Dennis Kucinich's proposed Department of Peace

[Syrinx]

While I think that a Department of Peace is
a lovely-sounding idea, doesn't the proposal
accentuate the qualities of Kucinich that make
him seem to be a fringe candidate to so many
people? Doesn't it make a lot of people think,
rightly or wrongly, that he would be "soft" on
national defense? And besides, isn't peacemaking
supposed to be the job of the State Department?
Don't get me wrong, I admire Kucinich very much,
but don't proposals like this hurt him, rather than
help him, with the vast majority of American voters?

[MercutioATC]

1. I also don't think we need another Cabinet-level Department...

I understand what he's getting at, just as I understand the recent "Grandfather Twilight" and animal endorsement pages on his site. I DO think, however that he could better apeal to his supporters without appearing quite so....well....wonky.

Sometimes it's less WHAT you say than the WAY in which you say it...

[Fixated]

2. .....

Yeah, it's just too far-fetched and sounds like it would have no role.

I'm just waiting for a Department of Giving Everyone You See a Big Giant Hug.

[Zorra]

3. Dennis is an anomaly in American politics

he's honest. Quite a shock, huh?

He believes a Department of Peace is a good thing. He doesn't care what people think; he'll do what is right anyway.

His Department of Peace proposal covers a much wider range of issues then the State Department does. And the State Department obviously does not perform it's function correctly.

One thing I really like about DK -- he doesn't compromise his words or actions in order to conform to the beliefs of the ignorant. He was against the war, despite popular opinion, and he was right in his opposition, like he always is on issues.

In plain English, Dennis is not a full of shit ass kisser.

[Syrinx]

5. I agree that he seems honest

That doesn't mean he has to purposely stake out self-defeating positions.

You're correct, in my opinion, about the State Department not doing its job, but that is because of the belligerent bastard in the White House. State did a decent, though not necessarily great, job during the Clinton years.

[MuseRider]

4. Yup

peace is a horrible thing to campaign on! LOL, I am not dogging you just commenting. On his web site where you find the department of peace you will also find his stances on the war and his ideas for the defense of this country.

[Syrinx]

6. In a perfect world, someone like Dennis would be President

But you have to be elected before you can govern -- well, usually. ;)

[MuseRider]

7. We are working on it!

If not now the seeds have been planted and there is more support out there than I imagined. I vote for now, for peace and reaching for that perfect world.

[Zomby Woof]

8. America isn't grown up enough

Peace comes from a position of strength. Strength of will and character. As long as bellicose soldier-sniffing Americans keep buying into the phony machismo mythos of war, they will continue to deride peace at their own peril. Keep the coffins coming America, and wave your little flags.

John Kennedy created a Peace Corps, and nobody laughed. Why people deride the Kucinich idea can only be explained that America still needs to evolve, and so does the world, where wars are waged daily over every corner of humanity.

[LWolf]

32. Excellent observation.

And it grieves me.

IMO, one of the best ways to nurture the evolution of America would be to elect evolved leaders.

[rumguy]

9. A dept. of peace?

in this day and age? what the heck was Dennis smoking when he came up with that idea?

[JohnKleeb]

11. why not

Peace is a cause worth fighting for. BTW it was originally Washington's idea, I dare y'all to call him crazy.

[rumguy]

14. maybe it is a good idea

but coming from Kucinich it's just easy to write off...

[JohnKleeb]

15. Harkin also likes it

Sigh sorry you're just catching me in one of my moods if I seem grumpy or sad, that's why. I don't think it sounds silly coming from him. Sigh times where I wonder if America is meant for me at all.

[rumguy]

17. I've thought that to about America....

is it really the best place for me, etc? In the end, I always say that no other country is as beautiful as America, more diverse, and with so much potential. It's like what Leonard Cohen said in his song Democracy - "America, the cradle of the best and the worst." But I don't thnk Dennis not doing good is the fault of America...it's his own lack of presentation and persuasion skills.

[JohnKleeb]

20. I get that feeling at times, comes and go

Actually I am told more often than not that the reason he can't win is that hes too left.

[Zorra]

25. Yes, Americans like their actors, don't they?

Presentation and persuasion.

RW media sure has made Americans stupid. Image is everything, substance means nothing.

[rumguy]

26. there's substance in how you go about

explaining things...not all actors have it either...it's about getting people to open their minds to what you are saying...Kucinich, a great guy, and really smart, from what I've seen doesn't seem to have that skill in the amount it takes to win the presidency...regardless of his views...

[Syrinx]

16. someone called Washington the most corrupt president ever

Here the other night. I don't remember who, but they had a "high post count."

[JohnKleeb]

19. The point being?

This had nothing to with Washington's presidency, had to with his will. So Washington because so and so said he was the most corrupt ever had no good ideas any one who follows on those ideas is boom a nutcase. Personally you dont know how damned sick I am of war really, sick of it, I can't be drafted but damnit just damnit. Sorry if I seem to be acting pyschotic but I don't care, this is a good idea, and if anyone wants to make war archaic, gimme a call ;).

[Syrinx]

21. I want to make war archaic too

I just think we have to take the White House desperately! Your best chance to avoid being drafted is to send a Democrat to the White House!!! By any means necessary! :)

I'm basically on your side, John. Maybe a bit more pragmatic, that's all.

[JohnKleeb]

22. I know that

I understand. Sorry there's something wrong with me :( especially these last few nights.

[dweller]

10. Isn't there a

Michael Jackson Kobe Bryant Peterson Murder in the East or West Coast
Rebounding Economy Jobs For Everyone Stay the Course Bring 'Em on
Iraq thread somewhere else that you want to look at instead of Peace
available?

no, as a single voter in the 'vast majority of American voters'
Peace is a forefront.

the rest is 'fringe'

dp

[Syrinx]

18. ???

What the hell does Kobe Jackson Michael Peterson have to do with anything I posted?

:shrug:

[dweller]

27. Your post about what most people think?

You are assuming they think?
and if they did, about something so remotely important as, i dunno, a Dept. of Peace?

and gosh, that martian candidate, Kucin, Kucinini, whatever, the 'fringe' guy...the one 'soft' on defense, with 'lovely ideas'...can we 'accentuate' 'rightly or wrongly' also?

sorry, my bad. I thot i was in the lounge and speaking at the yak.

for real?
you guys have a stench of fear that wafts off your posts. It's easy after a short while to just feel it from the headline.
If or when you want to discuss issues, there are many articulate posters here that will take you on, i for one have just checked in again to see you waffle and dance, and kick a little of the dirt back.

So as a serious response to your 'original post' (and i write that with every bit of honesty that i can muster) and to the one i am responding to,
what the hell did you expect your post to achieve?
changing a mind ?
or just another lame mind game?
Just what did your post have to do with anything? You have a problem with a Dept of Peace? Say so, don' t beg for and demean at the same time someone else who may agree or disagree with you.

dp

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[On the Road]

12. Yes, It Does Make Him SOUND Fringe

Having said that, the more I think about it, the more I think a Department of Peace would be a good idea.

Function follows organization. Achievements follow goals. There needs to be a counterweight to the Secretary of War, and the Secretary of State ain't it.

I hope this happens within my lifetime. Dennis is just a little ahead of things.

[ScotTissue]

23. It's a stupid idea

Function does not follow organization. If it did, long ago the patriarchy would have formed the Council of Providing Hot Chicks and Chicken.

[caledesi]

13. Uh, yeah. nt

[snoochie]

24. No

It accentuates the qualities he possesses which make him seem like the most pragmatic candidate.

I can't read minds, so I won't go so far as to guess how many might be under the mistaken impression that advocating peace is for some reason associated with being weak on defense. The whole reason for the international level of the Dept of Peace would be to preclude the necessity to fight wars. In this way, it literally is an enhancement to our defense policy.

Additionally, referring to what you said about this being the job of the State Department, I will just say that you're mistaken. The job of the State Department is to work with foreign governments of all types and on all topics (certain economic issues, conflicts, travel issues, etc.) With respect to our relationships with foreign nations, the Department of Peace would be dedicated to the peaceful resolution of conflicts, no doubt. In this area it would slightly overlap the responsibilities currently covered by the State Department.

However, this is but one area the Department of Peace would work in. Kucinich consistently states that the goal of this department would not simply be to avoid wars. Other goals to be achieved by this department would be developing programs to reduce violence in our society. To reduce violence in the home, at school, and in our streets.

Someone mentioned a study where schools were trying to stop bullying by addressing the issue early. Shockingly some parents thought schools should let the bullying continue. They thought that bullying or being bullied was just 'part of growing up'. If you're right about this hurting him more than helping him, and I don't necessarily believe you are, but if so, then IMO primitive thinking is the reason. IMO the majority of Americans are ready to evolve.

[maggrwaggr]

28. We need people like Dennis K.

I feel that just to think about a Department of Peace is a great thing.

Everybody should think about it. Why don't we have a Department of Peace? Why should/shouldn't we have one?

It's great.

[eridani]

30. You calling the Father of Our Country Fringe??!!?!?

George Washington introduced the first legislation for a Department of Peace in 1793.

http://www.dopc.us/

[Bucky]

31. Your facts seem to be wrong

The DoP website mentions that Washington proposed a Department of Peace in 1793, but doesn't offer a citation for it. I Googled around and found one website (Magical Blend.com) that makes a similar, but more specific claim:

{The Department of Peace) was first proposed by no less a person than Dr. Benjamin Rush in 1793 during the writing of the Constitution. Dr. Rush, a signatory of the Declaration of Independence and a Major General in the Continental Army, proposed in Benjamin Banneker’s widely popular almanac that there be an Office of Peace on a level with the Department of War, with a Secretary appointed in the same manner.

I added the emphasis to point out the difference in claims. This earlier source says it was the early abolitionist Benjamin Rush who proposed it, not President Washington. But the site says it happened in 1793 during the Constitutional Convention .

Only the Con-Con happened in 1787, six years earlier. 1793 was the beginning of Washington's second term in office. Also the site says his proposal appeared in Bannekar's almanac. But of course the Philadelphia convention met in complete confidentiality. Nothing of its discussion was published for over 40 years after it happened. Dr Rush wasn't even a member of Congress when he wrote that article. He was a private citizen speculating on ephemeral matters.

The DoP is an idea worth considering on its own merits. You should tell your buds at DOPC.us to quit butchering history to support their case.

[goodhue]

38. in good company

Maybe it is wrong but in my experience the idea that George Washington first proposed a department of peace is pretty prevelant. I first heard Washington credited by Tom Harkin. Harkin of course is a big supporter of the already existing but United States Institute of Peace.

http://www.usip.org/aboutus/index.html

The United States Institute of Peace is an independent, nonpartisan federal institution created by Congress to promote the prevention, management, and peaceful resolution of international conflicts. Established in 1984, the Institute meets its congressional mandate through an array of programs, including research grants, fellowships, professional training, education programs from high school through graduate school, conferences and workshops, library services, and publications. The Institute's Board of Directors is appointed by the President of the United States and confirmed by the Senate.
http://www.usip.org/aboutus/index.html

Dennis' concept goes further in that includes a domestic violence focus not just international conflict. While folks here may belittle the idea, it in fact plays very well in the peace community and in the international community and probably informed PEP's selection of Kucinich as the 2003 recipient of the Gandhi Peace Award

http://www.pepeace.org/tmpl/gandhi.html

[LWolf]

33. Have you read his proposal?

It's a "lovely sounding" name, but have you actually read what his DOP is all about?

http://www.kucinich.us/issues/departmentpeace.php

<snip>

As we stand on the threshold of a new millennium, it is time to free ourselves, to jettison our illusions and fears and transform age-old challenges with new thinking. We can conceive of peace as not simply the absence of violence but the active presence of the capacity for a higher evolution of human awareness, of respect, trust, and integrity. Of peace, wherein we all may tap the infinite capabilities of humanity to transform consciousness and conditions that impel or compel violence at a personal, group, or national level toward creating understanding, compassion, and love. We can bring forth new understandings where peace, not war, becomes inevitable. Can we move from wars to end all wars to peace to end all war?

Citizens across the United States are now uniting in a great cause to establish a Department of Peace, seeking nothing less than the transformation of our society, to make non-violence an organizing principle, to make war archaic through creating a paradigm shift in our culture for human development for economic and political justice and for violence control. Its work in violence control will be to support disarmament, treaties, peaceful coexistence and peaceful consensus building. Its focus on economic and political justice will examine and enhance resource distribution, human and economic rights and strengthen democratic values.

Domestically, the Department of Peace would address violence in the home, spousal abuse, child abuse, gangs, police-community relations conflicts and work with individuals and groups to achieve changes in attitudes that examine the mythologies of cherished world views, such as 'violence is inevitable' or 'war is inevitable'. Thus it will help with the discovery of new selves and new paths toward peaceful consensus.

The Department of Peace will also address human development and the unique concerns of women and children. It will envision and seek to implement plans for peace education, not simply as a course of study, but as a template for all pursuits of knowledge within formal educational settings.

Who can say they don't support the evolution of awareness, respect, trust, and integrity? What is so "fringe" about economic and political justice? And why is it that, when people question his DOP, they never mention the domestic portions? Are Americans so married to violence in the home, spousal abuse, child abuse, gangs, etc. that they can't envision healing that shameful part of our culture?

I, for one, would love to see America evolve in the direction of non-violence and all the other goals of the DOP. And I'd love to see Dennis Kucinich lead the way.

[php1949]

34. Kucinich is building a movement

He may not win the Democratic nomination, but he is building a long-term movement that will continue on long after the 2004 election. Personally, I love Kucinich, but I may vote for Dean in the NY primary to prevent Lieberman from winning.

[tinanator]

35. Not hardly

it shows that he IS the only opposition to Bushcorp policies.
But then, that only matters if you want to change the status quo.

[knight_of_the_star]

36. Well, it sounds good, but

I hope he doesn't favor total disarmament or something like that. There was someone who said something to the effect of, "He who desires peace must be ready for war."

[tinanator]

37. of course he doesn't!

May I suggest attending an appearance or listening to his speeches?
He may even have a website.