Question: Did Clark support the Vietnam war from beginning to end?

[dkf]

[carpetbagger]

1. Politicians decide on war, soldiers follow.

I would assume he supported the war whether or not he would have propagated and continued it were he one of the people charged with doing so.

[dkf]

3. He volunteered though, didn't he?

It would be helpful to know how he feels about Vietnam because that would give us a better idea of what he would possibly do in Iraq.

One of my friends said the other day that we should not have pulled out of Vietnam because it made us look weak. Frankly, that type of thinking scares the bejeesus out of me.

[KittyWampus]

15. He Didn't "Volunteer" He Was Already A West Pointer

and as far as I know, career Military make a point of staying OUT OF POLITICS!

They go where their Commander-in-Chief sends them.

That's why we need someone who won't send our troops needlessly into harms way and ONLY as a last resort.

[Jerseycoa]

2. Yes

He supported the Vietnam War from beginning to end. He's on record with this.

[dkf]

4. Are there any good articles on Clark and the Vietnam War?

I don't want to know what he did, I want his thinking on if it was justified, how he felt about the deaths of so many Americans and Vietnamese, etc.

[Jerseycoa]

5. Like JFK

Clark was a Cold Warrior. No secret about it. I heard him talk about the war on an NPR radio interview. I might still have the link if you want to hear it.

[dkf]

7. Latest on JFK is that he was going to pull out of Vietnam

but he was shot.

I'd appreciate a link if you have one please.

[Jerseycoa]

16. Yes

That was said about JFK long ago, too. He was a Cold Warrior in any case.

This was the radio show.

NHPR The Exchange 2003-11-05

[Media_Lies_Daily]

37. For a supposed "Cold Warrior", JFK sure had a different approach...

Try reading NSAM 263 that JFK signed on October 11, 1963. It authorized the withdrawal of the first 1,000 troops from Vietnam by the end of 1963. He also stated that the war was South Vietnam's war to win.

<http://www.jfklancer.com/NSAM263.html>

Then read NSAM 273 signed by LBJ on November 26, 1963. That NSAM significantly escalated U.S. participation in the war. It's more than a little interesting that it was signed only four days after JFK's death.

<http://www.jfklancer.com/NSAM273.html>

JFK successfully resisted the efforts of the military/CIA to get the U.S, involved in Laos as a broader escalation of the use of U.S. advisors in Southeast Asia.

Additionally, JFK was attempting in the last days of his life to thaw out the relationship between Cuba and the U.S. He was definitely bucking the Cold War establishment on that.

His experience with the Cuban Missile Crisis also helped him to understand that the brinksmanship of the Cold War was not the way to go.

RFK was JFK's closest advisor...I doubt if anyone would ever typify him as a Cold Warrior.

[RichM]

6. An excellent question.

I have not heard Clark speak directly to this question. But the tone of his references to his war wounds in Vietnam sound distinctly like someone who still believes the wounds were suffered in defense of a "noble cause."

Furthermore, it is known that he gave a speech praising the graduating class at the School of the Americas in 1996 -- the place where the US trains assassins & terrorists for committing mayhem against civilians in Latin America. He supports the fraudulent "War against Terror." He still admires the notorious liar & Bush enabler Colin Powell. He admires most of Bush's top henchmen. He supervised the massive use of depleted uranium weapons in the former Yugoslavia.

This is someone who just does not understand the political purpose for which the US military has consistently been used, in the world. He is a brainwashed product of West Point & the elite sections of the US military, who genuinely thinks that what the US military does in the world is "protect freedom and democracy." IOW, he accepts all the basic lies undergirding standard US propaganda, with the one recent exception that he is willing to say (at least now) that the Iraq invasion was not necessary.

I doubt he is familiar with the real stories behind the following incidents:

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/US_Interventions_WBlumZ.html

I'd be willing to bet that if asked directly about Vietnam today, Clark would still defend US involvement as being "well-intentioned," even if "flawed" in its execution. Probably no Democrat except Kucinich or Sharpton would be willing to say it was a monstrous crime from start to finish.

[dkf]

8. Hey where are all you Clarkies?

[Cocoa]

9. I think you've gotten a clear YES

I seriously doubt Clark supporters see him as a serious critic of Vietnam.

Maybe you should ask how Clark's Vietnam support affects his candidacy.

[dkf]

11. I want to know if Clark supported the pullout.

Or if he thought we should have continued fighting.

I think that is relevant to what we are going through today.

[Cocoa]

13. I think you can move to the "relevance" at this point

Pretty safe to assume Clark was not the strongest opponent of Vietnam among the candidates.

Now, under that assumption, the relevance...?

[dkf]

24. I don't want to constantly send our men and women into a

meatgrinder.

If we are just sending our guys into a suicide mission I say forget it already.

I don't know what Wes Clark feels on this matter.

[Cocoa]

28. an important question

basically, will Clark send troops to die for a futile cause?

I don't want that either. Like you, I would want a president with the courage to cut and run, which is always unpopular and difficult.

I'm not sure the answer lies in his Vietnam opinion, he had a long career at the top of the military after that.

[SEAburb]

17. Clark has put out a plan for Iraq

It's funny you put so much importance on what Clark thought thirty yrs ago, when you Deanies don't put "any" on what Dean thought a few yrs, weeks, days....

[Jerseycoa]

26. No

He did not support the pullout. He thought we should have stayed in and won.

If you are looking to relevance to today:

Iraq Strategy

[SEAburb]

31. dkf isn't looking for relevance, just trying to take the focus off

Dean's draft issue.

[dkf]

32. You sure about that? He didn't support the pullout of Vietnam?

Yikes.

Evidence please.

[KittyWampus]

18. Impatient Aren't We, What's The Hurry dkf?

If you have to use the john... log off and try back later. Or maybe too much coffee?

I posted the query on the blog to ask for direct quotes.

I've heard Clark comment that he saw the Vietnam protesters and supported their right to do so.

I have NEVER heard him comment on the actual POLTICS involved in our involvement in Vietnam.

And as a career military man he would NOT have ever commented publicly on it, either.

Military members are supposed to be non partisan.

Clark is clearly proud of his service and clearly supports the men and women serving in our military.

[IndianaGreen]

10. You weren't around during Vietnam, were you?

The disenchantment with Vietnam did not begin until after the lies of the government could no longer withstand the light of truth.

The vast majority of Americans believed we were doing the right thing in Vietnam, even after Tet.

[dkf]

12. You're right, I'm too young.

I had an older cousin who was drafted and had to go. That was a very bad thing for my family.

I only have the perspective of hindsight, and from here it looks not good.

So I guess a better question would be, knowing what Clark knows now about the lies and such, would he have supported the Vietnam war.

[KittyWampus]

21. THAT Is A Good Question

although hindsight is 50/50.

[Pastiche423]

19. What does having

beeg around during the war have to do w/knowing it was wrong?

[KittyWampus]

23. To Alot Of People- Vietnam Was Originally Considered

a fight to keep commies in check.

A lot of young people AND Americans bought the lie.

Ever hear of Ron Kovic?

[Pastiche423]

27. The topic of this thread

is "Did Clark support the Vietnam war from beginning to end?

I don't know where you were then, but where I was (in serveral states) the people were vastly against the last five years of the bloodbath.

Was clark ever against it? (including right now, November 27, 2003) I seriously doubt it, as that is what he has lived for.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

33. Because it's much easier to look back with perfect 20/20 hindsight,...

...knowing all that we know now, to understand that the reasons we fought in Vietnam were wrong.

At the time the war was raging, it was not that easy to understand. Most of the people that fought in Vietnam had parents who had fought in WWII and/or Korea. At that time, WWII and Korea were believed to have been fought for good reasons...stopping Germany and Japan in WWII, and stopping North Korea and China in the Korean War.

Tensions were very high during the Cold War...it was all about stopping the spread of Communism without having to resort to the use of nuclear weapons. I remember "duck and cover" nuclear war drills in elementary school while living in Florida during the late 1950s through the early 1960s. I remember the reactions to the Bay of Pigs, and the hundreds of military air transports flying overhead heading to bases in southern Florida during the Cuban Missile Crisis. When JFK was killed there was a lot of wild talk about nuking Cuba and the old Soviet Union because rumors were being spread that the Soviets had been behind JFK's assassination. This was all very real and very frightening to anyone who lived during that period of time.

Coming from the background made it much easier to believe that fighting in Vietnam would stop the spread of Communism in Southeast Asia. It wasn't until 1968 following the Tet Offensive that people began asking tough questions about the reasons for the war and the high cost we were paying for no apparent reason. That's when the anti-war movement REALLY picked up and millions of people began to march in protest of the war.

Of course, we now know quite a bit more about the Vietnam War. We know that the Tonkin Gulf Incident was a fabrication designed to inflame the American people and to make them believe Vietnam was a good war to fight. We know now that the Domino Theory was also part of the propaganda package being used at the time. We know now that certain large corporations had vested interests in ensuring that the war was continued for as long as possible to enhance the continued sale of planes, helicopters, fuel, uniforms, weapons, ammunition, c-rations, etc.

But at the time, we didn't know all of that, and most of us still trusted the government to say and do the right thing. Now we trust vry little if anything of what the U.S. government has to say on any subject. But we got there the hard way.

[Pastiche423]

38. I was alive, well and knew the VN war was wrong

long before it was over.

I was by far not alone in knowing the goverment was lying to the people. Just who were "most of us" that trusted the government to do the right thing? I must have been living in a parallel universe back then.

The VN war was my induction into adulthood. It was a very sad and angry one. I lost too many classmates and loved ones, including the ones that came back. Especially the ones that came back.

Anyone that supported and stills supports the VN war is not fit to govern our country. The violent mindset should not continue.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

42. Okay, when exactly did you personally know the Vietnam war was wrong?

[Pastiche423]

44. 1969

[Jerseycoa]

43. So was I

My husband went to Vietnam while I wore out shoe leather protesting the war. He came home, joined VVAW, and we wore out shoe leather together protesting the war. All of this was a very long struggle, taking years before "most of" anybody, anywhere in this country admitted to themselves the government was lying to the people, and a whole lot of Americans never did.

We like to think we live in some huge anti-war universe, but that has never been true. This is a big country with lots and lots of people who think differently. Clark thinks differently, but he doesn't lie about it. He says when he was at Oxford where Clinton protested the war, he did not. He says when he came home from Vietnam he was hurt by the way the country had turned against the armed services and he worked the rest of his career to change it. And he did.

Clark will never lie to bring this country to war. He will never lie period. He is against the Iraq War. He was not against the war in Vietnam and he wasn't against the war in Afghanistan. He just wants wars, when they are necessary and as a last resort, after every last diplomatic step that can be taken is taken, and every effort to assemble support of allies is made -- to be fought properly and conducted rationally and with decency. Does anyone really believe anymore that wars won't happen no matter what we want?

I have the sense people are wanting to "educate" the poor little Clarkies who are being oh, so deceived by the big bad general. Believe me on this, I thought long and I thought hard. I believe this is the best possible president for this country at this time in its history.

I respect conscientious objection to war and I respect sincere protest to war, and so does General Clark. But going back to Vietnam, the practical result of draft deferments for college kids who could get them, was that poor and lower middle class kids who couldn't, were the ones who were sent to Vietnam.

I'm not talking about Dean, who didn't want to go to war and couldn't, or Kucinich, who did want to go to war and couldn't. (Although, frankly, if Dean had protested even once, we could stop beating this dead horse of a draft-dodging charge.) The practical result of today's volunteer army is the same.

The point is every draft evader was not a hero; some just didn't want to get killed. A rational enough response. Some just wanted to stay home and get high. Most who went did so because it was expected of them. But there were those who went to war thinking it was the right thing to do. Clark was one of them.

I truly wish you would learn more about him before you make a judgment as you have, because a "violent mindset" in no way applies.

[Pastiche423]

46. Choosing the military path

and continuing on that path after knowing that the VN war was wrong, wrong wrong is a violent mindset. Furthermore, deciding to make the military your life career, knowing the number one thing soldiers are taught is to kill, is a violent mindset.

Our country has not fought a defensive war in my lifetime. All of the wars (police actions) have been fought for power and resources, benefitted only TPTB.

I have been fighting and will continue to fight to keep clark out of the White House. He should have pursued the repug ticket harder.

[dkf]

47. Dean said he didn't believe in the Vietnam war.

but he's not the type to protest anything because he considers both the far left and the far right too extreme.

I went to protest Bush a few months ago and I must admit, some of the people that went were really weird! It was hilarious.

[Jerseycoa]

56. I only mention it

Because it could put the subject to rest.

[pinkpops]

14. Even if he did support it from beginning to end

It ended 30 years ago. Since then, he and many others have had time to reflect. The main lesson learned is don't start wars, because they are hard to stop. They take on a life of their own, with each side taking a life for a life without any regard for why it supposedly started in the first place. Usually why it started in the first place is greed in some form or another.

[RichM]

22. That is not even close to being the "main lesson learned."

The real lesson -- which has NEVER been learned or recognized or even really voiced in the US -- is that the US government is a consistent terrorist & murderous aggressor on the world stage; that it routinely lies to its own population about the real reasons for (and extent of) its military interventions; and that it is insanely vicious in the execution of its aggression.

Your remark about "each side taking a life for a life without any regard for why it supposedly started in the first place" completely misses the point. You make it sound like the Vietnamese and the Americans were both to blame, more or less equally, in the conflict. That's ridiculous. The US was 100% in the wrong, from beginning to end. (And this is no doubt just the sort of thing that Clark, the "kindler, gentler" militarist, would regard as a noble endeavor.)

[pinkpops]

25. That's a real nice

Avatar image you've got there.
The lesson you say was learned was apparently not learned, since it continues to be true. Maybe true for my lesson as well.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

20. It might help if you had Clark's biography....

...as a career military officer, I'm sure that he publicly supported the policies of the U.S. Government toward the conflict in Vietnam. Privately, I'm sure that he had differing opinions, as did most other career officers who felt there were better ways to fight a war like that without wasting lives for no apparent purpose.

IMHO, his experience in Vietnam led him to be in the forefront of developing war-fighting techniques that minimize the loss of American lives in combat. His peers at the senior levels of the Army developed the same line of thought for the same reasons. For an example of this, see the last paragraph in this post.

General info from his website:
<http://clark04.com/about/>

"Born in Chicago on December 23, 1944, General Clark grew up in Little Rock, Arkansas. In 1962, he graduated from Hall High School, where he led his swim team to the state championship. Always committed to public service, he went to West Point at the age of 17 and graduated at the top of his class in 1966. He also earned a Master's Degree in Philosophy, Politics, and Economics from Oxford University, where he was a Rhodes Scholar."

More specific info:
<http://clark04.com/records/>

"The decorated war veteran began his military service at the US Military Academy at West Point, where he graduated first in his class in 1966.

Clark studied at Oxford University as a Rhodes Scholar from 1966 to 1968, receiving a Masters Degree in Politics, Philosophy, and Economics.

From 1969 to 1970, Captain Clark served in Vietnam. In February 1970, he was wounded in battle. He suffered gunshot wounds to the right shoulder, right hand, right hip and right leg. For his valor, he earned the Silver Star.

The Award for Silver Star states, 'As the friendly force maneuvered through the treacherous region, it was suddenly subjected to an intense small arms fire from a well-concealed insurgent element. Although painfully wounded in the initial volley, Captain Clark immediately directed his men on a counter-assault of the enemy positions. With complete disregard for his personal safety, Captain Clark remained with his unit until the reactionary force arrived and the situation was well in hand. His courageous initiative and exemplary professionalism significantly contributed to the successful outcome of the engagement. Captain Clark's unquestionable valor in close combat against a hostile force is in keeping with the finest traditions of the military service and reflects great credit upon himself, the 1st Infantry Division, and the United States Army.'

From 1971 to 1974, Captain Clark served as an Instructor and Assistant Professor of Social Science at West Point, teaching, among other subjects, political philosophy.

Captain Clark attended the U.S. Army Command and General Staff College in Fort Leavenworth, Kansas from 1974 to 1975 where he was awarded a Masters of Military Art and Science.

The following year, (1976) Major Clark worked as a White House Fellow, serving as Special Assistant to the Director of the Office of Management and Budget.

His stellar work led James T. Lynn in the Office of Management and Budget to state, "Major Clark is the most able White House Fellow I have known during my seven years in Washington. He brought to his work a brilliant mind and rare common sense. He has initiative, style, imagination, moral courage, and integrity each in extraordinary degree. He has a rare sensitivity to others and a remarkable ability to motivate and lead them. He is totally dedicated to public service as a military officer."

From 1976 to 1989, Clark held various posts around the world including commanding battalions and brigades and directing the Battle Command Training Program.

From 1989 to 1991, Colonel Clark served as Commanding General of the National Training Center at Fort Irwin, California. At Fort Irwin, he developed new training methodologies for Division and Corps level training, helping to train 13 Divisions, and he conducted the first ever Corps level BCTP training exercise.

General Clark served as Commanding General for the 1st Cavalry Division in Fort Hood, Texas, from 1992 to 1994, where he transitioned the Division into a rapidly deployable force and conducted three emergency deployments to Kuwait.

General Clark served as Commanding General of the United States Southern Command, in Quarry Heights, Panama from 1996 to 1997, where he commanded all U.S. forces and was responsible for the direction of most U.S. military activities and interests in Latin America and the Caribbean.

From 1997 to May 2000, General Clark served as Supreme Allied Commander, Europe. During this assignment, General Clark engaged in high-level diplomacy to lead a multinational force in the 1999 Kosovo Conflict. Through his direction, NATO and the United States were able to halt ethnic cleansing in Kosovo and return 1.5 million ethnic Albanians to their homes. This was accomplished without the loss of a single American life.

[AmericanDem]

30. Can you imagine Dean with a resume like this?

Dean the "boy", living the life or privilege and skiing, while "men" like Clark and Kerry avoid death?

After you read enough of the Dean supporter responses, you know they wish they can just add a few key strokes to get his true colors to shine. It CAN'T happen. This is what took place, Clark faced DEATH head on, while a "boy" was able to ski because of a privileged lifestyle!

[Pastiche423]

34. IOW

clark has killer instinct.

[Beaker]

45. Clark has a KILLER resume, that's for sure.

would you care to put the resume of any of the other candidates up against it?

[Pastiche423]

48. I see that you missed my point

I will not support, nor vote for someone that takes pride in having "killer" on his resume.

[Beaker]

49. I didn't miss your point- I just disregarded it...

as pointless.

Don't vote then, if it'll make you sleep better at night.

Clark isn't the best chance the Dems have of beating the Lil' Dictator, he's the only chance.

[Pastiche423]

52. The best repug chance?

No thank you. I have never voted repug in my life and at this dangerous and important time in our country's history, I'm not about to start now.

I am supporting, working for and voting for our next Democratic president.

[Beaker]

58. Oh, I'm sorry, I got the distinct impression that you didn't like Clark...

but if you're supporting, working and voting for him, I guess I was mistaken.

Keep up the good work!!

[Jerseycoa]

62. You know something

If anybody could turn me into a Dean-basher, it would be you. But it won't happen. I'm much more interested in beating Bush in 2004 than being insulting to other candidates and their supporters. I've solemnly sworn on more than one occasion here that I will work for Howard Dean if he gets the nomination. Don't make it hard.

[roughsatori]

65. If Clark wins the nomination he will lose the election

He will not be able to motivate the registered Democratic base to get out and vote. But I am not worried as I see his support slipping away so I no longer fear that he will win the nomination.

[RichM]

50. Resumes don't mean so much. If he's a brainwashed militarist,

a bunch of medals don't compensate for it. Someone who believes the US aggression in Vietnam was some sort of noble enterprise is a brainwashed militarist. It would be better to have a political leader that had NO medals and NO killer resume, than a leader with a resume & medals who doesn't even realize that the US role in Vietnam was criminal and inexcusable.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

40. You know, I have a real hard time bashing Dean ...

...for being rejected by a military doctor during his draft physical in 1971. U.S. participation for the war was winding down and the need for additional troops was decreasing. I'm quite sure that had it been earlier in the war that the doctor would have made a different decision resulting in Dean being okayed for the draft. Dean would have had a few choices at that point...get drafted, join the National Guard, or head for Canada.

I can think of an individual that agreed to serve in the military and then went AWOL while his fellow servicemen were still dying in Vietnam. IMHO, that's FAR worse than anything Dean did or didn't do as a result of being rejected by his draft board.

[dkf]

29. Clark is a civilian now so he could tell us what he thinks if he wanted to

And while he showed heroism in Vietnam, I don't think that enlightens us much about how he would act as a President.

Like you said, in the military you follow orders. He also did tactical planning, etc. But I don't need to understand how well he carries out orders.

I want to know about the soul of the man. What drives him to use force. Does he have the ability to concede his losses if he sees only more deaths and more destruction with no chance of success?

While he can't talk very frankly about Iraq because that could undercut our current policy, examining his views on Vietnam would be an excellent substitute.

[KittyWampus]

35. Clark Wanted To Stop The Slaughter In Rawanda

He said the Pentagon asked for Papers to be drawn up for Rawanda and those were then summarily ignored.

That is why he stuck his neck out in Kosovo.

That is why the Neo-cons who SHOULD have been non paritsan wanted him fired.

Clark said, with Dan Rather I believe, that he learned from Rawanda that you don't just draw up papers... you stand up for what you think is NECESSARY & Right.

And since Clark pointed out that the hawks didn't want to go into Kosovo becasue it had NO OIL...

And since his books directly challenges the notion that American people or its troops are even slightly interested in EMPIRE BUIDING...

I think it's ludicrous to hear some on this forum that Clark is either a Hawk, a Neo Con or a PNACer.

[KittyWampus]

36. From The Clark Blog

The guys I knew at USMA a couple of years behind Clark supported the war, not uncritically; they understood what they signed up for.. They were a little mystified and often contemptuous of peaceniks who acted as though we wouldn't need armed forces at all if we'd just put on some tie-dye, hold hands on a mountaintop, and sing the Coke theme song

[dkf]

39. Well, I don't think we should just sit around and sing either.

Frankly, I'm a little bitter at the Bush and Clinton administrations because it seems like they are providing our troops with some shoddy equipment.

I think if you send our guys and gals off to risk their lives, they deserve way way better.

[KittyWampus]

41. I Agree- Here's Clark From Rock Vote Debate

: When I was 20 years old, it was the fall of 1965. I was a senior at West Point. Our Army was engaged in Vietnam. The country was still divided, but mostly supportive. I remember going to college campuses, and the organizing was just started.

My classmates and I at West Point were worried. For the first time, we really recognized that when we graduated, we'd be at war. We saw people starting to die. We had about 200,000 troops there.

I realized what it was to serve in the United States Armed Forces. I volunteered for that, because I wanted to protect the country.

CLARK: I stayed with it through Vietnam. And I know today what young people feel, in and out of uniform, when they look at the situation in Iraq.

I went to West Point. I served in the Army because I wanted to protect our country and serve the public. That's why I'm running for president. I never expected to do it.

[Myra]

51. Sounds like another gotcha question, anti-armed services too.

Right up there with:

Q1-"Hey, didn't Clark express support for
(fill in name of Pug Pres)?!?!

A-Of course he did; active military officers are
expected to show loyalty to their commander
in chief and devotion to their missions.

Q2-"Question: Did Clark support the Vietnam war
from beginning to end?"

A-See answer to Q1.

And I think that if these answers bother someone,
then that someone will never be able to vote for
a former military person for public office.

'Cause this latest question is much bigger in scope
than just Clark. It has a subtext of 'Can YOU ever
vote for someone who went to war for the US?!'
And that would include Senator Kerry, and many more.

And then the opposite gotcha question will be asked
in parallel in another thread:

Qa-'Did (Dean, whoever) dodge the draft?!?!'

So, if you were alive during Vietnam and are
a pres candidate...GOTCHA!

[dkf]

53. Wrong - I supported the war in Afghanistan

I wish we had sent in ground troops to KILL Osama Bin Laden.

I wish we put more money into properly outfitting out troops. The lack of body armor, anti-missile technology on our Apache helicopters, ACs, Heaters, adequate MREs in the beginning of the war, lack of parts, etc are criminal.

I wish our anti-chemical/biological weapons suits were adequate. I wish they had better designed canteens which would protect our troops.

I support the defense of our country.

What I don't support is stupidity.

[Jerseycoa]

55. We have this in common then,

with Clark.

[dkf]

64. And in common with Dean

[Donna Zen]

54. A second master's thesis

Clark has a masters beyond the one from Oxford. What he did was took the Pentagon Papers and traced back to 1946 every major bad decision from the time of the writing of the Papers. He then wrote corrective policies to assure that the same mistakes would not be made again. I know an historian who is pulling the impact of his these together.

Clark sees many things wrong with the Vietnam War, although he undoubtedly would see them through a different lens.

The question I had to trouble with, and have only begun to answer is this. Clark is no Shelton. Clark is smart and highly cultured. First in his class...four languages...economics from Oxford...So why didn't he just go out and make a zillion bucks? He could have. In 1985 Clark is rebuilding his car, because he couldn't afford a new one. His son describes too many dinners of rice with tuna.

I read a blog by a UCLA professor about understanding Wesley Clark. I don't think any of us, at least I don't, understand how much Clark loves this country.

Why did he go to Vietnam? Because we were at war. Would he have made different choices at CiC? Absolutely_that was what the Powell doctrine is about. It is called the Powell doctrine because Powell headed the committee, but one of the people at the table was Wesley Clark.

[Jerseycoa]

59. Exactly

This is something Clark bashers really do not get about Wesley Clark: It's all about service to the country, all of it.

[imhotep]

57. What a sad day

when so called liberals now support Vietnam.

[Pastiche423]

60. Are they really liberals?

I think not.

[Jerseycoa]

61. Life's not at all simple, is it?

At least I haven't found it to be.

[roughsatori]

63. Last week we had more then a few defenders of SOA

Now our revisionists are onto Vietnam. I'm observing how people jettison their principles in support of a candidate on a daily basis. Of course I may be making a false assumption that some had progressive values before deciding to support Clark. You can't get rid of what you never had.

I know that we have many sincere Democratic Party members who support Clark here--but I believe we have more then a few Republican members who have used a pretend support of Clark to infiltrate. It is against the rules to list names so I won't.