Video of Missle Hitting DHL Jet Over Baghdad

[HFishbine]

300K:

http://www.bcast.co.jp/cgi-bin/yahoo/news.asx?cid=20031125-00000019-jnn-int-movie-001&media=wm300k

56K:

http://www.bcast.co.jp/cgi-bin/yahoo/news.asx?cid=20031125-00000019-jnn-int-movie-000&media=wm56k

From (in Japanese): http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/videonews/jnn/20031125/20031125-00000019-jnn-int.html

[theivoryqueen]

1. DHL?

[HFishbine]

3. Yes

Here it is in English:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20031125/wl_mideast_afp/iraq_air_missile_video_031125005846

[slackmaster]

5. Thanks, those guys are major assholes

Shooting at what is obviously a civilian aircraft.

[Terwilliger]

8. major assholes with their country invaded

aren't you the supporter of defending your home?

[slackmaster]

10. How is shooting a DHL plane "defending you home"?

A US or British military aircraft would seem to me a more legitimate target for them. DHL has been doing business in Iraq for many years.

Shooting at a civilian cargo plane is the equivalent of shooting a mail carrier or a UPS driver.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[slackmaster]

21. Got a cite to support that?

I thought the military provided its own transportation for food and supplies.

You're incredibly two-faced. You have to have a gun, but Iraqis can't fight for their homeland?

Straw Man. I've never expressed an opinion about the right (or lack thereof) of Iraqis to fight for their homeland. I did say that shooting down a civilian aircraft does not constitute same, and I stand by that statement.

BTW I have guns because I want to, not because I need to.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ShaneGR]

28. Hey Terr, that's crap logic

There is no prerequisite for being a Democrat that says you have to support terrorists shooting at CIVILIAN airliners. DHL is NOT a military carrier.

[Terwilliger]

31. You're calling crap logic?

Like Kucinich causing the river to burn?

Democrats should be all about getting a better form of governance in place in Baghdad...not kissing Bush's ass through the next election.

Whoever's shooting at whatever target, these things are simply going to continue without any leadership.

[ShaneGR]

35. No Terr, your logic is political suicide

Hoping civilian air craft don't get shot down in Iraq is not kissing Bush's ass. You are over the line.

[WoodrowFan]

38. She is over the line. AGAIN.

Another member of the far-DU left helping Bush carry all 50 states so they can remain ideologically 'pure.'

[Blue_Chill]

37. I want a goverment for the people and by the people in Iraq

But I won't support people shooting at civilian or military targets. I will not support terrorism period. If you think that disqualifies me as a democrat fine, your opinion means exactly nothing on this subject being that you aren't and never have shared the views of the democratic party.

I've never seen you defend the democratic party on this board. I have seen you defend the green party, communism, terrorism, and everything else that is not and NEVER WILL BE part of the democratic party platform.

[WoodrowFan]

36. But they are American! therefore they are EVIL!

Some posters here will accept any attack on any American in Iraq as legit.

[ShaneGR]

39. Yup, luckilly there are plenty of us who do not

We oppose the war, but don't hope for anymore deaths. Some of us, like I, have family or close friends in Iraq. It's really sick to see some of the super-lefties cheer on the deaths. The whole thing is just really sad.

[Terwilliger]

58. and the American attacks on Iraq are...legit too?

or was this an insane illegal action on the part of the US government


WHAT SAY YOU?

[cosmicdot]

41. how does one discern who shot at the DHL aircraft?

from the film footage, how can one tell who they are or what they are?

maybe if I hear it from Herr Rumsfeld, it'll be clear

[slackmaster]

46. I saw a bunch of yahoos with a shoulder-launched SAM

You're right, it's impossible to say for sure who they were.

[RummyTheDummy]

62. How do we know?

Actually, they looked like two beer drinkin blue collar guys from Cleveland just shooting at planes for shits and giggles.

[MercutioATC]

84. Do YOU know what was on that DHL plane?

Cargo can be food and medicine or ammunition. Seems to me that, in light of the fact that DHL is no longer flying into Iraq, it was a good strategic move.

[Blue_Chill]

11. Yes Iraq must defend itself from delivery companies!

Face it they are terrorists, you can pretend they are freedom fighters all you like but they aren't.

[Terwilliger]

16. That's what Bush says

and I'm not surprised it came from you

[Blue_Chill]

19. So then you think shooting at civilian aircraft is what a good thing?

Maybe you want to give the guys a medal, perhaps a big kiss as well?

I don't care what Bush says, I don't define myself thru knee jerk reactions. I look at the situation and come to my own damn conclusions.

[Terwilliger]

27. my conclusion is that we should never have gone to Iraq in the first place

too bad there's no opposition party in this country...maybe we could have avoided it

[Blue_Chill]

40. So then because you were against the war

you now support and cheer for american deaths?

Absolutely disgusting.

BTW - most people on this board opposed the war, myself included. However thankfully most don't become terrorism cheerleaders because of it.

[ShaneGR]

42. BRAVO

Exactly, I think the main difference is that when most of us hear about more soldiers dying we are SAD about it. Some actually get HAPPY. It has nothing to do with opposition to the war, as 99% of us oppossed it. Some people have gone psychotic, hoping for mass bloodshed.... cheering as the dead come home. Just a few, but enough to tarnish us all. The same thing happened in the late 60's. Just enough to screw everything up worse than it already was.

[economic justice]

91. Couldn't have said it better

Thank you. Glad to see posters sticking up for sanity in the face of idiocy. The far left on this board would have the Democratic Party go down in flames in 2004 just to preserve the Stalinist idealogical purity they demand. One of these posters was adamantly defending the old USSR the other day. Some things, despite history, never change.

[Terwilliger]

56. support and cheer american deaths?

That sounds Republican again...you still havent told us why you're here.

I support Iraqis doing whatever they need to do. But why not support and cheer American deaths...they'll have their history re-written and they'll be heroes to all the little sheep who fight in the next 10 wars.

[ShaneGR]

63. Terr, quit ducking.... you are cheering

You've said civilians are legitimate targets. You've equated soldiers with Bush, despite the fact that they are not responsible for policy. You're claiming that people aren't Democrats if they don't support shooting down civilian aircraft.

Let me tell you something Terr. You are the one who is NOT a Democrat. I don't know what you are really, but you're certainly not a Democrat. I've never heard you say one good thing about Democrats. Ever.

[Blue_Chill]

66. why not support and cheer American deaths? ARE YOU SERIOUS!

You support the death of Americans, and then you question my political affiliation? Disgusting, absolutely the worst thing I have ever seen anyone write on these forums.

I will not cheer or support the death of Americans in Iraq and neither will the Democratic Party of the United States of America.

[MercutioATC]

85. Ummm, DHL is a German-owned company, NOT American...

www.DHL.com

...owned by Deutsche Post World Net. Civilians, yes. Americans? No.

[Blue_Chill]

86. I was responding to this comment

"But why not support and cheer American deaths" - terwil

[MercutioATC]

88. Sorry, I was just trying to pick ONE of the "kill American" threads...

Nobody seems to realize that the U.S. does not own every cargo airline on the planet. Blow up all of the DHL planes you can find, and you still won't kill too many Americans...

After tracing back through the thread, I can see that you were replying in a more general sense.

[Scott Lee]

102. Umm, the American plan is to marketize Iraq

so it makes complete sense that the resistance would attack market interests. Kill off investor interest, kill off the occupation.

[Scott Lee]

57. Actually thats a wise resistance ploy in this case

Since its the corpowhores who are the real ones driving this and seek the greatest benefits, attacking the tools of their trade is a great way to scare of investors. When you scare off investors, you put the occupation in more jeopardy than if you were to keep shooting at tanks.

[ShaneGR]

12. Once again, Terr doesn't know.....

That DHL is a civilian cargo transport, that has been operating in Iraq since well before the invasion.

[TexasMexican]

13. obviously

these people think that all flying contraptions are just evil demon tools of the great satan.

[Terwilliger]

14. maybe they think they're instruments of aggression from the US

DHL aint delivering food packages you know...they're delivering goods and products to the American occupation

[slackmaster]

23. Again, please provide a cite

The rates DHL charges are far in excess of what the military can fly in its own stuff for.

[Terwilliger]

29. you're a DHL expert now?

[slackmaster]

47. You're the one who has made two unsubstantiated claims

1. That DHL is supporting the occupation, and

2. That the UN sanctions against Iraq interrupted DHL's business there.

Got proof of either?

[alfredo]

55. How do we know DHL is competitive? Since bush insisted on dropping

the war profiteering penalties from the 87 billion giveaway, we don't know what DHL is charging us.

DHL and all the other civilian corporations know the risks of operating in a war zone. They accept the risk because they are being paid well, insurance will cover the costs, and it is not them, but their employees who are putting their asses on the line.

We cannot separate the government and corporate world because they are now one. Just because it has a corporate logo doesn't make it something special. For the insurgents to put something off limits because it has a logo instead of a flag would put them at a disadvantage.

I do not approve of civilian targets, but understand that once a corporate entity takes sides in a conflict, it becomes a legitimate target. I do not want to see another person killed or maimed in this war. I don't care if it is American, Italian, or Iraqi. I want hostilities to end now.

[ShaneGR]

30. Once again Terr, you're wrong

DHL predominantly carries reconstruction materials, for the Iraqis.

[slackmaster]

48. This particular plane was LEAVING Baghdad

And could have been on its way to China for all we know. It was probably carrying stuff from legitimate Iraqi businesses and citizens.

[Terwilliger]

61. oh really!

Now it's "probably" the talking-point that supports your argument?

[slackmaster]

69. Do you have any hard information to support your claims?

n/t

[Terwilliger]

77. Do you?

You were the one saying that DHL was "probably" just doing noble work for some poor Iraqi businessman or school children. Did you pull that out of your ass?

[slackmaster]

81. You advanced the first claims

Burden of proof is on you.

[Terwilliger]

17. it was ??????

I thought there were sanctions against Iraq for the last 12 years. Did DHL violate that?

You are not someone I listen to for solid information.

[slackmaster]

24. Are you claiming the sanctions halted all of DHL's business in Iraq?

We eagerly await proof of this claim.

[Terwilliger]

26. There shouldn't have been ANY business

don't you remember? Sanctions? Oil-for-food? Remember when there was a ruckus because it was proved that Halliburton was doing business with Iraq during the sanctions? With that in mind do you think DHL was doing business with Iraq?

DHL is delivering supplies to the occupation.

[ShaneGR]

32. Once again Terr, you're wrong

The sanctions targeted Iraq's OIL industry, which was their primary breadwinner. There was plenty of other business, not just enough for Iraq to sustain its economy. You're acting like the sanctions were a blanket embargo, they were harsh but not that harsh.

[slackmaster]

50. Your statement is FOS

The UN sanctions did not stop all trade into and out of Iraq.

[Terwilliger]

52. but were supposed to

out shooting your gun too much?

[slackmaster]

70. Your post makes no sense whatsoever

Grammatically or otherwise.

[dobak]

99. Who do you think was delivering the food?

They give oil, we gave food.

Who do you think was delivering the food? My first guess would be DHL.

[Terwilliger]

18. by the way...post #4 was sent 23 minutes before this

so, I'm even less inclined to take you as serious

[ShaneGR]

43. Once again Terr, you're wrong

It is us who do not take you seriously.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Code_Name_D]

76. Civilian craft that furees US millitary personel.

That makes it a lagit target.

[theivoryqueen]

7. A good reason to heavily arm journalists

[Terwilliger]

4. DHL the delivery service

like FedEx

[ShaneGR]

34. Terr, should we shoot down Fed-Ex planes?

Just wondering, you seem to be advocating that position.

[WoodrowFan]

44. Maybe they are carrying students from SOA. (NT)

[Terwilliger]

60. so you like the SOA too, huh?

I must not have read the same civics texts that you did. Where did it say we were supposed to be an Imperial power?

[ShaneGR]

64. LOL, the sarcasm went WAY over your head on that one.

Gees Terr

[WoodrowFan]

68. Amazing

I am undecided on the SOA actually. You're right, it WAS sarcasm SGR2. LOL

[Terwilliger]

71. sarcastically defending the murderous SOA

ha ha...funny

[WoodrowFan]

75. I defended them HOW?? (NT)

[kiahzero]

96. Having trouble finding your head?

I don't think it's buried in sand.

He was making fun of you, by coming up with another ludicrois scenario in which you would support KILLING CIVILIANS. That scenario was that DHL was carrying, rather than cargo, E-VILLE School of the Americas graduates.

YHL. HAND.

[Terwilliger]

59. We who?

you want to shoot down airplanes? SOMEONE GET THIS KID A DOCTOR!

[slackmaster]

2. What's the story?

Did the plane go down?

(Pardon my ignorance; I'm trying to avoid news for a few days.)

[HFishbine]

6. Yes, yes, the DHL you know

one of only two commercial carriers flying into Baghdad at the time (the other was a Jordanian carrier). Was hit on Nov. 6th. Click the link above.

on edit: No, did not go down. The "Yes" was meant in reply to the question about it being DHL.

[TexasMexican]

9. nope.

It landed with one of the engines on its left wing on fire.

There are a few pictures out there showing the plane in flight with the engine on fire.

This video doesnt show that.

[cosmicdot]

20. guess I'm a bit surprised that these surface-to-air missile launchers

are out in the open after an over six-month occupation as if it were nothing to it, and some Japanese are allowed to film it

or whoever filmed it ... oh, the "militants" or "insurgents" filmed it themselves ...

... and the article tells us they ARE militants ... well, that certainly nails their guilt ... not to mention feeding the Bush effort and sentiments back in the States ...

why didn't they go for the military target within range?

whose to say they weren't coalition agents posing as "militants" ...

again, use of the word "insurgency" ... and, that it's seven-month-old ... I thought the insurgency was only just beginning ... I can't recall when the media began seeping that term into our psyche ...

... with their faces concealed by chequered keffiyeh headdresses or white scarves ...

these dudes are stupid ... they should have worn what they normally wear on the streets ... US should outlaw camouflaged wear except for military personnel ...

"The militants are then seen making their get-away in a car. The 11th who presumably shot the footage films his own lap in his haste to get into the vehicle."

With Herr Rumsfeld, Rove, et al ... how can one accept anything on face value which is reported in the Media? I see Murdoch was quick to pick it up in his Australian paper ...

It's disgusting for anyone to take such action ... but, as far as who did it ... I yield to caution ... elementary, my dear Watson ...

it's tough sorting out what is real and what is not

and, if anyone questions the validity of such stories ... well, just read above ...

[no name no slogan]

80. Check the end of the Yahoo! piece especially

where it says that Saddam had a sh!tload of shoulder-launched SAMs in his arsenal, which all "went missing" during the US invasion. Now the US has a "buy-back" plan to get them off the streets, but it must not be too popular if they're still being used.

Had we not sent troops into Iraq, those SAMs would still be under lock and key.

I don't condone the killing of ANYONE-- civilian or military. I am a pacifist, and I don't believe in killing another human being, PERIOD. I don't think it's right to cheer on one side or another in an armed conflict, because the conflict itself reduces human beings to monsters.

HOWEVER, I don't think it's proper to label one side "terrorists" and another as "freedom fighters", when the two can become so easily confused with a shift in perspective.

Hell, Reagan called the Contras in Nicaragua "freedom fighters" although they attacked schools, hospitals and democratically-elected government officials. I am quite sure there are people in the mideast who see any sort of western dominance (cultural, governmental, or commercial) as "terrorism".

Does that justify killing somebody? ABSOLUTELY NOT. But trying to empathize with the plight of these "terrorists" will do a lot more good than just killing them.

[Fleshdancer]

33. I just fowarded this story

My husband is doing some contract work for DHL right now...fortunately he just sits at a computer all day and doesn't fly cargo planes into Baghdad.

This is creepy stuff.

[trumad]

45. I gotta ask?

How did the er...terrorists know it was DHL?

Here's my take... Yes indeed it's a terrible thing that insurgents, freedom fighters, terrorists, etc are trying to kill innocent Americans and Iraqies....BUT...If I was in their shoes and trying to make a political statement, I'd try to kill everyone that is related to the folks who illegally invaded my homeland....

Put the shoe on the other foot and imagine if Iraq controlled America and you were a uhhh an American Freedom fighter...Whould you try to shoot down an Iraqie airplane? I would! Who gives a shit if it's non-military...It would still be the enemy....

[slackmaster]

53. DHL planes are clearly marked

If you can see one well enough to draw a bead on it there is no way you could mistake it for a military plane.

If the assholes (note I do not call them terrorists) didn't know what they were shooting at, then they were even bigger assholes.

[arcane1]

49. what was the plane delivering...?

Do we really know?

:shrug:

just curious...

[slackmaster]

51. It wasn't delivering anything TO Baghdad

The plane was leaving, carrying we don't know what to we don't know where.

[ShaneGR]

65. Well, according to Terr nothing should be allowed to leave

Seems like in that mind, nothing should leave Iraq in one piece. The more bloodshed the better.

The good news is, I now have 14 "IGNORED" messages on my screen. God I love that function. I'm back up to 2 people on the list again.

[Terwilliger]

73. Shawn "I cant argue so I'll put him on ignore...that will shut him up!"

LOL :eyes:

[economic justice]

93. DPRK for you?

The only country that would suit some of the far, far, far-left radical views is North Korea. Seriously, anyone that wants to "stand up" to America is cheered on and anyone defending OUR country is slapped down. Most all of us opposed the war.....but some have turned into apologists for Saddam, and even radical Islam. Baffling. Again, maybe a trip to South Korea and finding a way into the North would suit you? Nothing else seems to.

[kiahzero]

97. Some people prefer not to argue with those who cheer on terrorists

For crying out loud, you've said that it's OK that this plane was shot down! You'll come back with "Well, that's what the Bushes say that I'm in league with the terrorists."

And you'd be right. Unfortunately, statements like yours are what smear the left as "hating America." Somehow, innocents who had no choice in going to this war (namely soldiers, as I suppose you could make a case that the pilots and crew of the plane could quit their job and hope to find another one) deserve to die because policy-makers they have no influence over chose to send them there.

Where's your line between advocating for "freedom fighters?" Is it OK for Palestinians to kill innocent Jews because they "invaded their land?" Was it OK for Bin Laden to attack the WTC and Pentagon because we "invaded Saudi Arabia?" Was it OK for the IRA to attack British civilians because the British "invaded Ireland?"

I'm curious what terrorists you can sleep at night supporting.

[Terwilliger]

101. I dont support terrorists you unimaginative twit

get a life

[Scott Lee]

103. So Iraqi resistance fighting against a US occupation is "terror"?

You have one bizarro definition of terror. If YOUR nation were invaded, would you consider yourself a terrorst for picking off the invaders if you had a chance?

Are you a quisling?

[economic justice]

106. Terror....yes.

Firing a missile at a delivery plane flying into Iraq is TERROR. This board is full of apologists for Hussein and radical Islam.

[Scott Lee]

104. I say allow the American occupation to leave. Then slam the door.

Fair?

[kentuck]

67. Was Ollie North on board?

Is this a CIA front? Obviously would not want a plane with a USA flag on it? What did they deliver? It was a cargo plane.

[trumad]

78. Ignore all you want

but answer my question... If the shoe was on the other foot and it was your country that was invaded and controlled by a Foreigner’s,wouldn't you shoot at the Foreigner’s?

It's all fair game when you're trying to take back your country from foreign control.

SG2...Quit hyperventillating over Ter and look at the big picture....I guess you're basically saying that it's OK to shoot down an American Military plane but not OK to shoot down an American cargo plane? I mean after all, it's still American, AND after all the Insurgents, freedom fighters, etc hate Americans don't they?

[Walt Starr]

72. Shocking video

To put it in perspective, I have to think of the Chinese invading and occupying the U.S.

Under those conditions, if I had access to a shoulder launched anti-aircraft missile system, I sure as hell would use it on the first target of opportunity!

[wtmusic]

87. There's a remarkable lack of that

(totally correct) 'shoe's on the other foot' thinking coming out of the DOD these days.

[Scott Lee]

105. Preach it, brutha

That's exactly what seems to be flying over the heads of many on this thread. They cannot conceive of of actually FIGHTING a real guerilla war. We have been too spoiled, most of us never knowing what its actually like to defend a homeland.

[AP]

74. Make a note. That's what it looks like when a stinger missile hits a...

...commercial airliner.

This, I would suspect, is circumstantial evidence that that TWA NY-Paris flight in '92 (?) was probably not hit by a stinger. The allegation then was that there was a hole through a section of the plain -- throught seats and fuselage -- that might have been caused by a stinger missile. Well, it looks like stingers hit the engines rather than the fuselage.

Perhaps it was a meteor that smashed through the fuselage of that TWA.

Of course this is totally circumstancial and is not scientific.

[KG]

83. shoulder launched SAMs typically home in on the heat from jet exhaust

its a cheaper and easier to produce technology.

the more sophisticated use radar. that might account for the strike at the mid-fuselage.

[Papa]

89. This stinger did not hit the engine

It hit the left wing close to the end.

[AP]

90. Becaue it was aiming for the engine, right? The engine was on fire.

It must have hit very close to the engine.

[Papa]

92. Looks about 18feet away from the engine, out on the left tip of the wing

Engine was not on fire, it was the wing that was on fire. Im sure that the engine was what the heatseeker was attracted to, but it did not hit or damage the engine.

[KG]

98. if i'm not mistaken - these SAMs explode when w/i a proxmity to the heat

source. they home in on the heat signature and then detonate when they get close enough to the source.

[KG]

79. seems the lesson here is

if you're a foreigner and don't want to get shot at, stay the fuck out of iraq.

[slackmaster]

82. I'll drink to that

:toast:

[Fescue4u]

94. They look like KKK'ers

With the hoods over the heads. All they need to do is to bleach their hoods white.

[creativelcro]

95. LINKS are down!!! What is going on...?

[ironflange]

100. Links won't work here either

I'm wondering if all these planes will soon be fitted with flare dispensers. I saw a film long ago of a Russian cargo plane landing in Kabul during the Soviet occupation, and it was dropping so many flares it looked like the Fourth of July.