Clark-Brueax 2004

[WhosNext]

Talk about awesome. Puts LA, TN, AR and FL all in play. We need to win this thing. No more Bush

[Tatiana]

1. HA!

Clark would lose my vote if he ever ran on a ticket with Breaux (sellout!).

[WhosNext]

3. I guess you look forward to losing in 2004

Peace be with you.

[Tatiana]

6. No, I look forward to WINNING!

Winning with candidates who have PROGRESSIVE ideas and values, who will represent the PEOPLE of the United States of America, and who disavow the policies of Bush Inc.

Breaux does not qualify as one of those candidates.

[WhosNext]

7. Says you

I happen to think Breaux is an important member of our team.


btw, Dean will get destroyed in the South. No South, no win.

[salin]

39. interesting...

on what issues do you find Breaux progressive? Perhaps I am missing something.

[WhosNext]

51. Um, he's a DEMOCRATIC SENATOR from the South

That's good enough for me. Can you point out ANY progressive Dem senators from the South really? I know you would enjoy being totally irrelevent there, but not I.

[salin]

54. There are many who are more progressive than he.

There are others who are more tempered than he (less likely to go quite so conservative on so many issues). For example - Graham and Edwards. Heck, while more conservative than my liking I would even opt for retired Sen. Sam Nunn over Breaux. Heck I would even take my senator, of whom I grow increasingly cynical, Sen Bayh - over Breaux. Not southern, but definitely red stater.

[Tatiana]

63. Here's another "DEMOCRATIC SENATOR" from the South....

GA U.S. Senate Sr Zell Bryan Miller Democrat 0

This Democratic Senator votes with the Republicans 100% of the time. If it votes like a Republican, it probably IS a Republican.

[lastliberalintexas]

68. Breaux is much better than Miller, though

And actually has done one thing in the past 3 years which was wonderful for our party- he refused to accept Shrub's offer of a cabinet position. Everyone at the time thought that if Breaux left, LA would elect a repub to replace him and give the Senate to the repubs (we still controlled at the time). And given the state of the state in early 2001, LA very well could have elected a repub, and we would now be facing a repub "incumbent" up for "re"election.

He also refused to switch parties, despite promises from the repub leadership of all kinds of goodies for him and LA.

I'm not saying that Breaux is perfect by any means, but he is still important for caucasing purposes. And he has stayed loyal to the party, which is more than can be said of Miller.

[Tatiana]

74. Well Breaux is more loyal to the party than Zell (who is UTTERLY DISLOYAL)

But that still doesn't excuse the fact that he votes with Republicans the MAJORITY of the time. I guess I just wish we'd set higher standards for our candidates and members of our party.

Breaux's and Baucus's caucusing (whew! Say that 10 times!) is what got us this wonderful Medicare bill. If they had stood in solidarity with Daschle and Rockefeller, who rightfully belonged in conference as well, we wouldn't be looking at this disaster of a bill right now. They helped make this bitter pill more palatable for other Democrats like Feinstein to cross over and vote for it.

Appeasement and making excuses for slackers in our party is getting us nowhere. We need to take action now.

[Tatiana]

57. What can someone like Breaux possibly contribute?

NC U.S. Senate Sr John Reid Edwards Democrat 83
MA U.S. Senate Jr John Forbes Kerry Democrat 83
CT U.S. Senate Jr Joseph I. Lieberman Democrat 75
SD U.S. Senate Sr Thomas A. 'Tom' Daschle Democrat 75

Republicans with a more liberal voting record than Breaux:

ME U.S. Senate Sr Olympia J. Snowe Republican 50
ME U.S. Senate Jr Susan M. Collins Republican 50
SC U.S. Senate Jr Lindsey O. Graham Republican 47

Lindsey Graham, a REPUBLICAN, has a better voting record than John Breaux. That's sad.

LA U.S. Senate Sr John B. Breaux Democrat 42

I don't think 42% is good enough for the Dem ticket.

(From Congress Watch)

http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_detail.php?sig_id=001575W&PHPSESSID=af1cc132eddb9e935ef6afcd63863d4d

[salin]

59. shhhh

you are going to blow the idea that the only people here criticizing this brilliant idea are those who think that any person who supports any democratic candidate beyond Kucinich and Dean are republicans... don't even raise the point that some criticism might have... merit.

[Tatiana]

72. Silly me.

Ya know, I just thought MAYBE we could go back and really analyze voting records to find out who supported progressive ideas and who votes with the Republicans. As much as they are villified, Lieberman and Daschle will at least support their Democratic counterparts the majority of the time. Even Evan Bayh does.

(IN U.S. Senate Jr B. Evan Bayh Democrat 67)

NV U.S. Senate Sr Harry M. Reid Democrat 100
MD U.S. Senate Sr Paul S. Sarbanes Democrat 100
WI U.S. Senate Jr Russell D. Feingold Democrat 100

Fact is that Harry Reid, Paul Sarbanes, and Russ Feingold are our most liberal Senators. Even more liberal than Dick Durbin, Robert Byrd, and Ted Kennedy. I really, truly, hope we can get a President who will return this government to one that is BY and OF the people... NOT the corporations and special interests.

[lastliberalintexas]

2. No

while I still think Breaux is important for us in the Seante for caucasing purposes, I might actually have to vote against a ticket with a Shrub enabler on it. Breaux just voted for the Medicare Massacre, in case you didn't know. The Pres and VP candidates must EACH have a spine.

And LA is *already* in play for next year.

[WhosNext]

4. Not with Dean on the top of the ticket.

It has to be Clark for LA to be in play. Period. Anyone who thinks Dean will win even one Southern state has their head in the sand in my opinion.

[ryharrin]

9. Anyone who thinks that Dean doesn't put

every state into play has their head in the sand in my opinion. Who's right? I don't know, neither of us have any stronger arguments than the other.

[WhosNext]

12. I have history as evidence

You think a liberal governor from Vermont is going to win Louisiana, Tennessee and Florida? lmao

[ryharrin]

71. First of all, there are tons of people here who would disagree that

Dean is liberal. As for history, when was the last time a governor from Vermont ran for president? Either before the 1900's, or never. Either way, things have changed. Dean defies pidgeonholing, and that is his greatest strength. He's NOT just a liberal governor from Vermont. He's a fighter, and he won't let the RW paint him in any way he doesn't like. He has the will and the money to fight it.

[mrgorth]

11. Can you please

seperate the fact that this person doesn't like Breaux and isn't saying anything about Clark or Dean? Thanks.

[lastliberalintexas]

17. Are you fixated on Dean?

I didn't even use his name in my post, did I? My post was directed at Breaux and the lack of backbone the man has shown lately. While I will probably still send money to his Senate campaign, I do not want him anywhere near our ticket.


Do you live in LA or the South? I'm in Beaumont, which is just considered Louisiana-lite by the rest of Texas. Sorry to disappoint you, but LA probably will vote for any of our candidates next year, given recent trends in that state- it's just a matter of turnout. And while any of our people can work the campaign and win in LA, Dean has an army of supporters to hit the ground with in LA to get turnout up. LA is not as fundie repub as the rest of the South, and should not be written off, most esp by Dean or Clark.

Sorry that your hatred of Dean apparently prohibits you from making an honest analysis of that race. I don't particularly care for Clark, but can admit that he would do well in LA too. Unfortunately, others are apparently unable to set their personal biases aside and look at things objectively.

[WhosNext]

19. Not a hate of Dean, a hate of losing.

Which is what will happen if Dean is the nominee. He's the perfect fall guy for 2004. Please remember my words. I have absolutely no doubt in what I'm saying.

[lastliberalintexas]

24. Still all opinion

and no actual analysis. Why am I not surprised? :eyes:

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

29. It seems your reaction to any challenge is to make glib comments.

[WhosNext]

31. I will enjoy visiting this board in Nov 2004 if Dean is the nom

I will LOL many times. It will be a LOL with alot of angst behind it, as you and your ilk just wouldnd't listen. lmao why do you think the media is proping up Dean as "the front runner"? Is the media normally liberal? Why would they be in this case all of the sudden? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Screaming Lord Byron]

33. That's a point. Why do you come here?

If you disagree with all of us so much.

[WhosNext]

35. Last I checked this was a forum for Democrats

Is it not? I don't appreciate your hijacking of it.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

36. Well then, what are your own personal politics?

[WhosNext]

41. I want more money spent on education, less on bullshit

I also want a balanced budget. I disagree with the garbage going on in Iraq. I do not personally feel that the United States should be the policeman of the world. I also don't like being lied to repeatedly by the federal government. I disagree with the current medicare bill because it is nothing but more deficit spending. I personally feel that federal spending on public education should be twice of what it currently is. I envision the day were everybody has a chance to go to college without being mounted in debt once they're done. I like John Edwards in that regard. I believe taxes don't need to be much higher than they currently are. The problem is the wasteful spending. Cut the spending on things such as military technology. I think the military wage could actually be increased.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

44. Not particularly different from Howard Dean then.

I don't get your obsessive anti-Dean stance.

[WhosNext]

The guy is a loser

He will lose if he is the nominee. Wait and watch.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

53. If Dean gets the nomination. How will you vote?

[Screaming Lord Byron]

73. No response. Does that mean you wouldn't vote Dean in 2004?

[lastliberalintexas]

45. You are kidding, right?

Because you just cited the majority of Dean's positions, almost verbatim!

Good gawd- my kingdom for someone who actually knows the positions of the candidates. :eyes:

[WhosNext]

49. Who says I disagree with him?

Doesn't mean I think the guy will WIN.

[AWD]

56. Soooo.....

...if you agree with somebody but won't vote for him because he won't win, are you supporting somebody who you DISagree with but WILL win.

Hell, just vote for Bush, why doncha?

[salin]

43. interesting...

your premise... Dean at the top of the ticket would lose...

your post... if Dean is at the top of the ticket - you would laugh (glee?) as an I told you so to Democrats (glee at Bush Winning?)

Really?

I think that if I believed a) that the person democratically selected (lets presume the primary process still works in this country) as the nominee - was going to lose to bush that 1) I would work like heck, even if I didn't like the candidate, to make sure that wasn't the case; and 2) if said candidate still lost - I would be commisserating with others about four more years of bush. That is - under NO circumstance would I find glee in gloating if the end result is bush.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[salin]

50. the tone

betrayed glee. LMAO isn't exactly an angst driven term. More of a snotty I told you so sorta term. Hence the "glee" behind being able to say "I told you so." Inference is a gift.

[lastliberalintexas]

37. Yep, resort to personal attacks

First, your "analysis" of Dean's chances that you pointed to is still just your opinion. You are entitled to it just as anyone is. But please don't try to pass that off as an actual analysis of objective facts.

Second, you also resort to personal attacks of Dean, yet claim you don't hate him. Hmmm...

Finally, you know nothing of me personally nor my political experience. For your information, I have worked on campaigns for the past 25 years, worked 2 years in DC, run a state senate campaign, and currently run my county Dem club. You can make any snide comment that you wish, but simply trying to dismiss me as young is a wholly inaccurate picture of me politically.

Again, I pointed to recent voting trends in LA, the numbers of Dean supporters who've shown a willingness to hit the road campaigning for him, and the fact that LA is not a typical repub Southern state- objective, verifiable facts. I did not bash any of our candidates in doing so, and even said something good about someone other than my favorite. All that you have done is respond with your opinion, snide remarks and personal attacks.

Until you can actually participate in a discussion of the issues and elctioneering matters, you aren't worth the time it takes to type out responses. Good day.

[WhosNext]

42. Personal attacks? Looks and behavior are relevent to why people vote

It is an unfortunate truth in today's TV age.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

5. Brueax can...

can kiss my ass.

He may as well have "Bush" for a last name, they way he's been voting.

[oasis]

66. Breaux 's not as bad as Zell Q. Miller, but not far behind. If Bush wins

in 2004 Breaux would gladly assume Zell Q's title of "Most Prominent Bush Ass Kisser."

[BurtWorm]

8. No to Breaux.

In any capacity for the party. He's a collaborator.

[markus]

10. Breaux does not want to by President

Senate majority leader, yes. President, no.

Said so many times. Heard him with my own ears, publicly and privately.

I think Edwards is a much more attractive VP candidate, and still young enough to want to take it against future campaigns for President.

[WhosNext]

15. He is another good choice, yes.

I would support Breaux for Senate leader also.

[salin]

48. I far prefer Edwards, I also like Graham.

I think Florida's Graham would make a terrific vice president.

[genius]

13. Anyone who alligns himself with Brueax has lost my vote

I don't think Clark's that stupid.

[AWD]

14. On which party's ticket????

[WhosNext]

16. Not on your Green Party, that's for sure.

[AWD]

55. "My" Green party???

I'm a Democrat, not a green.

Please explain.

[indigo32]

60. You might be interested to know

that the "Jeff Seemann" in AWD's sig line... IS AWD. He is running for US Congress as a DEM.

[FrenchieCat]

18. I had thought of Breaux

because I heard he was retiring....and if we won ARK and LA we would not need Florida.....

But the more I have heard about him, and the more I see his hand in the helping of the new Medicaire bill......the more I say no.

Clark has enough of a moderate appeal and doesn't need Breaux for that. Actually a woman that's a domestic policy wonk would be good.

Hey, Hillary, are you busy????

[WhosNext]

20. No Hillary

Talk about polarizing. Not what we need right now. I like Biden, Edwards, Graham and possibly Harkin.

[JohnKleeb]

21. Do you think Dean wont win because hes too left or hes perceived that way

I think Harkin is to Dean's left and I have to say, Harkin is one of my favorite senators.

[WhosNext]

25. Dean will get marginalized immediately.

Not to sound vain, but he is a short, smug, unemotional liberal (he will be perceived this nationally anyway) governor from the most irrelevent state in the Union. He isn't a particularly good debator or orator. He will get blasted as "soft on terrorism" because of his anti-war stance (Clark can avoid this because he is A) from the South B) has 'general' in front of his name C) has 4 stars on his shoulders D) was shot four times in Vietnam E) has actually LED massive multinatl ops into foreign lands and has written friggin BOOKS on the subject). He will get blasted as "out of touch" for his stance on gay marriage (which is what it will be called nationally), and the last and WORST problem I see with Dean is the fact that the guy is campaigning on RAISING middle class tax rates. The guy is actually running on RAISING taxes for the middle class lol. Talk about a recipe for disaster. Not to mention Dean has absolutely ZERO experience when it comes to military/terrorist matters et al. Dean is the PERFECT fall guy for Republicans in 2004. MARK MY WORDS, PEOPLE.

[salin]

52. Graham, Edwards and Harkin

are all I would agree with. I don't think Biden has the mettle to stand down tough opposition anymore. He did for a while in the 1980s - I was (briefly) behind his presidential run in 1988. But something happened between his campaign's implosion in '88, and the hostility in the Thomas hearings, that left him without the stand-down fight that he once had.

[kiahzero]

64. I like Biden too

If he had jumped into the race, I think my support would have been split between Clark and Biden.

I think it'd be a good match, in terms of personality, too. Based on what I've seen of Biden, he attacks the opposition in much the same way as Clark (subtle, yet sharp). Yeah, sure, I don't like that he voted for the DMCA, and I don't like his RAVE act, but those aren't litmus tests.

[lastliberalintexas]

70. Hillary? No, no, no!

Do you want to guarantee the repubs win every Southern state- and maybe every Western state? Do you have any idea how high voter turnout would be down here- just so people could vote AGAINST her? You greatly underestimate the amount of hatred she still inspires in this part of the country.

No matter who heads up the ticket, she'd greatly reduce our chances.

[mobuto]

22. Breaux is smart as hell, but

he's anti-choice, supports drilling ANWR, and was the lead Senate sponsor of Bush's insane tax cut to the wealthy. All in all, he's as conservative as any Republican elected north of the Mason-Dixon line not surnamed Santorum.

There are other Southerners - Roy Barnes, for example, or Bob Graham, or Mark Warner - who would do just as well at picking up a few in the South, and whose stance on the issues wouldn't run contrary to the ideals embodied in the Democratic Party. Now don't get me wrong, Breaux is a good man. And he's as sharp as anybody I've ever seen -- but he's not the right man to represent us nationwide.

[Donna Zen]

23. Brueax is retiring iirc

And I think there are much better choices for VP. People vote for the top of the ticket, the VP spot needs to be played carefully. Clark needs an insider from a region where a fight could result in a state or two. OTOH, we are in danger of losing four Senate seats in the South...OMG, thinking about that hurts my head.

[Kahuna]

26. Could happen.

:shrug:

[WhosNext]

28. Thanks for not responding with some extreme left rant.

[realFedUp]

30. No to Breaux

talk about Republican-Lite...

[WhosNext]

32. Yes, if you don't nut-hug Dean and Kucinich you're a Republican!!

John McCain is Democrat!!!!

[salin]

58. ?

somehow folks not responding positively to Breaux... is equated to only considering supporters of Dean and Kucinich non-republicans... (thats a new one... ) ... and some kind of nonsequitor about John McCain? Completely lost me with that response.

BTW there are tons of supporters of candidates other than Dean and Kucinich on these forums. They are not equated with being republicans. They also are not as close to GOP ideology or positions on issues as the senator who is the topic of this thread. Perhaps the resistance is more to the identification of one of the most conservative democrats in the senate (this side of Zell Miller), rather than some kind of alignment against all non Dean/Kucinich supporters.

[mndemocrat_29]

34. You've got the wrong senator from Louisiana

Clark/Landrieu in 2004!

[Renew Deal]

40. Here is a man with vision

:toast:

[Donna Zen]

65. Very interesting:

A General does have the option of a woman on the ticket.

I'm thinking out west or the heartland. Anybody?

[mndemocrat_29]

69. Possible female candidates out west or in the heartland

Rep. Dianne Feinstein (though I know a lot of people on DU who would object to this)
Rep. Ellen Tauscher
Rep. Loretta Sanchez
Rep. Betty McCollum

However, Clark/Landrieu would make a better ticket than any of them.

[Tatiana]

75. No.

Too conservative. Like someone mentioned, Graham would draw Southern votes and support the most important ideals of the Democratic Party.

[AmericanDem]

38. Clark/Gephardt

Clark/Gephardt is the winning ticket. NO Brueax. Perhaps Brueax can hook up with Zell Miller. They both seem to be coming from the same place lately. They can travel the country as the new Abbott & Costello!


:kick:

[Donna Zen]

67. Agreed

That has been my choice all along. Could even mean the pick up of a Senate seat in Ohio. MO comes with a lot of electoral votes. Also, Gep knows healthcare and pushing legislation.

[Tom Rinaldo]

46. If Clark wanted another Southerner

I would support Edwards, or maybe Graham if you consider Florida the South (part is, part isn't). There are other more moderate Southerners as well. Clark doesn't need to lean strongly right with the VP pick to win the election, he needs to keep the Democratic base energized to campaign for him, not just vote for him. Brueax would hurt him there, seeming to confirm some Dem activist fears if Clark were to pick him. Dean might be helped some by a pick like Brueax in some regards, since he is suspect in the South, but Dean wouldn't swing that far right for a VP either, I am confident of that (and glad of that as well).

[Capn Sunshine]

61. you get a great slogan out of it

"GEAUX

Clark-Breaux"

[Jacobin]

62. I'm from Louisiana. FORGET John Breaux (and learn to spell his name)

He's only slightly to the left of Zell. If you want someone from Louisiana, try Mary Landrieu, or better yet, don't

Clark is already a southerner (Arkansas)....why double up??????

[dfong63]

76. now there's a ticket that'd make me stay home on election day