Why didn't Kerry vote on the medicare bill?

[Demobrat]

Isn't that why he wasn't at the debate in person?

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=108&session=1&vote=00459

[PVnRT]

1. He's too busy campaigning

and shirking the duty to which he was elected.

To be fair, in retrospect, his vote wouldn't have changed the results, but, still, he was not elected by the people of Massachusettes to miss important votes like this trying to be elected President.

[Renew Deal]

4. His excuse is it won't make a difference

In reality, the pukes can't hold a no vote against him.

[Demobrat]

7. So he gets to make a big deal out of

not being at the debate because he's too busy doing his job, and then he just doesn't do it? OK.

[seaglass]

10. He's on the record against it. You think he's going to

campaign now that he was for it? This makes no sense, if the R's want to use it, they can.

[seaglass]

12. Yes, let's be fair.

Are you from Mass.? Did you elect him? I did. I don't have a problem with it.

[matcom]

43. I'm from Mass. I voted to elect him. I volunteered for his campaign.

I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT

he is pissing me off at every turn. he should have cast his fucking vote

[NewYorkerfromMass]

46. That's not fair. He should cast his "fucking vote"

whenever it makes a difference. He is doing what he needs to in order to do his job of representing the best interests of you and the rest of Massachusetts and he should not waste his time doing otherwise.

[matcom]

49. no he is NOT

had he VOTED, he would have been doing his JOB. he DIDN'T and therefore he is NOT representing MY interests as a MA resident.

i know it hurts you but THAT is his fucking "JOB"

[NewYorkerfromMass]

53. His job is to pass the legislation that counts

wasting time on votes that don't affect the outcome is wasted time.
Your lack of faith in Kerry is completely unjustified.

[matcom]

54. NO. WRONG

HIS JOB IS TO CAST HIS VOTE ON LEGISLATION THAT IS BOTH IMPORTANT AND NOT-SO-IMPORTANT. HIS JOB IS TO VOTE. HE GETS PAID A SHIT-LOAD OF MONEY TO DO SO.

guess it isn't so bad. the LAST IMPORTANT vote he cast was sure a hit (as it sent young men and women to their DEATH)

GREAT FUCKING TRACK RECORD.

ever think that HAD he SHOWN UP, he MIGHT have been able to persuade a few others to SWITCH????????????

naw...... jumping on a bus for a fledgling campaine is MUCH more important. just WAIT until a group of seniors accost him getting out of HIS car to scream him down. THAT will "look good"

remember: I CAMPAIGNED FOR HIM before you start throwing punches.

Kerry FUCKED UP BIGTIME. you don't think the other's are going to throw him AND LIEberman to the wolves for this?

CHRIST!!!! HE CAN'T EVEN STAND ON A STAGE AND USE THIS LEGISLATION AGAINST BUSH NOW BECAUSE HE DIDN'T FUCKING VOTE

[MUAD_DIB]

55. So if Kerry wants to he could just skip all the votes for

the upcomming year?

He is our employee, in reality, and it just looks bad.

I wish that I had the luxury of doing whatever I want and have 100% job security.


I don't think that this is as much a lack of faith as it is a lack of common sense on how it will appear to the electorate.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

57. So how does his voting against cloture "appear"?

since you are so concerned about appearances

Note: When people "have it in" for someone it's pretty easy to spot.

[matcom]

59. talking to ME? how do I have it "IN" for Kerry

when i VOLUNTEERED FOR HIM??????????

his vote against CLOTURE was GREAT! he SHOULD have stuck around for the REAL VOTE.

as i said, maybe he could have changed some minds.

ahhhh, Kerry gets the nod and during the first debate with Bush*:

Bush*: "I delivered on my Medicaid promise and gave seniors drug benefits"

Kerry: "You shortchanged seniors......"

Bush*: "Senator, you didn't think it was important enough to vote on. You went back to Iowa to politicize this legislation..."

Kerry: "Mr President, I voted to fillabuster your legislation....."

Bush*: "Senator, exactly HOW did you vote on the Bill....?"

Kerry: "I didn't."

Bush*: "Uh Huh, that's what Mr Rove TOLD ME you would say...."

FUCKING NICE

[MUAD_DIB]

62. I don't have it in for Kerry, but I DO expect him to DO

his job. Not half of it. That goes for everybody, and double for presidential candidates. That should go without saying.

Please don't get testy with me because Kerry wanted to get back to winning the candidacy and didn't have the time to vote.

This is Public Spotlight Stuff, whether you want to angry over it or not, and he should have known better.


Thanks for the link.

[matcom]

67. wow. suddenly this thread is AMAZINGLY quiet

:shrug:

someone run out of shallow arguments???

:shrug:

[NewYorkerfromMass]

69. If you insist.....

Kerry's got the best and longest track record of any liberal running.
His not voting on this is so unimportant in the big picture that I really can't waste anymore of my time on it- apparently Kerry reached the same conclusion.

[matcom]

71. not so fast

answer my questions (read back up for the LIST).....

BUT

specifically: please explain to me how he wins this in a debate with the DUMBEST MAN TO EVER HOLD OFFICE?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

this may be the BIGGEST political blunder ANY man has made ESPECIALLY going up against DIM SON

EXPLAIN to me HOW he can 'wiggle' his way out of this when the MEDIA WILL BE FOCUSING ON IT?????????

HOW does he tell SENIORS HE has 'fought' for THEM???

i don't think its possible.

[bearfartinthewoods]

61. i'm big on Kerry but this still suxs....n/t

[MUAD_DIB]

50. He was there to vote and he should have.

It is surprising that Kerry is running for the Democratic nomination at all in the sense that he expects us to vote for him, but he can have a gimmie on important issues: no matter how close or winnable they are.

He is there to represent him MA constituency.

Vote dammit!

The only other congressman there that did not vote was Leiberman.

What's his excuse?

[matcom]

51. Leiberman's excuse is he probably would have voted AYE

repukes always stick together

[Renew Deal]

2. Because he is running for president silly.

:puke:

[bryant69]

3. Here is his official statement.

“I cancelled my campaign schedule to return to Washington to fight tooth and nail against this special interest giveaway with a Senate filibuster. We lost that critical vote and I returned to Iowa to take the fight for real, affordable prescription drug relief to the country as I run for President. I fought to stop this special interest giveaway because it offers the wrong prescription for America’s seniors. "

"I am traveling on a bus today in Iowa with seniors who understand that this bill is a raw deal and who want to replace George W Bush with a President who has the courage to fight for real prescription drug benefits that helps our seniors, instead of lining the pockets of drug companies and insurance companies. This vote was a big win for drug companies and a loss for America’s seniors. Seniors are going to find out that they were misled by the Bush Administration when they begin to feel the effects of a bill that does not give them more affordable prescription drugs or a quality Medicare plan that allows them to choose their own doctors and their own hospitals. I ask all seniors to stand with me as we take a stand against this sham."

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2003_1125a.html

I don't know why he didn't vote, other than possibly he saw the way it was going and left early to get back on the road.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[economic justice]

8. indefensible

So, he wants us to elect him president because he uses his seat in the US Senate so effectively? This was truly very weak. This guy, not only the butt of the cartoonists, (all showing him with a face from the clouds to the floor) is becoming a parody of the frantic candidate who is baffled as to why he's not picking up support. To me, that's the real issue with Kerry.....you learn a lot when they're feeling heat.

[bryant69]

15. And if he had stayed

well, you could have slammed into him for wasting time with a nonsensical vote that he couldn't do anything about, I presume?

Bryant

[economic justice]

22. Yes

That's what he's paid to do. REPRESENT Massachussetts. That means TAKING A STAND in the roll call and being ON THE RECORD. That's a pretty simple concept...and one that shouldn't need defending....except, I guess, in a campaign season.

[spindoctor]

13. Not good enough. He blew it.

But I guess it is about time that candidates start dropping.

Thank you for your contributions sofar, Senator Kerry. We had a few good laughs and your comments on the President are much appreciated.

You are however, the weakest link...bye...bye.

[realFedUp]

38. It wasn't a good idea to skip that vote

for anyone.

[Hep]

40. Thanks so much for that.

I appreciate the effort to get information.

So the debate didn't take place live?

[MUAD_DIB]

52. It matters.

This just makes him look bad.

[calimary]

64. If he cared enough to filibuster for it, he should have seen it through to

the end. I noticed and it did not impress me.

[blm]

5. He went back to filibuster. The bill had the votes. He went back

to the campaign trail. No mystery.

[PVnRT]

11. Is this what he will do as president, then?

Say, gee, oh well, can't get the votes, no point in trying? Yeah, that's what I want in the White House.

[w4rma]

27. I'm not going to slam Kerry for this. His tactics were good, IMHO.

But, I'm tempted to, because I know that you, blm, would slam Dean over this if Dean did it.

[Carolina]

34. no guts, no spine, no balls either

So he badgers Dean at the debate about Medicare; he talks about the moral issue behind this bill and this vote, and then doesn't even cast a
vote. WTF? He votes wrong when he does vote (IWR) and doesn't vote when he should simply because the votes aren't there. Spare me your justifications, you sound just like him trying to spin. He's gone, toast, Titanic.

[sandnsea]

6. He's an asshat

That's why. There's absolutely no excuse for him not putting his vote down on this most important issue. I'm just sick of our whole party today.

[lastliberalintexas]

9. Amen

You and I can finally agree on something sandnsea.

(not a slap at Kerry personally, just at the utter spinlessness of our party in general)

[Beaker]

14. I was going to say "spineless jelly-balled butt-weasel shit-bag"...

I don't think that "asshat" is definitive enough in this case.

Rich boy just took himself out of the running for the nomination, as if he ever had half the chance he felt was pre-ordained that he should be entitled to.

what a work of loose bowels Kerry really is.

[sandnsea]

18. Not as bad as some others

Kucinich is the only one who is always 100% consistent for the working people. The rest vary in degrees, with Dean and Lieberman the absolute worst.

[Carolina]

35. gotta remember that one

a work of loose bowels

[hippiechick]

17. Didn't want to go on record ...

... as being against it - for the Pugs to use against him... or being for it - for the other Dem contenders to use against him.

He refused to take a stand so as not to have to defend himself or explain to 'the other half of the country' why he decided how he did.

He wussed out of the entire situation.

That's not leadership - that's what we already have at 1600 ...
Pass the buck & dodge the shitstorm.


:eyes:



:hippie:

[Scott Lee]

19. Vintage Kerry. "What will save my image?"

Not to worry, John. After your campaign implodes you still have the Duchess of Heinz' fortune, and her wonderful limousine liberal work.

[Don_G]

16. If It Was Such A Big Issue To Him

He should have done his job, stayed and voted. He didn't.

He forgets that I can vote in the primary too.

[JaneQPublic]

20. No wonder Dean is polling ahead in Kerry's home state

http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/wire/sns-ap-massachusetts-polls,0,2538061.story?coll=sns-ap-politics-headlines

Poll: Dean Leads Kerry 9 Points in Mass.

BOSTON -- Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean leads rival John Kerry by 9 percentage points in the senator's home state of Massachusetts, according to a survey of likely primary voters.

Dean, the former Vermont governor, had 33 percent support to Kerry's 24 percent in the RKM Research and Communications poll conducted Nov. 19-21 for the Boston Herald and released Monday. Twenty-one percent of those questioned were undecided.

[Armstead]

21. Inexcusable

He goes back so he can showboat, but he couldn't have stayed for a few more hours and at least gone on the record against it with his vote?

At the very least it would have skewed the total more away from it, thus demonstrating more opposition. Now Bush will be even more justified in calling it "bi-partisan."

Kerry's my senator and he's done some good things. But he's looking more and more like a damn phony. This is the latest version of his crocadile tears while voting for Bush's war.

[CWebster]

36. Wow

Does he have any supporters left?

[creativelcro]

23. he tried to block it yesterday

His vote today would have not changed anything...

[madfloridian]

24. I heard Edwards did not vote either. Also Lieberman.

Is that true? I heard all three of them did not vote.

[JaneQPublic]

26. Edwards Voted Nay. Lieberman Didn't Vote (n/t)

[AWD]

25. He was waiting....

....to see how Dean would vote on it, then do the exact same thing. Then, attack Dean for his stance.

When he found out that Dean wouldn't be voting, he got confused.

[sandnsea]

33. Dean voted YES years ago

Dick Gephardt had the foresight back in the 1990's to oppose putting Medicare into HMO's. Not Howard Dean. He jumped right on it and had Vermont's Medicaid plan run by HMO's. Until they pulled out of Vermont, just like Gephardt said would happen with Medicare. This interview was the year Civil Unions was signed, 2000? Not so long ago. Dean has a horrible position and record on HMO's; just like every other Republican idea he's supported.

Healthplan: You've called yourself a fan of HMOs. What are the three best aspects of managed care from your viewpoint?
Dean: The best aspects I can see are not having hassles over billing payments, since you have capitated payments up front. The other positive aspect is the notion that there is a single payment, and doctors-at least in the better health plans-are left to their best judgment.

Healthplan: Vermont, like other states recently, has seen bigger national players exit the local Medicaid market. At the same time, Vermont is expanding its earlier version of managed care-the primary care case management program (PCCM), where the state pays doctors extra to manage the care of their Medicaid patients. What do you see as the future of managed care in Medicaid?
Dean: I think that is going to depend from state to state, and individual states will make that choice. But I think health plans were not able to make enough money from those systems. The primary care case management program (which we're expanding) is very much modeled after some of the good things we found in having a managed care system. And in our case, we felt we were able to administer the (Medicaid) plans for less administrative cost. (Medicaid HMOs) is something I'm glad we tried, but it didn't seem to work.

Healthplan: Do you think consumers should be able to sue their HMO?
Dean: No, I don't think that is helpful. I think lawsuits in general aren't helpful. I favor arbitration. But we do need external review. In Vermont, we have a panel that works with the state government where someone who feels they are not getting proper care from their HMO can appeal. Ultimately, an ombudsman is called in and (where appropriate) the banking and insurance commissioner enforces the HMO to grant the care. I think that is fine. I think that is good. I think that system is much better than lawsuits. The reason is that system takes care of a problem before it gets out of hand. In order to file a lawsuit you have to show damages. Well what's the point of waiting until the patient is damaged so that you can file a lawsuit? I prefer arbitration up front before damage is caused, rather than lawsuits afterward. It certainly has been used in our state and it seems to be used successfully.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/405541

[sandnsea]

45. Dean, an HMO fan, no one cares???

Isn't this interesting. Kerry misses a vote, which totally pisses me off, and that's a crisis to the Deanie's. Dean actually implemented a program strikingly similar to this Medicare debacle and I can't get anyone to notice it.

:wtf:

[Malva Zebrina]

60. I wish that someone can understand that many seniors do not under

stand how to appeal or sue an HMO. Seniors, many, are so vulnerable. So many will just take what is handed to them because they have learned that anything else costs money and they would rather become house hermits. They, many of them, do not have that sort of money, and do not have the resources to ever get that money once they pass a certain age. They have not "job opportunities"

There is needed in every community, no matter how small, some organisation that exists to help seniors. Some place where seniors can go to talk about these things--and become aware of what they need to do. Some community groups that will help seniors in perhaps weekly debating or discussion groups instead of little shit groups that teach seniors how to crochet an afgan. We do not need to just dry up and die, avoiding doctors and medication because we are so afraid that someone will take our house if we cannot pay the bill.

[AP]

68. For real Democrats, that last question should be a campaign killler:

Healthplan: Do you think consumers should be able to sue their HMO?
Dean: No, I don't think that is helpful. I think lawsuits in general aren't helpful. I favor arbitration.

Whazza? That's crazy.

Dean needs to read Four Trials, and he needs to talk to some people I know.

[sandnsea]

75. He chose HMO for Medicaid

That's what the fight is about today and that's what he CHOSE for Medicaid in Vermont. The only reason that isn't the way Medicaid is managed today is because all the HMO companies left Vermont. Which is half the complaint about Medicare HMO's, they'll only go to areas where they can pick the healthiest and leave the rest. Would he support HMO's in Medicare once he's elected? Since he chose it for Vermont, can we trust him not to choose it for Medicare and support this bill that passed today?

Why does this man always choose the Republican solutions first?

Why don't Democrats care?

[MaineDem]

39. You give Dean too much credit

And I assume you were being sarcastic.

I'm not happy Kerry didn't vote but it isn't making me a Deanie.

[AWD]

56. VERY sarcastic

I know how to push a few buttons, so I did.

But yes, I was being sarcastic.

[genius]

28. Kerry voted against cloture. That was the only voted that mattered

The Republicans had enough votes to get it through. However if the Democrats who voted against the bill had joined with Kery, Edwards and Lieberman and voted against cloture, the bill would have been effectively fillibustered. Dashle caved. Only 29 voted agasint cloture.

Akaka (D-HI)
Bayh (D-IN)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Byrd (D-WV)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Chafee (R-RI)
Clinton (D-NY)
Dodd (D-CT)
Durbin (D-IL)
Edwards (D-NC)
Feingold (D-WI)
Graham (D-FL)
Hagel (R-NE)
Harkin (D-IA)
Hollings (D-SC)
Inouye (D-HI)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (D-CT)
McCain (R-AZ)
Reed (D-RI)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Schumer (D-NY)
Stabenow (D-MI)

[last_texas_dem]

29. I imagine

He weighed the value of getting in more campaigning in the hopes of becoming a President who could stop such asinine legislation from becoming law and staying in the Senate to cast a vote against a bill, the outcome of which he couldn't change by a long shot.

I suppose there would have been some symbolic value in him staying to vote against the bill, but I can hardly blame him for making what seems to me to be the most logical choice of action.

[AWD]

31. I'm sorry, that doesn't cut it

I work for a company that monitors radio stations for content.

Today, I know every station is going to play the same 310 songs that they played yesterday, just in a different order. I have no hope of changing that, so why should I show up?

He was elected to represent the people of Massachusetts, not run for President. His priority should be to actually show up for work once in a while.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

47. And you have a job now and therefore should not run for Congress

using that impeccable logic. :eyes:

[Chryslin]

58. No, he is doing BOTH jobs

His current position AND running for office. He does not ignore either one, and does EVERY ounce of both jobs.

That "impeccable logic" says that Kerry ignored his duty to vote on a bill so he can run for President. Jeff is running for Congress but has NEVER missed a day of work in order to do it.

Nice try at spin, though. Failed, but a nice try.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

70. Kerry did his job. He showed up to vote.

And when it was clear his vote wasn't worth a damn he carried on with his other job. Nice try at spin.

[matcom]

72. no, nice try at a positive spin on Kerry's BULLSHIT priorities

:eyes:

[sandnsea]

32. This vote mattered

Edwards understood that and stayed for the vote. Kerry and Lieberman didn't vote so Republicans can't say 'he voted no on Medicare' next year. Where Democrats fail is in realizing that Republicans will happily turn right around and say 'he didn't vote on the most important legislation in a decade'. It's just flat stupid and I don't think it has anything to do with the campaign trail. I think his heart is in the right place, but I don't think he or his campaign really understands what makes the every day population tick. Going on the record was important in this case and he didn't do it. I am incredibly disappointed.

[creativelcro]

30. if you want to do something useful

write a letter of support to Kennedy and Kerry... They did all they could... They were outnumbered...

[Carolina]

37. Kennedy yes

Kerry never

[Zolok]

41. So I guess all you Kerry haters out there on the DU

you'll be trucking on up to Massachusetts to finish him off come campaign 2008 right?

[MaineDem]

42. I'm not happy but I understand why he did it this way

Once the cloture passed the final vote was a given. Everyone knows what he thinks of the bill. He's now in Iowa on a bus with Seniors who also know this is a bad bill. He's fighting for a chance to make it to the White House and change the way things are done.

I think I would have told him to stay until 10AM and then go to Iowa but they didn't ask me.

[FlaGranny]

44. Only if Clinton gets the credit for the economy

we had while he was president. According to the * administration, the economy is always the fault of the previous administration, except when a Republican is in office and the economy improves (if only temporarily). Otherwise, if the economy goes downhill again, we will all be told that some of Clinton's old policies still have a hand in it. Geez, we've got to get that straight, don't we.

[DrFunkenstein]

48. How Quick People Are To Slam Kerry!

They are willing to jump through hoops figuring out what Dean "really meant" for statement after statement, but they can't bother with all that cockroach stuff like cloture votes and such.

They guy left the campaign trail with only weeks before the primaries, was willing to miss the first official debate, and somehow he is twisted into a spineless scumbag by people that haven't done a tenth of what he has done for the Party and for America.

[sandnsea]

63. Hey, I'm mad

I just think it's votes like this that cause us to lose. What's he supposed to say next year? I disrupted my entire campaign to fillibuster but missed the actual vote 12 hours later? It just reeks of political posturing. Better to vote and figure out a plan to deflect the criticism then be seen as spineless. Especially by the centrists and republicans, they hate that more than anything. Damn, I just wish he would have voted.

[MaineDem]

65. I do, too, however

I also think it's important for him to be out there telling Seniors about the shaft they're getting from this bill.

The important vote here was yesterday's and he was there for that. If they could have extended the filibuster this would never have come to a final vote this week. The Senate whips knew where the votes were and Kerry's vote today would not have changed the outcome.

But I do think he could have stayed and cast his vote and then hopped the jet to Iowa. This gives fodder to the opposition and the Kerry-bashers. I'm disappointed but I haven't agreed 100% with any candidate over the years and this fight is no different. This won't change many voters but it will change some, I'm afraid.

[MUAD_DIB]

66. You make an excellent point,

but you are missing the obvious.

It will be used against him...

by the Repugs...

by the owners of the and the media (see above)...

any Dem candiate that wants to embarass Kerry...

and finally...*


Note: I do not hate Kerry and if he is the Dem candidate I will vote for him come '04, but he needs to use his noggin if he wants to get there.

[Myra]

73. Geez, let's cut the guy some slack. He couldn't be in 2 places at once?!

He'd already made the tough call and made
the filibuster a higher priority. In fact he
was leading the filibuster attempt along with
Kennedy. He was totally there to fight the good
fight when/if it mattered.

Then, having other important business, and being
unable to be two place at once, he had to be
another place.

[incapsulated]

74. It's just stupid, from a political standpoint

You put up the good fight, get all sorts of press trying to stop this and then don't show up to cast your "nay" vote? This is your moment to make your final point, to say "I dissent!" Of course it's pure symbolism, that's what most of politics is! And there is going to be an "inferred" symbolism, fair or not, by blowing this vote off.

Look, I always liked Kerry, but this election run seems to have made him do some really stupid things, and this is one of them.

[Monte Carlo]

76. The battle was already lost before the vote.

No one goes into these votes and ends up surprised about the outcome. It was not going to pass, and I don't think it would be smart to stick around in the ultra-slow Senate waiting to formalize a defeat when there's campaigning to be done.

[incapsulated]

77. That was not my point

It's all about appearances and the idea that they don't apply to him. Well, they apply to every politician, and that goes double if you are running for the nomination. It looks bad and it is stupid on his part not to see this. This is an important issue, people are paying attention. Just show up for the fucking vote, it doesn't matter that you can't win, what matter's is that people see that you care enough about it to vote, even if it's just to have your dissent on the record. Plus, it gives the appearance of neglecting your job, you know, the one you were elected to do?

[HazMat]

78. who cares

Kerry has got to stop playing to the Starbucks ghetto/Dean cult anyway. Those people are too invested to see reality. Even though they know deep down that Dean can never win, they could never admit it to themselves because they've invested too much.

Kerry needs to stake out the middle ground positon on Iraq (where most Americans are anyway) .. reaffirm his Clinton-esque position (tough on dictators and terrorism, a multilateral/global approach). He's never going to get the die hard anti-war people, anyway, so it makes no sense to go after that vote. Kerry's position on Iraq is perfect for a general election, as his position on the economy/taxes. Dean's positions are a double barrel shotgun aimed right the head of those concerned most about getting rid of Bush (instead of simply screaming about him).

Whoever stands up to the Deaniebopper wing (by presenting a more practical, mainstream Democratic vision ) will pick up the moderates and the majority of regular Dems who are just tuning in now.

[Forkboy]

79. Who cares?

ask your parents or grandparents.