so my main problem these days is that Clinton

[dawgman]

so my main problem these days is that Clinton


is now viewed as a leftist when in fact he was a centrist. My father used to say he was " the best republican the democrats had to offer." Meanwhile Bushit is viewed as a compassionate conservative or just right of center repub, when in fact he is a conservative extremist.

IMHO this means that the right is winning the battle for the hearts and minds of AMerica. Hands down...If they can convince us that a centrist like Clinton is a leftist rebel and GWB is a centrist then we have our work cut out for us.

[Punkingal]

1. True, so true.....

and isn't it just so depressing to think how twisted perceptions are these days? We do indeed have our work cut out for us.

[izzie]

2. Well it is classing by name.

All Scots are tight, all Fr. women have style, all Am are rich, all Dem want hand outs and all Rep know about money. Always interesting. Clinton was very un-dem if you ask me and Bush is the worst Rep I have ever seen. My poor father is still spinning in his grave.It is going to be hard to get people to face them selfs and the fact they voted for this man who lies about every thing and does not care a thing about them un-less they give him money to run or are rich.One hates to face your self and you could be taken in. Clinton's trouble with women cost us a great deal.We should have faced it before he went in, as I think we knew it.

[DeepModem Mom]

3. The right's success at changing our political language...

is astounding. Aided by a generation raised on Reagan, a no-nothing, compliant press, and unlimited funding, they have succeeded in moving what is perceived as the center far to the right. Republicans with views so extreme they would have been virtually unelectable in the past, now hold major positions of power in our government. "Liberal" has been demonized as a political label, and those who hold liberal views are now considered "leftists"; those once called "conservative" are now called "moderate"; those now called "conservative" were once called "right-wing extremists." And, while I now realize it wasn't politically correct, people in my neighborhood growing up -- Methodists, and even Baptists -- referred to those now known as "the Christian right," or "fundamentalist Christians," as "religious nuts."

[CWebster]

4. The entire frame of reference has slid so far to the Right

So now the DLC-Clinton forces still seek to aggressively maintain control with the candidacy of Clark---where the line blurs even further.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

12. so far right Dean is considered "liberal"

What's the policy differences between Dean, Clark, and Kerry? As far as I can tell, hardly anything.

[wyldwolf]

15. Which, of course, you can't prove...

[wyldwolf]

5. No one has ever said or implied Clinton was a "leftest rebel."

In fact, had I thought he was a "leftist rebel," I would not have voted for him twice.

He was/is a moderate liberal - left of center. Perhaps not as far left as you would have liked but if you're waiting for a president who is you're going to be disappointed.

Bill Clinton a republican?

How many republicans do you know who are pro choice, saying "Let women decide with their doctor and their God."

How many republicans do you know who worked to end racial profiling and end discrimination against people with AIDS?

How many republicans do you know who have appointed openly gay people people to positions? How many republicans were for including sexual orientation in hate crimes?

How many republicans do you know who have helped minority- and women-owned businesses compete?

How many republicans do you know who worked for binding treaties on global warming?

How many republicans do you know who support the Brady Bill and opposes assault weapons?

How many republicans do you know who increased minimum wages and worked to allow more family leave?

I could go on and on.

It's easy to complain about Bill Clinton and his "republicanism" until you're reminded of his positions.

Much of this new Clinton bashing on the left obviously stems from the unfounded belief that he is working for or against someone's presidential candidate of choice.

The perfect president only exists in our minds.

[NicRic]

6. Thanks for saying so !

People often need to be reminded that Clinton was as great as he was/is ! This President we now have has 1/2 the I/Q. of Clinton and apprently 1/2 the heart also. Clinton had a open enough mind to listen to all points of veiw of all subjects and then make an informed and objective policy. This guy we now have, I dont believe even makes policy , he only knows how to listen with one ear ,1/2 a brain and does what his elders tell him to !

[dawgman]

9. I think the terminology has been Hi-jacked by Rush and his compatriots

I don't think Clinton was evil, and I don't HAVE a candidate.
How many republicans do you know who are pro choice, saying "Let women decide with their doctor and their God."

How many republicans do you know who worked to end racial profiling and end discrimination against people with AIDS?

How many republicans do you know who have appointed openly gay people people to positions? How many republicans were for including sexual orientation in hate crimes?

How many republicans do you know who have helped minority- and women-owned businesses compete?


I know alot of repubs who think something like these things. They are libertarians.

If I want a president who is economically conservative and a social libertarian I'll vote for a libertarian.

[wyldwolf]

13. Really? Who...?

Libertarians are not republicans...

Of those issues I mentioned, name 1 republican who shares Clinton's positions on them.

If I want a president who is economically conservative and a social libertarian I'll vote for a libertarian.

That's the beauty of it. You can vote for whoever you want. But it will take more than your vote to get the guy elected.

[dawgman]

10. I think the terminology has been Hi-jacked by Rush and his compatriots

I don't think Clinton was evil, and I don't HAVE a candidate.
How many republicans do you know who are pro choice, saying "Let women decide with their doctor and their God."

How many republicans do you know who worked to end racial profiling and end discrimination against people with AIDS?

How many republicans do you know who have appointed openly gay people people to positions? How many republicans were for including sexual orientation in hate crimes?

How many republicans do you know who have helped minority- and women-owned businesses compete?


I know alot of repubs who think something like these things. They are libertarians.

If I want a president who is economically conservative and a social libertarian I'll vote for a libertarian.

[Bonobo]

7. Yes, Clinton took the DP so far to the center that anyone else looks

like a radical liberal. I don't see how we can recover from that.

Also, what democrat would have:

1. Signed that Welfare Reform law?

2. Incarcerate more people for Marijuana offenses than any predecessor (by far!) after admitting himself that he did it?

3. More or less continuous low-level (and higher sometimes) war against Iraq?

etc, etc.

I'm not Clinton bashing, but I truly feel he was too far to the right. My politics are so left of him that I felt unrepresented (almost) in my own party. Thank god for idealogues like Wellstone, et al.

[onebigbadwulf]

8. Don't forget NAFTA

and he also pulled some funding for family planning groups that advised abortions in some cases.

Clinton was a total moderate.

[sangh0]

11. Lucky you

My main problem is fascism.

[loyalsister]

14. Literary fraud

The meaning of the word "conservative" has been totally twisted. To many of us, it means a measured, cautious approach. Careful spending. Clothes that aren't flamboyant or flashy.
Then, there's Adam Smith. Who combined capitalism with Evolutionary theory to come up with a form of Social Darwinism that somehow was labelled "conservativism."
So, you never know what you're getting when they use that word.
If used in what I believe is the true definition, I don't think it's so bad. It's not such a bad idea to take a cautious approach to things. And it's a good idea to be careful about spending.
And as per Barry Goldwater's definition of conservativism- I am pro-choice and want the government to stay the hell out of my uterus.