Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Democracy is dead - we've been overtaken by The Fascists

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU
 
Ugnmoose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 10:57 PM
Original message
Democracy is dead - we've been overtaken by The Fascists
If you still are one who chooses to believe that the good old US of A is the land of the free and the home of the brave let me introduce you to a dose of reality. Our democracy is dead, gone, bueried.

Take a look around you. Everything that impacts our lives day to day is now in the total control of a small group of powerful and influential corporatists. Sometimes referred to as the military and industrial complex, these so called giants of industry own us all. They own most of the politicians (at least the ones that are important), they own all of the major newspapers and televisions stations, they own the judges, the major banks and financial centers and they control our military. In other words they hold the hand with the four aces. We are doomed.

Though we the people far outnumber them, we are powerless to their will. We can no longer receive news and information that isn't fully sanitized. We can no longer express ourselves in mass protest without fear of falling victim to brutal force or recrimination. And our rights to privacy in our homes is now usurped at will without the slightest protection thanks to our infamous Patriot Act.

Thank God for the Internet. It is our last bastion of salvation, at least for now. However, I am sure that even this medium will soon be under attack.

While I would like to believe that electing a Democratic President will change things, I now believe that it makes no significant difference. Because whoever is in office quickly learns who calls the shots. And if they don't play ball, they will befall the same fate as our beloved JFK.

The only difference between Republicans and Democrats is that Repubs embrace the fascists while Dems tolerate them. Both domestic and foreign policy are shaped to appease the voracious appetite of these corporate cabals. Don't believe me just take a look at how the government spends our tax dollars and worse how it borrows to provide, protect and legislate programs that pay for the extortion. Names like Enron, Halliburton, Exxon Mobil, HCA, and on and on. And they must be fed constantly.

After the Cold War ended the U.S. no longer had an arch enemy to conquer - communism. So we had to create another enemy to justify a new financial feeding frenzy. That enemy is called - terrorism. And it is going to be with us for a long long time.

And as if to make it worse, these cabals are like a raging cancer eating and consuming their competition through outright acquisition or merger thus enlarging their sphere of influence. It is of no concern to them who they blow away, whose lives they wreck or how many loyal workers are unemployed through this process. It is all about greed, money, power and influence. And ultimately it is about total control and domination. They care not for the ultimate well being of this country they only care about what lines their pockets.

I am not sure what set of events or circumstances could change the course we are on. I suspect it would have to be something cataclysmic, perhaps a revolution. It is certainly beyond my level of comprehension. So while I amuse myself with the banter and political discourse over potential candidates, I offer this thought. Our choice of candidate will have little impact unless the system within which we live is totally overhauled and our government once again becomes one of the people, by the people and for the people.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Malva Zebrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
1. sure feels like that to me today
.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
2. The Great Depression II
Edited on Mon Nov-24-03 11:00 PM by w4rma
Either we stop that from happening by changing the policy that will enable it and which also gives the corporatists their power. Or we'll see another Great Depression from which either an FDR will emerge or America will emerge a 3rd world country.

IMHO.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Virgil Donating Member (410 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. could not agree more
This pill bill illustrates the takeover is complete. It is not enought that people die over the price of a few milligrams of a given substance. They do not care if you die, but they would prefer you live if they can suck money out of the treasury, even if it means pushing people into the emergency rooms at huge costs to the community. $400 billion has from Thursday to Tuesday to debate it and the fix is already in without it even being read and here we have a matter of live and debt.

Everything is on full rape. Foreclosures are at an all time high. The middle class is being wiped out or pushed down. The environment can go to hell and if people get sick that is just more pills to sell and more fear to sell insurance. The media could not be worse. The WOD that started the slide to a police state is not even a major topic in a presidential election year when we know it is a failure even if we do not get reporting from the devestation and civil war we impose on Colombia and Latin America.

It is screwed up for decades to come. America will never be the same in my lifetime. The government of the people and for the people is quite dead. The question is "Can we get it back before bankruptcy kills everything."

Kucinich is the only one I know of for socialized medicine. It will knock $200 million of administration out of the $1.4 trillion we now spend. Kucinich is the only one thinking of the general welfare or someone else would admit that monopolistic capitalism cannot be allowed to destroy the quality of life and take life itself so that others may game a system to look after the healthy or rich.

It is a very sad day if you watched Cspan and are old enough with a perspective more developed than sheep eating grass. There is a great depression among many seniors tonight, I can assure you. There will be plenty of commercials to help you find the right pill for you. Write them down and ask your doctor. Don't smoke pot to ease the pain. It is a dangerous drug and you would be supporting terrorist.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blue_Chill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:06 PM
Original message
I'm glad I don't see things that way
Edited on Mon Nov-24-03 11:07 PM by Blue_Chill
I have protested peacefully and suffered no beatings. So I seriously disagree with your statement that one can not do so.

As for the companies owning the news, they pretty much always have. News is business and they depend on income to survive, as long as they do (and they always have) selling a few more copies or getting a few more viewers is all that matters. Reporters no matter who their boss will sell their mothers for a story. So if you don't see what you want to see, it isn't the corporations at fault, it's the public that doesn't care and is more interested in what celeb slept with who.

Also you make it seem like there is some secret board room where all the CEO's meet and decide the nations fate. I don't buy it, these guys compete for bucks and as long as they do there is no secret rulers of the nation.

You want to identify your problem? It isn't corrupt politicians, or powerful corporations. It's people that don't vote, people that don't care, people that stand by and don't give two shits what happens in DC>
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
4. Well, how do you know there ISN'T a board room?
The meetings of the Defense Advisory Board seem like an adequate opportunity.

In general, isn't Cheney's energy task force feared to have been that sort of meeting?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blue_Chill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. There isn't
It's the same thing that has ALWAYS happened in the US. Rich special interest that control massive work forces and income the US depends on to survive get the President ear.

All of it could be stopped in a second of the public gave a damn.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ugnmoose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
5. Follow the money
Edited on Mon Nov-24-03 11:18 PM by Ugnmoose
The money will always tell you who controls whom. Take note of what companies and industries that are the big Republican donors. Take note of the people in government and what industries they came from.
Take note of the legislation geared to enrich the media (deregulation), the wealthy (tax bills), the defense contractors (war in Iraq), the energy industry (war in Iraq), the insurance companies (medicare bill). Please don't be naive. While I won't disagree with you that many people don't care. I would also argue that the reason they don't care is that they are blissfully ignorant. And one of the main reasons is that the little bit of news and information they get each day does nothing to educate them. Oh and by the way, for those of us who do vote, what confidence can we have in the voting system when we know that electronic voting can be rigged and there is no way of prove it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blue_Chill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Follow the votes
Look at our presidents record in Texas, and then realise the horrible truth. Almost half of ALL VOTERS supported him. half the public is dumb, the other half is greedy or not.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kwolf68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-03 12:20 AM
Response to Original message
14. Ever hear of Bretton Woods?

Didn't think so.

This "compete for bucks" mantra is complete bullshit. The last thing these people want to do is compete...So they monopolize, take over the workings of government and enslave the idiot consumers to whatever bilge they can market to the masses.

If left un-regulated, capitalism will become exactly what communism becomes...A selfish, corrupt, enslaving system where the very few dictate the lives of the very many. In fact, I argue...the two could work together. Imagine what capitalists could do if it had an ever willing government that would send military in to break strikes, would have government to do its bidding on the (choking) "open" market...Wonder why American businesses flock to communist China? You'll be told to "open new markets." Funny...those products are then sent right back to the "old" market right here in the USA as willing consumer-sheep lap up under-priced product produced on the backs of slave and child labor (think United States of America 1865-1900).

The only way we can truly have a good economy is to incorporate a little capitalism and a little socialism.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blue_Chill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
3. dupe
Edited on Mon Nov-24-03 11:06 PM by Blue_Chill
.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
izzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
8. I do think we are back to the 1880's and the age of greed
But I also say we were here in the 1920's also and came out of it. I still think it all goes in a wave and we are still going down and we will come out of all this. Well yes the wave may break first.Look at the great depression.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slaveplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
10. The endgame cometh
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ugnmoose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Chilling and very very scary
especially for those who believe in deja vu
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
11. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
JaySherman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-24-03 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
13. I would tend to agree
Edited on Mon Nov-24-03 11:52 PM by JaySherman
While I don't think the American democratic experiment is quite dead yet, I do often feel as though I'm on the deathwatch and waiting for last rites to be administered. That date will likely come on November 2, 2004. I'm holding out a final shred of desperate hope that the good guys can pull it out. But with the potential for more vote tampering and nearly half the voting population still incomprehensibly throwing their support the fascists' way, it seems less and less likely with each passing day that we can save what little remains of our democracy. And even if we do manage to pull the feat off, I agree that very little real change will happen until the institutions with the stranglehold on our government and society are stripped of their power. Unfortunately, the whole system would probably have to collapse in order for that to happen. I just hope the fascists don't destroy us all. I fear if they're allowed to continue, no place in the world will be safe. As it is, I'm preparing myself for a life as a permanent expatriate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Melodybe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-03 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. Whatever why don't we just surrender now?
Edited on Tue Nov-25-03 01:26 AM by Melodybe
Yes, I realize things look bad, but you have lost your mind if you think that we are outnumbered. We WON the vote last time! There is not a person in this country who voted for Gore that would vote for Bush, NOT ONE!!!! Those that lost their life savings to Enron or Worldcom and see Bush practically dancing with Lay are surely going to vote repub this time around, for sure. People that have been screwed by mutual funds fraud, they like Bush right now. I'm sure that the families of soldiers who have been killed or wounded absolutely love the President. The parents of some kid with severe asthma because the paper mill 30 miles away now gets to pollute the air as much as it wants, thinks that things are going great. Gay people think he's cool too. They just love how he appoints people that think their kind is an aberration. Hey, civil liberties, no one cares about those these days. Heck, black people love being reffered to as quotas. The list goes on and on. 3 types of people are still supporting the president right now: those that are already rich and are his "friends," those that aspire to hang out with Bush and his type of people, and those that simply hate the Dems enough to screw themselves over stupid moral non-issues. Don't let the media fool you, all types of people are getting more pissed off every single day. My husband was at Ace Hardware last month and over heard 2 rednecks talking about how they wish that they had not voted for Bush and that he was just a crook. I live in Mississippi and random rednecks are pissed! No one watches the damn news anyway, a total of 8.6 million people watch all the cable news channels combined, MSNBC, CNN, FOX: they all only pull in a few million people at the most. Out of almost 400 million people! Everyone else is either working too hard to pay attention, or gets their news elsewhere. Don't come in here and talk like this. Don't we already hear that shit enough as it is. Damn, if I hear CNN try to tell me that Bush is going to win one more time I might break my TV, but that doesn't mean I believe them. If you guys feel so helpless do something productive, we haven't lost yet, damn we still have a year left to make things better. If you want to, print out a hundred copies of an article you like that would never been seen on the mainstream news, and just leave them somewhere. However, you must check your sources. I think that salon's article on the Diebold machines is a great one that everyone in this country should know about. Do a freeway blog. My personal favorite say, "real soldiers are dying everyday so that you can play soldier in yours, 10 miles/gallon, 2 soldiers/day. I am organizing a night at the public library to show Manufacturing Consent and other movies that are informative and not necessary partisan. I am looking for a place to hold a free concert, and I am trying to organize a voter registration day at surrounding high schools. Things don't have to be this way and honestly it is this type of attitude that makes them happen. I understand that you are freaked, but step away from Democracy Now and just breathe. Yes, things are fucked up right now but if you think that the rest of the world will let Bush be President you're crazy. IT IS NOT THAT BAD YET, WE CAN STILL STOP THIS!!!! Please, do something.

Sincerely,

Melodybe

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John_H Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-03 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
15. Yawn. Did you see bachelor tonight?
I just couldn't believe what she told him that!!! That was soooooo cool. And Micheal Jackson? Oh. Ma. God.

And how 'bout that Packers game? Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!!!!!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-03 01:29 AM
Response to Original message
17. I don't think a Depression will make any difference
except to make many of us miserable.

It took WWII and its bastard child the cold War to put these monsters in power.

It will take a similar cataclysmic reshuffling to replace them--probably with nothing any better.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-03 01:34 AM
Response to Original message
18. Bravo! Bravo! Bravo!
You NAILED it!
BRAVO!
BHN
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Beam Me Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-03 02:16 AM
Response to Original message
19. The history our teachers didn't teach
I recommend this read:

http://nyc.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=82574&group=webcast

The average American, who spends his or her life chained to the machinery of wealth production, watching their share of its output dwindle steadily, sure as hell doesn't. The stratum of society that truly gains from all this just happens to be the same one that finds employment in high-level intelligence positions: big-time spooks like Kermit Roosevelt, the Dulles brothers, Nelson Rockefeller, George H. W. Bush -- i. e. America's ruling families. In their parlance, "US Interests" is just doublespeak for global empire and corporate colonialism, and these have always been the real purposes behind their warmongering.

All told, these wars killed over a million US soldiers, along with many times this number of civilians and combatants in the lands invaded, and this isn't even touching on the dozens of proxy wars that have been the American Empire's main battle front for going on sixty years. All of these millions of people, American and foreign alike, were MURDERED by a government intent on advancing the interests of a tiny minority while betraying the rest of humanity; a government willing to wield its power in their service in any manner, including technological and economic terror campaigns waged against entire national populations. And yet this government has the audacity to call itself a "beacon of hope to the world!" And the majority BELIEVE THEM!! It simply amazes.

America's shadowy patricians were already too powerful before the Cold War. And then decades of public hysteria borne of imminent nuclear annihilation delivered them into the fabled realm of "absolute power." This has been pretty obvious. Americans have avoided realizing it only by actively pursuing a mental state of utter denial on this subject, sort of like the three monkey icons of Shinto. Thanks to this determined ignorance, keeping the rest of us in the dark has been childishly easy for people like the Bushes. They can even be incredibly brazen and sloppy and get caught red-handed, as with Watergate. No biggy: just tell all the boobs it was Nixon acting alone, assisted by his best buddies, who just happened to be, um, CIA agents. Yah. They'll never notice this story's unbelievable stench; they'll be too relieved at having any sort of excuse to NOT think about it. You know, just like when the Warren Commission's whitewash came out.

One hypothesis is particularly good for sending 'America Firsters' into an apoplexy of denial: that the political culture now emerging in Washington is actually a product of 40 years of covert penetration into the Executive Branch. To substantiate this, one need look no further than the lineage of our present "leader." His grandfather, Prescott Bush, was a military spy during W.W.I, a key financial collaborator with the Nazis, and a US Senator. His father, George H. W. Bush, was heir to the CIA realm under our most infamous presidential regime, a fixture in presidential politics for 20 years, and all in all one of the creepiest figures ever to darken the American political stage. The 'quiet coup' that brought this man to power traces back to the Eisenhower Administration, when the utterly creepy "National Security" underworld first became a secret and malevolent force in national politics -- a force whose power is still nearly impossible to measure. There are ominous glimpses, though: in 1960, Eisenhower's VP and political heir, Richard M. Nixon, was shouldered aside by John F. Kennedy, who over the next three years developed grave misgivings about this underworld and its power. Then he ended up dead, and yes, his assassination DID stink of black ops, as did the similar jobs on Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, and his kid brother "Bobby," who would have been the SECOND Kennedy to sour Nixon's presidential hopes, had he lived to see the 1968 election...


much more at link
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-03 03:08 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Powerful stuff!
Not sure I agree with it all, but it is extremely well-written, if a bit arrogantly aggressive.

Things don't tie up neatly and the idea of the New Deal simply as Head Amputation Prevention System for the Ruling Class, even if that's how it ultimately worked out, ignores that sometimes, yes sometimes, people act for reasons other than a dark and brutally cynical "1984"-like conspiracy.

Other than that dusagreement, this article (long as hell) comes disturbingly close to hitting the mark on many issues.

However, I would say that this is no time to throw up our hands and surrender! NEVER GIVE UP! Not while there is still a ray of hope!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-03 04:14 AM
Response to Original message
21. What can we do?
Edited on Tue Nov-25-03 04:15 AM by Zorra



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-03 06:47 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Take back the MEDIA!
Edited on Tue Nov-25-03 06:49 AM by Karenina
The airwaves have been stolen from the People. Control MUST be wrested from the pirates and vultures who daily inject poison into the body politic. This is no time to allow them to conduct "business as usual" as their "business model" is fascist and has as its goal the DEATH of democracy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-03 07:11 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. our one last op is to join forces.
A Pub Proof system has to be thought of resulting in a resurgence of REASON and SANITY in our Gov't.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ugnmoose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-03 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #22
31. Knowledge is power
And you are quite right. Without an independent watchdog on the beat willing to dig up the facts and unafraid to report them, we remain vulnerable to domination. No free society is truly free without a free press/media. If the cabals who control the media will not conform to our wishes, it remains for us to do something about it. If I had one message to wealthy and influential activists of this world I would say one thing. Want to make a difference? Create a media empire like Fox did, only devote it to "fair and balanced" reporting.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zeemike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-03 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. What I would do
Edited on Tue Nov-25-03 07:33 AM by zeemike
First I would support democracy and not abandon it by not bothering to vote. And I would vote for a democrat that had the best chance of really changing things even in small steps like Dean or Kucinich or Sharpton . The others I am afraid are to much in the sack with the powerful.
And if we fail this time only a revolution will change things. But it cannot be a violent one at least on our part because we will louse everything if violence is used.
It will need to be a creative revolution such as one that fights fire with fire. Suppose that we as citizens organize ourselves into a corporation? And sent our tax monies to the corporation instead of the government. Why not undermine them just like they undermine us?
Don’t give up there is a way to defeat any tyrannical form of government.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-03 07:18 AM
Response to Original message
24. the difference between the democrats and republicans is..........
that the things that have happened under repug control would not have happened under democratic control. Yes, too many democrats compromised on too many issues. Those people should be fired, however spouting more of "the two parties are the same" doesn't solve anything..... and it is a lie.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bicentennial_baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-03 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
26. Kick
:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Iverson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-03 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. yes
kick
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-03 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
28. Dammit, buck up.
I don't want to hear it. We're gonna win this. Get off your ass and get moving.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lexingtonian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-03 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
29. if it were only that easy....
I got my start in domestic politics in 1988 or 1989. And your piece of writing is rather exactly how I soon realized things were at that time. The good news is: all that isn't as much so now as it used to be.

This country- such as it is now- was founded as a bunch of colonies. People understand what this means in the abstract, but when they look out at the American political scene they prefer not to see how much of that system (social, economic, political) still lies in the behavior of average Americans. Americans pretend they don't have a history, but if they must have a history it can't be about the realities of how Americans really lived and how the wealth was obtained, let alone spread out. It's Beaten Spouse Syndrome of a kind.

It's easy to complain about and hate the elites. But let's point out that a good number of the them, the Roosevelts and the Kennedys for instance and many others more subtly, did have and still in some measure represent the virtues and special capacities of nobility.

What you see in Republicans and in the average colonial elites is the opposite of nobility- small and mean interests winning out over the general good and the greatness of wo/men. They try to achieve greatness by small acts of destruction, and outdo nobility with vulgarity, imagination with vaingloriousness.

We have been living in a political wartime for about fifteen years. We call it the Culture War. Like the Civil War, it is about ending the grotesque excesses that derive from the residues of the colonial order.

The psychological, if not physical, violence starts happening when the side that needs changes in the establishments and institutions gets about 40% of the real power. It ends when it has attained 55%, or maybe 60%. The fighting begins with clever talk, then deceit and treachery, and picking off of the weakest combatants while incompetent armies clash by night. Then there's a tactician's phase, all calculations and training and expertise. But it doesn't work out, so there's a phase where the strategic thinkers rise and the courageous people willing to be secondary and fight the battles of attrition. Facing a competent enemy, the side in the historical wrong pushes morale- the extremism rises to hysteria. And psychotic levels as the 50% mark is crossed, then vicious cunning until it is clearly irreversibly so, and then defiant suicidalness or desertion or exile. It sure looks like fascism, even if it is a whole variety of things on closer inspection. It's the behavior of people who have no tomorrow in a reformed country they claim to possess.

We're in the battles of attrition- taking hard losses, dealing with the other side's overreaching- and subordinating ourselves to the strategic scheme and its generals. We're also over the 50% mark now, faced with wiping out and beating back all the reserves of political support the other side can find, their ambushes and desperate ploys outside the normal rules of engagement. It's been trench warfare. And our side is desperate to see some kind of payoff to the years of bloody fighting- but our opponent is leveraging everything to the max, and (as the defender) more able to shuffle forces to his weak points most of the time. His gamble keeps getting higher, and so we're (both) stuck with an everything-or-nothing situation.

The good news is that their side is near its breaking point, precariously overextended. The numbers say so, even if the newspaper stories don't. So their side must fight on with ever more desperate morale boosters, longer odds, and absurd hopes and claims. When the overextension snaps it snaps badly.

It is all about greed, money, power and influence. And ultimately it is about total control and domination.

Well, if you can't win Nobel prizes or sainthood or improve the world or write The Great American Novel, the rules and values of the relative status game at work in the sandbox are what's left.

While I would like to believe that electing a Democratic President will change things, I now believe that it makes no significant difference.

Well, it's all a matter of what is really at stake.

I like to think that in 1999 and 2000 we felt quite differently about this. Sure, not much of anyone was willing to go to the wall for Gore. But we would have, and to some extent did, do it for Clinton.

The elites are on the whole no more malevolent or degenerate than the commoners in this country, though those who are are outdoing those who are not at present. Yet there are still the few true princes out there, as there ever are. But it is a time of wholesale destruction of a corrupt set of establishments, the defeat on the battlefield of the ignorant and foolish but bloodthirsty armies of the misinvested and mercenary they lead, the burning of their fields and factories to teach them not to inflict war on others in the name of property, and also the sorting out of the imperfect reformers and the wrongheaded compromisers on our side.

Either this war is worth winning or it isn't. No war has ever created utopia- but it has destroyed many of the movements and fallacious beliefs that insisted on utopias contrary to human dignity and desires. There is no road to the life worth living than through the hell other people try to make of it.

Our side is like the Union side of the Civil War in many ways. One of them is that we fight for something fairly diffuse in the positive sense, something abstract that would never have real historical form but enabled that which could not yet be imagined, and against something very concrete and well known and lived with for a long time. But in November 1864 the Union voted for Lincoln and winning the war, rather than McClellan and going back to the old, seemingly liveable, compromises. The nearly 300,000 dead Union soldiers swung that election and thus the outcome; in the end they demanded their due of the living.

So: things do change. They change when we can afford them. The revolution comes when the oppression weakens or its rationale vanishes, not when the suffering ask for it. When the Cold War ended we had a lot of domestic business to deal with- but the power arrangements in place to stifle reforms to a minimum in its name. Almost fifteen years later we're getting to the point where all the Cold Warrior era traumas and agendas are kind of cured or resolved or crushed- because they made people psychotic they took priority. We're now getting to where we're addressing the progressive agenda, the cultural reality of post-Cold War, post-white, post-colonialist America. We're actually on the verge of serious social equality. In twenty or so years we'll even have the last stronghold of the Old Establishment, the corporation, surrendering.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-03 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. I hope you're right, Lexingtonian
But I have a hard time seeing it. I see us more as living in the Tiberian era of Imperial Rome, and they never turned back.

But as I say: I hope you're right.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Apr 23rd 2024, 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (Through 2005) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC