we've got to get mean.

[ulysses]

Remember the Lord of the Rings scene when the cave troll has the good guys trapped and elfin Legolas goes tripping merrily along the troll's back, shooting arrow after arrow at the beast without much effect?

Guess who's the cave troll in American politics. Guess who's the elf.

Elves, on the other hand, are noble, elegant, magical beings whose time is running out and who seem to possess a bittersweet sense that they are now about to pass into myth.

http://www.lordoftherings.net/index_cast.html

Sound familiar?

In LOTR, of course, the troll is defeated just in the nick of time. It's not so in out world, and as long as the left remains these sort of wan creatures above the fray, it won't become so. I suspect that most of us would rather retain some kind of civility in our politics, but I don't think we can afford that luxury.

We have to get mean, and by that I mean not just hitting back, but hitting first and hitting first often. Any thoughts on becoming our own cave trolls?

[GOPisEvil]

1. I've said for a long time that the best defense is a good offense.

We are reacting, and we need to be setting the tone. We've allowed the debate to take place on Republican turf, we need to get it back on ours. The problem is the media is so right-wing that they control the subject matter for debate in too many cases.

So, I suggest we use letters to the editor, guest columnist opportunities with local newspapers and public affairs spots on radio (maybe 2 people will listen, but they might have a friend...).

[ulysses]

3. We need to be everywhere

and merciless about it.

[calimary]

33. We need to start spreading some new memes - like republi-CONS

and Red-Ink-Republicans and republi-CONMEN and republi-CON-ARTISTS and cheap-labor conservatives and Charge-and-Spend-Republicans.

We need stuff like this to roll off the tongue as easily and frequently as those schmucks derisively say "the Democrat Party."

They're having a great time because nobody and I mean NOBODY is hitting back. It's BEYOND high time that changed.

We need to slither stuff like this into the national mind-set. Soon, it will spread on its own, but WE have to get it jump-started.

So here's some suggestions:

1) WHEN (not IF, WHEN) you write or email some columnist or reporter or editorial board or whoever, slip one or two of them in. Make this a habit - EVERY TIME. I wrote to one Canadian reporter about an excellent article she'd produced. I made reference to "The Silenced Majority" to describe the many many legions of us critics of this "So-Called Administration" (there's another one) who've been forcibly silenced and marginalized. She picked up on that in her response and said that it was a good one. AHA! Perhaps she'll be likely to use it, herself, then.

2) If ever you get through on somebody's talk show, MAKE DAMNED SURE you repeat one or more of those several times. Further planting seeds and then giving them water and nutrients. Same is true if you email some TV show, on the chance it might get used on the air.

3) Use that terminology with friends and "watercooler" pals at the office. Just casually, BUT RELENTLESSLY!

4) WHEN (not if) you call your congresscritter (TOLL FREE TO CAPITOL HILL: 1 800 839 - 5276 - you KNEW I was gonna sneak that one in again, too, 'eh?), use these when you speak to Democratic office staffers. Encourage them to spread it, too. I started using "when bush lied, people died" or "bush lied and soldiers died" and a couple of 'em remarked specifically on that and said they liked it. WHILE YOU'RE AT IT, encourage them to start using this, too. Encourage them to suggest it to their bosses. Tell them it's the new rage where you live (keep it up enough and it's very likely to be!).

The objective is to plant these as seeds as far and wide as though you were Johnny Appleseed. Do it repeatedly yet casually in conversation and in writing. If enough of us do it, and spread the word, and maybe drop hints to Democrats.com and Buzzflash and some other friendly folk, perhaps takebackthemedia.com and such, it'll start spreading. Folks like Guy James and Randi Rhodes and Mike Malloy should be doing this, too. Suggestion needs to get to them as well. The objective here is to influence the national dialogue and the national consciousness and implant - or let's use the lexicon - "embed" this stuff in people's minds so it just starts automatically popping into their heads. Soon enough, the average Joe will start hearing this, and subconsciously connecting the concept of "Charge and Spend" or "republi-CONS" whether he/she wants to or not. It'll just pop in there, the same as the shamelessly-pounded-into-the-ground memes about liberals being so bad.

FOLKS, YOU CAN BET THERE ARE WRITTEN AND EMAILED MARCHING ORDERS AND TALKING POINTS ISSUED FAR AND WIDE BY THE LIKES OF KKKARL ROVE AND RALPH REED AND ROGER AILES AT THE FAUX NETWORK EXHORTING PEOPLE TO DO JUST THAT. YOU CAN BET THAT EVERY TALKING HEAD, EVERY REPUBLI-CON OFFICE STAFFER EVERYWHERE, EVERY RIGHT-WING THINK-TANKER, EVERYBODY EVERYWHERE IN THE BAD-GUY CAMP IS GETTING THESE ADVISORIES. NEWT GINGRICH YEARS AGO ACTUALLY DID IT, ISSUING LISTS OF WORDS TO USE WHEN DESCRIBING DEMS AND REPUBLI-CONS. WE NEED TO DO LIKEWISE, ONLY BETTER AND MORE HONEST.

Don't mean to shout, but then again, actually, YES I DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Guys, my dad was very successful as a salesman. He was a specialist in stuff like this, and it worked-worked-worked. I grew up watching this and seeing it work, repeatedly, with my own eyes. PLEASE DO IT!!!!!!

[Vitruvius]

35. "It's hard for them to hit you if you've got your fist in their face"

-- James Carville

[Zolok]

2. Fine sentiments but...

look around you, getting "mean" on the DU is simply another word for piling on John Kerry or Dick Gephardt or Joe Lieberman...no the only thing liberals are good for is cutting up other liberals.
It's been my oft state thesis that conservatism is dying in this country, and it is, but that doesn't mean the left is anywhere near ready or positioned to assume power.
Sorry....but please get as mean as possible....don't let me stop you.
I'll even start the mean-ness up, what was Neal Bush doing buying sex in Thailand, the child prostitute capital of Asia???
Something odd going on here....

www.chimesatmidnight.blogspot.com

[ulysses]

5. it *is* primary season, after all

There are a lot of issues that need addressing in the Democratic Party, but when I say "we" I mean the left in general, not the DP particularly. I'm not even talking to Zell Miller Dems.

I wouldn't stress overly much about the candidate wars.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

4. I see it as the Battle for Helm's Deep myself

Seriously. I was watching "The Two Towers" once and it occured to me that Saruman is basically Dick Cheney, and that the hopelessly under-manned people in Helm's Deep represented the Democratic party faithful. I'm not sure who the Elves represent, but we could sure use some reinforements.

[ulysses]

6. well sure.

but we could sure use some reinforements.

I don't mean that we should ditch the elves by any means, just that a cave troll (or nine) would be nice. :)

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

10. I didn't think you meant that

and besides, we also need the Ents and the riders of Rohan.

[Touchdown]

12. Trolls are too busy opening the black gates...

of Mordor. I see the trolls as a Sam Nunn, Zell Miller type...attacking the party as opposed to the enemy. Bringing Gondor (Clark fans), Rohan (Deanies), Fangorn (Kerryers), The Woodland Realm (moderate Dems/non-voters), and The Shire (Kucinich-babies) together is what we need. That's what drove the Uruks back from Helm's Deep, not dumb cave trolls.

Or maybe, I should be reading other books, and watching other movies.:crazy:

[NewJeffCT]

19. no, Miller

Zell Miller is like Grima Wormtongue and Jeb Bush is Sarumen... Sauron is Karl Rove/Dick Cheney, Bush is the Mouth of Sauron. The Uruk-hai are the religious right, while the cave trolls are Faux News personalities... The Nazgul are Rummy, Wolfowitz, Condi and the other top neo-cons.

We just need to find our Aragorn, Faramir and Eowyn.

[NewJeffCT]

42. and the regular orcs...

Not the Uruk-Hai, are the old school conservatives out there - not as strong, mean and vicious as the RR, but still a force to be reckoned with.

[ulysses]

21. what about *bright* cave trolls, then?

:)

[Touchdown]

23. How many times have you watched the movies?

Does a "bright" cave troll exist?

[ulysses]

24. LOL - edited

I'm taking more than a little creative license with the characters. It's my metaphor, dammit! :D

Actually, scratch the thing about bright trolls. I wouldn't suggest that we get dumb across the board, but we're being undermined by wingnuts who have no problem whatsoever getting down into the slime and dumbing down their message where appropriate. So, maybe not a bright troll, but a leftist one at any rate...

[Screaming Lord Byron]

7. Clearly the Elves are Canadians. I'd have thought that was obvious.

irony ends.

[NewJeffCT]

22. elves

Elves are tree-hugging environmentalists... dwarves are blue-collar union types.

[mrgorth]

13. I agree 100%

I see so many parallels between these times and LotR it's rediculous.

[buddhamama]

8. hmm...

i haven't seen the movie but i think i suggested something similar in a thread of yours last week.

no more nice democrats and leftists.

goodness knows we have plenty of material to work with.

[ulysses]

11. true enough.

And when we've exhausted the material we have now, we need to dig for more. :)

:hi:

[buddhamama]

16. we have the advantage there

digging for info, the left is very good at that! what we need to do is surprise the media with our meaness so they'll print/talk about what we're saying. as long as we have the 'facts' to back us up, and not just the opinion pieces that the right relies on so very much...

we can kick butt! :-)

[ulysses]

17. and when they do talk about it

(as they have done a little lately) we need to not shy away when the cons start whining about how mean we are, but rather point out that they started it.

[buddhamama]

18. exactly, ulysses!

when you're fighting for the greater good as we are there's nothing to be ashamed of. by backing down we weak, and give the impression 'it' isn't worth the fight.

[CWebster]

9. What gets obscured in ABB

is that we could lose our own party. And then what good will it serve to "gain the world and lose our soul"? We will still be extinct, if you catch my drift.

[ulysses]

14. right.

While getting rid of Bush is necessary, the ABB trip basically says that ideas and goals don't matter. They very much DO matter.

The enemy isn't Bush or even Republicans. The enemy is conservatism, neoconservatism in particular.

[opihimoimoi]

15. Us Elves need to join forces

Only by coming together into one large group will we get respect.

Other than that, they will continue to laugh at us as does Hannity, Scarborough and the rest.

Come, we make luau, we eat, sing, laugh, smile, drink.

[JanMichael]

20. Agree 100% that we need to get mean.

The LOTR comparison is a good one I suppose and others have pointed out that the elves did pretty much save the day.

I suppose the "Above the Fray" connection and the looming irrelevance of the Elves is true too. I see it as I see Liberalism/Populism in the Early 20th as compared to the last third of the 20th. The first decades were populated with harder than nails Leftists that helped us move somewhat forward in terms of how Labor was treated. These people were not ones to back down.

Then we really did win some change with FDR and Johnson. Sadly after that we started loosing focus and got soft.

[buddhamama]

27. on getting soft...

i agree with you that we became soft but i also think that the condition of our Nation as it stands now makes it possible to reach the softer citizens. during the FDR and LBJ administration people were disillusioned,scared and angry.

there are far more citizens feeling this way today than any poll can determine. we have to get the plain spoken message out and gather strength in numbers.

[Ruby Romaine]

25. Where is Dick Tuck? We need someone like him.

He went after Tricky in the 60's- He was great.
http://www.sniggle.net/tuck.php
Get em with humor!

[CWebster]

26. Krugman on it

http://www.iht.com/articles/119020.html

[ulysses]

29. good piece.

Thanks.

[leftofthedial]

28. a key will be to make "neoconservative" and "conservative" bad words

The RW's attack agenda was:

1. Lavishly fund a large number of right-wing think tanks, creating the false perception that there is an intellectual movement behind their agenda, when in reality, it is all part of a propaganda war.

2. Get access to the airwaves for unadulterated presentation of the extremist RW propaganda message promulgated by the think tanks. Lavishly invest in building RW media monopolies.

3. Ruthlessly and systematically demonize the left. Use Gingrich's list of negative words whenever describing your opponents or their positions. The left should make "conservative" a vilified epithet, just as the right did with "liberal." NEVER praise the opposition or their positions. They and their positions are 100% unamerican, vile, evil, traitorous demons.

4. (And this is the hard one for the left to pull off.) Find a lowest common denominator constituency, allow them a forum to vent their basest instincts (usually hatred of "them," whichever marginalized group "them" is at the moment; welfare recipients, immigrants, homosexuals and intellectuals work well). Ruthlessly and systematically link the left with these "enemies." Provide this base with soundbite sixed koan-like nuggets of disinformation that sound good and can replace rational discourse. Examples include, "I'd rather let the American people decide how to spend their own money" (used in place of rational discussion about anything related to taxes), and "I favor small government" (used to hide the fact that government, the cost of government, and government obtrusiveness increase dramatically under RW administrations).

5. Cultivate symbolic leaders for your movement (like Reagan or Bush II). Ensure through whatever coercion is necessary that ALL liberals, even political rivals, universally speak of these symbolic leaders in reverential, even worshipful, tones. Create a cult of personality built around your leadership.

6. Be willing, even eager, to lie, cheat, shout down your opponents, coerce, or even resort to implicit or explicit violence in order to accomplish the above.

[ulysses]

30. re: #4

Fear and demonization of "the other" won't work for the left if that other is a group of people organized by ethnicity, sexual preference, etc. I think it can work as a class issue, and not even so much a "soak the rich" strategy as one based on the issue of corporate power. We've been triangulated for years - we need to do it right back at them and pry apart the corporatist/fundamentalist alliance.

[JackRiddler]

43. kick

just glad to see such a discussion!

[leftofthedial]

46. trying to reunite the working and middle classes

against the wealthy and corporatist overlords represented by the GOP would be our take on it.

I don't see how we appeal to the troglodytes the GOP coopted with Rush et al without becoming the thing we abhor.

Trouble is, economic self interest, as compeeling as it seems that would be, is a much tougher sell than class or ethnic or racial or religious or gender hatred.

[ulysses]

31. oh, and #5

5. Cultivate symbolic leaders for your movement (like Reagan or Bush II). Ensure through whatever coercion is necessary that ALL liberals, even political rivals, universally speak of these symbolic leaders in reverential, even worshipful, tones. Create a cult of personality built around your leadership.

I suspect that the coercion necessary is simply the inclusion of all factions under the tent. Beyond that, cults of personality worry me some, if only because they don't last very long. Even Bill Clinton could only occupy the office for eight years.

[leftofthedial]

32. The right has milked Ronald Reagan for a generation

and it won't stop when he dies.

Clinton's "cult" was based on his effectiveness as President, pretty much while President. He has not been embraced globally as a symbol of liberals in the way neocons have sainted Reagan even before his death.

[NewJeffCT]

34. Clinton

Clinton is not really that liberal if you think about it

[ulysses]

38. right

If we have to deify someone, let's at least get someone a little more representative of the left.

[Touchdown]

44. We could resurrect Roosevelt. Either of them.

With FDR, the right is in full swing, trying to rewrite history, to show FDR as a failure. It isn't working very well. With TR, it gets even better, because we can say the original Republican values that TR stood for have been abandoned by a neo-con, social darwinist agenda, and a bunch of wing-nut crazies.

BTW: "wingnut" bears no resemblance to the production company that made the 3 LOTR films.;-)

[leftofthedial]

51. we need someone more contemporary

a movie star perhaps


they don't need to have any actual political substance. Hell, Reagan was a vegetable for half of his reign.

[buddhamama]

39. you're right ,Clintion is not that liberal

but he has come to represent something to all liberals, the battle between left and right or DEMs and Republicans.

i don't anyone else but i am a believer in the vast right-wing conspiracy.

[Terwilliger]

36. kick

[ulysses]

37. thanks, Ter

:hi:

[Terwilliger]

40. I agree but I don't see it

you can't herd the left into anything resembling unity...maybe everyone will pick-up on the idea that meanness needs to be employed in political discourse, but I don't know many Democrats who would do it

[ulysses]

41. that's true

but I'm not sure how much unity would really be needed to effectively fight the right. We need to come at them from all points, so maybe decentralization is better anyway. Existing interest orgs, where there's already at least some unity, could work separately or independently - I think it'd still be effective, as long as the cons are the target.

[ACK]

45. More than mean -- we need to re-frame the language of debate

The Dems have to reclaim the language landscape in terms of debate. Our own catch phrases for attack which liberals have traditionally avoided have to be created.

For example, the (borrow and spend) republicans are putting this country into a (hole of debt). All catch phrases are in parentheses.

We have to talk in terms of the (radical) Republicans and their (extreme) views. Clinton was great at this.

We have to talk about the (giveaways to the rich) in terms of the tax policies.

We have to bring traditional catch phrases like (corporate welfare) into the mainstream.

We have to talk about giving a (hand up) to the (working poor) <-- a great catch phrases that has gotten into the political vocabulary by the way.

We need to talk about the way * has used (smoke screens) for cover and (double-speak) to push his polluter agendas into environmental policy.

We need to bring out the big guns and take this language into the media in all forms.

Franken is a great person for this though Moore,who I like, is probably seen as too far out there for some I think Molly Ivans rocks hard.

We have start talking less in the old language of liberalism and find a new progressive but populist voice of hope for the future. You have to speak in a voice that the public can not only understand but cannot even begin to ignore.

I see it getting worse before it gets better. The conservatives have been re-framing the use of words in politics since before Reagan. Yet, it was only the Republican Revolution into today before people started taking that nonsense as truth because that is what they were fed for political discourse for so long. It takes time for the message to get through and flexibility in finding different forms of media and organization to get the message out.

Very importantly, we have to stop the circular firing squads we see on even this board.

That is all. Yes, we have to get very mean.

[NewJeffCT]

47. Good post

We definitely need to re-frame the debate. Republicans have been setting the agenda of the debate for 25 years now. And in the past 10-12 years with the ascendance of talk radio and Murdoch/Scaife/Moon/etc media conglomerate, it's gotten much worse...

[ulysses]

48. that's a big part of what I mean

I'm not sure I'm ready to discard "the old language of liberalism", but then I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that and I agree totally that we have to have a strong, positive, populist message. We just need to be willing to go negative too and not wait until we're kicked first.

[ACK]

49. not discard the old language but re-frame it

Into catchphrase friendly progressive/populist language tailor-made for the campaign trail. Conservatives do NOT talk like William F. Buckley on the campaign trail. We do NOT need to abandon the old language to re-make it from the ground up.

Notice the words in parantheses. They are all bash terms of Repuke philosophy.

We have to fashion a positive voice that still repudiates the Republican message in a strong vicious way.

Listen to some repub candidate speeches if you have the stomach for it. They sound "positive" while still bashing liberals and coding race baiting into the message at the same time.

We can re-frame the language of politics in the country.

The country is divided but if we do not get our shit together the division will widen in their favor so the opinions start the match the gulf of representation. We cannot let this happen.

It is time to take to all forms of media a new voice for a new age.

[ulysses]

50. gotcha - I misunderstood your point about that.

:thumbsup: All entirely agreed.