a gay man. Interestingly enough, a high-ranking member of Stockwell Day's personal campaign team back in 2000 is gay.)

Do you have a bunch of think tanks and that kind of crap mucking it up?

We have some, but they aren't as involved as you are.

Anything else interesting for us to know?

I want to build up our military so that we can implement radical policies without fear of American retaliation. But then again, I'm not sure most Repukes will like the idea of 10 states (assuming the territories are treated as a single state and only Alberta usually votes Repuke) that will vote Democratic every election. hahaha...I bet the Greens will turn into a separatist party if Quebec ever becomes a state.
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Screaming Lord Byron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
13. Here's some personalities, if it helps to orientate you.
Edited on Mon Nov-24-03 09:41 AM by Screaming Lord Byron
Our Side-

Jack Layton - leader of the NDP (our Old Labour party) - good guy, enthusiastic, articulate, unfortunately not an MP. Yet. He's in a similar place to Dennis Kucinich

Jean Chretien - Outgoing Liberal PM. Flashes of brilliance, long periods of stubborn mediocrity. Always his own man, though, and did a lot to stave off Quebec Seperatists. Garbled of speech and clear of thought, all in all a good man. No US equivalent.

Paul Martin - New PM. Competent Finance Minister, possibly a little too fiscally conservative, but talks a good talk on social and foreign policy. Good friends with Bono, apparently. An unknown quantity as yet - similar to Wes Clark perhaps?

Pierre Trudeau - Our Kennedy, without the whole assassination unpleasantness. Arrogant as hell, smart as any world leader, stubborn as a mule, indomitable. Trudeau could be described as a brilliant bastard (in the best possible sense, of course)

Their Side

Stephen Harper - A complete non-entity with appalling hair. Leads the Canadian Alliance, our Republican party. Will never be PM of Canada.

The Parti Quebecois / Bloc Quebecois - Quebec Nationalists. Constantly trying to disguise rabid xenophobia. Will never win.

Unplaceables

Joe Clark - Former Tory Leader. A terribly nice old man, but rather dull. Basically a centrist, we all quite like him, but could never vote for him. At least as left as Joe Lieberman.

David Orchard - The most confusing man in Canadian Politics. If you could imagine a Social Democratic Conservative, Orchard is attempting to save the PC (Tory) Party from absorption by the CA (Alliance). He will not succeed, and might as well join the Liberals or even NDP.
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