One man's opinion: Evidence indicates that Wellstone crash was no accident

[mzmolly]

My apologies if this is a dup. Mucho kudos to the author ey!

"Minnesota Sen. Paul Wellstone was a serious man who cared profoundly about his fellow citizens. He took courageous stands against an administration that he viewed with profound suspicion, arguing eloquently against tax cuts for the rich, the subversion of the Constitution, and violating international accords. He would have led the opposition to the war in Iraq if only he had had the chance. Everyone knew it and he may have died because of it.

For nearly a year now, evidence has been accumulating about the event that ended the life of this magnificent human being. Whatever caused the crash was not the plane, the pilots or the weather. In spite of what you may have heard, the plane was exceptional, the pilots well-qualified and the weather posed no significant problems. Even the National Transportation Safety Board's own simulations of the plane, the pilots and the weather were unable to bring the plane down.

This means we have to consider other, less palatable, alternatives, such as small bombs, gas canisters or electromagnetic pulse, radio frequency or High Energy Radio Frequency weapons designed to overwhelm electrical circuitry with an intense electromagnetic field. An abrupt cessation of communication between the plane and the tower took place at about 10:18 a.m., the same time an odd cell phone phenomenon occurred with a driver in the immediate vicinity. This suggests to me the most likely explanation is that one of our new electromagnetic weapons was employed.

The politics of the situation were astonishing. The senator was pulling away from the hand-picked candidate of the Bush machine. Its opportunity to seize control of the U.S. Senate was slipping from its grasp. Its vaunted "invincibility" was being challenged by an outspoken critic of its most basic values. Targeted for elimination, he was going to survive. Here's one man's opinion: Under such conditions, the temptation to take him out may have been irresistible."

More here:

http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthtribune/news/opinion/7306797.htm

[DS1]

1. Did they bring down JFK Jr as well?

:shrug:

[mzmolly]

2. I kinda wonder that myself...

He could have been seen as a long term danger. *sigh* Who knows?

[neebob]

27. I read somewhere recently that

that JFK Jr. was murdered because he was looking into Mossad involvement in the assassination of Ariel Sharon.

[celestia671]

3. It's always been my belief...

that Wellstone was perceived as a serious threat to dethroning the Boy Wonder. Whether that had anything to do with his plane crash, who knows?

[myomy]

4. Hope this story stays alive and isnÕt

buried like so many other scandals from this misadministration.

[Pastiche423]

5. I will forever believe

as I did the moment I heard he was dead, that he was murdered.

After more than a year, no real investigation has been done.

Ala...

9/11
Anthrax
Baxter
Enron
WMD

What do the above five have in common?

[mhr]

6. Posted Previously And Debated Ad Nauseum, The Crash Was An Accident!

See my previous posts speaking as a FAA commercial pilot.

Wellstone's pilots flew too slow and stalled the plane. This was the finding of the NTSB report released two weeks ago.

This issue will never be settled here and is a waste of time to debate yet again!

[preciousdove]

7. Me thinks thou doest protest too much!

Can you imagine Paul not saying anything if he thought they were flying too slow and he had flown enough to know what was normal.

I saw it in Paul's eyes at the State Fair weeks before. On a small island off of Greece they think he was murdered. When will Minnesota people remove their rose colored glasses to know the truth?

"The FBI's prompt arrival was peculiar. As Christopher Bollyn of American Free Press reported (www.rumor millnews.net, Oct. 29, 2002), "According to Rick Wahlberg, then St. Louis County sheriff, a team of FBI agents was quickly on the crash site about noon, less than an hour after (assistant manager Gary) Ulman and the (fire) chief had first located the site and found a way to access the wreck. This FBI team had come from the distant Twin Cities in record time!"

[mzmolly]

12. If I go with my 'gut' reaction I'd say he was 'taken out' by someone

as it seems that Democrats are far more likely to die in small planes then the proverbial enemy.

[mhr]

15. FAA Certified Commercial Pilot, How Could I Protest Too Much?

I have flown many hours in instrument conditions and understand the many possible ways that pilots make mistakes.

The author of the article is not a commercial/intrument pilot to my knowledge. So what makes him an expert and not me.

[Terwilliger]

18. So, the pilots that flew Wellstone's plane were inept?

You talk as if they did an "Oops!" and it resulted in a crashed plane. The author says that these were highly experienced pilots in a mild weather situation. So, they just bungled the one wind-gust? Couldn't recover afterwards?

[Fescue4u]

21. How would he know?

"Can you imagine Paul not saying anything if he thought they were flying too slow and he had flown enough to know what was normal."

I would be shocked if any passenger on a flight would have a clue what was normal.

Very few passenger cabins have a set of airspeed indicators.

Besides, it only takes a few seconds to slow enough to stall a plane.

Next time you are in a commerical airplane, just before landing, figure out how much faster than stall speed you are flying, and then ask the pilot at the end of the flight if you were right.

My guess is you won't have a clue on how to even estimate this. (unless you are pilot of course, even then its an estimate)

[LeftCoast]

8. Don't bother

You could send them back in time, fly them next to the plane, show them the ice and they STILL wouldn't believe it was an accident. People believe what they want. :shrug:

[mzmolly]

11. I make no assertions, I just don't think it's out of the question

people believe what they want to don't they?

[cosmicdot]

9. a wonderful tribute would have been to vote Coleman down

... had Diebold or equivalent crept into critical polling places???

I believe he was murdered.

The behavior of Republicans and their media mouthpieces in the wake, aftermath of the big memorial was abominable, abhorrent.

[preciousdove]

10. Anoka & Ramsey Co have Diebold Machines

To: <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Minnesota Firmware
From: "Ken Clark" <[e-mail]>
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 11:49:52 -0500
Importance: Normal
In-reply-to: <[e-mail]>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
I don't know the status of any certification though. Anybody?

I would be suprised if they have any serious cert requirements (but I
have been suprised before). The subject didn't come up when they asked
for 1.95 last year for their November elections, and Anoka has been what
ammounts to a beta test site for GEMS since 1997.

Dianne Teff would know best.

Ken

PC1.95d was released on March 15, 1998 specifically for
> Minnesota. I don't know the status of any certification
> though. Anybody?

Oops. Make that March 15, 1999. Hit a little time warp
there.

Guy
--
Guy Lancaster <[e-mail]>
Global Election Systems Inc., Vancouver, BC, Canada

[durutti]

13. Oh, Jesus

Why on Earth would they want to kill Wellstone? He wasn't the only one who opposed the war. Why didn't they mow down the whole Progressive Caucus?

[mzmolly]

19. It seems Democrats and small aircraft dont mix...

for whatever reason.

http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=14399

"There is no indication today that Wellstone's death was the result of foul play. What we do know, however, is that Wellstone emerged as the most visible obstacle standing in the way of a draconian political agenda by an unelected government. And now he is conveniently gone. For our government to maintain its credibility at this time, we need an open and accountable independent investigation involving international participation into the death of Paul Wellstone. Hopefully we will find out, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that this was indeed an untimely accident. For the sake of our country, we need to know this."

However, given that the original article had this to say:

"One of the oddest events since the election is that Wellstone's successor in the U.S. Senate, Norm Coleman, has been placed in charge of the Senate Investigations Committee.

That is an extraordinarily sensitive responsibility to be placed upon a freshman senator with no previous experience. My guess would be that it has never happened before. But the reasoning behind it may not be that difficult to fathom: Would anyone be less inclined to pursue the Wellstone death?"

I'd say we may never know for sure.

[Mike Niendorff]

14. wtf?

Look, there are plenty of *reasonable* arguments that can be made regarding the death of Paul Wellstone, but this X-files-style "EMP" crap is simply not among them.

This strikes me very much as a reprise of what took place here on DU (and probably elsewhere, too) after the 9/11 attacks. As I think anyone who's looked into it knows by now, there are *tons* of legitimate questions about that event. BUT: if you hung out here on DU in the months thereafter and tried to pursue these questions fairly and openly, you rapidly found yourself surrounded by (and lumped in with) a crop of trolls promoting these completely absurd claims about "controlled demolition", "no Pentagon plane" and a whole lot of other such nonsense. It took a whole series of major revelations (around May of 2002) to finally shake off this association, and to make clear that asking questions about (for example) the Crawford Briefing is emphatically not the same thing as making some crackpot claim that the towers were "really" brought down by secretly placed explosives, or that the hijacked planes were "really" being piloted by remote control.

The point being: when legitimate questions can't be completely suppressed and driven from public debate, the next best thing (for those who wish to avoid answering them) is usually to seek to discredit them by associating them with the absurd, the wild-eyed and the paranoid.

So, I guess what I'm saying here is pretty basic: be careful, people. Just because someone is giving print space to a column that says "Wellstone was murdered" doesn't mean that they are doing anything to help along the cause of a legitimate investigation.

Columns like this (that venture out into the ozone and literally invite the "crackpot conspiracy theorist" label) do far more to harm their cause than to help it.

</.02>


MDN

[seemslikeadream]

16. W. R. Grace Mining was not too happy with Paul

He was trying to get the EPA to release findings about how Grace had been the biggest polluter on the face of the earth.

Paul Norris is the CEO of W.R. Grace & Co. and is a mass murderer. W.R. Grace has killed nearly 200 people in Libby Montana. W.R. Grace mining operation in Libby knowingly poisoned the whole area with deadly asbestos, neither protecting nor informing the residents because that would have hurt corporate profits and the paycheck of the CEO.
On January 8, 2003 three management employees of Grace Performance Chemicals a subsidiary of W.R. Grace were killed in the crash of a commuter aircraft at Charlotte NC.
Richard Lyons, 56 was Global Health and Safety Manager at Grace.
Joseph Spiak, was General Manager for Specialty Vermiculite for Grace.
Paul Stidharn, 46 was Director of Environment Health and Safety.

[seemslikeadream]

22. 201,183 pounds of pure asbestos fiber from Grace

was used in the World Trade Center. In Washington alone, at least 53,505 homes contain Zonolite insulation, according to lawyers who filed a class-action suit seeking to force W.R. Grace & Co., the Libby vermiculite mine's last owner, to warn homeowners of the danger.

Was it discovered perhaps in 1993 ... after the WTC was bombed, that the 'fire insulation' was defective... and it was kept secret?

Did Sen. Wellstone and staff find perhaps this fact in the investigation of the WTC... and is this also in other office buildings and skyscrapers as well where Grace., and related used their materials?

And have you seen this? Wellstone Anomaly
http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/wellstone.html

[seemslikeadream]

23. Eviromental Protection Agency calls off warnings at the last minute

by high-ranking Bush administration officals.

Internal EPA documents show that about 15 million to 35 million of the nation's approximately 105 million households contain a brand of insulation known as Zonolite. Mined for decades in Libby Montana, Zonolite contains a particularly lethal form of asbestos known as tremolite.

It can take decades after exposure to tremolite or other forms of asbestos before asbestos-related disease is diagnosed. By not warning the public now, it's likely the government is allowing many Americans to unknowingly undergo potentially lethal asbestos exposures, critics of the administration's move say.
http://stacks.msnbc.com/local/pisea/102011.asp?cp1=1

[peacetalksforall]

17. My gut keeps telling me that we're not going to know much more until

we find out more about remote control of aircraft.

I wish people would stop talking about ice. Reports coming out of the airport kept saying that no one either just beofre or just after had an ice problem. If ice only affected the aircraft Wellstone was on it means that there was something wrong on another level and probably something more than ice. Does ice form at xx speed and not a xx speed? Have you heard of an ice report conclusion? What did it say? If it said nothing, then people should stop trying to shut people up with that concept.

No matter how you cut it - there was every motivation any very dirty political party needs to take him out. He and Kennedy, but they can't take another Kennedy.

Wellstone -
First vote in the Senate - against Iraq War 1
Last vote in the Seante - against Iraq War 2

Tell your children.

[SheilaT]

20. So I guess those reports

that the pilot was somewhat less than competent weren't accurate?

And to say that just because no other plane immediately before or after Wellstone's didn't ice up and crash means that his couldn't possibly have crashed due to icing, ignores that conditions can change on a minute by minute basis.

Perhaps the example of Air Florida Flight 90 on January 13, 1982. It crashed on take-off from Washington's National airport because of ice on the wings, although none of the planes that took off immediately before it had that problem. (I don't think any other planes took off afterwards, but I'm not sure.) Or the various crashes that have occurred because of sudden downdrafts. Conditions can change in an instance, and affect only one plane.

And if there were some evil entity out there selectively crashing the planes of liberals, then why are people like Ted Kennedy still alive? Or Senator Robert Byrd. Or any one of the many who are still with us? It just doesn't make sense. The selective assassination explanation is simply more complicated than necessary to explain what happened. Aside from being not true, of course.

[preciousdove]

25. Random Chaos preserves Deniability

I wonder why people on DU are still in denial about what the people who took over the US Government are capable of. They had plenty of reason to get rid of Wellstone and they did.

[Padraig18]

24. What about the NTSB report?

Or are they part of this evil conspiracy, too? :eyes:

[genius]

26. Loretta Sanchez's alternate opposed independent investigation

If you ask liberals in OC about a resolution for an independent investigation, they will tell you it got shot down in flames. According to Loretta's alternate, Loretta received campaign contributions from Raytheon and an independent investigation would hurt Loretta's chances for getting contributions from them in the future. Raytheon, incidentally, made a fortune off the war Wellstone voted against and he was flying on a Raytheon plane he he died. Loretta may not have known about her alternate's opposition to the independent investigation.