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59millionmorons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-03 08:58 AM
Original message
Thumbs up to George Bush on his visit to Iraq
Now if he will stop cutting Military benifits. Start going to some soldiers funerals. Allow cameras to see the bodies coming back from Iraq, and let us see how many people his lie's about WMD's has cost. Then I may have one iota of respect for him. It's like my Dad(who voted for Bush) said yesterday, this guy has turned into the photo opp president. Oh and yes my Dad will be voting for anybody but Bush.
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-03 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
1. ha ha, that lame trip is backfiring!
Edited on Fri Nov-28-03 09:27 AM by ima_sinnic
great bit about your dad :thumbsup:
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conservdem Donating Member (880 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-03 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #1
37. I doubt this will backfire. IMO it was a great move on his part.
I think it will play well with many people, and I hope it did boost the troops morale. I also think it took some guts to do this.

I suggest you ask yourself how you would feel if a Dem president had done the same thing.
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Sperk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-03 09:05 AM
Response to Original message
2. He could visit each and every family member and it wouldn't
make up for lying us into a war and causing thousands of unnecessary deaths. The man is EVIL.
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moosedog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-03 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. What !
How do you think he could have these photo ops, if he didn't have his big war and get richer to boot???
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peekaloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-03 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
3. yes
do you know what a :thumbsup: means in Iraq?

:evilgrin:
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BJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-03 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
4. Cowardly Lion.
Edited on Fri Nov-28-03 09:25 AM by BJ
Funny, isn't it, that a guy who tells the Iraqi resistance fighters to "bring it on!"; that the United States won't "cut and run" and "The United States of America will not be intimidated by a bunch of thugs," slinks into Baghdad. ABC Good Morning America described it as a "slealth visit."

Wouldn't a truly courageous pResident openly visit the troops his decision put in harms way?
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-03 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. cowardly lion
o
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xxqqqzme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-03 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #4
25. he was in his 'stealth' mode
on 9/11 also. At least the pattern is consistant.
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-03 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
5. Thumbs up?
For an campaign photo-opt and to suggest to those boys that they were there to fight the terrorists so that the terrorists wouldn't target the homeland?
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Vitruvius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-03 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #5
35. Thumbs up for Bu$h??? A different finger would be more appropriate
Edited on Sat Nov-29-03 09:08 AM by Vitruvius
for that chiseling cowardly AWOL chickenhawk.

(Upon edit) See also "Postman's" earlier post, below.
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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-03 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
6. I heard Hillary will be visiting the South Pole....
...karl better start making the "secret arrangements." No penguins will be told about the visit in advance. No parkas will be loaded on Air Force One.
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Nashyra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-03 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. It will backfire
Spent sometime watching the major broadcast and local news, not a 10th of the coverage that the "cable news" had. Also all this talk about shopping and how much more Americans will spend, at least 1/2 dozen times I have heard in the segment about shopping "that it is the High end shopping" that is increasing and will continue to increase. The lower economic portion is staying about the same. Local stations are not being overly optimistic and are not cheerleading for the * in light of his PR stunt. We need to keep doing what we are doing for all our own candidates because every postive thing we have to say about our own weakens the credibility of *. The top tier has got to stop attacking each other and acting like school kids. There is nothing wrong with arguing why you think your plan is better, in fact all the Dems plans are better than * but the more we knock each other the more ammo we give Rove. When you blantly knock another candidate to people you are trying to bring into the Dem fold what do think they are going to remember if that candidate is the nominee. We have a great chance let's not shoot ourselves in the foot with our own gun. IMHO
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liberalmuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-03 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
9. He is a coward.
2 hours? Long enough to give his ridiculous, 'thugs and assasins' speech and get some footage for his campaign commercials. I do think this will backfire, but then, I could be once again overestimating the intelligence of the American people. If somehow it does backfire, it means that more and more Americans are starting to catch on to the pretender.
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peekaloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-03 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. the GE Network featured the "reactions" of two soldiers
this a.m. on Boosh's stealth visit. One of the soldiers, in a very robotic manner, stated that the pResident "assured them we would win this war and give the Iraqis just what they deserve". :eyes:


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59millionmorons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-03 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Wait a minute
I thought bush already said mission was accomplished. Wasnt this soldier told?
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-03 06:53 AM
Response to Reply #11
33. "just what they deserve" : liberation and democracy, no doubt...
:eyes:
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Military Brat Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-03 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. "intelligence of the American people"?
liberalmuse, you are much too generous. I am beginning to suspect that half of the American people do not even have brain waves.
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Iverson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-03 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
10. thumbs up ... but where?
I recommend a position that would necessitate his walking using his elbows.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-03 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-03 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Nice try ...
Just what "purpose" has this war served?
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INTELBYTES Donating Member (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-03 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #15
27. If been afraid to agree with anyone on the purpose of the war myself...
I've seen how fast people get labeled "freeper" if they have anything positive to say about this war, or are pro-life. That is especially true if you have low posts. I think chimp is bad for this country in every way. But I have to agree that this war was necessary. I believe the U.N. is the way to go on resolving the worlds issues, but that is if they do their jobs. You can't deal with a bully by throwing resolutions at him. There were terrorist training camps found in Iraq. Even if you don't think these camps would have been used on American soil, I believe we should think globally, (not imperialistically). Sadaam was a thug and no one disagrees with that. The sooner chimp can accomplish this mission and get out the better. I don't want him setting his hooks on the oil while he is there. It's not the reason for him being there, but it may look too good to resist after a while.
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K8-EEE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-03 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. It Is Not Making Us Any Safer
I just don't understand the logic, we are fighting them there INSTEAD of here. As if Al Qeda can't (and indeed DOES) continue attacking at points all around the world, we are just wasting all our resources in one of the countries that posed the least danger.

Like Bill Maher said -- they act like Al Qeda is calling their district managers saying, "I'm sorry, we have to close the St. Louis office, all hands are needed on deck in Iraq!" It's bull.
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BigBigBigBear Donating Member (212 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-03 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Eeek
Actually, the UN always said they didn't know about WMD. Prior to 1998, there was a widespread belief that they were there, but little proof after 1998. The UN said it wanted to inspect, not go to war.

Once the inspectors were allowed back in, they found nothing. They were given more or less free reign over the country, and found nothing. They inspected 100's of sites.

Saddam was moving them around, said President Cheney. UN: No evidence of that.

Saddam had reconstituted his nuclear program, said President Cheney. UN: We're here, and no they haven't.

Saddam had rebuilt its main chemical facilitys, said President Cheney. UN: We're standing in front of the building, and it doesn't even have a roof.

Saddam's scientists will spill the beans, said President Cheney. Iarqi scientists: All WMD programs were shut down in 1998, because Saddam wanted the sanctions lifted and didn't want to give the West a pretext for war.

The list goes on. And on. And on.

As far as the DC 10, there is NO evidence any of the hijackers trained on anything there - we DO know they trained in Florida and Arizona. The Iraqis claimed the DC10 was used for hostage rescue training (lots of countries do this)- who knows for sure, but not a single one of the hijackers has ever been conclusively proven to have ever set foot in Iraq or get a nickel of Iraqi money.

Sorry, friend, you spend too much time in freeperville.

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59millionmorons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-03 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. I have a bridge for sale in Brooklyn
Interested?
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-03 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. Well. Thanks for the...
...steaming truck-load of horse manure. This is the one place that I go to try to avoid the NeoCon propaganda, and what do I find?

NEWSFLASH FOR THE TERRIBLY MISINFORMED (and that's being VERY kind):

FBI Admits: No Evidence Links 'Hijackers' to 9-11
May 13, 2002
<http://www.americanfreepress.net/051302/FBI_Admits__No_Evidence_/fbi_admits__no_evidence_.html>

If the head of the FBI admits "in an April 19 speech delivered to the Common wealth Club in San Francisco that the purported hijackers, in his words, 'left no paper trial'", what does that imply to you?

Muller also stated:

"In our investigation, we have not uncovered a single piece of paper—either here in the United States or in the treasure trove of information that has turned up in Afghanistan and elsewhere—that mentioned any aspect of the Sept. 11 plot."

Here's something else for you to consider:

Did Terrorist Pilots Train at U.S. Military Schools?
<http://www.madcowprod.com/index5.html>

"In addition to having been inducted into the U.S. flight training program by two Dutch-owned flight schools in Venice, Florida, as many as six of the terrorists, including ringleader Mohammed Atta, also received training at U.S. military facilities, according to a flurry of stories between Sept 15 and 17 in the Washington Post, Newsweek, and Knight Ridder newspapers."

So, how have YOU managed to connect the dots from the terrorist attack on 9/11 to training camps in any country if you have no documented proof of a connection of any kind? Then, how do you go from there to Saddam Hussein and Iraq? And now you want to tie Syria to the mess in Iraq? I'm just surprised that you didn't say anything about Iran.

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Solomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-03 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. Just wondering how long you gonna last here with that
attitude. :smoke:

If you're honest and not trying to joke, then I would suggest you climb out of that cocoon you been hiding in. We're talking about reality here and not pipedreams.
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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-03 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. great summary of the 'official story'
Edited on Fri Nov-28-03 03:18 PM by bpilgrim
i almost expected it to be signded Karl Rove ;->

welcome to DU :hi:

peace
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Timefortruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-03 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. You have a lot to learn.
I apologize if I offend anyone here, but why was Clinton and the whole UN gung-ho about the WMDs there? Or was Clinton part of Bush's conspiracy?

Hey, you didn't offend me because you are so clearly wrong that it is hard not to laugh.

First an update: Clinton did not invade Iraq, Bush did. Clinton may have sincerely believed Saddam had WMD and also believed that containment was working. Clinton could hold two thoughts in his mind at the same time unlike Bush.

What the right misses is that if Saddam had the weapons and didn't plan to use them then what did it matter? The other logical failure of the Saddam as terrorist malarkey is that we have to also believe that Saddam used restraint when he sponsored terrorism by not using the WMD.

Now we are expected to believe that Saddam moved his stashes of weapons to Syria to justify an invasion of that country. Presumably we are also to believe that the Syrians won't use them for defense or terror either, the Syrian will just let us invade and look for the phantom weapons. Of coarse the Syrians will not want to get caught with the weapons so they will move them to Iran, and we'll have to go there to make the search....
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-03 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #23
28. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-03 02:40 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. OMG. Where did you get this stuff? Are the NeoCons publishing...
...a disinformation newsletter or something???

First you said:

"We must look at the facts. Did or did not Saddam Hussien use weapons banned by the UN? The answer is yes. He used them against the Kurds as a vindictive measure when we pulled out after the first gulf war. Was he planning further attacks? Most likely... On our soil, probably not- but Saddam did initiate attacks against our interests overseas."

A War Crime or an Act of War?
<http://forums.transnationale.org/viewtopic.php?t=1458>

(This article discusses a gas event during the Iran-Iraq War)

"This much about the gassing at Halabja we undoubtedly know: it came about in the course of a battle between Iraqis and Iranians. Iraq used chemical weapons to try to kill Iranians who had seized the town, which is in northern Iraq not far from the Iranian border. The Kurdish civilians who died had the misfortune to be caught up in that exchange. But they were not Iraq's main target.

And the story gets murkier: immediately after the battle the United States Defense Intelligence Agency investigated and produced a classified report, which it circulated within the intelligence community on a need-to-know basis. That study asserted that it was Iranian gas that killed the Kurds, not Iraqi gas.

The agency did find that each side used gas against the other in the battle around Halabja. The condition of the dead Kurds' bodies, however, indicated they had been killed with a blood agent — that is, a cyanide-based gas — which Iran was known to use. The Iraqis, who are thought to have used mustard gas in the battle, are not known to have possessed blood agents at the time."

As far as the use of gas against the Kurds following the end of Desert Storm in 1991, I have found nothing credible to support that claim.


Then you stated the following:

"It has been proven, for example that Saddam paid money to the suicide bombers in Israel."

A better way to phrase that, and much closer to the truth, is that Iraq had been paying $25,000 to each of the FAMILIES of any Palestinian killed for any reason in the conflict with Israel. Iraq has also offered to relocate the families whose homes have been destroyed by the Israelis. Think of these payments as insurance policies.

You went on to say:

"Clinton DID attack Iraq, although most of it was just a simple punch in the arm that was used to try to cow Hussien into revealing a little bit more information. Clinton wanted to invade Iraq much the same way as Bush- however the UN gave him a runaround. Coffe Anan (probably spelled wrong) was one of many on the UN who was profiting from Iraq's illegal oil exportation. If Clinton had gotten his way, we wouldn't be pondering Bush's moves right now. 9-11 would probably not have occured either, because the socialogical temperments generally will respect a show of force. This was part of the reasoning behind Clinton's missile strikes."

Clinton - Strike sends message to Saddam
<http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9609/03/iraq.clinton/>

Your first paragraph above was terribly confused on a number of levels. First, Clinton did launch missile strikes in 1993 at the Iraqi intelligence infrastructure under Clinton's orders, but it was in retaliation for the Iraqi attack on the Kurdish city of Irbil. There was no information being sought by Clinton at that point in time.


One of your sentences in your paragraph above also caught my eye:

"Clinton wanted to invade Iraq much the same way as Bush- however the UN gave him a runaround."

Invading Iraq not a new idea for Bush clique
<http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/2003/01/27/news/local/5025024.htm>

"An obscure, ominous-sounding right-wing policy group called Project for the New American Century, or PNAC - affiliated with Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rumsfeld's top deputy Paul Wolfowitz and Bush's brother Jeb - even urged then-President Clinton to invade Iraq back in January 1998.

'We urge you to... enunciate a new strategy that would secure the interests of the U.S. and our friends and allies around the world,' stated the letter to Clinton, signed by Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, and others. 'That strategy should aim, above all, at the removal of Saddam Hussein's regime from power.' (For full text of the letter, see <http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm> )

Obviously, Clinton told them "No", and there was no runaround at the UN.


You also included he following in your post:

"*** Assume this as heresy, but sources have indicate that Saddam may have moved his WMD into Syria, much the way he first moved his airforce to Iran (A rival, and a deadly one at that...) However my friends have told me that we didn't go into Syria because it would have triggered a whole storm of bad stuff our way.***

And finally, do you not believe that we have terrorists heading into Iraq to fight our troops? That's their home ground (IE Middle East) and easier to plan and plot against. It makes clear and logical sense. Would you rather have them choose civilians, or troops who have been trained (and volunteered) for the task? Remember, we only see one side of the casualty list."

The NeoCons are the only "sources" claiming that Iraq has WMDs. Despite being TOTALLY discredited time after time, they continue to come back with ever more bizarre stories as to where those weapons could be hiding.

The story about Iraq moving their Air Force to Iran is totally ridiculous. Iran would have either shot those planes down at the border or captured them once they landed. These two countries fought a terrible war not too long ago, and to expect them to suddenly become allies is not even remotely possible. If Iraqi planes were moved to Iran, where are the satellite shots proving such a bold assertion?

Why do you call the opposing forces in Iraq "terrorists"? If another country invaded and occupied the U.S., what would you call Americans fighting to repel the invaders?
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59millionmorons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-03 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #31
36. Just wonderful
I am glad you picked this up, because 99.9 percent of the people are not aware of this. I watched an hour on this a few months ago on democracy now talking about the same things your article shows. So I wouldnt expect this RWinger to know the truth. Newsmax doesnt report this kind of thing.
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59millionmorons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-03 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #28
34. Is that you Karl Rove
Welcome to DU Karl, but you might want to try this propaganda over on another site (FR) we here are not that gullible. :toast:
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booley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-03 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
20. well it's merely Shrub's Kiss of death.
Shrub cutting military benfits and then using them as a photo-op? well, that's just his usual thing.

He posed with librarians ebfore cutting thier funding.

And posed with those trapped minors after his admin had slashed the regulations covering mining safety?

And then you have the school kids and his No Child left Behind..which apparently leaves millions of children behind.

appearing with Shrub for a photo-op is like asking to get screwed...
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59millionmorons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-03 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. And yes
We all been screwed by this misadministration.
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booley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-03 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. yeah but..
isn't it a bit weird how many groups have done photo ops with him and then had thier funding cut or a law passed that really messed them up?

The coincidences are too wierd.
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Postman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-28-03 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
24. How about middle finger up?
I hate that lyin' bas-terd
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buycitgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-29-03 03:21 AM
Response to Original message
32. didn't read replies, so.....what about wussy Dems?
Gephardt didn't comment.

Begala gave him props.

anyone else who criticized him did so AFTER saying, in essence, what a wondeful gesture it was.

too bad they didn't have the cojos of the average Iraqi on the street.

but then, they aren't afraid, apparently of the big, bad rethuglican/govtmedia attack mechanism

again, leaders ride the crest of the wave, they don't surf in on the break.

does that leave a single candidate who gave the creepinchief no quarter?

hope Kucinich didn't/bet he didn't

can't believe even events-not-so-far-down-the-road will judge this cynical PR ploy any differently than has been the flightsuit "packaging" fiasco.

hope I'm right
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