Alternate Reality

[coloradodem2005]

What would have happened if the Florida Recount was not stopped back in 2000?

What would have the last 3 years had been like had Al Gore become President?

Would September 11th happened?
Would there Be a Patriot Act?
Would we have gone to War with Iraq? Afghanistan?
If 9/11 happened would we have caught Bin Laden?

[TheUnknownPoster]

1. Bizarro World President Gore

1) 9/11 - Yea. I never heard anything that really makes me think a different president could have prevented it. The Clinton years gave us the first World Trade Center attack and the African embassy bombings too.

2) Patriot Act - Probably. After 9/11 there was an outcry for something like this, and it passed with wide bipartisan support whether it had been read or not. But without Ashcroft it might not have been as bad.

3) War with Afghanistan - Most likely. The Clinton years also gave us the first strikes against terrorist camps in Afghanistan, and the public mood practically demanded something like this after 9/11. But maybe they could have negotiated with the Taliban to get bin Laden extradited or something.

4) War with Iraq - Definitely not. Gore wouldn't have been as susceptible to neocon visions of a remade Mideast and the greatness of war.

5) Bin Laden - Maybe if the #3 scenario had played out, and if we hadn't shifted focus to Saddam and Iraq. But I'm not sure what else he could have done differently to change things.

[coloradodem2005]

2. What about the economy?

Would there be and have been more jobs. Would the recession and 9/11 have hurt us this much?

[TheUnknownPoster]

5. Maybe, maybe not

I'm not sure how much control the President actually has over the state of the economy. He can only nudge it one way or another and hope it starts up.

[Capn Sunshine]

9. The economy would definitely be better

Silicon Valley wouldn't have tanked as hard, nor the NASDAQ, because Gore would have ordered a complete re-do of the Federal computer system, long overdue. All those equipment orders would have propped up the credit vehicles, instead of seeing them wither in 24 hrs after *'s inauguration and defacto declaration of war without end on the economy of California, which in turn precipitated a huge crash of a recession on the nation instead of the touch and goes (soft landings) we saw under Clinton.

[FunBobbyMucha]

8. Would've possibly set up Bush 2004-2008...

...9/11 was gonna happen regardless, and the frustration for a grieving nation is that, Afghanistan aside, there is no convienent target to fight. The Repugs would right now be making Cartereque hay about Gore's inability to stamp out terrrorism (which is essentially Prez Al's reluctance to bomb the shit outta someone just for the sake of closure), chumming the red meat accusation of Presidential Weakness faster than Sheriff Brody at the back of the boat. A huge constituency of America, even me to some extent, wanted to see somebody suffer for what happened to us, and Gore wouldn't have given them the connect-the-unconnectable-dots scapegoat Chimpy did. JunkieBoy and his legion would be hammering away at how the whole unsatisfying episode was the distillation of the entire Clinton/Gore era.

JunkieBoy would've never come "clean" under a Democratic president. He would be on extended holiday "for health reasons" or a Repug wetworks agent would've already "retired" him.

Trey and Matt's hilarious "That's My Gore" would be enjoying its third hit season on Comedy Central. I think Kevin Nealon would be playing Al, but I'm not sure.

[Capn Sunshine]

10. 9-11 WASN'T "going to happen regardless"

I think a Gore administration would have DONE SOMETHING seeing as how no less than six countries' security agencies gave us the info on the attackers, their locations, names, and flight schools they were in,in advance, and the CIA's August briefing to Bush was entitled "Bin Laden determined to strike".

I somehow think Gore wouldn't have been quite as lax, as he didn't need an excuse to provide a war for his main contributors.

[politicat]

3. Short answers: Maybe, less ugly, 3a-no, 3b maybe, who knows

Now for the essay answers. These are opinion, mine and only mine, based upon my own reading and understanding of the political situation. Circumstances in your alternate reality may differ.

9.11 might have happened, but it would have been different - recall the Clinton administration knew something was up and it got lost in the shuffle over a dress, a cigar and a blow-job and a land deal that lost money. It could have happened, but I don't know how it would have been different. Or it could have happened the same way, and our response might have been different.

The Patriot act would probably not happened as fast (but since this is a congressional issue, it would depend on who was Att. Gen., who controlled the house and senate, and how ticky the FBI, CIA and NSA were being.) I also think the last minute changes that the repugs dropped in wouldn't have happened and the injunctions would have come a lot faster.

Going to war with Afghanistan is a possiblity, if nothing else for the human rights and drug problems they had there. It would not have been a scrag, shag and bag operation. We would still be there, it would have been with UN support (which we had to an extent in Afghanistan, but we needed more) and would have resembled Bosnia far more than this fiasco we're in.

I don't think Iraq was a possibility, or if it had happened, it would be a more "proportional response." We are way out of line in proportional response - I've been re-watching the first season of The West Wing and comparing the "fictional" proportional response to our responses.... And looking at Clinton's record on this. We would not have bombed the countries into the Old Stone Ages (Paleolithic for you archeologists) as we did with Afghanistan and Iraq.

Bin Laden is always the hm... depends on who we believe. If he really is the baddie, black-sheep that the BFEE and co. protray him as, then maybe. We probably could have persuaded someone in his family and within the Royal Saudi family to give us the key. But if he's not, then no. We're not going to catch him as long as his family and money and ties to the Royal Sauds are protecting him, and the president, who ever s/he may be, isn't going to be very effective that way.

Politicat (who is feeling a sudden need for a tin hat and her passport..... :tinfoilhat: )

[Cleita]

4. I don't think any of those things would have happened.

We have truly been robbed by the Bush crowd, not only of our vote, but our whole country and what we thought we stood for.

[Ficus]

6. Yes, maybe, no, yes, maybe

IMHO,

1. Yes, September 11th would have happened. Al Qaeda plans years in advance, not months. If you'll remember right, there were plans to assasinate Bill Clinton by Al Qaeda. I don't think UBL worries too much about party affiliation or the little letter (D or R) next to your name in the newspaper.

2. First off, it is the PATRIOT Act. It was a really stupid acronym that made one think that being against it was "unpatriotic" instead of being against the UNITING AND STRENGTHENING AMERICA BY PROVIDING APPROPRIATE TOOLS REQUIRED TO INTERCEPT AND OBSTRUCT TERRORISM (USA PATRIOT ACT) ACT OF 2001. Either way, I believe that there would be some things that were included (not ALL of it was evil) and some that wouldn't get in under an Gore Administration.

3. Afghanistan, yes. No President could let the US get hit hard like that and not apprehend or kill those responsible. Iraq, well, probably not, but Clinton could be a hawk on that issue. I'd guess Gore would continue the policy that Clinton had of containment using political, economic, and air strike pressure.

4. Maybe, but who knows. That question goes deeper than who won in 2000, I think.

[Walt Starr]

7. No, No, No, No, Probably

If Gore had been president, I believe we would have caught at least half of the hijackers prior to the act blowing their plans.

It was all spelled out in January of 2000. Bushco ignored the intel and called off the dogs.

[tom_paine]

11. No Sept 11th, no unPATRIOT Act

However, a continuation of Cole and Embassy bombings that would have ultimately compelled Gore to act, in spite of the massive Bushevik opposition to strike their darling Bin Laden and shouts of "Wag the Dog!"

No war with Iraq. Containment strategies would continue.

Had 9/11 happened, yes we would have caught the old Bushevik business partner Bin Laden. But he would have been killed before he could give his damning testimony.

[AG78]

12. Yes

The way I see it, stuff happens all the time, no matter who's in office. But that's the way the system wants it. It needs it to stay alive.

Every 10-15 years, something big happens. That something may or may not include the world community, it may just be domestic(although that eventually effects everything else). Just go back through history. 2001 with 9/11. Late 80's and the fall of the Soviet Union. Late 70's/early 80's with the rise of the Islamic revolution, directly or indirectly thanks to what we helped happen in Iran in 1953. Watergate, and Vietnam. Kennedy assassination. Korean War. WWII/nuclear bomb. Just keep going back, and every 10-15 you'll find something that shakes the world in some way. Sometimes, like the Cold War, it's just an umbrella that keeps the world in constant fear for many years.

Every decade there is a war. You can't name a decade since recorded human history where there hasn't been a war, somewhere, invloving someone. Not always us. But recently we've been involved in almost everything in some way.

And every year that goes by, various events happen(bombings(like the 93 WTC bombing), an overthrow of a government here, an overthrow there, and the like) that eventually lead to something big happening every 10-15 years, which then leads to a war.

Would 9/11 exactly happened if Gore were in office? We'll never know. But the world was due for something around 2001. May not have been that year, it might have been sometime in 2002, or 2003, but somewhere in that range.

So my advice is to watch for something big between 2010 and 2015. I'm only going by past history. And there has to be a war somewhere in the world between 2010 and 2020, most likely involving us in some way. We're the #1 dog.

The real question is, how do we as a world get out of this cycle?

[noonwitch]

13. Without 9-11 happening, the rest would not have happened

I think that it's a 50/50 thing. Maybe the program that Clinton had in place would have stopped it, or a President Gore may have scrambled jets quickly enough to shoot a plane or two out of the sky before they hit buildings. It's hard to say.
He may not have signed the Patriot Act, or may have insisted on getting rid of some of the more facist parts and stuck with the parts that deal with giving the pigs more wiretapping rights. It's hard to know. He certainly wouldn't have gone on tv on 9-11 looking scared to death.
If 9-11 had occurred, he would likely have authorized some type of action in Afganistan. I never had a problem with this-I'd been hoping for someone to get rid of the Taliban for a long time prior to 9-11. I had no problem whatsoever with bombing the hell out of those caves that they and Al Queda were holed up in.
We definitely would not have invaded Iraq.