Hillary's warzone Thanksgiving

[ShaneGR]

LATE EDIT: If you've got a bone to pick with Hillary, do it at FreeRepublic please.

I've often wondered why the Presidential candidates with security clearance to get government escort don't visit Afghanistan or Iraq (I would suppose this to include Kerry, Edwards, Gephardt, Lieberman, and Kucinich). I'm not saying that as a negative, as it's a dangerous place for a Presidential candidate. But it seems like an opportunity to find out more about the realities of what is happening, and get some press. Hillary is in Afghanistan today, and will be visiting Iraq over the weekend. She's with another another Dem, Harry Reed.

Anyways, so much for Dems not caring about the troops:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/998749.asp?0cv=CA00

(snip)
TURKEY WITH THE TROOPS
Clinton and Reed, who once served as a U.S. Army paratrooper, were having Thanksgiving dinner with U.S. troops at Bagram Air Base, just north of the capital, and then flying to join U.S. forces at another base in the southern city of Kandahar for the traditional turkey meal.
Democratic senators have been critical of the Bush administration’s handling of post-combat operations in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Clinton, who represents New York state, was to meet at Bagram with members of the 10th Mountain Division, which is based in Fort Drum, N.Y.

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

1. Go Hillary!

I'm proud to have her as my Senator.

[IndianaGreen]

2. Did you read what Hillary said about Afghanistan?

She is the real turkey over there!

The story is posted in LBN.

[ShaneGR]

5. What's wrong with what she said??

KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) -- Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton on Thursday promised that America will stand with Afghanistan as it tries to rebuild after a quarter-century of conflict, and warned Taliban rebels that they "are fighting a losing battle."

I don't see anything wrong with that, as I don't equate Afghanistan with Iraq. I.E... I would have gotten rid of the Taliban also but I wouldn't have invaded Iraq.

[IndianaGreen]

10. I won't repost my LBN answer, here is the URL

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=242611#242800

[ShaneGR]

12. I find your logic to be, shall I say, 'lacking'

The Taliban are resurgent because the majority Pashtuns are tired of the lawlessness and abuses of the warlords. Given a choice between order and chaos, the people are choosing the order that the Taliban have promised.

So are you advocating we return Afghanistan to the Osama supporting Taliban? The same Taliban that cuts limbs off for petty crimes, stones women to death for having affairs with men, and literally forbids women from doing ANYTHING including working or going to school?

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

7. Just saw it

But...
I don't think there was much wrong with what was said- she's right, there still are security loopholes that need to be dealt with. We can't leave the country we tore apart to stand alone, as much as I don't think a lot of us wanted troops over there- we do have to fix what we tore apart. Maybe Karzai is not fully representative of power in Afghanistan, but I don't think it detracts from the overall message of what she's trying to say. I agree that it was not the smartest thing to say. Nobody is saying that Ms. Clinton was right, either. But I think that we do need to clean up our mess over there, and if that starts with a pledge of solidarity with the Afghans to create a little peace with them, then so be it. You have to learn how to appeal to other nations through your speech as well as your actions, which is what she was trying to do.

And none of this makes me have less respect for Hillary. I am still as proud as ever to have her as my Senator and she's been one of the biggest critics of Bush, which is an A in my book.

[IndianaGreen]

9. Karzai = Chalabi, Chalabi = Karzai

Hillary either has her head up her ass (as she did on her visit to Israel), or she is pandering (as she also did on her visit to Israel).

[ShaneGR]

14. That's just ridiculous

You need to back that up with data on Washington lobbying prior to the invasion, and data that shows Kharzai has a real financial stake in the place. If anything, I feel bad for the guy because two years after we put him in, he's still begging for money... despite the fact we're pouring hundreds of billions into Iraq.

[littlejoe]

4. I wish she was my senator.

I'm unfortunately from Missouri, home of Kit Bond and, aarrrrrgh, John Ashcroft!

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

8. ack!

now that's scary...

[NewJeffCT]

3. Most of them are scared

They're scared, but they don't want to admit it... didn't some reps visit Baghdad for the day, only to be helicoptered out to Kuwait for the evening?

[ShaneGR]

6. There actually have been a lot of visits

Particularly by the members of the Intelligence committees. There was a visit by some House Reps that got shortened, I believe it was around the time Wolfowitz got shot at with RPG's.

[JI7]

11. sgr2

even before the 9/11 attacks hillary was speaking out on human rights , especially rights for women in afghanistan and other places but the right wing attacked her for it. do you remember sometime after the afghanistan war started that the administration had laura bush come out and talk about working on women's rights there. but that went away after about a week.the only place laura bush visited was european countries like france which oddly right wingers hate.i would love to put up that picture of jaques chirac kissing laura bush's hand next to hillary with the american troops.that would really make the right wingers lose it.

and hillary had also visited kosovo when clinton was in office(bill clinton and chelsea did also, they spend thanksgiving in kosovo with the troops then).

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

13. She's always been an advocate for human rights.

Take a look at her speech from the Women's World Conference in Beijing from 1995. It's excellent.

[IndianaGreen]

16. Hillary is as flawed as Big Dog

They both sound good, but they both will sacrifice principle on the altar of political expediency. Should I mention Big Dog's signing of DOMA?

[ShaneGR]

17. snore

You're boring. Could you find another thread to hijack with ridiculousness, we're trying to have a postive conversation here.

[IndianaGreen]

20. Are we supposed to kiss Hillary's ass everytime she shows up?

She is a fucking politician, and she can be as shallow as all of them!

Hillary's comments about Karzai and Afghanistan are totally idiotic and ignorant, UNLESS she is pandering to her constituents back home, in which case she is enabling Bush by saying that all is fine in Afghanistan.

How many women are still wearing their burqas in Iraq, Hillary, or did you even bothered to find out?

[ShaneGR]

21. That would be fine, if you didn't duck every question

So are you advocating we return Afghanistan to the Osama supporting Taliban? The same Taliban that cuts limbs off for petty crimes, stones women to death for having affairs with men, and literally forbids women from doing ANYTHING including working or going to school?

Go away.

[IndianaGreen]

22. If you wanted a Hillary lovefest

you should have posted this in The Lounge.

Hillary's ignorant comments about Karzai and Afghanistan make her a legitimate target.

On edit: It may come as a shock to some, but the Clintons don't own the Democratic Party.

[ShaneGR]

24. quit ducking

So are you advocating we return Afghanistan to the Osama supporting Taliban? The same Taliban that cuts limbs off for petty crimes, stones women to death for having affairs with men, and literally forbids women from doing ANYTHING including working or going to school?

[IndianaGreen]

26. Nothing has changed for the women in Afghanistan, nothing!

Karzai named a religious wacko as head of the ministry on morals that still keep women in burqas and more recently viciously attacked and threatened the reigning Miss Afghanistan (now Miss World) for posing in a bikini.

You also miss the point that it is not for us to choose the government of Afghanistan. Karzai is not a democratic elected president, he was not the result of some election where women were allowed to vote. Karzai was chosen by a combined tribal and warlords council, women were kept out.

BTW, how many Afghans were among the 9/11 hijackers?

Nothing has changed for the women of Afghanistan, nothing!

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

23. She's NOT saying everything is fine

IG, read the article again. I think she IS saying there's still problems in Afghanistan with Taliban and Al Qaeda forces...

She's definitely not indicating in the article that Afghanistan is one big happy country again.

[ShaneGR]

25. Don't even bother

He's just trolling.

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

27. IG

is a woman. fyi.

on edit: and hey, yeah, I'm done with this- i've got better things to do on Thanksgiving, like spend time with family.

[IndianaGreen]

29. Does Hillary really believe that Karzai represents the Afghan people?

"I am very impressed by the resolve of the Afghan government, President Karzai in particular," Clinton said after a meeting with Karzai at the presidential palace.

http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AFGHAN_HILLARY_CLINTON?SITE=FLPAP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Why doesn't she go and see the country outside of Kabul before she makes such a pandering sweeping statement as the one she made above?

Perhaps Hillary would have done herself some good had she done her homework about Afghanistan first:

Afghanistan: Warlords Implicated in New Abuses
Report Details Threats to Women's Rights, Freedom of Expression

(New York, July 29, 2003) - Afghan warlords and political strongmen supported by the United States and other nations are engendering a climate of fear in Afghanistan that is threatening efforts to adopt a new constitution and could derail national elections scheduled for mid-2004, Human Rights Watch said in a new report released today.

The report warns that violence, political intimidation, and attacks on women and girls are discouraging political participation and endangering gains made on women's rights in Afghanistan over the last year.

"Human rights abuses in Afghanistan are being committed by gunmen and warlords who were propelled into power by the United States and its coalition partners after the Taliban fell in 2001," said Brad Adams, executive director of the Asia Division of Human Rights Watch. "These men and others have essentially hijacked the country outside of Kabul. With less than a year to go before national elections, Afghanistan's human rights situation appears to be worsening."

http://hrw.org/press/2003/07/afghan072903.htm

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

19. I disagree

The Clintons are politically savvy, but I think that in order to make a difference you have to be. I don't think Hillary has sacrificed too much of her principles, in fact she seems to be very pronounced and definite on her principles. In the way of politics, everyone is out for personal gain, but when you can find those who truly are in it to make a difference it is a wonderful thing. I think for the most part, Ms. Clinton is in it to make a difference. A couple years back, I did a research paper on her. I found it fascinating all that she went through from her time in college, to when she was younger, to now. All throughout, she was a VERY dedicated and strong advocate for human rights and democratic rights. I believe that she is one of the best liberal voices we have right now in the Senate.

[wegottem]

18. trade

I'll trade Orin Hatch, and Bennett for Hillary, thats 2 for one trade.

[ShaneGR]

15. Yup

I remember the stories about her Kosovo trips. Very uplifting.

[TahitiNut]

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