Dean will be declared a winner of the debate

[Capn Sunshine]

because, even though he HATES this format, he kept his wits about him and let the others shoot themselves in the foot, so he didn't lose that supposed temper of his.

[AmericanDem]

1. he didnt keep his "WITS"

the man looked like he was shell shocked.

[rumguy]

4. shell-shocked?

he looked composed and dignified, above the fray...the bullets bounced off him tonite....

[DoveTurnedHawk]

2. You're Probably Right

As the front-runner, Dean wins by not losing. Especially when the venue is a little-watched cable debate.

DTH

[Walt Starr]

3. The pundits are already declaring him the winner

because he wasn't the loser.

[tjdee]

5. So if people think you're going to screw up and you don't, you win?

Is that how it is now?

People thought Bush would drool and grunt during the 2000 debates, he didn't, media people said he won.

Are you now saying that Dean won because he didn't get all fuming and crazy? Okay.....

I don't think anyone wins these silly debates. Too many people, same rehashing of the same things...

[pruner]

6. Dean wins when nobody knocks him off his perch

it's as simple as that.

[mth44sc]

7. The greater question is

Do WE win if Dean wins?

[dobak]

9. not likely

Unless he pulls off a miracle next November

[pruner]

10. I believe we do…

though I have no doubt there are plenty of people here who disagree with me.

[Upfront]

21. Hear Is One

Who agree's with you.

[FrenchieCat]

8. Dean wins...

cause the media whores said he did?...cause they want to hand his head on a platter to Bush...

Simple as that.....duh!.....

Bet Frank Luntz, Peggy Noonan and who else said it???? some Repugs' mouth pieces? Gee, let me connect the dots.....

In denial?

It's OK.

[rumguy]

11. maybe they're trying to psych us out

by making us think they like Dean hoping that will turn us off of him, when in reality they actually fear him....

[poskonig]

12. Republicans would rather run against Dean.

They believe Dean will be easy to smear. Though at this stage, it appears they aren't afraid of anyone.

[rumguy]

13. two million people donating $100 each

is something to fear...

[FrenchieCat]

14. Not really....

Money will not win the next election. I am sure that Bush will have one million people donating $2,000 each!

So that ain't what's gone do it.

Keep watching those media whores...and listening to them glorify Dean. They ain't doing it for you the politicos...they are doing it for Mr. and Mrs. America...it's their vote at the end that will count.

There is no double psychology here....they want us to pick Dean. Simple as that...and obvious too, to the intelligent ones that follow politics, that is.

[dfong63]

20. you're dreaming

I am sure that Bush will have one million people donating $2,000 each!

one million x $2,000 = $2 billion

no way.

[poskonig]

15. I'm talking about what the Republicans *believe*.

Dean's ability to create organization and shake down money is one of the reasons why I lean towards him.

The Republicans, always on the attack, believe they will have an opportunity to slander Dean with some of his past speeches where he dragged out the red meat -- and his positions on social issues, taxes, and the war. They also have a perception that Dean is a loose cannon who cracks under pressure.

[FrenchieCat]

25. Well

I say that the REPUBLICANS WANT DEAN because they will be able to raise more money than any Democrat can...period.

They want DEAN because of his LACK OF FOREIGN POLICY EXPERIENCE during a time that AMERICA IS AT WAR and running against a WARTIME president. A WARTIME president who is having the REPUBLICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION held in NEW YORK CITY -
Closing date - SEPTEMBER 11TH, 2004.

The fact that DEAN has NO MILITARY record will make military personnel not vote for him (10 million strong when you include thier family).

They want someone that will run with a TAX INCREASE proposal on the entire MIDDLE CLASS. Makes their job that much easier. They love his big expensive health care program. SO THEY CAN CALL HIM A TAX AND SPEND Democrat.

they want someone that will run badly in the SOUTH so that they don't have to spend a lot of time or money there.

They want someone that they can easily paint as a NEW ENGLAND RICH LIBERAL.

They want someone who's only experience is governing a small hemogeneous state as his only experience (600,000+ live in San Francisco)(600,000+ Puerto Ricans live in New York alone).....

YEP, THEY WANT DEAN alright!

[elfin]

16. Clark was declared "winner"

until Noonan, Luntz and other GOP "analysts" favored Dean - then the big switcheroo that Dean won by "not losing".

It is clear to me the media wants scrapper Dean to win the nomination so they can gut him during the election for his "temper." They are afraid of Clark - he might actually win.

I do like the Doctor - but like Clark better and I thought Clark "won" going away. But that won't matter unless the media fall out of love with a possible Dean debacle.

[rumguy]

17. I just find it hard to believe that the media

has coordinated some kind of pro-dean message. Maybe they really do think that since Dean is the front runner, and he didn't take any torpedos during the debate he's still the winner since all that matters is winning the nom and not one debate.

[poskonig]

19. Well, Clark was declared the winner by many.

I'm not convinced this is indicative of pro-Dean bias. I can't put my finger on why...

Seriously, though, Clark did a solid job tonight and deserves credit, though it is curious that when Dean speaks the same way, it is labelled as "anger."

Must be that "pro-Dean bias." :crazy:

[robbedvoter]

18. So far I heard Clark declared the winner. But the memo is not yet in

Brokaw is certainly sanitizing it all (see "Southern white males" and Sharpton - would you apologize for Brawley?) OTOH, he says to Dean: Gephardt called you devoid of compassion - yet you agree with him on Medicare ...Awww! hand this man a hallo! :eyes:

[unfrigginreal]

23. Try listening with both ears

and anyone besides Fineman.

[joefree1]

22. Dean looks great

He's smiling and let the shots bounce off. Man, I can't wait to go to my first meet-up.

[Cha]

34. Neat! That should be a great one in

California! Our Dean meetup in Central New York is going to be very important because it's about getting Dean on the primary ballot in New York. We have to collect signatures! :)

We're also going to say "Adios" to our co-corridinator for the meetups because he is in the reserves and has been called up! :(

[Demobrat]

24. He did win.

He spent the entire first half deflecting bullets. Nobody could touch him.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

26. Why can't he give a straight answer on cutting the Medicare growth rate?

KERRY: No, I want to talk about it, because Dick Gephardt is absolutely correct. And it's important to look at the record here.

The fact is that Governor Dean raised prescription costs for seniors in his state when he needed to balance the budget.

He called himself a "balanced budget freak" -- those are his own words. And what he did was raised those costs, as well as take money out of a teachers' pension fund in order to balance it.

Now, I have a different approach. I've asked the governor several times at several debates: Will he still try to reduce the rate of growth in Medicare? He's said several times he's going to cut the rate of growth in Medicare.

And I think it's important for people -- I've laid out a very specific plan. Governor Dean has no plan for actually balancing the budget or reducing the deficit.

And I'd like to know if he still intends to reduce the rate of growth in Medicare as one of the ways in which he's going to balance the budget.

BROKAW: Governor Dean, I know -- and this will be the last word on this.

DEAN: I most certainly appreciate all this attention that I'm getting.

We have never taken money out of the teachers' pension fund. That is grossly irresponsible. It has happened in other states, one of which I happen to have to say is Massachusetts, although I don't think Senator Kerry had anything to do with that.

We have never taken money out of the teachers' pension fund, and we have the best health care record of virtually any state in the country.

So a lot of these accusations are the kinds of things people go through to pick up little pieces of this and little pieces of that.

Look at the big picture: We've done a great job on health insurance...

KERRY: But you still haven't answered my question.

DEAN: We've done a great job on kids.

KERRY: But you still haven't answered my question.

DEAN: And Tom Beaumont wrote in the Des Moines Register weeks ago that Medicare is off the table.

BROKAW: Congressman?

KERRY: No, the question is will you slow the rate of growth? Do you intend to slow the rate of growth in Medicare because you said you were going to do that?

DEAN: Well, what I intend to do in Medicare is to increase reimbursements for states like Iowa and Vermont, which are 50th and 49th respectively.

KERRY: Are you going to slow the rate of growth, Governor, yes or no?

DEAN: We're going to do what we have to do to make sure that Medicare lasts...

KERRY: Are you going to slow the rate of growth, Governor?

(LAUGHTER)

Because that's a cut.

DEAN: Well, I'd like to slow the rate of growth of this debate, if I could...

(LAUGHTER)

... but we're going to make sure that Medicare works.

KERRY: Well, I'm sure you'd like to avoid it altogether, but...

BROKAW: OK. Let me ask you, Senator Kerry...

DEAN: Medicare is off the table.

We are not going to cut Medicare in order to balance the budget. I've made that very clear. I'll do it one more time.

We will not...

KERRY: That's not the question.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A10799-2003Nov24?language=printer

[poskonig]

27. Why? Gephardt would use it in an attack ad.

It clearly looks like Dean supports cutting the growth rate in medicare as an option. However, it is one of those things like "I want to raise taxes" politicians shouldn't say.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

29. In other words, if he tells the truth, it will hurt him?

[poskonig]

30. In this case, yes.

One doesn't give other candidates free material for their attack ads. For instance, none of the candidates say "I'm going to raise your taxes" when discussing the repeal of the Bush tax cut, though that is what it amounts to.

[FrenchieCat]

28. Dean did not win...

Don't fool yourself...

I'm sure that you are feeling the same as Bush supporters did when they saw that Bush had actually lost the debate, but the pundits said Bush had won and Gore had lost. Then of course all of the Bush supporters said....yea, he did win, didn't he?

Come on...don't fall for the stupid pet trick played by the media whores....you have got to be too smart for that!

Please connect the dots, otherwise, we as democrats will deserve what we get come November 2004.

I said never again...and that's what I mean.

The media will not dictate my candidate to me......the 2000 election should be your guidebook. Don't get trapped without it!

[poskonig]

31. F4C -- a comment

I agree that Clark did strong during this debate. However, I must point out--

Claiming the supporters of other candidates are duped by the media is an insult and won't persuade anyone to Clark's side. In addition, Edwards won a debate or two, along with Sharpton, but such things do not often translate into success along the campaign trail.

[FrenchieCat]

35. Don't get insulted, just connect the dots....

when rumguy with 1000+ posts says "I just find it hard to believe that the media has coordinated some kind of pro-dean message. Maybe they really do think that since Dean is the front runner, and he didn't take any torpedos during the debate he's still the winner since all that matters is winning the nom and not one debate."
duh....

and you said "I'm not convinced this is indicative of pro-Dean bias. I can't put my finger on why..." duh.....

Then you said "Claiming the supporters of other candidates are duped by the media is an insult"

I then have to shrug my shoulders, shake my head and say YEA? OK!

[Fleshdancer]

32. While I thought Dean did great...

...I thought this was hands down, Lieberman's best performance yet.

:silly:

[poskonig]

33. LOL!

:yourock:

[slinkerwink]

36. I agree---Lieberman did the best whining of any Dem on Hardball

afterwards----what a performance!

[Scott Lee]

37. Lesson for Dean tonight - let Kerry and Gep off themselves

while you just sit back and smile. It's working.

I'm sure that the Kerry/Gepites are going to throw a gasket over this, but my advice is call your candidates and tell them how stupid their attack strategy is.

Or not, that works for me too.