I believe military dissent is essential in breaking a Republican South.

[ozymandius]

The South boasts a long, proud military tradition. So much is the case that God and Guns has become sunonymous with Republican identity among the crowd that Dean (clumsily) referred to as those with "confederate flags on their pickup trucks". Lo and behold, Dean is right on target with his sentiment. Republicans have been screwing this sterotypical demographic for decades with political sloganeering with viceral appeal. I do not think that Dean or anyone else will parley these ambitions into real meat-and-potatoes Southern political action.

Not, at least, without some help.

I would ask any veteran here at DU for some help in describing how Bush's policies of screwing veterans are taking root in real life. It is one thing to hear about dramatic "what ifs" but the point hits home more effectively if veterans (perhaps someone affected by six veterans hospitals being closed) were to speak up. Is there a Zell Miller fan anywhere who would argue with a veteran pounding his fist on the table as he denounces Bush's chickenshit policies toward the people who actually do the work in the military?

If that stream of outrage were tapped, it would well improve our fortunes in relieving the Republican party's abusive hold over Southern voters.

[sasquatch]

1. The Pigman will denounce it as "Treason"

Then the southern sheep will reply "BAAH BAAH BAAH". That's why that won't really work in the South.

[mlawson]

2. Its not the military here; it's the Baptists, and

other fundie groups. They ALL vote, they do as they are told in church. I used to know several of these people when I lived in East TN -- you might as well argue with a stump!!!!

"Now, Pastor ______ says we can't vote for Clinton, and be good Christians!!" I heard it any times.

[ozymandius]

3. What gets a pastor's attention?

Besides his own niacin-defficiency induced voice of God...

What effect would a soldier, any soldier, have on the political motivations of a preacher?

[mlawson]

4. I dunno.

That is a good point: why are they all repukes??? Is it that the congregations only elect RW pastors, having already been sufficiently brainwashed?? That would be my guess; I do not think like these people, so it's hard for me to interpret their motives. Military impact?? That isn't a lot of what they are about.

Many pastors do, BTW, earn excellent salaries and numerous other perks. With huge congregations, they live QUITE well.

[Wapsie B]

5. What would get a fundy minister's attention?

Threaten his church's tax-exempt status if he continues to cross the line between Church & State.

[democratreformed]

8. Listen up b/c this is true

Down here, we are overrun with religious crap. Pastors even tell their congregation which radio station to listen to. I live close to one town that is basically run by one religious group. If that group doesn't want something to happen (i.e. Target coming in to compete with Wally World), it will NOT happen. Hasn't happened yet. Won't happen.

[Silverhair]

6. Nobody would listen. The problem is that Democrats have

a well establish tradition of hostility toward the military and military spending. They may get mad at Bush, but they won't trust the Democrats on military matters.

[Silverhair]

7. Nobody would listen. The problem is that Democrats

have a well established tradition of hostility towards the military and military spending and military matters. They simply will not trust the Democrats with the military. They may get mad at Bush about veterans matters, but they will believe that they would be even worse off with Democrats.

Accidental duplicate post. Regret the error. I have asked the mods to delete it.

[blm]

9. Max Cleland is touring Veterans groups around the country doing exactly

what you are suggesting.

He's heading Veterans for Kerry and speaking with every vet group about what Bush has done not only to vets but to current military and their families. He also brings up Bush's absence during his national guard service.

Kerry and Clark can break the stranglehold. Gen. Cheney who commanded Parris Island Marine base spoke at a Kerry event in SC where he endorsed him. It's little things like that the media pays no attention to, but will add up and matter greatly in the general election.

[Ksec]

10. The south is bigotted

Why else would they have changed parties after the Civil Rights bill of 64? Why else would they NOT vote for a yankee? Imagine how we would be looked at up here if we refused to vote for a Southerner. I think this military crap is just a cover for the real reason , and thats racism. I think we should start making this an issue. Maybe if we put a mirror in front of their faces they wont like what they see. I sure as hell wouldnt.

[mlawson]

11. And, you have a Dem governor, and two Dem senators???

I live in the South and have one of each. Why don't you????

The South votes repuke for the reason I stated above in post #2. If what you say is true, then bush will lose all Southern states because he appointed Powell and Condaleeza Rice. But that is NOT going to happen.

[Ksec]

12. Ohio didnt change right after the Civil Rights bill

The south did. Im not about to back down from this. Its so obvious. And no Not All are bigots but theres enough to keep any Dem from winning a Pres election. How can you sit there and deny something so glaringly obvious?

[proud patriot]

13. I think you made excellent points

:thumbsup: