Do union endorsements mean anything?

[Ficus]

I was talking to my Dad this weekend, he works for AFSCME Council 30 in Wisconsin as a contract negotiator, and I asked him how AFSCME came to the decision to endorse Howard Dean. He told me that it was all McEntee, and the "rank and file" didn't choose Dean.

It made me wonder if these endorsements translate into support. I know that Dean and Gephardt talk lots about their union endorsements, but I wonder how valuable they really are in terms of actual votes. I would suspect that Gephardt is going to get more out of these sorts of endorsements since he is seen as being a friend of labor for a long time.

Here in Iowa about 1 in 4 or so caucus goers are Union members. But that is because you have to be committed and active to caucus, unlike a primary. Some people are just too afraid or lazy to caucus. This makes the final tally of delagates skewed toward labor's candidate (and thus why I think Gep is doing so well here)

One advantage I would see would be additional manpower and dollars donated to a candidate, but who thinks these rank and file members will show up to vote for Gep and Dean in a primary?

[Tatiana]

1. I'm an AFSCME member as well.

And most of the people in my local don't support Dean either. Seems like most favor Clark, Kucinich, or Gep. I don't know about any other unions, but I think the AFSCME endorsement was between Dean and Clark and Dean pretty much outhustled Clark for the nomination.

[quinnox]

2. The membership all have their own minds

I think it helps, but it is misleading when they do stories on this or that union endorsing a candidate.

They always state the number of members in the union, as if all those people are borg-like and will vote the same way.

It's no guarantee the union rank and file will vote what the union bosses endorse.

[sangh0]

3. It helps tremendously

Regardless of how it's membership feels about the endorsement, the endorsement means that hundreds, if not thousands, of members will be working for their campaign. These unions members WILL work for the candidate, if only to get in good with the union leaders.

[ajacobson]

4. I dunno

Those years where the Teamsters endorsed the Republicans didn't necessarily swing huge numbers of rank and file members. Plus, different unions have different cultures. In Michigan say 20 or 30 years ago, the UAW, in my opinion, exerted strong influence over members in regards to voting choices. Now, I'd say the union is a moderate to weak influence. Unions more comfortable with mobilizing their members may be better able to actually get their members to participate in political campaigns, so that would be a plus for Dean with SEIU.

Union political activity has been somewhat dampened by anti-labor legislation and restrictions like the Beck rule (members can demand that their portion of dues only pay for the costs of representation and not political action).

[mikehiggins]

7. So twentieth century

The whole idea of endorsements carrying lots of weight. The single endorsement by MoveOn carried more weight than SEIU and AFSCME because it came with a check and no conditions.

The large number of people working to support "labor's candidate" is also dubious. I participated in any number of "campaigns" while in my union and the large majority of people I worked with were just going through the motions.

Time will tell but I think Dean will make a mistake counting too much on union members coming out in large numbers and supporting him. Maybe in the caucuses, but once voting starts there is no way to tell what is happening in the booth.

[Jerseycoa]

5. You can't count on votes

A union endorsement has tremendous value to a candidate in terms of money and campaign resources. It's like having a bunch of shadow campaign efforts: printing, publicity, GOTV, fundraising, you name it. I know that in New York City, for example, entire locals will show up to phone bank or rally for an endorsed candidate. This is because they are told to do it by the union leadership and they do it, some because they personally want the candidate, some out of loyalty to labor. But others do it because they don't want to appear disloyal to labor; it can mean the difference between working and not working (seriously).

Still, when it comes to actual voting, while some of the rank and file will vote the union slate, there's nothing saying they have to or will. In wanting to influence union members toward your candidate, don't even bother begging the union itself to endorse, because they won't care. Organize for the vote directly to the rank and file in neighborhoods and social centers.

[Kanary]

22. Welcome to DU, Jerseycoa!

I haven't figured out the fancy waving emoticons yet, but... sending you a virtual friendly wave.

Kanary

[blm]

6. Post 9-11, the most important union to get was Fire Fighters.

That is the one that damages Bush's image more than ANY other and will be the most valuable during the general election.

[Ficus]

8. Kerry

got that one, right? I noticed lots of Firefighters for Kerry shirts at the J-J last weekend.

[JohnKleeb]

9. Yep

[Hep]

10. Is thi sbased on actual evidence

or the fact that Kerry got some FF endorsements?

[blm]

12. 9-11 ring a bell to you?

Bush fully intends to make 9-11 the REASON to put him back in office.

The Fire Fighters are the most significant symbol of 9-11 and if they don't trust Bush and support Kerry, then, YES, it does matter to the general public who sees Fire Fighters much differently than you do apparently.

[Ernesto]

14. And when the Repukes have

their convention in NY city, wouldn't Chimp just love to have a few NY fire fighters up on that podium just for effect? SORRY, ain't gonna happen if their UNION has anything to say about it.

[Hep]

16. Wow, thanks for the elboration

This is the typical response.

I don't see how firefighter un ions are more important than anyone else. It isn't like whoever wins the nomination WON'T increase our readiness.

Your lack of substantive arguments is not surprising.

BTW, I live in ba right to work state.

[blm]

18. You see things differently than many Americans, then.

I think most American people consider the Fire Fighters with very high regard. The fact that they relate to John Kerry more than George Bush MATTERS. I would have to question your perception if you think that Fire Fighters, especially post 9-11, have no great influence in their communities or the nation as a whole.

[Hep]

21. Can't even post without misrepresenting, can you

Show me where I don't regard firefighters.

[blm]

23. That's not what I said. If you think

there is no substance to my assessment that the Fire Fighters are a significant symbol and a great influence, especially post 9-11, then I think your perception doesn't match with the American people. This is based on what I know about the fire fighters' influence in their communities. You don't think that assessment is substantive. I believe it is ACCURATE.

Read the words the way they are written. I never said that YOU have no regard for fire fighters.

[Hep]

24. There are a number of significant symbols right now

I don't see their endorsement as making or breaking a campaign.

[sangh0]

26. You're misrepresenting again Hep

No one said their endorsement will "make or break" a campaign. blm said it will have an influence.

In another thread, someone said that "some people are stupid" and you responded "Everyone is stupid?" This technique is so dishonest it has a name - argumentum ad absurdum

It involves exageratting your oppnents position to make it seem extreme. You seem to like this technique.

[sangh0]

25. You're misrepresenting, Hep

You said "I don't see how firefighter unions are more important than anyone else". You don't regard firefighters as anything special.

For campaign purposes, this election they are more important than most other unions.

[FreakinDJ]

11. I am a union member

I am a union member

Just prior to election our News Bulleton will publish a list of sugested votes.

On each cadidate they want use to vote for

and each measure they want passed.

Looks alot like a sample ballot all filled out.

The business agent will also come out to all the job sites employing 10 or more members. He gave a pretty compeling speach as to who and why we should vote.
Actualy last time I brought the sample ballot to work the day before election day and posted it so every one was awear of it.

[Jerseycoa]

13. Look at this

>Although the crowd of AFSCME activists was a somewhat disappointing 200, McEntee delivered a rousing speech calling on them to deliver Iowa to Dean on Jan. 19.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/997195.asp?0cv=CB10">MSNBC

Not a good showing for AFSCME.

[blm]

20. broken link.

.

[Ksec]

15. Being a former member of the Unted Steelworkers of America

I can tell you it means alot in terms of money being thrown into campaigns but little to do with influencing members votes. The members have their own minds and use them. Although sometimes that cauld be disputed when I see some union worker voting rethuglican.

[Ficus]

17. Why do we lose union members

to the Republicans? Is it the typical guns and gays thing?

[adriennel]

19. UAW in Michigan

still wields some clout, I hear.

[Yupster]

27. It means big money

and phone banks. It means lots.