Iraq is Bush's war. Afghanistan is America's war. Thanks Hillary for

[loudnclear]

remembering the forgotten soldiers in Afghanistan. Someone needs to remember them.

[IndianaGreen]

1. Hillary did not do her homework on Afghanistan

None of the 9/11 hijackers were Afghan or members of the Taliban.

Women and girls in Afghanistan are as oppressed now as they were under the Taliban. Their lot has actually gotten worse. The rise of the warlords eliminated the peace and order that existed under the Taliban rule. Many Pashtuns, who are the majority of the population, are now sympathetic to the resurgent Taliban as a reaction against the current anarchy.

Karzai is a puppet that rules only within his heavely fortified presidential palace.

I believe these are but some of the facts on the ground that have escaped Hillary Clinton's attention during her carefully choreographed visit to the troops.

Afghanistan: Warlords Implicated in New Abuses
Report Details Threats to Women's Rights, Freedom of Expression

(New York, July 29, 2003) - Afghan warlords and political strongmen supported by the United States and other nations are engendering a climate of fear in Afghanistan that is threatening efforts to adopt a new constitution and could derail national elections scheduled for mid-2004, Human Rights Watch said in a new report released today.

The report warns that violence, political intimidation, and attacks on women and girls are discouraging political participation and endangering gains made on women's rights in Afghanistan over the last year.

"Human rights abuses in Afghanistan are being committed by gunmen and warlords who were propelled into power by the United States and its coalition partners after the Taliban fell in 2001," said Brad Adams, executive director of the Asia Division of Human Rights Watch. "These men and others have essentially hijacked the country outside of Kabul. With less than a year to go before national elections, Afghanistan's human rights situation appears to be worsening."

http://hrw.org/press/2003/07/afghan072903.htm

"During the Taleban era if a woman went to market and showed an inch of flesh she would have been flogged, now she's raped."

Amnesty International, 6 October 2003

Afghanistan: No justice and security for women

AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL, 6 October 2003

Abuses perpetrated by armed groups against women and girls since the fall of the Taleban government in November 2001 include rape, abduction, and forced and underage marriage. The exact extent and prevalence of such abuses remains unclear owing to the reluctance of most victims to speak out and the limited capacity for monitoring. However, the opening of regional offices of the AIHRC is beginning to increase the amount of available information about such violence. The initial work by the AIHRC in this area indicates that the abuse of women by armed groups is so common that the body's research department has decided to maintain a separate category in its files for such incidents.

Amnesty International's research indicates a systematic pattern of abuse against women and girls in Mazar-e Sharif, and incidence of abuse in both Nangarhar and Bamiyan provinces. Human Rights Watch has reported on the occurrence of rape of women, girls and boys in southeast Afghanistan, including in Laghman, Ghazni, Gardez and Nangarhar provinces, and in Paghman district of Kabul province.

Incidents reported to Amnesty International included the rape of four girls by members of an armed group. The youngest, aged 12, was unconscious as a result of her injuries when brought to hospital by her parents. UNAMA has investigated a number of incidents of abuse of women and girls by members of armed groups, including incidence of forced marriage of girls as young as 12.

http://rawa.fancymarketing.net/ai-women2.htm

Full Amnesty International Report:

http://www.web.amnesty.org/library/index/engasa110232003

[loudnclear]

This is where Osama's base was and al-qaeda trained

It is where we went in response to 9/11

[IndianaGreen]

8. The 9/11 terrorists were based in Germany and financed by Saudi money

You need to remember who the real enemy was, and it wasn't the over 5,000 Afghan civilians we killed with our bombing of that hapless country.

The women and girls of Afghanistan are still oppressed. What about them?

[ShaneGR]

6. Did we ask the Taliban to hand over Osama?

Yes we did, and they refused. While this was going on, Bin-Laden was making videotapes bragging about the attacks.

So we should have just let him keep operating?

[IndianaGreen]

2. Afghanistan: escalating opposition to the US occupation

Afghanistan: escalating opposition to the US occupation
By Peter Symonds
27 November 2003

Attacks by militia groups are just one symptom of the widespread hostility to the US military presence and its puppet regime in Kabul. The reasons are not hard to find. Any expectations that the US intervention would bring peace and prosperity after 20 years of war have long been dashed. Two years after the US military and its allies toppled the Taliban regime, the country continues to be mired in poverty and economic backwardness. Outside Kabul, rival warlords, tribal chiefs and militia commanders have carved out their own petty empires, imposing their own writ and ruthlessly stamping out any opposition.

Even in Kabul there is a glaring divide between the majority of the population and a small minority that have prospered after the ousting of the Taliban. A recent article in the Christian Science Monitor noted that the wages of teachers were just $35 to $40 a month. “Sadly, only a few teachers have received this paltry sum in over a year. In places like Kabul, where apartment rents have soared to more than $1,800 per month, such salaries don’t even permit purchase of basic food supplies.”

Last Sunday soldiers opened fire on ex-army officers and personnel protesting outside the Defence Ministry to demand three months unpaid wages. One man was killed and at least three others injured in the clash. More than 50,000 people, including officers, will lose their jobs as a result of the restructuring of the military. Some 20,000 have already been dismissed this year.

This deepening social crisis, which a pittance in international aid has done nothing to alleviate, is fuelling the discontent and opposition to the US-backed Karzai regime. The conditions bear a strong resemblance to the social breakdown and political anarchy in Afghanistan in the early 1990s that led to the rise of the Taliban, backed by Pakistan and with the tacit support of Washington. It is not surprising that the Taliban and other opposition militia are becoming emboldened.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/nov2003/afgh-n27.shtml

[ShaneGR]

4. So should we leave? Let the Taliban take the country back over?

Seriously, should no one visit there and talk to or help the government we have in place? Should we allow the country to fall into chaos?

[IndianaGreen]

9. The country is already in chaos

Why do you refuse to accept the evidence provided by Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch? Why do you prefer to believe in fairy tales?

[ShaneGR]

3. Don't you dare start a good thread about a Dem visiting troops

Indiana Green will run in immediately and chop you down to size. She doesn't like Hillary. She doesn't like the Clintons, they don't own the Democrats. Even though she's a Green. But nevermind all of that. How dare you say ANYTHING nice about a Democrat going to Afghanistan, or any other war zone. Lets dround ourselves in cynical negativity. It's the only way to live.

[IndianaGreen]

10. The issue is what Hillary said about Karzai and the Afghan government

not that she went on a PR trip to Afghanistan, as much as a PR trip as Bush's to Iraq.

Why isn't Hillary asking hard questions about Afghanistan and Iraq?

[oasis]

5. Hillary's visit underscores the distinction between the "war on terror"

which civilized folks in the world support, and Iraq's invasion and occupation which only Bush/PNAC and freepers support.

www.newamericancentury.com

[caledesi]

7. Well said Oasis. nt