Enraged at a Debate Question

[Jawja]

Last night, Tom Brokow asked Wesley Clark a question about 60% of people who go to church voted for Bush in 2000 and 60% or so that don't go to church voted for Al Gore.

I thought Clark gave a good answer; however, I am deeply disturbed and outraged at such a question. It so obviously implies that the GOP is the party of the God fearing and the Democrats are the party of the heathens. There's nothing new in this perception, I know, but Brokow having asked such a question continues to give this stupid idea legitimacy.

I am so sick and tired of religion dominating politics! I am tired of media complicity in this. I am weary of Falwell and Robertson being presented by the media as legitimate spokesmen for Christians in America. I am tired of religion dividing our country over women's rights and gay rights. I am tired of the Republican Party using the ignorance of religious fanatics to maintain power. I am tired of the Hebrew Ten Commandments being associated with our legal system when it has no relevance to our legal system (thankfully, the county of my birth in Georgia rejected putting them in the courthouse square. Rep. Charlie Norwood is leading the charge in Northeast Georgia. He wants to "break the ACLU").

I just wanted to rant. I don't rant much on DU. I read and think. I thank you all for your input and discussion.

Sincerely,

A Bible-belt born and raised independent thinker. (with love thanks to my Late Father)

on edit: correct some grammar.

[childslibrarian]

1. Hey, rant away!

I agree whole heartedly!!!

[Jawja]

2. Thanks.

I feel better.

[kiahzero]

3. Well, given that

only about 20% of Americans go to church regularly, who's more in touch with the people?

:D

[Jawja]

5. I would agree!

The best answer to that question is: "the more enlightened voted for Gore."

I have nothing against people who have faith and attend Church regulary, as folks in my family; it's those who think they are somehow better than those that choose a different path.

[Yupster]

25. From 2000 Exit Polls

It does seem to be a sorting issue between the parties.

14 % of voters said they attend religious services more than once a week

Gore 36 %
Bush 63 %

28 % of voters said they attend religious services Weekly

Gore 40 %
Bush 57 %

14 % of voters said they attend religious services Monthly

Gore 51 %
Bush 46 %


28 % of voters said they attend religious revices Seldom

Gore 54 %
Bush 42 %


14 % of voters said they Never attend religious services

Gore 61 %
Bush 32 %

[mmonk]

4. I think Tom raised it

so the Dems could answer it since the poll itself was meant to present a certain outlook.

[Jawja]

6. Absolutely, mmonk

Clark gave a great answer.

I'm just sick and tired of GOP = "good Christian people" and Democrats/Liberals/Progressives = "heathens and God haters"

[Cocoa]

7. it let Clark allude to Bush's drinking

his "compelling personal story."

Second time in two days Clark referred to it. :-)

[Jawja]

Indeed!

:bounce:

[david_vincent]

8. Theocrats are traitors

A strong statement, but in light of the facts of the case, I believe it to be accurate.
"The government of the United States of America is not in any way founded on the principles of the Christian religion." - John Adams

[Fleshdancer]

9. what the hell kind of poll was that?

"60% of people who go to church voted for Bush in 2000 and 60% or so that don't go to church voted for Al Gore."

I heard Clark's answer last night, but I wasn't out of the room when the question was being asked. What kind of crap is this?

[pinkpops]

10. Some folks wear their religion on their sleeves

Others consider it a private matter.

[the_real_38]

11. It's outrageous on multiple levels -

(1) These assholes keep asking the candidates about perceptions of the process , instead of real issues.

(2) What it infers - that the righteous prefer Bush, and us liberal heathens liked Gore.

[Turkw]

12. Al's right

Al Sharpton is right, we need the right christians to battle the christian right! Unfortunatly being a taoist, I don't qualify. ;)

[PROGRESSIVE1]

13. I was taken aback by that question and....

the question to Kucinich about North Korea. Also, the question about gay marriage was meant to get a recorded copy of evidence that the Democrats are "pro-gay" and "anti-morality".

Brokow was acting like a Media Ho last night!

[pansypoo53219]

14. too bad brokaw didn't understand

that most of the asses in the pulpit TOLD their sheeple to vote for Bush.

[agingdem]

15. I'll be honest...

up until today I was leaning towards Kerry, however, after today's medicare vote I called both his Washington campaign office and his Boston office. I wanted to know why the Dems are still making nice and why the leadership is so ineffectual. I spoke to two people that had absolutely no clue about anything. I've had enough. Go Dean!!!

[tabatha]

16. "Enraged at a Debate Question"

Religion is a very bad thing to discuss with respect to politics. The Apartheid government was justified on religious grounds; it was supported by the religious right; their history and destiny were always couched in religious terms. And it was one of the most repugnant governments in history, relegating the black population to the most awful disruption of family and culture in appalling living conditions, that ultimately became the breeding ground for the worst plague to hit South Africa, AIDS.

[dolo amber]

17. Hi Tabatha

Welcome to DU! :hi:


You're exactly right about Apartheid leading to the AIDS crisis. It's utterly unconscionable. And I heard today on NPR that of the MILLIONS of Africans suffering with HIV and AIDS, only about 300 have access to the drug therapies they need. It's sickening.

[tabatha]

21. Thanks for the welcome

Since Clark asked this question, I tried to post it on the Clark blog. However, I can't seem to register, at least today. If anyone would like to post it there, I would be grateful as it is a reminder of the historical consequences of religious tolerance.

[tabatha]

23. oops

oops, meant intolerance...

[Jawja]

20. Yes, Tabatha, you are so right.

and so was slavery in the American South, the persecution and murder of the American Indians, and Hitler used it in his campaign of hatred against the Jews. Not to mention the Christian crusades against the Muslims and inquisition against "heathens."

Religion is much too often used to justify policy.

That's why I am so sick and tired and outraged at the use of religion by the GOP to take and maintain power and now to murder and steal in the name of "good versus evil."

[spanone]

18. Welcome to Bushs' new democracy

Enforced by John Ashcroft

[Woodstock]

19. I found this article you might like - they are not Christian

http://www.counterpunch.org/sullivan07082003.html

...In order to illustrate a point, let us consider a single pretext: Bush's that he is a devout Christian. Many people accept Bush's assertion at face value despite the preponderance of evidence to the contrary. Ask yourself: What kind of man was Jesus Christ? First and foremost he was a peace maker. Is George Bush a peace maker? No. Bush has the blood of thousands of innocent people on his hands. Bush couldn't wait for the weapons of mass destruction to rain down on the innocent roofs of the Iraqi people.

It seemed as if Bush would burst out of his skin if the world didn't allow him to have his slaughter. Jesus shunned wealth and possessions; he wisely knew that these things corrupt men's souls. Does Bush shun wealth and possessions? Hardly. He covets wealth, especially oil; none more so than Iraqi oil. His policies have placed huge burdens upon the working poor in America and abroad, while simultaneously giving more wealth to the rich. Jesus Christ spoke profound truth in the form of parables. Does Bush speak truth?...

Bush speaks with candor only occasionally at best. He lied repeatedly about the threat posed by Iraq. He has repeatedly lied to the world about US imperialism and plans for world domination. In fact, he has lied about just about everything. Remember the mushroom clouds over Cincinnati that Saddam Hussein was about to unleash? Bush has publicly stated time and again that there is a demonstrable link between the events of 9/11, Al Qaeda, and Saddam Hussein; so has Rumsfeld, Rice and Powell. Yet not a single shred of tangible evidence has ever been brought forth in support of this statement---presumably because none exists. Even Bush's own intelligence community has stated this, including, oddly enough, Secretary of State Colin Powell. Jesus Christ ...was a tireless advocate for social justice. What has Bush done for the working class people?

The answer: absolutely nothing. He steals from the working people by inflating the military budget (building more weapons of mass destruction), thus denying critical social services to the neediest Americans, including the health care that every American is entitled to. Simultaneously, Bush continues to give ever more welfare (tax cuts) to his rich associates and corporate cronies, such as Kenny Boy Lay of Enron. Bush, like all neo-conservatives, staunchly opposes raising America's pathetic minimum wage to an actual living wage. Of course, this is detrimental to the family structure and has a perverse effect on the entire social fabric. Bush is a purveyor of class warfare; the avowed enemy of organized labor. He is one of the ruling classes endowed with special privileges that ninety-nine percent of us don't have. His policies always have a common denominator: they disproportionately benefit the rich and harm the poor. By now it should be apparent to all but the clinically deceased that a clear pattern is evident. Is there anything at all and in the least degree Christ-like about George W. Bush (suppressed laughter)?...To call Bush a Christian is to make a mockery of all those good people who have truly devoted their lives to real Christian moderation, self-sacrifice and service to the poor and politically disenfranchised. Now, Jimmy Carter is a Christian, as evidenced by his unstinting service to community and earth, especially the needy. Not to mention the moral authority he derives from his respect for the truth...

[Jawja]

22. Exactly and thank you...

Thanks for the link.

Yes, George W. Bush is a flaming fraud. He, like all of the GOP, are using Evangelical and Born Again and Fundamentalist Christians to maintain power.

The corporate media helps them do it when they present the likes of Robertson, Falwell, Dobson, etc. as leaders of the American Christian community. They support it when it becomes a question in a Presidential debate.

The ignorance of those who support George W. Bush because he is a "good Christian Man" and the hypocrisy of those who pander for their votes are dividing our country when we need to be united in order to stand against real threats to our way of life.

[dutihampi]

24. I'm personally glad he asked it

that question.. For way too long the repugs have labebled themselves as more religous than democrats and our guys have let them control this topic. It was way past time for one of our guys to stand up and say that Democrats are spiritual people as well... The majority of dems go to church, believe in god, etc.

So, bravo Wes Clark!! It's about time we dems take back the debate on religion, we've let the repugs have it too long..