Now do you believe in LIHOP?

[qanda]

After today's secret photo-op trip to Iraq for the pResident. I started thinking about the logistics of getting Bush* there without so much of a peep, leak, speculation or anything. I read the report from Drudge which outlines the Bush "secret mission" and it said how only top officials were aware of what was going down. Well, it brought back feelings of the type of secrecy that had to be in place for LIHOP. This is absolutely the most corrupt administration to ever exist in America and add to that the stalling on the 911 commission, it really makes you wonder if they just showed their hand on the missing piece of LIHOP-- how could so many conspire to keep a secret?

[LARED]

1. No

Getting the pResident around in secret is hardly the same as a conspiracy to murder 3000 Americans.

[lfairban]

6. They couldn't have know 3000 would be killed.

I started believing in LIHOP a lot more when I saw a documentary on the reason the twin towers collapsed. I had heard reports that OBL was surprised to hear that the towers collapsed, but the documentary led me to think no one could have predicted it.

I still see it as a form of speculation, but speculation that is not wholly without support. What if they only thought it would be about 500 people?

[Gman]

7. They didn't know 9/11 would happen exactly like it did, but

they knew some kind of terrorist attack was coming and they WANTED a terrorist attack so that they would have a reason to get the goals of PNAC in motion. In that respect it was LIHOP.

Don't forget they stole an election for the President of the United States. That means they are capable of literally anything.

[DUreader]

10. They knew 'terra-ists' would fly planes into buildings

G8 july 01

[pansypoo53219]

24. i don't believe the chimp read any of those warnings.

it was cheney who REALLY let it happen.

[LARED]

8. Still not buying it

3000 or 500, I don't believe the Bush administration is willing or capable of planning such a thing.

A small but important fact that gets brushed aside to easily is there is no objective evidence that points to the Bush administration willingness to let happen or culpability in the events of 9/11.

There is a huge difference between not connecting the intelligence dots and LIHOP or MIHOP.

[Demobrat]

11. They didn't plan it.

They just didn't stop it.

[leesa]

21. There is a great deal of evidence, but you haven't read about it

Please go to the multitude of sites providing evidence, read it and THEN come back with your opinion.

[LARED]

34. I have read

I have far more than a passing interest in this. I have spend many hours reading and researching the events of 9/11. Many of them at the DU '9/11' forum. I am what the conspiracy folks call an 'official story' advocate, a conspiracy theory debunker, a dis-info agent, a Bush butt boy and lots of other silliness.

No site. Let me repeat. That no site has ever posted any evidence that is verifiable, credible and accurate that proves this maladministration LIHOP or MIHOP. There is lots of misinformation, sophistry, speculation and a little circumstantial evidence that people believe proves something. But there ain't no smoking gun. Not even water pistol.

It is pure tin hattery at this point.

There is plenty of evidence that our intelligence organizations were asleep at the wheel. That is where the pressure should be applied for answers.

[qanda]

36. Lared, why are some of the 911 families leaning towards LIHOP

If no conspiracy took place? I don't have all the answer and I don't claim to, but I refuse to believe the "official" version of what took place on 911. Where are all the facts that what we've been told is true? It bother me greatly that there is no accountability in this administration and they are stonewalling their own investigation. Something just doesn't smell right.

[lfairban]

38. About 9/11 sites . . .

. . . you might find some valuable information in one of the links in my collection:

http://home.columbus.rr.com/lfairban/Pages/Liberal.htm#911

Newer links are here:
http://home.columbus.rr.com/lfairban/Pages/Newly%20Discovered%20Links.html#911

Newest 911 links are close to the top of New Links page.

[Military Brat]

60. Lared, you believe intel was asleep at the wheel

That's your basis for sidestepping the issue of LIHOP, because you just don't want to believe our "government" would recklessly endanger the citizens of this country. That's a nice outlook, but we're asleep at the wheel ourselves if we believe it. Of course the corrupt members of government would follow the dictates of LIHOP, so that they can stay in power and wield it to their benefit. That's what it's all about for them. Serving the people? Don't make me laugh. Don't make the mistake of projecting your values onto those people. Just because you wouldn't do something doesn't mean they would hesitate one second. It's a whole 'nother world in the White House.

It's disgusting to realize that those who hold the reins of power don't give a rat's patooie about us, but look at what they're doing to our air in the so-called Clear Skies Act (Clear Lies Act). Do you think bush cares about the projected increase for asthma in the children, or the respiratory problems that the elderly and immune-compromised will suffer? No way. Look at the EPA report following 9/11, and all those who worked at Ground Zero. Did bush care? Hell no. He's all lip, no service.

Plenty of evidence for LIHOP, if not direct evidence, when you consider the large body of evidence that bush and his gang care not one whit for American lives or safety, as long as they get what they want. So do I believe in LIHOP? Damn straight I do.

[LARED]

69. That's your basis for sidestepping the issue of LIHOP

No. My basis is that there is no credible evidence that points to LIHOP or MIHOP.

The intelligence failure is what needs to be investigated. It happened because our government was not doing its job. It is not me projecting my values onto those people. (although I cannot believe for a minute they are so corrupt that they would LIHOP or MIHOP).

Sorry, but if you believe they LIHOP or MIHOP without any real evidence you are projecting your own dislike (ubderstandable) for this administration.

[Rex]

61. I would love to believe the 'official story'

But sadly these are the same rat bastards that lied us into a war with Iraq. We all watched them do it, they made it pretty clear that they have no regards for human life.

[dflprincess]

30. I doubt they cared how many people died

Given the number of people who live and work in that area of Manhattan they're lucky it was "only" 3,000. They had to have though the casualties could be much much higher. I think Bush and his henchmen are to callous to have cared. They probably thought the more the better to put their plans into action.

[bobthedrummer]

62. Since the same company that handled the first WTC bombing

"repairs" is the same company that handled the clean-up of 9/11 I know "the company" is capable of anything. This is spookwar of religious proportions. Covert. Deep.

A lot of the pre-9/11 investigations should have prevented it-and the USAF has a lot of explaining to do about operations on 9/11.

What was that ISI guy doing with the $100,000 cash?

What were the bin-Ladens involved in, why did they recieve permission to take off for Saudi Arabia?

So many unanswered questions....

I'm convinced of LIHOP.

[Demobrat]

2. I believed in LIHOP the moment I turned on the TV

that morning and saw the second plane hit the towers. I believe in it even more strongly now, and I have always been one who believed that more than two people couldn't keep a secret. But you see, I don't think it was a matter of keeping a secret. It was just a matter of ignoring evidence. Much easier.

[neebob]

54. Me, too

Not necessarily from the moment I turned on the TV, but maybe the next day or the day after that. I think maybe they just underestimated the losses, but I don't think it would have made a difference. The Fraudministration will do ANYTHING to advance their agenda and stay in power. It amazes me that more people don't get that, given everything they've done and said in the last two years. They simply don't care about death and destruction, and this latest bunch of crap about a more peaceful world for our children proves it as far as I'm concerned. They're basically saying this is how it will be for the next 20 or 30 years. None of them have to worry about losing anyone they know, and I'd be willing to bet they're all much wealthier than they were two years ago.

Back to LIHOP, while I don't believe all the conspiracy theories, I have to ask why the hole in the Pentagon wasn't bigger and where's the plane. And where's the wreckage from Flight 93? Say what you will about tinfoil hats, but these are valid questions.

[impeach the gop]

3. They must have some type of manual for tyrrants

Just think of it as Federal Funded Mafia gang, only much more oppressive to more people world wide.

[FreakinDJ]

4. Not to beleive it is to.......

Beleive that biggest political coup just happened be accident

[Imajika]

5. Nope

I think LIHOP and MIHOP (among others) are the far lefts answer to the rightwing nuts claim that Clinton killed Vince Foster, dealt drugs in Arkansas and ordered Ron Brown's plane be sabataged.

Not only are all these things flat out silly in my opinion, anyone who expouses them looks foolish and actually drives voters away from their own political cause. Most average Americans do not want to be associated with nutty conspiracy theorists and theories that have exactly zero facts to back them up.

Imajika

[Gman]

9. It's too unpleasant for Americans to think about

Gotta get the kids to soccer practice by 4, meeting with the Financial Advisor at 5 and dinner at the Smith's at 8. Oh, and don't forget to stop by the dry cleaner's and pick up your suit for the party this weekend.

[rumguy]

12. a lot of us here don't necessarily buy into LIHOP

but we want our serious questions answered...there are indeed unansweraed questions from that event and our government is not looking into it...it is not...it's sad.

I believe more money was spent investigating the space shuttle break-up over Texas than investigating the security breaches that occurred on 9/11.

There are REAL questions to be answered.

Remember Payne Stewart when his plan drifted off course? They got jets up to his plan pronto and they even looked into it and saw the people passed out. And this was in the heartland.

[Gman]

17. Christ, they won't even investigate the outing of a CIA operative

by a White House employee.

[robcon]

13. LIHOP=tin foil theory

I haven't seen any evidence, except some indication that it COULD have happened. That's not good enough, except for people who are conspiracy theorists.

[Solomon]

47. MIHOP. And you also haven't seen any evidence which makes

Bin Laden or alqaeda responsible either.

[Basurero]

56. So you trust Bush?

For months after 9-11, Bush said he didn't know anything before hand. Then it was revealed that he knew a lot. Remember Condoleeza Rice stating they didn't think the hijackers would not be a "hijacking in the traditional sense?" The least they could have done is warn people. Why didn't Bush do that?

[ldf]

15. most average americans

aren't willing to even ask the questions, even though others have already asked them. they prefer to believe in the lie, versus having the guts to consider the possibility.

too many damned dots are connecting. but americans refuse to see it. so it is safe to brand all such talk as nutty, wacko conspiracies.

and besides, everything they see on fox and cnn backs up the lie.......

[frylock]

16. i'd rather be labeled a conspiracy nut..

than a coincidence nut!! What facts do you have that UBL was responsible for 911, besides "Fat Osama" mugging for the camera, and ramming his hand into his palm? Spend some time to read through this, and you tell me who the nuts are.

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/index.html

More good stuff from the Army on planning for such an event, almost a year before the 911 attacks. This despite the fact that we could never have foreseen anything like this happening.



Washington, D.C., Nov. 3, 2000 — The fire and smoke from the downed passenger aircraft billows from the Pentagon courtyard. Defense Protective Services Police seal the crash sight. Army medics, nurses and doctors scramble to organize aid. An Arlington Fire Department chief dispatches his equipment to the affected areas.




A plane crash is simulated inside the cardboard courtyard of a surprisingly realistic-looking model Pentagon. This "tabletop" exercise was designed to help emergency relief personnel better prepare for disasters when they occur.

http://www.mdw.army.mil/news/Contingency_Planning.html

[zbdent]

19. Not entirely true . . . they wanted something to happen which would

bring about a war on "terror" to grab their power.

They just were surprised at the scope of what happened when the players were set free.

I was listening to a potential right-wing sorta in-law this afternoon. This guy was saying that an Iraqi (former?) national was telling him that Bush's plan was to take on Iraq as starting place for establishing a "democracy" in the Middle East. Essentially, "stop trafficking" with dictatorships.

"The silent majority of the Iraqis are sitting back, it's Saddam's people who want to run the US soldiers out." was the essence of one of this Iraqi's statements. (Now, I did hear this third-hand, but . . .).

The relator of this story was agreeing that "Clinton dropped the ball" when "Osama was known to be boarding a jet, and the military could have shot him down if Clinton said to, but Clinton let him go." Classical RW propaganda.

I feel sorry for him. Actually, my future nephew-in-law, who is going into the Guard in some way, shape or form, and probably will be called up for this "war on terror". I just don't want my niece to become a widow.

[bobthedrummer]

68. This argument conveniently ignores the fact of no Saddam-OBL association

and that there are no WMD's. Bush lied, Blair weighed in with lies too.

The fact is Saddam's Sunni cohorts in Baath Party were enemies of fundamentalist Islam fanaticism.

[leesa]

22. But you haven't read the documentation. Just assumed it is payback

There is FAR more evidence that this administration was involved in 9-11 than their is any evidence that OBL was involved. What exactly is flat out silly. You say these things but you never back it up.

[Q]

33. I'm shocked that there are still DUers...

...who haven't looked at all the evidence. Calling it 'silly' shows that you haven't taken the time to do the research.

- There are so many 'facts' available that one wonders how you couldn't have seen them.

[Ksec]

14. the more I look at this

the more Im believing they LIHOP. Maybe they didnt know specifics like time and place, but they knew it was coming. The thing that convinced me is the fact that they grounded all those bigwigs the day before this happened. Thats an incredible fact. As far as I have seen this is true..damning stuff

[HawkerHurricane]

18. Never attribute to malice

What can be explained by stupidity.

Or incompetence, for that matter.

[leesa]

25. Then why no investigation or disciplinary action??

Why were people involved in obstructing investigation or covering up information rewarded?

Stupidity, incompetence would need to be investigated and discipline would occur, would it not?

The big questions are so easy to answer, yet no one will answer them. Why no air defense? Why no activation of emergency defense? Why no action on warnings given to us by many nations...Germany, France, Cuba, Israel, Britain, the CIA, etc...

Why have both Bush and Cheney PERSONALLY obstructed the investigation into the crime of 9-11??

Yes, they are stupid and incompetent, but it doesn't explain any of this and the hundreds of other peculiarities.

[HawkerHurricane]

31. simple;

They are hiding thier own stupidity and incompetence.
Remember, being made to look stupid and incompetent will cost them the election just as much as being blamed for allowing it to happen.

[Darranar]

42. Yep...

that's my view as well.

[Ress1]

44. Agreed.

*

[rman]

53. how is this incompetence:

FBI suspects financial ties between SA royalty and terrorists
FBI asks to investigate
The government says no

Is that who ever said "no" actually meant to say "yes"?
Can the incompetence be traced to limited mastery of the English language, or speech impairment?

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=03/08/22/1529206&mode=thread&tid=29#transcript
http://cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/main/timelinebefore911.html

[HawkerHurricane]

65. I call it stupidity (or maybe greed)

Bushco has sweet deals with the Saudi royals.
Saudi royals get pissed off if they find out FBI (now controlled by Bushco) is investigating.
Therefore, shut down the investigation. Not because they know there is something to find, but out of fear of losing money.

[durutti]

20. Drudge

Now there's a reliable source.

[leesa]

26. Boy, lots of visitors from the dark side lately

Either they are simply too naive yet to understand what this cabal is all about (unbelievably enough), or they are on a different mission.

[sangh0]

58. If you don't like Drudge, how about the NY Times

"`The president of the United States is AWOL, and we're with him. The ultimate road trip.' "

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/28/international/middleeast/28MEDI.html

[number6]

23. yes, LIHOP ++

.. :smoke: :freak:

[Ksec]

41. can someone tell me if they grounded those bigshots and why?

Ive heard this and if someone can explain why they did this ?

[SheilaT]

27. I think the administration

(or someone high enough up, probably not W) had somehow let the word get back to Osama & Co that some kind of event was okay. I think the expectation was that someone would set off a car bomb at the State Department, or maybe something on the Mall, and then we would have a very convenient excuse to do whatever we wanted in the name of tracking down the terrorists.

But they were completely astonished by the magnitude of what really happened.

Remember how right around the time AA 77 crashed into the Pentagon, all the networks were reporting that a car bomb had gone off at the State Department, and there were multiple small fires on the Mall. I recall being frustrated and yelling at the TV because I could not understand why they'd be reporting these things and not showing us the footage showing what had happened. Turns out they didn't happen at all. I've never ever heard any kind of explanation for those reports.

My theory? They were planted, perhaps ahead of time, because that's what was "approved", and once something happened that morning, those reports were released anyway, even though they absolutely weren't true.

The end result was that some 3000 people died, but it didn't matter because Bush and his people got the green light to do everything they ever wanted, and that continues through to today.

[number6]

28. interesting

:think:

[grannylib]

29. Any transcripts or tape available of those reports? I agree, this is

interesting...I was at work that day and stuck in a training room, so I was really out of the loop until I got home that night...

[Solomon]

48. I remember several reports that day one of which in particular

strikes me and that is they repeatedly broadcast early on that a truck bomb or something like that blew up at the pentagon.

[kalian]

32. Secrecy is paramount for this administration....

It should send shivers down people's spines thinking that this
"president" can fly around the globe without ANYBODY knowing about
it.

But then again...I always have believed that there was never any
spoon. :)

On edit: was Bush REALLY in Iraq...? Where those REALLY US
soldiers...? :shrug:

[maggrwaggr]

35. Yes it's funny how everyone swallows that Bush was in Iraq

without one iota of proof. You never see him outside of that building, that room. No footage of the plane landing or taking off. Nada. Hell, the whole thing could be tape from a month ago.

It amazes me how everyone just accepts what they are told.

Why? Because we're conditioned to trust the media. Big mistake.

[qanda]

39. It's funny how we swallow everything we're told

What's more farfetched than the official version of 911. Hollywood couldn't write a more unbelievable script. Yet, the American people eat it up (without so much as a question) like it's the most believable story of all time. I guess fear does strange things to people.

[Military Brat]

66. One DU'er recognized his nephew in the video footage

So, unless his nephew was flown to another location for that crass photo-op, then bush was actually in Iraq.

bush looked like crap. I think he should have stayed in Iraq and rested for a couple days.

Edited to put duct tape over my free-speech mouth.

[milkyway]

37. Terrorism replaced Communism

During the Cold War, the U.S. used fighting Communism to justify its actions. A common saying on the Left was "If Communism didn't exist, the U.S. would have to invent it." How convenient that as soon as the Soviet Union fell apart, Islamic terrorism stepped up to take its place, led by former employees of the BFEE.

The absolute best you can say about the Bush regime and 9/11 is that they should be on trial for criminally negligent homicide. I believe it was LIHOP. When it became abundantly clear that a terrorist strike on U.S. soil was imminent, Bush probably asked Cheney, "Would that be a good thing or a bad thing?"

[newyawker99]

51. Hi milkyway!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[tom_paine]

64. And Cheney undoubtedly countered. "A Good Thing."

Look at all the political power and money the Busheviks have gained from many sources because of 9-11.

From a compliant (and anthraxed) Democratic Party to access to amounts of borrowed Treasury Money, gouged and kickbacked and payoffed to donors to the rich stolen booty of Iraq.

[LastTime2BeFree]

40. Nope.

No more than Clinton and OKC or Waco LIHOP. Those dwelling on LIHOP are doomed to muddy thought and scapegoating.

[Solomon]

50. Judging from your post, you've already missed your

"lasttime2befree". Keep sucking on the official story.

[chelaque liberal]

43. I feel sill asking but I'm new to DU

What does LIHOP stand for?

[qanda]

45. Don't feel silly...

I apologize for not spelling it out. I forget that there are new people here. It stands for Let It Happen On Purpose.

Welcome to DU!!!!!

[9215]

46. LIHOP=Let it happen on purpose

Welcome to DU. :toast:

[Solomon]

49. Lihop is let it happen on purpose.

Mihop is made it happen on purpose.

[newyawker99]

52. Hi chelaque liberal!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[ElsewheresDaughter]

55. YES and my feet are hanging over the edge into the MIHOP circle.....

the only reason he made this trip was because he didn't want to be shaned or upped one by Senator Clintons spending Thankgiving in Iraq with the troops...and that's the true and only story folks!

[Tinoire]

57. Of course not. Buch Inc is too pure, too compassionate to go along

with such an obscenity :eyes: He's a compassionate conservative after all.

But seriously, you either value human life or you don't.

Does anyone really think, in the words of Paris, that a few thousand lives mean shit to killers?

[sangh0]

59. "The president of the United States is AWOL, and we're with him."

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/28/international/middleeast/28MEDI.html

[Unknown Known]

63. LIHOP people are still in denial

You still cannot bring yourselves to believe that YOUR govt would do such a horrific thing to its own people. You have not yet made that next step to MIHOP. What is holding you back?

I have long passed the denial stage because this corruption in our government is nothing new - it goes back a long way. But it's not just this country - it's all over. One thing I've learned from reading history is that economics rules and the rich will forever be in war with the rest of us.

It's about rich vs poor - nothing else.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

67. DING DING DING DING Unknown Known!...you got it!