Democratic Party: RIP 11-25-03

[placton]

It's over. The Democratic Party is dead. Spare me the crap about realism, and the middle class, and staying alive to fight again. It's over. With the passage of:
-the Medicare Termination Bill
-the Cheney Energy Bill
-the Big Media Gets Bigger Bill
it's over.

Daschle is not some spineless Democrat. He is a Republican - along with the vast majority of his colleagues in both houses of Congress. These people won't even vote in the interest of the American people when it would HELP them poltically. They are only interested in feeding off the public trough.

Breaux, Baucus, Landrie - hell, Chaffee is a better Dem than most of the pack.

Please tell me why, except at the presidential level, I should donate a nickel or moment of time to the DSCC or the DNC? So they can roll for the big boys (women, of course, need not apply - see the signing of the anti-choice bill recently)? The Repugs have no need to consult with the so-called Dems, because they know the Dems will play ball all the time.

The Greens are wrong, wrong, wrong. But they are the only choice. Yeah, I'll help the odd Dem candidate; we have 2 great Senators in Michigan, for example.

But, the Democratic Party has turned its back on America. They are even more hypocritcal than Republicans - because they claim to be for ordinary people. But they are not. Ta. Ta.

[liberalmuse]

1. I agree.

And I will only be donating directly to the Democratic candidates. There are millions of true Democrats out here--it's just that we have piss poor representation. We need to send a message to our representatives, and we need to start voting in the primaries so we don't end up having to vote Democrat simply because we will not vote for a Republican. We need to do some housecleaning in our party, and get rid of all the yellow-bellied pansies. It's time that we started dropping letters to the DNC letting them know they've failed us. I'm calling Daschle's office today to let him know how disgusted I am. He needs to go, but who's going to replace him?

[Q]

2. I strongly disagree...

...will get into more detail when the hacker attack in over.

[The Backlash Cometh]

3. One last desparate attempt to revive it

I wasn't a Dean fan, but I think that Dean isn't affiliated to the DLC. I think the only thing we can do is let the DLC know that we are not happy. Whoever they support is going to tow the non-party line. So we vote for the man who is committed to real democratic values.

The Big Dawg will come around. I think in his heart, he's further left than the DLC. I'm counting on him to welcome the challenge. Time to shake the moths out of the closet.

[NewGuy]

4. Its also over because...

1. The economic cycle is currently driving the economy upward
2. War on terror is favored by a majority
3. Jobs may be picking up as productivity gains prove temporary

None of these things would drive me over to the greens though. The fact that we will lose this election does not mean our ideas are wrong. It only means that our current group of candidates chose the wrong ideas to focus on and forced themselves out of contention. Coming out against the war on terror, against the drug bill for seniors, for gay marraige, and for UN/NATO involvement in Iraq are simply ideas whose time has not yet come or a knee jerk reaction to something Repugs favor.

[JanMichael]

10. I do not agree.

"The economic cycle is currently driving the economy upward"

It's weak though and several months remain until the election. That said the Media keeps throwing out "stories" about how some economists predict record growth in 2004, then they add at the end when nobody except us apparently are listening, that it'll be a Jobless Recovery rush to money.

2. War on terror is favored by a majority

That's a meaningless term. "War on Terror" doesn't actually mean anything. I think people, against the will of the Media, are waking up to that.

3. Jobs may be picking up as productivity gains prove temporary

Walmart type jobs will indeed pickup, that's just grand.

"Coming out against the war on terror"

Who on Earth has done that?

"against the drug bill for seniors"

You're using Repuke terminology, you know that, yes?

"for gay marraige"

For Civil Rights, right? That's what you meant, yes?

"and for UN/NATO involvement in Iraq are simply ideas whose time has not yet come or a knee jerk reaction to something Repugs favor."

Actually there are strong poll numbers top suggest that your analysis of the attitudes on Iraq are wrong. And since those twats in the Congress mostly all voted to give the chimp a free pass to invade Iraq anyway that shouldn't hurt them in the "I'm as Patriotic as You!" screaming match that American politics has become.

Ciao.

[NewGuy]

17. The rhetoric will drive the election

1. The economic upturn is not weak. They just revised the latest quarter number up to the highest in 20 years. Currently, the market is lagging the overall economy. If that turns around the fat lady will be singing.

2. "War on Terror" is the term most commonly used by the administration and by the media. For a while support for it softened, however it is back up to as much as 60% in current polls. These polls generally state the question just that way. The way you phrase it realy drives the reponse. If Iraq is part of a "war on terror" it gets support. If it is an imperialist attack on another nation it does not.

3. What we hear most on the news and in discussions even here is the jobless rate and that this is "A jobless Recovery." Trying to shift the emphasis to "high paying jobs going away and low paying jobs coming in" will be a tough sell. It is counter-intuitive to believe this while the economy and the markets are going up.

4. The current round of Democratic contenders for the presidency have all come out against the Iraq war, which the administration and the media have succesfully sold as the current step in the "War on Terror." That is why the Democrats are all screaming about the Repuke ad playing in Iowa.

5. Gay marraige is the term that the Repugs are trying to sell. They have been very succesful so far. Most Americans are for equal rights but against gay marraige. This may be a nonsense position but it is unlikely to change in less than a year.

6. I have not seen any polls that show Americans overall favoring UN/NATO involvement in Iraq. If they exist, I apologize for including it. The latest polls I had seen were some time ago and showed Americans disdainful of both the UN and NATO.

A major part of my post was intended to show that the rhetoric will likely drive the election. If the majority use Repuke terms, as you accused me of, then we will lose the election because it means they are accepting the Repuke viewpoint.

I believe it was Dick Morris who made the same point a couple of weeks ago. He was talking very specifically about bush and Dean and issues like raising taxes versus rolling back the cuts and gay marraige versus civil unions. His point was that if the majority got the impression that Dean supported gay marraige and tax increases he was dead, but if the majority was convinced that Dean supported equal rights and rolling back the tax cuts for the wealthy he had a good chance.

[adriennel]

20. minor corrections

"The economic upturn is not weak. They just revised the latest quarter number up to the highest in 20 years."

one month of recovery (I don't count October 2003, because the numbers don't work out) DOES NOT make an economic recovery. Give it a few more months of steady improvement, and I'll agree with your statement. We are also recovering from the slowest phase of the economy since the Great Depression. This may tamper the "biggest growth in 20 years" somewhat.

"Trying to shift the emphasis to 'high paying jobs going away and low paying jobs coming in' will be a tough sell."

umm, it's been proven that the majority of new jobs currently being created are low-paying service jobs. We don't have to "sell" anything, just tell the truth. I know plenty of former "managers" who are now working service jobs, I don't know of many former "service" workers who have become managers.

[Muddleoftheroad]

5. Thought this was part of the hack attack

Instead, it's just more whining.

[markus]

6. Its time to take the party back

That means:

No $s to the DNC or state party

No work for "coordinated campaigns".

I am only supporting real Democrats from now on. I'm going to give Conrad here in N.D. some slack for voting against the war and standing by his vote.

As pissed as I am at my three representatives, I know why they voted for the bill--same reason McCain and the Floridians voted against it. They're going to increase rural Medicare reimbursements by hiking Part B in high cost areas.

Of course, that's really too damned bad for all the poor folks who want to retire to Florida or Arizona full time. Of course, the snow birds will maintain a P.O. Box or a lake cabin in N.D. and clain N.D. residency, and pay N.D. rates if they can. I actually hope they can't.

They need to learn that when you date the GOP, you get date raped.

[Guaranteed]

7. If it's over, then what the hell are we all doing here?

Man, I'm getting sick of this negativity. Stop it. You're killing everyone's morale.

Think about it this way: Freepers LOVE seeing this stuff. BUCK...UP!!

[Q]

8. Please allow 'free speech' to prevail...

- This thread has as much right to exist as any other. And really...who gives a flying shit what the FReepers think?

- I believe this situation provides an opportunity to take our party back...now that there is a clear dividing line between Democrat and Republican-lite.

[Guaranteed]

11. So, do you want people to take this to heart?

I'm not saying pull the thread. I'm saying that, in general, if people are feeling discouraged, they need to swallow it and fight on. No moaning, no bitching, and CERTAINLY no saying "IT'S OVER." That is destructive in SO many ways. We don't need that kind of energy around. We need fighters, KILLERS, even. We need some BLOODTHIRSTY motherfuckers. We don't need people wallowing in self-pity and yelling about how we don't have a snowball's chance in hell. It's contagious. Plus, it doesn't matter whether it's the case or not, because we're gonna fight this. And whatever chance we have, it's what we're going to win with.

I agree that this is a real opportunity. We need to clean some house. That's why I'm a Dean supporter. I'm sick of the roll-over Democrats we have in power right now. Thank GOD for Ted Kennedy. He may have done some messed up things in the past, but he's more than made up for it since. WAY more. That man has CHARACTER.

And I don't see HIM giving up. He never would. What would his brothers think?

PLEASE, DUers: No more "it's over" threads. There are two right now in GD. Of course we need the bad news when it's out there, but no more defeatism.

[sendero]

18. I...

I second that emotion. :)



Come on, yes it is true that the Dem congress is a MAJOR DISSAPOINTMENT. But we already knew that. Maybe if we elect a strong president, they will grow a pair by osmosis.


But we can never give up and whining isn't helping at all.

[MaineDem]

9. Ummm, when did Cheney's Energy Bill become law?

I seem to have missed it passing the Senate.

[mrgorth]

12. I thought I heard the energy bill was dead.

[MaineDem]

14. Until 2004, I believe.

That's what I thought too.

[sandnsea]

23. I did too

But still, I tend to agree with the original poster. I'm seriously thinking of backing Kucinich because he's the only candidate that I absolutely know is 100% for the people.

[sangh0]

25. The energy bill IS dead

but go on and keep agreeing with the one who couldn't get that important fact straight.

[sandnsea]

26. The rest of his post is right

I'm sick of it. Kucinch is the only candidate who I have 100% confidence that speaks for the benefit of working people. The rest of them float along in varying degrees to the point where I don't trust them 100%. Kerry not voting no today totally pisses me off. If you mean something, put your vote down. This was too important not to take a definite stand.

I like Clark, but get real. He's running because we couldn't find a Democrat strong enough.

Dean? Please. Every time he had an opportunity to do something in Vermont, he chose the Rebublican solution.

Edwards? Maybe he really means what he says, but today I'm just too cynical to believe it.

Our party sucks and I'm sick of it.

[sangh0]

28. No, it's not right

If I'm not mistaken, the Medicare bill hasn't passed yet either. Nor has the media bill, which IIRC is part of a budget bill.

[greyl]

13. Listen to Kennedy on C-span 2 right now

http://www.c-span.org/watch/cspan2_rm.asp?Cat=TV&Code=CS2

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

15. Forget DLC "leaders" - look to the Progressive Caucus

If you want leadership, obviously the same old typcial DLC "leaders" like Diane Feinstein are NOT going to provide it. It's time for us to concentrate less on the DNC and more on the Progressive Caucus if we want to get anything done.

http://bernie.house.gov/pc/

[dpbrown]

22. Prog. Caucus, largest caucus in Congress, its leader should be President

Concentrate your support where it will do the most good. Bring Democrats back to core values.

[Cocoa]

16. you win this round, Rush

but it's not over, you've declared us dead many times before.

[Q]

27. Rush? Are you saying Rush is responsible for Democratic loses?

- You must belong to the 'Blame anyone else first' party.

[1songbird]

19. The medicare bill passage is a

disgrace and it has me furious with the Dems that crossed over to vote for it. I think we should create a wall of shame here at DU with all of the names of the Senators that voted for the Medicare Bill. There's been some grave damage done to our party as a result of the bills passage. I don't see how it's going to be fixed if the DNC does not actively work to replace the DINO's that have betrayed us. We are making the same mistake that we did with Zell Miller. The Democrats should have acted to get rid of this guy when it was shown that he voted with the GOP 100% of the time. Zell is a monster that we created and he is now poison that we're forced to drink. To restore our dignity we must oust those that do not bring honor to our party and party ideals. Let the wall of shame be a reminder to everyone that visits DU of who betrayed our Seniors and let's get rid of them.

[otohara]

21. Waste Of Time Writing/Phoning Dems

I give up - no more will I be calling, e-mailing. They don't listen to thier base. I will save my hands the pain and my phone bills the cost of a long distance call - most importantly - my sanity.

Bush is bad enough - at least he comes right out and states "he doesn't care what we think" -

[TSElliott]

24. Woe is me...

Why are there so many people who want to sit around feeling sorry for themselves because the Republicans got through a couple of bills. Big deal, stop your cryin and start your fighting.

The problem with the Democratic Party is not that it's dead it's just full of pussy's who don't want to fight and think everything should be handed to them.

[Iverson]

29. snore

Thanks for the update on Operation Bootstrap. It's not as if undermining Medicare is anything special, hunh?

:eyes: