U.K. Telegraph Article about Dean, Kerry, Clark and Bush

[FrenchieCat]

This article does go into the heart of what this election is all about, IMO. And why those who's first goal is to beat Bush should read this article now.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/11/24/wdean24.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/11/24/ixnewstop.html
Howard Dean, the front-runner for the Democratic presidential
nomination, has admitted dodging the Vietnam draft, obtaining a
medical deferment for a back condition and then spending 10 months
skiing.
--------------
The "draft-dodger" label may have little impact on Dr Dean's key
supporters - hard-core Democratic activists who thrill to his angrily anti-war, anti-Bush message. But it will raise fresh fears among members of the Democratic Party's national establishment, who fear that the former governor of Vermont would be ballot box poison in a national election.
---------------
The Republican Party yesterday broadcast the first Bush television
advertisement of the 2004 campaign, which accused Democrats of being
soft on terrorism. The advertisement sent a strong signal that the September 11 attacks -and the war on terror that followed - will form a centrepiece of Mr Bush's re-election strategy. The commercial, created by the Republican Party's national committee,
shows Mr Bush declaring the war on terror "a contest of will in which perseverance is power".

The screen then carries the words: "Some are now attacking the
President for attacking the terrorists." It then switches to: "Some
call for us to retreat." Republican officials confirmed this was a
reference to Dr Dean, and his calls for American troops to be brought home.

[oasis]

1. If the ad was a reference to Dr. Dean, then lying GOP bastards should

put his picture in the ad and not paint all dems with the same brush.

It was a cowardly ad and Gillespie/Rove will regret their pedestrian attempt at shaping public opinion.

[FrenchieCat]

4. It said may have little impact on KEY supporters.....

So that would be you....

The "draft-dodger" label may have little impact on Dr Dean's key
supporters - hard-core Democratic activists who thrill to his angrily anti-war, anti-Bush message. But it will raise fresh fears among members of the Democratic Party's national establishment, who fear that the former governor of Vermont would be ballot box poison in a national election

[JNelson6563]

14. I say bring it

draft dodger sounds way less treasonous than AWOL. ;-)

Let the GOP break out their little rulers....let's have at it.

Julie

[ShadowCabinet]

27. A medical deferment is not "draft dodging".

Gov. Dean already explained that he appeared before the draft board with his medical records and was deemed not fit for service. End of story.

To refer to it as "draft dodging" is to buy into the current meme on Gov. Dean and is totally bogus.

[bearfartinthewoods]

17. i can see the ad now....something funded by soft money

vietnam combat footage..grainy black and white.

switch to saphire blue skys and pictures of skiers on virgin powder.

oh god.....

[pruner]

2. I thought the GOP wants Dean to win…

why are they attacking him?

:crazy:

[FrenchieCat]

5. and you....

The "draft-dodger" label may have little impact on Dr Dean's key
supporters - hard-core Democratic activists who thrill to his angrily anti-war, anti-Bush message. But it will raise fresh fears among members of the Democratic Party's national establishment, who fear that the former governor of Vermont would be ballot box poison in a national election

[pruner]

7. the Dem Party's national establishment has plenty of reason to fear…

for their jobs.

[FrenchieCat]

8. No, they just want

to win this one, is all. Just because you can't see the weaknesses in Dr. Dean......in running against Bush.

[KittyWampus]

19. Dean's "Weakness" Will Probably Become More Apparent

and other candidates "Strenths" will also become more apparent as time goes on...

I don't think you will convince anyone here on DU or get them to cross over.

It has to be an interenal process encouraged by one's own personal observations...

Just my own opinion :)

[boilerbabe]

3. That's pretty wild!

I have been a volunteer on Howard Dean's campaign for a few months and always heard that it was an unadvoidable injury or condition. I have noted the link and will send it on to my fellow Deanies...

The more I think about it, the more I think I would have done whatever I could have to get out of being drafted had I been old enough at the time. It's the fact that the ones that did manage to sidestep this process and did not admit it whilst draping the cloak of patriotism on themselves that really aggravates me. Also the fact that so many of our guys couldn't avoid the draft. This country is really in a sorry state right now.

Thanks so much for providing this link...I am now signed up for the Telegraph, which along with the Guardian will probably give me a good British perspective on things!

XXXOOO
the Boilerbabe

[FrenchieCat]

6. Did you read this part?

Like many Vietnam-era children of the wealthy or well-connected, the young Mr Bush managed to jump long waiting lists and secure a coveted slot in the Texas Air National Guard, a unit that was extremely unlikely to be deployed overseas.

He landed the post after the lieutenant governor of Texas recommended him, at the request of a family friend. Mr Bush is also accused of simply skipping his last year of service, after moving to Alabama - a charge he denies.

To supporters of Sen Kerry and Gen Clark, Mr Bush's embarrassment on this subject is all the more reason to shun Dr Dean, and select a candidate who can tackle the president head-to-head on national security.

To Mr Bush's strategists, little matters more than preserving Mr Bush's approval ratings on national security from Democratic attacks.

same article: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/11/24/wdean24.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/11/24/ixnewstop.html

[dean4america]

11. trust the Guardian, not the Telegraph

The Daily Telegraph is euphemistically referred to as the Daily Torie by many Britons for its conservative (Torie Party) leanings.

[fabius]

9. I have the perfect strategy for Dean...

...in a debate with Bush,

"OK, George, let's talk about our military careers together. All the details."

[FrenchieCat]

10. Military service....

Bush will say, I was in the National Guard...but that's not even the issue Dr. Dean, the issue is one of national security and Foreign policy...now let's talk about that experience. Now you can easily notice that we have not been attacked since 9/11 here at home. What experience do you have that makes you qualify to take over the war on terror?

[Larkspur]

15. What experience do you have that makes you qualify to take over the war...

on terror, Dr. Dean?

Dean's reply: The experience of making sound decisions, building cohesive coalitions with our allies, and telling the truth, which you find is hell, Resident Bush.

[caledesi]

12. Very Good fab, let's talk about details. AWOL? hmm... nt

[KittyWampus]

20. So You Essentially Endorse A Candidate Who Can't Bring Up AWOL (Dean)

because of his own percieved lack of military service?

Neither can Dean say, "I've Got Foreign Policy Credentials & Don't Need To Rely On Staff Like Bush"

Shouldn't we look for a candidate who has MORE arrows to sling towards Junior not LESS.

[Hep]

22. But

Vietnam will no tbe the deciding factor. It won't even be among them.

[KittyWampus]

24. Who Said VietNam- I Said MILITARY SERVICE vs. AWOL

And Foreign Policy Credentials vs. Relying on Staff

Dean cannot use either of these arguments. His ammunition is severly limited.

[T_i_B]

13. I think this paragraph says it all

The Republican Party - which lambasted President Bill Clinton for his machinations to avoid military service - may be less harsh on Dr Dean than his Democrat colleagues. Republican talk of draft-dodging is likely to be muted by a reluctance to open the Pandora's Box of Mr Bush's own military record.

[Octafish]

18. Yes. Karl Rove won't go there.

Ask Jim Hatfield about Bush and the cocaine arrest in Houston.

Oh yeah, we can't ask him.

[KittyWampus]

21. So The Ideal Candidate SHOULD ACTUALLY HAVE SERVED

So that he can bring up AWOL effectively...

The less ideal candidate is one who did NOT serve because he automatically loses an arrow in his quiver.

Dean also has no Foreign Policy Credentials and thus can't lambast Junior for needing to rely on staff.e

This Dean has TWO arrows deducted from his quiver.

[RogueTrooper]

26. Are you playing the Republican's game

You are allowing the Republicans to define us.

[KittyWampus]

28. No, Just Acknowledging Various Arrows That Can Penetrate Bush

Clark- having served in the military- has an arrow that some other Dem candidates don't have.

Clark- having served as High Commander- has another arrow that some other candidates don't have... foreign policy.

Clark- whose records are open- has another arrow which some Dem Candidates don't have.... Junior's sealed records.

[killbotfactory]

16. Hmm...

Should Dean have hidden his medical records to serve in a war he didn't believe in?

No.

Nobody cares.

[iverglas]

23. just a clarification

There was general agreement in an earlier thread (that was locked when I saw it) that the Telegraph is a Murdoch paper.

It ain't. It's a Conrad Black paper. Like the National Post in Canada (and half of Canada's dailies) was until recently, and the Sun-Times in Chicago and the Jerusalem Post still are. Conrad is in that spot of bother this week about alleged dastardly deeds with company money and property, many will recall. He is the rightest of the dishonest, corrupt right wing. And if he knew I'd said that, he'd sue me; he was the master of using libel chill to muzzle the press before he became a press baron.

I'm not commenting on the article itself, or saying that nothing that Lord Black of Crossharbour says is ever true. I'd check the sky to see what colour it was, before I took his word that it was blue, however. I've seen examples of completely dishonest journalism (reporting, not opinion) in his papers, including the Telegraph, in the past.

And I wouldn't be buying a used opinion from him or his minions, either.



(Wish I could show you the pic of him and his charming wife Barbara Amiel dressed up for a costume party ... Konrad as Cardinal Richelieu, him being an RC convert and pal of the pope's and all, and Babs as Marie Antoinette, a fitting get-up for the woman who wanted to title her autobiography Fascist Bitch -- I didn't say it! -- and now devotes herself to the care and wearing of her extensive expensive wardrobe, which she acquired by making judicious marriages once she'd had that nasty little abortion that was of course wrong and that no other women should be allowed to have, in between writing columns for hubby's publications and redecorating the Challenger and entertaining the rich and famous ... but it doesn't seem to be on line.)

.

[Nicholas_J]

25. Depends

If the medical condition was exagerated, and the doctor just gave the deferment becaue he knew Dean was a rich kid who's daddy could spend a lot of money on lawyers to try to get the deferment and the doctor just deferred him to avoid the expense to the military, then Dean was a draft dodger who got away with it.

Exafggerating a medical condition for the purposes of avoiding the draft is by definition "draft dodging".

Finally an grudging admission that the story wasnt the "My Country told me to come back when I was needed" bullshit he was trying to sling when the story first came out.

I bet someone has their hands on the microfiled medical files (the paper copy is destroyed after 20 years, but filmed, and now digitized at that point), and Dean has been mad aware of it.