In light of Tommy Franks' words lately, and the mention of military rule,

[madfloridian]

I am not sure I want a military man in the White House who so recently praised this administration so profusely. Two of his business ties with security corporations worry me as well. I won't go into detail as it has been covered enough. Entrust is one. His lobbying for Axciom and the CAPPS II issue, and the recent FBI wins to get more power are just overwhelming to me right now.

I am very nervous about what is going on now. It is not the fear of someone who is naive and simplistic in thinking, as many here accuse us of being. It is the fear that we have expressed here over and over at DU for a long time.

Last night at a Democratic meeting in our area, a member of Sen. Nelson's staff spoke. He was previously employed by FEMA. Someone spoke up and asked him about the military rule being put in place in the event of another attack. The person also asked if elections could be stopped.

The guy just had a word one answer...."Yes."

[teevee]

1. hi.

quit being so paranoid!

There's no vast military conspiracy.
Clark praised our leaders just as 80% of us did after 3,000 people died on 9/11. It's called "shock."

reality check

[madfloridian]

2. Ok, I will quit.

:hi:

Paranoid is a name I have never been called before.

[Darth_Ole]

3. I don't think we need to worry about a military man being in charge.

I mean, look at Eisenhower. He didn't run this country like some have charged Clark would. Eisenhower even warned of the military complex getting too much power.

That being said, I'm not too thrilled with the fact that he did support Bush so much in the early going. Just because everyone else loved him after 9/11 doesn't mean he had to also. But I'm sure his recent criticism of Bush stems from the fact that Bush has virtually given up in Afghanistan and in the hunt for Osama.

[madfloridian]

6. Eisenhower was long ago. Today is different.

Too much has happened too fast.

The way this party is attacking each other here is pretty obvious. It is getting out of control here with new folks going after Dean supporters. There has to be something behind it.

One forum I used to go to is already to the point where supporters of other candidates are leaving.

I am concerned.

[cosmicdot]

7. times have changed ... Ike was then, this is now

comparing Ike to current BFEE conditions only deflects from the big picture ... and, surely, it does add legitimacy to things ... that makes full-vetting more difficult to navigate ... it's too easy ...

Grant was a general, too ... corrupt administration, too

Ike was a do-nothing president as well

Yes, he talked about the military-industrial complex issue ... thank you Ike ... other than that ... 8 years waiting for a Kennedy to wake us up ...

I don't think it's fair to bring up Ike to justify current players ... especially fair to Gen. Eisenhower and his career

[madfloridian]

16. Cosmicdot, a quote from Kennedy 10 days before he died.....

It was telling us something our country was up to. I can't find it now. It was at Columbia, I think. I wondered what he meant by that. Have you saved that quote. I did a google, but it is not showing.

[cosmicdot]

4. glad I was part of the 20% - our numbers have grown

we already live within a police-state 'infrastructure' ... what'cha going to do if and when they come for you?

about 7 years ago, I received a copy the Farmville Herald newspaper ... Farmville is a quiet, small rural community SW of Richmond, VA ... where my grandfather came from ... I thought it very strange and unnecessary seeing a photo of the local county police in full-riot gear with helmets and shields going through some sort of training exercise ... it's everwhere

it'll happen so fast, our heads will swim ... all in the name of "security" ...

The guy just had a word one answer...."Yes."

anyone who doesn't think the coup is over or that this cabal won't take further steps is kidding themselves or is living by some blind faith

... and, they cover their base on both side of the Party fence ...

these people WILL NOT cower ... they WILL NOT go to prison for treason or such ...

[madfloridian]

8. Here is "now". What a police state looks like.

From the Miami protests.
I am tired of such images.
I am tired of hearing about the military.
I am tired of people here making fun of supporters of other candidates.

I do NOT like that Clark was lobbying for the company which is implementing CAPPS II, part of the TIA that survived.

I am uncomfortable with the use by his supporters of attack tactics here. It is too much like the GOP tactics.

The man last night just said "Yes." That was all he had to say to bring a chill in the room.

On Edit: Before someone says police and military are different, before someone jumps on it. I say, Oh really? Looks like the same to me.

But then, I am just paranoid. So was the man who asked the question last night.

[teevee]

9. oh yeah!

sorry, you're right. I'm really part of a vast republican conspiracy to take over the country completely and rule with an iron military fist.

no, wait....I worked like a dog for Ben Chandler's Ky Gubernatorial campaign and I work in a non-profit dedicated to helping people with disabilities.

oh yeah, I also support decriminalization of most drugs and support a woman's right to choose.

you're being completely paranoid, and if you've never been called that before, then maybe it's because you've never came out and said something so completely wacko as "Clark's here as a plot to take over my house with the U.S. tanks."

c'mon! think about what you're saying before you say it!

Lee Harvey Oswald did it by himself.

Conspiracy theories are fun and scary, but never true. one person can keep a secret. that's as far as it goes.

***edited to add "Who are THESE PEOPLE you're talking about?"

[madfloridian]

10. You just misquoted me. Shame on you. That is dead wrong.

That is exactly what I was talking about. You made my point for me about attacking each other.

[adriennel]

5. is following orders good outside the military?

I used to have respect for Colin Powell, successful military man, now a complete patsy in the Bush Administration. He has delivered reports and speeches that are not factual, which he may have known. When he speaks on behalf of the Bush Administration, his facial expression appears as if he has just sold his soul to the devil.

[madfloridian]

13. You are right about Powell. It is sad.

I think my problem now is that right is left, and up is down, and things are no longer as they seem. People I trusted I find are untrustworthy.

That is one reason I posted this. I don't understand all of this. I don't understand the hatred toward our candidates. I know a lot of Dean folks are leaving here, just like they did at another board which is now exclusively Clark, or almost.

It worries me a lot. Franks' statement worries me, and the man from Nelson'office, formerly of FEMA put a chill on the room.

Things are no longer as they seem. When a site gets so bad that people call us names, it is bad. I can either post what I think, or I can leave the anger behind.

For now, I am going to stay. I would avoid the bash threads, but that does not work either.

I posted about Medicare for awhile but now it drops. I posted Jeb stuff, no one cares. I know a lot about Jeb, and he does not like me. But it is more important to hurt each other. My threads and others' threads on important topics just drop.

11. I share your concern

This was my initial take on things also.

I think this country has always been too enamored with the military.
That said, I don't know if Clark is worrisome on that account.
I'm still a Dean supporter, although I do think Clark has been showing some grit with his recent statements.
Yet they don't strike me as being that unique, particularly in considering that others say similar things. What makes his statements unique is the source.

I picked up the impression that Franks and Clark don't get along, so the fact that Franks says the kinds of things he does should not be a reflection on Clark.

[madfloridian]

12. I am concerned about the military part.

I find myself liking Clark's personality. I also find myself wondering why he was declared a star of the Democratic Party when he was not even a member.

It is the military part, it is the verocity of the attacks here, it is the ugliness that is coming out that worries me.

14. from a Dean supporter vantage point

I'd say he was declared a star of the Democratic Party because "some people" are really worried about Dean & not because of his alleged hypothetical unelectability. There are entrenched interests in the Democractic Party too.

[madfloridian]

15. Agreed. Too many everywhere. Article.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A7380-2003Sep26¬Found=true

SNIP..."Retired Gen. Wesley K. Clark helped an Arkansas information company win a contract to assist development of an airline passenger screening system, one of the largest surveillance programs ever devised by the government.

Starting just after the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks, Clark sought out dozens of government and industry officials on behalf of Acxiom Corp., a data powerhouse that maintains names, addresses and a wide array of personal details about nearly every adult in the United States and their households, according to interviews and documents.

....."Clark's consulting role at Acxiom puts him near the center of a national debate over expanded government authority to use personal data and surveillance technology to fight the war on terrorism and protect homeland security....."

...."As a consultant, he helped the company win a government contract worth an undisclosed amount to provide data and consulting services to the CAPPS II program. CAPPS II is the second-generation computer-assisted passenger screening system, a network that Transportation Secretary Norman Y. Mineta once described as "the foundation" on which all other, far more public aviation security measures depend....."

If he does not agree with these privacy violations, then why did he help his company win a government contract to pursue them?