Democrats need to understand why Bush* is so 'popular'.

[Q]

- Many Republicans still love the memory of Nixon and hate Democrats for 'forcing' him out of office. Most Republicans still love Reagan and don't care that he sold TOW, HAWK and chemical/biological weapons to Iran and Iraq. They love Bush* for the same reasons they love Nixon and Reagan. Democrats and others on the left have a difficult time understanding this type of 'love' for those who obviously don't have their best interests in mind.

- Republicans don't really care that Bush* deserted his post during the Vietnam war or that he was a drunken sod and abusive husband and father for a good portion of his life. They don't care that he was involved in insider trading or had business relationships with the Saudi royal and bin Laden families. They don't care that he cheated to become 'president' or did nothing to prevent the 9-11 attack even though he had prior knowledge. They don't care that he formed a 'shadow government' and has the most secretive executive branch in US history. They don't care that he hid the presidential papers of Reagan and his Poppy and the national energy documents. They don't care that he's obstructing the 9-11 investigation.

- The Right loves Bush* for a few very simplistic reasons: He acts like a 'God-fearing' man and hates the Left with a passion. They love the image he projects (or the image the media projects for him): a man who may not be very 'intelligent' but 'means what he says and says what he means'. Being wrong most of the time means nothing to his loyal followers.

- Democrats will be opposing an IMAGE more than a person in the 2004 election. It's an image created by a corporate media and teams of public relation experts who care nothing about the truth. They think of Bush* as a product and will push a 'new and improved' version of him in 2004.

- How can Democrats run a successful campaign against a product...an image instead of a person? The bitter reality is that they can't...unless they're willing to show how that product is flawed and overpriced and that the image is manufactured by his supporters.

[Mari333]

1. Only brain dead people will fall for this moron

and grab any citizen in MY town on the street and more then half cant read above 9th grade, or even 5th grade level..combine this with a culture that lives off sound bytes and a media dedicated to corporate whoring for * and this is what we get.
I have decided to completely eliminate all relationships with anyone in my family who voted or will vote for the son of a bitch. That includes any acquaintances I might have, they are officially eliminated from my life for good.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[remfan]

28. I don't think the hostility is unfounded at all

bush IS the leader of the radical right and whether or not he engages in the rhetoric himself is not the point, as the headcheese of the GOP he is the radical right's silent cheerleader.

A vote for bush IS the same as saying you approve of the radical right's tactics AND their agenda. A vote for bush is a vote for Ann Coulter. A vote for bush is a vote for Tom DeLay. A vote for bush is a vote for Ralph Reed, Roy Moore, Fred Phelps, it's a vote for every right wing radical nutjob in the country. It's a PACKAGE deal. A package that is too dangerous to the welfare of the nation for us to take it lightly.

[Q]

5. But enough people will vote for him in 2004...

...to make it another 'close race'. I don't need to tell you what the Bushies are capable of doing in a close race.

- The media and Bush's* taxpayer funded PR teams have created an image that will be almost impossible to defeat. At the same time...they have made sure any negative story about Bush* never hits the front page or is labeled as a 'conspiracy theory'.

- This is an unbeatable combination...if the Democrats can't turn it around and start chipping away at this image of Bush* 'the honest man and great leader'.

[booley]

58. I hate to say this

But I think it will be a "close race" whether a lot of people vote for Bush or not.

I really hope I am wrong on that, btw...

[opihimoimoi]

18. The core pubs you speak of comes from about 14 to 18 % of the population

the dems have a similar %. The rest are too young, not registered, in prison, and or incapacitaded somehow.

The Dems have their work cut out for sure but its not impossible.

The success will not be dependent on one man, the magic bullet candidate, to sweep the nation off its feet. Not even Kennedy did that having won by the squeakiest of margins over Nixon. No, it will be because the DNC gets its ass off the floor and finally does something called think clearly.

They are somewhat stymied because of the ongoing debates and upcoming primaries but this will soon pass. And it is a neccessary process. Then we can all get behind the person and move forward.

The DNC would do itself proud by finding ways to really energize the campaign, to organize/inform the grass roots, and think of stategies to counter the Pubs approach/style.

They should have a 5 man team on the Boards of this sort monitoring for ideas/concepts/notions/nuggets/suggestions.

Remember what Pres Clinton remarked: Strong and Wrong will beat Right and Weak.

I say Strong and Wrong will be defeated by RIGHT AND STRONGER.

We have the truth, the ideas, the Common Good, Reason, and Sanity on our side. Not enough/ We need more, much more. The DNC should be looking/searching

Come, we go eat/drink/sing

[Q]

19. It's not 'impossible'...

...but it's going to be difficult when the 'truth' is being controlled by the other side.

- There will be no 'magic bullet' candidate. A popular Democrat won't be enough unless the Party get's behind him and in concert breaks through the strong 'image' being created FOR Bush* by a 'patriotic' media.

- Bush* can use war, fear and patriotism in the 2004 campaign ONLY because Americans don't know the whole truth about him and his corruption admin.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

30. You should be telling them about Bush and all of the problems he's

caused from his imbecilic policies and actions. I've converted quite a few Pubs to the Clark or Dem side and at the very least I've gotten a bunch of them thinking. I look upon it as a "mission."

I'm surprised that most of them don't seem to get too angry. If you keep it about facts and don't get emotional it can actually not be that bad.

Of course, I'm involved in launching a group that calls itself "Republicans, Independents and Democrats against Bush" - so I've been dealing lately with a Bunch of Republicans who hate Bush even more than I do. They're pissed at what he's done to their party. They can go on a rant that makes the whole lot of US look like a bunch of Bush-lovers.

[eleny]

36. Mari, havnig read what you've gone through recently

I don't blame you a bit. I'm finding very little reason to bother keeping in touch with Repub friends I've known for decades. I no longer have the stomach for small talk and friendly persuasion that gets nowhere. There's simply too much at stake. They have to understand that relationships have become a moral issue in these times.

The way I figure it, we could perhaps start to choke off the finances of our so called "enemies" without resorting to war. But that would mean that all Americans would have to change some things about our way of life. The way we drive, the way we keep ourselves warm, the products we purchase that rely on petroleum. You get my drift. It galls me that we as a people would rather that others, the young people, be sacrficed to maintain a certain excessive way of life. That war is the only answer is unacceptable. So, those who choose to embrace and vote for that solution simply can't be a part of my life. Maybe if they have to face even this minor rejection in their vastly ignorant lives, they'll wake up a little. For my part, I can't stomach talking to them any more, so I just don't.

[October]

42. I completely understand

My mother and I recently had a heated telephone discussion. She's become so horribly opinionated these last few years. (It's like with shrub in office they're all emboldened to give voice to their hypocrisy and bigotry.) Anyway, nowadays my mother can't even talk to me without finding a way to mention Fox News, O'Reilly, *, Tony Snow, etc. So, recently I decided I would fight back. Ordinarily, I would just change the subject and keep thing superficial. It wasn't easy. I had to talk louder than her, talk over her, disagree with her -- and it was getting emotional. Do you know how she handled it? She hung up on me. Unbelievable. When she called back, I didn't pick up. Instead, she left a phone message with a half-ass apology. She ended the message by saying I was just too far left for her. Corporations aren't to blame for everything. All repubs are not bad, etc., etc.

:puke:

Since she doesn't listen to me -- and doesn't make room for my opinions (never has), I wrote a lengthy email. I told her off. It's the only way she can't interrupt! Damn if that didn't feel good. Anyway...

I host the annual family Christmas gathering and I'm not looking forward to it this year. I cannot believe these relatives of mine -- including my mother -- would vote for *. They are ardent supporters too. I just cannot believe they'd vote for the guy who would send my children off to war. How can they even look at me?

All of these relatives, btw, never had to face war. They were born in the 40's. WWII was over. They would be too young for Korea and just miss Vietnam. They're your typical flag-waving dittoheads. Honestly, I don't know if my husband and I will be able to keep a civil tongue this year.

Sorry to be so long here...but there's one more thing.

My relatives benefitted from a middle class lifestyle because of unions -- not the "generosity" of corporate America. My mother is on disability, and she takes care of her mother who is on social security and medicare.

[Yupster]

66. Don't let politics

get you estranged from your mother. I went to a funeral today. Life's too short and family's too dear.

Tell her about her grandkids. That's what she wants to know about anyway.

[October]

74. Thanks for the message

Quick background. My mother was never a "mother" to me, so it has always been me doing all the work keeping/developing a relationship with her -- even on a superficial level. She was a young, immature girl of a woman, and not even a little bit interested in mothering/me. (My father left, and I'm pretty sure he was the first-ever "deadbeat dad." If not for my grandparents...I don't know where we'd have wound up.)

You're right -- 98% of our conversations are about the grandkids; it's the only safe topic.

Please know I appreciate and value your perspective, and I'm sorry for your recent loss.

[PaDUer]

71. Is your mother

named Pauline? Tell me there's more of them around like this one!

[October]

75. Not Pauline.

But we were in PA.

[Oberst Klink]

2. You are correct

however, I don't think you understand repubs either.

You have to approach your subject of study, be it a person or whatever, with kind and loving eyes to reach a true understanding. Outside of that, whatever conclusions you reach will merely be reflections of your soul and not of your target subject.

It's almost like you have to be a Nazi to understand a Nazi.

And, you are correct. You have to understand your opponent to defeat him. That is why Neo-cons are beating the tar our of us. They are, for the most part, former liberals.

[Q]

8. Nixon and Reagan provide a 'study' in how Republicans...

...view their leadership. Reagan had one of the most corrupt administrations in US history...yet you'll be hard-pressed to find a Republican that doesn't love the 'Gipper'.

- You don't have to be a Nazi to 'understand' a Nazi. You can make a judgment by looking at the larger picture and see that Nazis supported Hitler no matter what he did.

- Many on the Left understand that the image being manufactured around Bush* is a lie. But the question seems to be what to do about it and how to break through the charade.

[ulysses]

3. the candidate as product

The Democratic power structure understands this - they've been doing the same thing. The problem is that, in the absence of a Bill Clinton, the Pukes do it a lot better, if only because the naked appeal of the right wing agenda lends itself much more to that kind of campaign.

[kodi]

6. most of bush's supporters either are ignorant or are rank opportunists

its well pointed out that the first sort dont care about the facts, nor tend to have an intelligent, realistic world view. those who are both intelligent and informed dont care about anybody but themselves and use a patina of a small government libertarian philosophy to mask it.

there is no cogent philosophy on the right today. its a grab bag of social darwinism, hobbes, and consumerist christianity used as a figleaf to hide their whoring ways.

liberals will not change the way these people think and act.

the only way to beat them is to outnumber them.

[Oberst Klink]

7. But the only way to increase numbers

is to appeal to the middle, which is by definition, the stupid.

[cspiguy]

10. no -the uninformed - see #9

n/t

[Q]

11. The 'middle' isn't 'stupid...they're...

...intentionally kept uninfomed. They'll be shown Bush's* trip to Iraq to 'cheer' the troops...but have never been told that he deserted the Guard during Vietnam or his obstruction of the 9-11 investigation.

- It's called 'perception management'.

[cspiguy]

9. most of ANYBODY's supporters are ignorant.

That's why people like us have to have a clear message and get it out. What is ours today? Dean? We need an easy to sell - positive - message. What is it? I can think of 55 negative ones. That only gets us 38%-42%

[bearfartinthewoods]

27. people like us

please don't take this condecending attitude out with you, in public.

[Q]

12. But...Democrats 'outnumbered them' in 2000...

...so that kind of negates your theory of the most numbers prevail.

[kodi]

25. it "kind of negates" nothing. you and i understand the electorial college

and federalism are designed to negate popular democracy, not enhance it.

Q, i am surprised you would even try to throw that weak-ass gorilla dust into this discussion.

i hope it was sarcasm

[indepat]

13. One reason he is so popular is he says all the right things, does the op-

posite, and the media fails to call his hand, fails to point out the inconsistencies between his words and his actions, fails to point out the consequences of his actions and policies.

[Q]

16. That's part of the 'image' being created by the media...

...that most of the time tells only half of the story.

- In order to whip Bush's* ass...it's up to us to tell the rest of the story.

[Cocoa]

14. Wes Clark has a good explanation for Bush love

he says people love him because of how he overcame his drinking problem.

[Q]

15. But did Bush* 'overcome' his drinking problem...

...or did the media overcome it for him?

[TorchTheWitch]

26. huh?

Wes Clark has a good explanation for Bush love - he says people love him because of how he overcame his drinking problem.

Except that Clark never said that. That's either a spin worthy of FAUX, or you have no idea what he did say nor any clue as to why.

[Cocoa]

31. what's your version of what he said?

If I got it wrong, I got it wrong, I don't care, it wasn't on purpose, that's what I thought he said.

What did you make of what he said about Bush's drinking days?

[Demobrat]

46. That's what I thought he said too.

For what it's worth.

[maddezmom]

73. they love what he represents.....

<<"They love what he represents, a man who's overcome adversity in his life from alcoholism and pulled his marriage back together and moved forward," added Clark.>>

http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/11659.htm

not sure Wes is convinced he has overcome the bottle.

[Q]

17. There have been many products on the market...

...over the last few decades that later were proven to be harmful to consumers. Those who produced them KNEW they could be harmful...but were able to keep their knowledge secret until they were able to make enough profit to pay for the lawsuits.

- Bush* is being sold in the same way. The 'image-makers' know his policies are harmful to America...but their only job is to make sure as many as possible BUY the product.

[opihimoimoi]

20. WE lack a PLAN. For the want of a good PLAN, the election was......

WE all know the story, "For the want of a nail, the shoe was lost....

The DNC gatta get cracking.......

Where is a Plan???

Where is the GAME PLAN?

[lindashaw]

21. This is true, and the way we combat it is by taking a BABY STEP.

Everyone on this board should become a worker in their local precinct.

No one lives in a worse Republican County than I do, deep in the heart of Texas. I find my Democratic party is nearly dead. So I have become a precinct chair. I got a list of everyone who had voted Democrat from Austin headquarters, and I am contacting every single one.

We have enough people in our party to win if we can get revive them. Remember what Lady Galadriel told Frodo in Lord of the Rings: "Even the smallest person can change the course of the future."

We have to look upon this conflict as war against the Dark Forces. We can't sit around here and weep about our weaknesses.

I challenge everyone to take a BABY STEP. BABY STEPS are the way we triumph!

[Q]

24. I agree....

...that we all need to participate in Democracy or be witness to its downfall.

- But one of the problems we face is that the media controls the truth and the Bushies control the media. We should keep in mind what the Right was able to do to Clinton and Gore with a simple manipulation of the truth.

[JNelson6563]

32. Bravo Linda!!

I too found my local Dem party (tho' they were nearly invisible) and jumped in.

Did some great fundraising work for 'em and got elected to board and to Chair membership lickety-split. Have since doubled membership and raised thousands of $$ and have only been on board since June.

Kickin' ass and takin' names in northern Michigan--

Julie

[cthrumatrix]

22. bush is a "corporate puppet" pushing an agenda you have no

idea where it will lead...needless to say...people are not a top priority unless you have given $1000's to his campaign

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

23. Instant gratification - "decisive" leaders

Americans seek instant gratification. They don't like to wait or ponder their choices. A sort of "just DO something" now mentality. Thus, the response to 9/11 is to attack Iraq which had nothing to do with the tragedy. The perception is that "something" has been done and Bush is seen as "decisive". All that has been needed is to decorate the "decision" with flagwaving, "support our troops", "God Bless America", and "Bring 'em on." Then call the critics and questioners unpatriotic and wavering.

It is perception versus reality. The perception is that Bush is being decisive, unwavering, that he is "doing something".

The reality is that the war has accomplished nothing to fight terrorism. In fact it has been counterproductive.

What our candidate must do is raise the level of the reality to that of perception. That can't be done by appearing to be indecisive and unsure. This is the problem for the senators who voted for the war. "Well, we don't support everything that Bush did, but...." just doesn't cut it.

If we are to have any chance of sending Bush back to Texas to be Emperor of Crawford, is to select a candidate that will be able to point out clearly the reality of the BushCorp.

Not only Iraq, but the reality of what he and his corporate pals are doing to the detriment of the average citizen. The tax breaks for the rich; the rape of the environment; the installation of a semi-theocratic government; the diminution of the rights of minorities and women; the loss of jobs; the class war being waged against the middle and lower classes; etc., etc.

In other words, we have the issues. They need to be brought firmly and "decisively" to the American voters. Tip toing around the issues, playing to the "middle" with "me too" murmurings will be counterproductive. Gore tried to be everything to everybody, and that's what lost the country to the tender mercies of the corporations and Bush.

The time for tiptoing and kissing babies is over.

[CWebster]

29. It don't help matters when Democrats knowingly or through osmosis

adopt the manufactured consent.

[Snellius]

33. They love Bush because they hate us

And Bush is everything we are not. We're hippies and hedonists, Blacks and Chicanos and Jews and aliens who breed like flies. We're elitists and snobs and arrogant professors who think everyone's stupid and we are the only ones who know it all. We're communists and terrorists. We're atheists and baby-killers. We're weak and spineless and bleeding-heart do-gooders who steal hard-earned wages and tax it away to lazy welfare cheats and illegals and all those "other people" who do not belong.

Bush's genius is to draw out the very worst instincts in the American character and to cynically turn them into god-given virtues. Fear is strength, neglect is compassion, greed is charity, selfishness is kindness, ignorance is wisdom, war is peace.

[Abies]

35. Thank You

Snellius,

I think you nailed it and I hope that others see your post. The last two lines ought to be bronzed somewhere on this website for all to see.

RC

[newyawker99]

57. Hi rampaging_cynic!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Q]

37. I mentioned this in my original post...

...but probably didn't explore it enough. Bush* uses God and hate to his advantage. That's part of the 'package' the media tries to sell.

- Here's the formula: If Bush* 'loves' God and hates Liberals...then liberals must hate God and Bush.

[Snellius]

39. It's true.

Bush's speeches are sort of like watching FOX. They're full of passing innuendos and secret code language that only the true-believers pick up. The most insidious recently is the way he always concludes with "Freedom is not given by men. Freedom is a gift from God." The phrase almost gets lost but, for those tuned in, it's obvious this is a Rove tactic to turn his Iraq fiasco, the war on terrorism -- his presidency -- into a missionary holy crusade.

[Tellurian]

41. Crusade is a big no-no...

Crusade is a wonderful word. All by itself it becomes an anomoly in an opposition campaign. Can we afford a Religious Crusade? History says otherwise.

[teryang]

44. Night is day!

I was talking to a conservative retired Army senior NCO last night.

He has several years middle east experience and knows Iraq is a fool's errand. "We cannot win there the way people think. It isn't like post WWII occupations and will never be." "They will not stop killing 'us' until we leave." "We don't even have enough troops to maintain our current force levels." "There are bombings taking place currently in the middle east that are related to assassinations that took place thirty years ago." "You don't win vendettas in the middle east." He thinks we should get our troops out ASAP. He wants his daughter to join the Air Force (not the Army).

But he doesn't find fault with the administration or Bush for this! "The American "people" have the wrong ideas about Iraq. They don't understand the middle east or Islamic culture. "

The president has been poorly advised by people who don't understand the middle east! Ths solution isn't to get rid of Bush and his ilk, it is to convince the American people how things in the middle east operate so they will get the administration to pull our troops out of Iraq. Misguided but well intentioned Americans are misleading the administration behind the scenes.

He was proud of his cookie cutter all white community (virtually no crime) and the fact that it was run like a police state by the local government. He uppermost personal concern was law and order and the safety and security of his children. He loved Mystic River even though he hated the actor's political views and it deeply affected him.

[Tellurian]

48. Except that...

As he claims it's not Bush's fault but that of his advisors.

How many times has Bush replaced The Joint Chiefs?

Three/four times-maybe five times?

Why? Until he found military "yes" men willing to implement the "do as I say" principle; simultaneously creating scape goats for any failures resulting from those decisions.

As your friend has so deftly demonstrated.

A twofer oner.

[Snellius]

51. The trouble with your friend's faith is that Bush DOES understand

He could make the argument that Bush was simply misguided and naive back when he declared "misson accomplished" last May, but at this point, especially after his recent turkey trot, he has recommitted to Iraq with full knowledge of past misunderstandings, blunders and mistakes. This is a new war in a way. The original lies and excuses are no longer valid. Your friend obviously realized that Bush has gotten himself into an inextricable trap, but he doesn't seem to realize that Bush's own ego and ideology make it impossible for him to get out.

[teryang]

65. Good comments

I agree with you. I think 911 and the war was a cynical plot from the get go. Bush isn't misguided, they know exactly what they are doing. But that isn't my point. This voter is an archetype.

I'm just putting his views out there. I'm trying to show him as an individual who is committed by his interests and his military background as a Republican. It is interesting how he tries to harmonize what he objectively knows and can't deny is a woefully wrong headed policy with his subjective commitment to the conservative perspective. There is an interesting tension between his Army perpective and the conservative mindset that makes him receptive to criticism of the administration WHEN IT COMES FROM ANOTHER WITH A PROFESSIONAL MILITARY BACKGROUND. Men like these and there are many, are still on the government payroll and get free medical care, they aren't persuaded by social issues.

I think a man like this would feel comfortable voting for Wesley Clark.

[poskonig]

34. Bush isn't popular.

Sure, the far right loves Bush, but they'll love any *Republican*, as Enron Arnold illustrates.

[Tellurian]

38. Has Anyone seen or read this?

Reconfirming my hypothesis of why Bush and the RW do not care what people say or think about them..

The 04' election is in the proverbial bag...

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/nov2003/warn-n27.shtml

[Tellurian]

40. Demos are a day late and a dime short!

For once it would be inspiring for the democratic party to be ahead of the learning curve. There is enough evidence of laws broken by this administration reaching the criteria of HCand M to begin Impeachment proceedings. Impeachment should be the nexus of the 04'campaign.

[leesa]

43. Because the US media tells us he is 24/7

[sangh0]

45. Q, I am asimply amazed!!!

You seem to have found a way to point to the problem in a way that doesn't ignore the ineffectiveness of the Dems opposition while concentrating on an important problem we face. Not only that, but you also are headed (IMO) in the right direction as far as what we need to do about this. (ie "It is in our hands")

Congratulations, and I hope you continue in this vein. We need all the help we can get.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sangh0]

49. I'm sorry

Have we met?

[Tellurian]

60. Oopsey, are you one of the good guys?

sorry, if I offended anyone-

[ClassWarrior]

50. I still think...

...we need to call them the Party of Nixon. Maybe conservatives still love ol' Tricky Dick, but most people associate him with crime in public service.

[Lorien]

52. How? Fight fire with fire!

As Al Franken says; "we will win by being funny and attractive". Americans are sadly simple and shallow when it comes to voting for anyone; they vote for who they like. They vote for a drinking buddy. They vote for who they identify with. They vote for mojo. It really is that simple. Policy and past mean nothing to most of the voters out there. Some of us see dubya as a greedy, idiotic mean-spirited git, others see him as a simple but charistmatic "leader" who they can trust because he "speaks on their level" and "says what he means". Our candidate needs only to have enough mojo to be a "drinking buddy", enough anger to tap into the disatisfaction with the state of the country that many are feeling right now, and enough good policy to appeal to that smaller demographic that actually really cares about such things.

What else do we need to win? Action from US! It's all well and good to sit here and bitch amongst ourselves about the unfortunate erosion of all that was good in our world, but until EACH of us start writing as much to the media and our reps as we do to DU, nothing will change. Liberals have always rejected organization and unity-now is the time to change that. Speak now, or forever hold your (loss of) peace!!

[Scott Lee]

53. Goodness, this devotion sounds almost...ahem....Hitlerian

I've done so much reading on the Third Reich that I practically speak German by sheer immersion. Delving into all the eyewitness reports, newsreel footage and taped speeches from the angry little Bavarian, the overwhelming sentiment you pull from all of it is that, in his heyday, Adolf could do nothing that would have put off one of his doe-eyed followers even a slight bit. Every indiscretion, every quirk, every fit or personality liability was excused as irrelevent to a man who had a great mission. In fact the darker corners of his already dark spirit were even endearing to some.

Sound familiar?

His "volkischer" quality (folksy) was continually lauded. A simple, common man with a great task to do etc.

Sound familiar?

His "moral clarity", his devotion to his beliefs even in the face overwhelming factual evidence to the contrary, was idolized by his adoring herd.

Sound familiar?

I realize that us lefty types tend to poopoo too many connections to the extreme example of Adolf Hitler, but in all honesty - aren't they there? And growing?

And you can forget about dissuading any of the Bush Faithful. They are locked in. The best hope at this point is to work on the undecided, the swing voters, the disenchanted. We must simply overcome this guy's numbers with greater numbers. It will not happen any other way.

[teryang]

68. If the fuehrer only knew!

This is the typical mindset of the loyal party individual who is concerned that his views be accepted by the other conformists. It is characteristic of the totalitarian mass mind created by effective propaganda and indoctrination and works for communist dictatorship as well as that of fascists.

The only way to get rid of the fuehrer syndrome is to replace him with a more charismatic individual who provides the same sort of appeal for those who are simply unable to look at the world in anything other than a leadership dependent viewpoint.

[laura888]

54. We need to put ALL of our $ and energy into a PR campaign for...

...one candidate. Take out ads in major newspapers, the media.

The media is NOT going to cover candidates other than bush unless they are PAID.

let's decide NOW: clark or dean. And then act on getting Bush OUT.

[Q]

59. How about 'campaigning' for the Democratic party...

...and let ALL the candidates benefit?

- The Bushies and their RWing media are good at 'packaging' candidates. They're even better at defining the Left.

- Bush* is the product of a ruling class that will invest hundreds of millions of dollars to promote him in their media. But they expect a return on their investment in the form of government kickbacks and giveaways. Bush* is a valuable commodity in that he never disappoints those who sponsor him.

- Bush* is like the 'pet rock' of the marketing world. Worthless in form and function...but great for the investors.

[reachout]

55. I think it is also important to remember

that Americans want to like and respect their president. It doesn't matter how he gets into office, once he's there he becomes a national symbol and is tied to their image of the nation as a whole in most people's minds. People want to be proud of their nation and their leader.

It worked in Reagan's favor, it worked in Clinton's favor and now it is working in Bush's.

It will not be easy to overcome, but it can be done.

[sangh0]

56. I agree

There's a reason why Bush* polled at 93% shortly after 9/11, and it had nothing to do with the "leadership" he displayed on 9/11.

People WANT to like the pResident, particularly in times of national emergencies and disasters.

[Q]

72. But do they 'like' the president*...or the image of the president?

- The corporate media shows us the images of a 'great leader' doing 'great things'...like reading teleprompters in front of giant patriotic banners, acting like a fighter pilot on the deck of a carrier...and visiting troops in Iraq.

- These types of IMAGES sell the product. But this can work ONLY if the media doesn't tell the rest of the story about the product. They can't sell George as a great leader if they get into the details of 9-11...about how he sat in stunned silence with children as thousands died.

[jpgray]

61. Still, cracks can show in the facade

But as soon as the left jumps on those cracks, they are shrouded, I think. Bush will be loved no matter what we say, but he may yet become hated for the things he does to himself. It is only by an effort of will that someone can admire and respect his actions in office. I don't doubt a great many people are willing to do this, since many here are willing enough to do it with their own candidates on this side.

:)

[proud patriot]

62. By making it okay to laugh at him

:shrug: it just seems that all these repukes take themselves
just a little too seriously and need to be brought down
a notch . Humor does this very well . IMHO

[Ecotopian]

63. HOW TO BEAT BUSH!

Simply convince the Republicans that you agree with them and that the race is such a foregone conclusion that they need not bother to show up at the election. Now if only we can get the news to target the message exclusively to the right wing and no one else.

While with the Democrats, secretly wage an unrelenting "Get Out The Vote" effort and bring as many people to the polls as possible. It will also help if you tell people that if Bush is re-elected, we can pretty much kiss democracy goodbye. In this way their "mandate" will fizzle overnight in a landslide election. What would seal their fate would be a billion candle light vigils worldwide in solidarity against Bush to show just HOW MUCH the world HATES BUSH!

But DON't TELL THE REPUKES this!

[Dr Fate]

64. Q- I was thinking about this today- DEMS need to run against the MEDIA

NOT Bush, but the media.

If I ever get to talk to a candidate again (I breifly spoke w/Kerry at a rally) I am going to ask- "You do know that you are running against the MEDIA, not Bush, dont you??? Well, DONT YOU???"

[Q]

70. You're right...we must go after the media...

...as a means to get to the whole truth. We can easily demonstrate how they have been giving Bush* a free ride and helping him obstruct justice by refusing to do their jobs as 'investigative' reporters.

- The corporate media can be a 'image-maker' or an 'image-breaker'. They were in image-breaking mode when a Democrat was in office. Clinton's impeachment for an affair in the WH would have been impossible without the help of the media. The smears against Gore couldn't have happened if the media hadn't happily cooperated.

- Indeed...Democrats will be running against the media in 2004. A media that simply refuses to tell the truth about their opponent.

[Tellurian]

76. And the message should be...

Why hasn't anyone called for the Impeachment of the Bush/Cheny alliance?

y/n?

[MrPrax]

67. KIcked and valuable Information...

You have dissected Media better than a million po mo left pundits or a billion Atwaters or Roves...

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
A Mosh Pit All for You


How can Democrats run a successful campaign against a product?
This your's ...you invented it..you own it...

Why bother quoting facts and disputing fallacies?

If you suggest that Bush is a liar and quote your sources, plead with the 'record', cite GOP supporters of the gov't, international law , cajole 'opinion' from conservatives on what they think about criminals and the Reagan/Nixon government...

You get nothing but, at best, sympathetic testimonials from people who watch too much TV and, at worst, a babbling torrent of 'war on', 'America is', 'Freedom should..', 'Saddam was...'

A Product...little more and the best part about a name brand, you can buy a 'generic'


Let Freedom Ring...Let Freedom Ring...(so what if a Republican agreed)

[Q]

69. Watching CSPAN this morning...

...a caller got angry at another caller for trashing GWB's* service record. The caller said that George never went AWOL...then went on to spew some horsecrap that had no resemblance to the known record. The guy 'sounded' intelligent...but was either lying or hadn't ever been told the truth about George's record in the Air Guard. He ended up by saying that George's commander would have gone after him if the AWOL rumors were true.

- Bush*, as a product of the American media...never went AWOL to work on a political campaign or kept from flying because he failed to show up for a required physical/drug test. He may have heard this information...but dismissed it as a lie by the 'liberal media'.

- It's much easier to sell a product than a person. A person has flaws and makes mistakes. Bush's* very short visit to Iraq was little more than a promotion for a product...a means to further build an image perpetuated by the corporate media.