Dean Meetup Host Switching to Clark

[usregimechange]

I prefer Clark over any other candidate as of tonight. That said, I have changed my mind more than once already. Clark was great at the debate and worked to further his candidacy without bickering for political gain and thereby dividing the party. Tonight I believe that Clark is the best candidate to take out the shrub for the following main reasons:

1) Dean's health care plan would not pass congress (not incrimental).
2) Dean's tax policy is a loser for the general election.
3) Clark's military experience is excellent in the post 9-11 era.

[slinkerwink]

1. His Health Care plan would pass Congress----it's very much incrementalist

and has passed in the Vermont legislature with the support of Republicans and Independents like Jeffords.

Clark has no domestic policies to speak of specifically and when he does, it's all in generalities. Sorry to see that you're blinded by Clark's empty suit.

[usregimechange]

2. ?

What is incrimental about his plan? He wants to provide health care to everyone by repealing tax cuts. What would be less incrimental?

[slinkerwink]

5. actually, the repeal of tax cuts are necessary to provide health care

education, and jobs. Also Dean wants to do a reform of the tax system and bring it back to the Clinton system. What's so wrong with that?

[usregimechange]

7. only

that it won't sell. Not in the general election. They will buy a partial repeal of the Bush cuts and health care for the kiddos.

[slinkerwink]

6. and Dean's health plan isn't single-payer, and it doesn't cover 99%

of Americans, but those under 25, and seniors----that's a good plan to pass by Congress.

[usregimechange]

11. I just ckecked and you are right

not everyone. I just wish he would leave some of the cuts in place. I truely believe it will not sell.

[slinkerwink]

14. I think that Dean'll run more to the left if he gets the nomination

and he'll leave some of the middle class tax cuts in place, but really, what the middle class got really weren't taxes since their property taxes went up, their education fees went up, etc......$300 doesn't cover thousands of dollars in hikes since Bush became president.

[Cha]

16. Four steps to "Promoting American Health"...

http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=policy_statement_health

"My plan consists of four major components.

<snip>
"First, and most important, in order to extend health coverage to every uninsured child and young adult up to age 25, we'll redefine and expand two essential federal and state programs -- Medicaid and the State Children's Health Insurance Program. Right now, they only offer coverage to children from lower-income families. Under my plan, we cover all kids and young adults up to age 25 -- middle income as well as lower income. This aspect of my plan will give 11.5 million more kids and young adults access to the healthcare they need."


"Second, we'll give a leg up to working families struggling to afford health insurance. Adults earning up to 185% of the poverty level -- $16,613 -- will be eligible for coverage through the already existing Children Health Insurance Program. By doing this, an additional 11.8 million people will have access to the care they need." <snip>

There's more...

[w4rma]

37. Dean's health care proposal

…
For a year now, I have been traveling this country advocating a repeal of Bush's tax cuts so that we can provide universal healthcare and restore fiscal discipline. Many have questioned the political wisdom of challenging the president on politically popular tax cuts.

I believe, however, that given a choice between having health insurance or keeping all of the Bush's tax cuts in place, most Americans will choose health insurance. My plan will cost $88.3 billion -- less than half of the president's tax cut -- with money left over to pay down the deficits run up by this administration.

My plan consists of four major components.

First, and most important, in order to extend health coverage to every uninsured child and young adult up to age 25, we'll redefine and expand two essential federal and state programs -- Medicaid and the State Children's Health Insurance Program. Right now, they only offer coverage to children from lower-income families. Under my plan, we cover all kids and young adults up to age 25 -- middle income as well as lower income. This aspect of my plan will give 11.5 million more kids and young adults access to the healthcare they need.

Second, we'll give a leg up to working families struggling to afford health insurance. Adults earning up to 185% of the poverty level -- $16,613 -- will be eligible for coverage through the already existing Children Health Insurance Program. By doing this, an additional 11.8 million people will have access to the care they need.

Many working families have incomes that put them beyond the help offered by government programs. But this doesn't mean they have viable options for healthcare. We'll establish an affordable health insurance plan people can buy into, providing coverage nearly identical to what members of Congress and federal employees receive.

To cushion the costs, we'll also offer a significant tax credit to those with high premium costs. By offering this help, another 5.5 million adults will have access to care.

Third, we need to recognize that one key to a healthy America is making healthcare affordable to small businesses.We shouldn't turn our back on the employer-based system we have now, but neither should we simply throw money at it. We need to modernize the system so employers will have an option beyond passing rising costs on to workers or bailing out of the system entirely. Fortunately, we have a model of efficient, affordable and user-friendly healthcare coverage: the federal employee health system.

With the plan I've put forth to the American people, we'll organize a system nearly identical to the one federal workers and members of Congress enjoy. And we'll enable all employers with less than 50 workers to join it at rates lower than are currently available to these companies -- provided they insure their work force. I'll also offer employers a deal: The federal government will pick up 70% of COBRA premiums for employees transitioning out of their jobs, but we'll expect employers to pay the cost of extending coverage for an additional two months. These two months are often the difference between workers finding the health coverage they need, or joining the ranks of the uninsured.

Finally, to ensure that the maximum number of American men, women and children have access to healthcare, we must address corporate responsibility. There are many corporations that could provide healthcare to their employees but choose not to. The final element of this plan is a clear, strong message to corporate America that providing health coverage is fundamental to being a good corporate citizen. I look at business tax deductions as part of a compact between American taxpayers and corporate America. We give businesses certain benefits, and expect them to live up to certain responsibilities.
…
http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=policy_statement_health

The plan will cost an estimated, "$88.3 billion". This is paid for from some of the money saved by repealing Bush's tax cuts.

The Dean proposal expands Medicaid and CHIP to ages 25 and under. CHIP is expanded to adults earning up to "185% of the poverty level" (currently, $16,613).

For the "capitalist" half of the Dean plan: Folks with high health premium costs recived "a significant tax credit" to cushion the costs. The current "employer-based system" in use now will be modernized by upgrading it to the same healthcare coverage that "federal workers and members of Congress" have available to them.

Small buisnesses of less than 50 workers get lower rates than their larger competitors. Employers pick up the tab for 2 months in between jobs, but the costs of the COBRA premiums for those 2 months are subsidized, at 70%, by the federal government for employers. Corporations will receive "business tax deductions" as an incentive for supplying health care to their employees.

[DemBones DemBones]

10. A lot of us think that

you Dean followers are blinded by Dean's empty rhetoric and rolled-up sleeves.

[slinkerwink]

20. stfp......

:puke:

[Cha]

22. NO worries....it's just the

adjhs out and about.

[Jim Sagle]

27. What's an adjh?

[RandomUser]

48. no idea

but I'm guessing from the context that it means "idiot"

[Hep]

51. I think I know

I I think its the Anti-Dean Junior High School.

I could be wrong. I've never used the term.

[Hep]

23. ok

fine by me. Thanks for sharing.

[Cha]

3. Good Luck with your candidate...

now you can be a Clark Meetup Host!

[usregimechange]

4. Yes

I continue to work with the Clark locals. I supported Dean because of the opportunity to organize Dems. I see the general election to be less glorious.

[unfrigginreal]

8. Good Luck!

nt

[slinkerwink]

9. *sigh*

Can't help if you're switching to Clark despite his lack of organization in the states where Dean is now setting up organizations. Have you thought that Clark will be ruined since he didn't opt out of public funding? He will have no monetary chance to respond to Bush's 200 million dollar attacks.

[sandnsea]

12. That's what grassroots are for

To get up off our asses and replace the media message with a mouth to mouth message. Real activism, not write a check activism.

[pruner]

13. this is what REAL grassroots look like

[robsul82]

24. I do believe that is urine all over the front of my pants...

...holy GEEZ!

Later.

RJS

[w4rma]

46. It's both. Both are extremely important.

The grassroots can't buy TV and radio ads going door to door. That takes writing a check.

Don't deride folks who donate do Democratic candidates, please.

[usregimechange]

15. Yes

and Dean is strong there. I believe that the money and the grassroots are only part of the puzzle.

[cally]

19. Question

I thought the decision about public funding for the primaries and the general election are separate decisions. I think Clark can choose to opt out for the General Election if he wins the nomination.

Second, doesn't Clark still have the option to opt out during the primaries? Is there a deadline for this?

[slinkerwink]

21. Clark never said he was going to opt out for the general election.....

It seemed like he was pretty clear on sticking with staying in the public funding system.

I'm not sure what the deadline is.

[ShaneGR]

30. Actually, that's not true

Clark chose not to opt out for the primaries....

that doesn't include the general election. Two separate decisions.

[FrenchieCat]

17. Those are my reasons as well

for backing Clark...

Dean is a liability beyond those issues though...on the top of the ticket he would allow BushCo. not to have to spend money in the South. The whole Military avoidance story of this week-end was put out in the press not for the Dems (as Dems tend not to care) but for Repugs/Independents who won't vote against a WARTIME President for the what they will call a "draft dodger" with no Foreign policy experience. In addition Dean can be painted as a Rich liberal from New England.....from a state that has the same population as does San Francisco. Of course San Francisco is more diverse!

In addition, Dean is not as photogenic or as "likeable" as Bush is (not to me of course)....however, Clark is more so (Maybe because he doesn't have the beady eyes and the slurred speech).

Another indicator is how the media is pushing Dean and ignoring and/or smearing Clark. It's all for a reason, and it ain't honorable.

Clark is the one that the Pugs fear because in the General election, he has absolutely no drawbacks. Even the fact that he's not a politician plays well everywhere. They might say he has no domestic experience, but he did teach economics at west point, worked as a White House Fellows and Worked as an investor banker for 3 years. All Clark has to do is get someone on the ticket that has a lot of policy experience...and he's got a large pool to choose from for that......because he brings everything else that is required to the ticket.

NO, THEY HATE CLARK...and what I want to do is give them what they hate, what they don't want.....THEIR WORSE NIGHTMARE!

[Lefta Dissenter]

18. Welcome! (and I hope you stay with Clark!)

I felt that Clark really showed himself as a uniter tonight. He has in the past, as he has chosen to rise above the sniping at fellow dems. However, tonight, after all the Dean bashing for the first while, which made the dems look like a bunch of kids fighting in the sandbox, Clark managed to direct the attacks back onto bush, where they belong. It was a stark contrast to the sniping, I thought.

Jeez, my sentence structure sucks when I'm tired!

[11cents]

26. "Rising above the sniping ..."

My thoughts exactly. Dean, Kerry, and Gephardt are inevitably reduced by this kind of ping-ponging, and Clark is perfectly positioned to pick up the pieces. I think tonight he demonstrated not only his ability to perform in this (sucky) arena, but also an emerging and superior strategy.

[robsul82]

25. No offense, dude, but...

...you sound like a flavor-of-the-month type of person. Dean had the heat, you went with him. Changed your mind several times? NOW Dean's tax plan is a "loser?" Because of one debate, you're a Clark guy? C'mon. Either you've had doubts about Dean for a while now or you're a bandwagoner.

Later.

RJS

[dobak]

29. huh?

I switched to Clark quickly.

I supported Dean until late September, then I realized that he just did not have what I wanted or what I thought could win it all.

[Hep]

31. Yeah but

I think his point was that at least you knew what his policies were. How do you all of a sudden decide his tax plan sucks? I mean, his tax plan hasn't changed.

[rumguy]

28. What do we really know about Clark?

We know he used to heap praise on Bush and Rummy. That we do know. He sounds good and looks good, but beyond that he's like an empty vessel we can fill with our wildest dreams...

At least Dean is a known quantity. Clark could go all nutty on us if he gets in the White House....

[Tom Rinaldo]

32. Do me a favor please

Question Clark all you want, but could you please refrain from using terms that echo Karl Rowe's favorite attack ploy against political opponents with a distinguished record of bravery in battle (as opposed to Bush)? They trotted out the "mental case" "too tightly wound" "nutty" line of attack against McCaine in 2000, and they're trying to get traction with it against Clark now. When I hear that type of thing, no matter how lightly it is tossed, I start thinking about Republican opperatives, and I don't want to think that when I read your posts!

By the way, we know a great deal about Clark as a person, and his abilities. His career has been less obscure than Dean's in my opinion, though Clark's opinions on domestic issues may not be readily apparent. His positions as posted at his web site are rather detailed. True you can queston whether he truly stands behind them, but that gets back to what we know about him as a person.

[rumguy]

35. Clark could be a DINO

that's all I meant. Dean has always been a Democrat, and a vocal one at that...

[SahaleArm]

41. Dean has always been a Democrat...

And could be DINO if I looked at his record.

[Lefta Dissenter]

34. Empty vessel???

Have you read his policies at his web site? If there's anything that man is NOT, it's empty.

[rumguy]

36. They're lengthy policies

but who wrote them for him?

[SeveneightyWhoa]

38. If you're accusing Clark of being a puppet--

Then wouldn't you rather have the people writing those policy statements running the country, rather than the neoconservatives running George W Bush's policies?

I think its quite silly to still, after everything he's said, everything he's done in the past, and all the interviews and debates he's gone through lately, believe that Clark is incapable of making his own decisions. You are simply not seeing things through the lens of reality, if you don't see anything in Clark.

[rumguy]

39. I just with I knew more about him

He has no record on domestic policy, none...I just wish there was something I could examine...other than the stuff on his website that you know was written for him...

[OKNancy]

44. True, no legislative record on domestic issues

However if you wanted to size up the measure of the man, then you could look at what he did in his career in the Army. It is well know ( check out veteransforclark.com) about his concerns for "domestic" issues when he was on base.

Clark and his wife were always trying to improve the lives of the soldiers, whether it be better PX products, fighting for good schools on the bases, and even trying to bring theatrical groups on base. And of course, he always fought for civil rights. He filed an amicus brief in the Univ. of Michigan affirmative action case before he ever decided to run for President. These are acts of a progressive.

Also, I wish I could find it quickly, and maybe later I will, but did you know that Paul Wellstone was an admirer of Clark? Maybe DonnaZen will pop in this thread to tell that story.

[rumguy]

53. wellstone and clark friends?

that is interesting

[Barbara917]

42. Clark has written more books than Chimp has read

Clark is his own man. Clark makes his own decisions. If you think someone is telling Clark what to think you aren't paying attention. That's why Shelton/Cohen pushed him out early and replaced him with Ralston. Because Clark didn't subscribe to their policies.

The only reason why Clark would need a speech writer is that he has to spend all his time campaigning. Given the time he is fully capable of writing all his own stuff. Nevertheless, there isn't a word that comes out of his mouth or a word in a speech he gives that hasn't been personally vetted and approved by him. He means it when he says the "buck stops here."

[rumguy]

57. you present a good argument

for Clark - maybe i do need to check out his past in the army more...

[Renew Deal]

59. FUD

isn't it great. Yes, clark is going to suddenly turn into the Terminator. He is really a machine. Or maybe he is Neo. We have pulled him from the Matrix. :shrug:

[knight_of_the_star]

33. Welcome aboard!

Let's keep fighting the good fight until we win!

[DoveTurnedHawk]

40. Welcome!

You made the right choice, don't let the naysayers get you down. :-)

:toast:

DTH

[Egnever]

43. While I Respect your decision to switch

I frankly find the evidence in this thread that you fail to investigate the candidate you choose to "host" meetups for appaling.

I am all for enthusiastic support of any candidate but I like to believe that kind of enthusiasm comes from at least a general understanding of that candidates positions.

I wish you the best of luck with your quest with clark,. Please incestigate what his positions are a little more than you aparently did Deans before hosting meetups though.

[RandomUser]

45. Thank you

I know that as a meetup host for Dean's campaign, you must feel very invested in it. Thus, the fact that you're willing to switch to Clark despite this investment means that much more. Thank you.

:yourock:

[madfloridian]

47. Why do the "I'm changing" threads get so much attention?

:shrug:

Aren't they a little obvious?

[RandomUser]

49. The fact that he's a Dean meetup host does make this thread unique

And I suppose that's one reason for the interest.

[CWebster]

50. There's the meme again.

The construct to create the illusion that dean supporters are flocking to clark.

Where is the link for this, btw.

[RandomUser]

54. Link?

Ask him yourself. The guy is the original poster of this thread. The original thread starter is the Dean Meetup host.

[CWebster]

58. Oh...hes just a nobody.

keeping with today's script, eh...;-)

[RandomUser]

61. How pleasant of you

The moment he switches from Dean, he's to be denigrated?

[CWebster]

63. No

guess I just wouldn't announce myself in the third person in the headline.

[RandomUser]

64. If you want to verify

You can always email or pm him and ask what area he held his meetups. Pretty senseless to lie about something that can be verified.

[madfloridian]

55. Yes, it is going on.

:shrug:

[CWebster]

60. Strategy of the foot soldiers of de General

Stinks, don't it

[Hep]

56. It's why they go out of their way to say how much they USED to like Dean.

True or not, remains to be seen.

I don't care one way or the other, but if yu care enough to verify it, all you need to know is WHERE the person hosted meetups.

[RandomUser]

62. If you care enough to verify

Go on and ask him. Since it's the Dean supporters who seem to take issue with his credibility.

[AmericanDem]

52. Welcome to the Clark camp

Glad to hear you made the right choice! :hi: :toast: