Is Dean frugal or an exorbitant spender? You make the call...

[slinkerwink]

Hmmmm....now that looks like the kitchen of an exorbitant spender!

[ShaneGR]

1. What's with the spending threads?

Seriously, have there been attacks on Dean's personal spending habits?

[slinkerwink]

3. yep....

people are saying that Dean's a really rich guy, but hmmm....his kitchen sure don't look like a rich guy's kitchen. Maybe he planned his cheap kitchen in advance for the 2004 presidential race? ;-)

[AP]

14. The guy's worth 3-4 million and his father was a big deal on Wall St

and the guy invited Wall St to vermont to help run things when he got elected governor, and his education plan includes a guaranteed profit scheme for wall st subsidized by the taxpayers.

So if you want to know what the kitchen of a guy with that array of policies looks like, well, I guess there it is.

[drfemoe]

17. that's the first time

you ever made me laugh .. :+

[JaneQPublic]

18. Links, please?

proving:

-- "the guy invited Wall St to vermont to help run things when he got elected governor"

--and--

-- "his education plan includes a guaranteed profit scheme for wall st subsidized by the taxpayers."

[AP]

24. both discussed here before.

- He put people on staff who had worked on Wall St. He was an energy deregulator. He did favors for IBM.

- his education plan is simply another loan (like students already don't have a really easy time getting into unbelievalbe debt) for which the payments are tax deductible when they exceed a percentage of your income. It's a safety net which encourages you to go into a little more debt than you otherwise would. Since Dean believes that budgets must balance, he'll have to raise taxes to make up in the shortfall in tax revenues caused by the deduction. And what't that deduction for? It's for a payment to a bank which is making a profit off of the loan. So, essentially, you have taxpayers as guarantors of bank profitability. Of course, the loan program requires you to work to get the benefit, so it's going to drive down wages for people ten years out of college, which sort of ensures that people's loans payments are going to exceed that threshold. Oh, and who benefits from low wages? Corporate employers. So, you have taxpayers subsidizing bank profits directly, and subsidizing all corporate profits as a secondary result of the education plan.

Hooray for Wall St.

[jsw_81]

56. Dean's family was successful?

How horrible! He shouldn't even be allowed to vote!

And Governor Dean actually got experienced businessmen and women to help him govern his state? That's absolutely outrageous! I can't believe I ever supported this guy! Where do I sign up for the Kucinich campaign?

Seriously, what's with all the class envy and jealousy I see on threads like this? Isn't it the American dream to be successful so you can provide your children with a better life?

[AP]

66. Has anyone read Wealth & Democracy by Kevin Phillips.

Incidentally, the American Dream is that anyone can lift themselves up with hard work and perserverance. It isn't that you're born wealthy and you get a lot of second chances to reinvent yourself thanks to the safety net of privilege, class, skin color, etc.

[Scott Lee]

68. Really...and Kerry is worth how much? (*cough* Heinz...)

Well there ya go.

[rucky]

2. I wish I could afford bananas n/t

[slinkerwink]

4. me too....

How DARE Dean be able to afford bananas! The nerve!

[KittyWampus]

5. I Am Not Puritanical And Don't Give A Crap

If Dean washes his own underwear and sleeps in roach motels or if he has a housecleaner and stays in nicer digs.

There is a whole class of rich white people who feel guilty about their family's wealth. If Dean really has a few million it wouldn't hurt to spend it.

Sounds like Dean has "money issues".

[coloradodem2005]

6. I think that VT Killa is frugal.

[Ellen Forradalom]

7. Dean is frugal

he has said so himself. He told a story on Leno about wearing the same suit til it fell apart. (He's spruced up the wardrobe a bit since then.) I admire thriftiness and don't mind it in a President.

[slinkerwink]

9. same here too.....

;-)

[RamboLiberal]

11. In his book he tells of keeping his tux he wore in HS

and wearing it to functions years later even though he was some lbs. heavier. One night he's at a governor's dinner at the WH, had to cough and split the pants open in the front. Said only the cumberbund was hiding him. He told his state trooper security to walk in front of him, he's holding his hands in front of his split pants. Still he went to a cleaner and had the pants fixed for $25.

He also painted his own house.

His election staff can tell stories of his frugality.

After the borrow and spend Repugs and with probably a Repug congress in place, he may be just what is needed in the WH to get this country back in fiscal shape.

[slinkerwink]

12. that's quite a funny story!

I'll have to read his book....;-)

[AP]

15. penny wise and pound foolish?

?

[slinkerwink]

19. now you've got to be working for the Edwards campaign

because everything you're saying sounds rather stupid.

[AP]

26. I got a laugh above. And I'm doing this totally as charitable donation.

It's totally free.

And I doubt you really think it's stupid or you'd just put me on ignore.

[ozone_man]

63. Nope, he spent the pounds wisely too.

While as governor of VT, he always balance the budget. He is frugal at all levels.

Bush is the big spender, in case you haven't noticed. He is spending us into oblivion.

[AP]

76. Next pres is going to have to spend a little to make a little. I'm not

sure that budget-balancing frugality is going to get us out of the mess we're in.

Also, understanding that those who have a lot might have to be asked to spend a little of what they have to help people at the bottom rise up for the common good might be a key thing to comprehend.

I'm not sure that a frugal multi-millionaire who doesn't appreciated this in his private live will appreciate it in a policy sense.

[KittyWampus]

48. Sorry, IF This Is True Then Dean Definately Has Problems With Money

Just as it is out of balance for someone with no money to go on credit card spending sprees...
or wealthy people to spend profligately...

There is something out of balance with Dean if he has a couple of million and can't bring himself to buy a new Tuxedo.

[janx]

51. Why would anyone buy one if he didn't need one?

Our culture is way out of whack about buying things. We think we have to buy things all the time--and many times we buy things that we don't need.

[KittyWampus]

54. Ummm- The Story Recounted Here Has Dean Needing A Tuxedo

That is what I was responding to...

Dean needs a tuxedo and instead of getting one that fits he wears an old one from school days that doesn't fit.

Then after it rips open he brings it to the cleaners and has it mended rather than buying a new one.

Sorry, but this along with all the other accounts about Dean make it sound like he is somewhat pathological about spendind money.

It's one thing to not waste or to be wise about spending... it's another thing to not be able to spread it around.

[janx]

59. Pathological?

I have a pair of favorite boots I've had for years. They need repair. I like them, so I'm going to have them repaired instead of going out to buy new ones.

That doesn't sound pathological to me.

[KittyWampus]

75. Are Your Boots Too Small?

Because in the story offered here Dean's Tux was too small and no longer fit resulting in it's being ripped open. The rather than discarding it and getting a new one- he has the old one fixed.

And there are people who have serious money issues... they HAVE the money but can't spend it.

[Scott Lee]

70. Unbelievable. NOW Dean is evil because he wears an old tux.

I gotta hand it to you antiDeans. You are really developing the irrelevent slam into an art form.

If Dean had gone out and bought a new tux, you'd have bitched about him being an elitist moneymonger and spree-spender. If he'd have taken it to an alteration shop, you'd have nailed him for being lazy and not doing it himself. If he had repaired it himself you'd be accusing him of crapping on the small business owner.

And we haven't even mentioned those of you who would post pictues demonstrating how the tux made Dean "mean looking".

what a bore.

[slinkerwink]

74. lol, now we're damned if we do, and damned if we don't

sounds a lot like Clinton bashing by freepers, remember?

[KittyWampus]

78. He Wore An Old Tux That DIDN'T Fit

I think there's something wrong with a person who has several million dollars but can't handle spending a little money for a new Tux.
Especially since said person was Governor and is running for President of the US. Would he serve ramen noodles to dignitaries if he got elected?

And I posted earlier, I am not Puritanical about money.

As someone who has lived hand to mouth and has lived well off... has cleaned toilets for AND hobnobbed with the rich and famous...
I don't necessarily care if someone who has millions spends it. In fact, if you have alot of money, it benefits others in society to spend it and spread it around.

If Dean had someone in to run a vacuum around his house once a week he'd be helping the economy more than hording his money.

Profligate spending is out of balance as is being unable to spend it at all.

[Scott Lee]

81. Oh god NO!! This is the end of civilization as we know it!

Anybody have some sack cloth and ashes I can borrow?

*weep, wail, gnash teeth*

[AP]

87. I read that after one of those hurricanes, Edwards rented a truck

bought a lot of supplies and drove out to communities and gave away the supplies to people who needed them. (I don't know if that's true. I read it here, so I welcome confirmation.)

This was BEFORE he entered politics.

Now there's a guy who knows when not to pinch pennies.

[AP]

86. Yeah. What does dean want to do? Die with 4 million dollars? Do something

good with it for god's sake!

[quaker bill]

58. A drive for simple living is not the same

as 'money issues'. It can be an expression of properly ordered priorities.

Because I choose to live well beneath my means, I can contribute to my preferred candidates and causes generously without concern. It is a wonderful thing in times like these.

To quote the Tao "A rich man is a man who knows he has enough"

[TLM]

83. Do you understand the difference between net worth and liquid assets?

I've read Dean net worth is about 4 million. That doesn't mean he has 4 million is spending cash sitting around. It means all his possessions and holdings are worth 4 million.


But i do love how the fact Dean isn’t spending money extravagantly is somehow a sign of rich white guilt. Here's an idea... maybe the reason Dean was able to obtain 4 million in assets over the last 50 years or so, is because he didn't waste his money?

You Dean bashers are so hell bent on attacking Dean that you would turn fiscal responsibility into a sickness.

[Cleita]

8. I saw that in _____magazine.

I can't remember. I was in the Dr.'s office with DH, but all I could think of was, if he and his wife are supposedly rich doctors and politicians, where is the housekeeper?

[slinkerwink]

10. mmmm, my question too....

oh wait, Dean does the dishes himself and mows his own lawn....

[elperromagico]

21. The font in the photo caption suggests Time or Newsweek.

I'm leaning towards Time...

[Pastiche423]

32. I scanned it from

the August 11, 2003 edition of Times.

[drfemoe]

28. No kidding

I guess it's personal taste, but I hate clutter.
.. doesn't mean I don't HAVE any ..

You know frugal people don't like to throw anything out.
I just hope he doesn't collect 'jars'. omg

[slinkerwink]

13. :kick:

[elperromagico]

16. Dean 2004: Because He Makes His Own Tea

Gawd, Mabel, that feller sure likes that tea!

[slinkerwink]

20. lol....

[Zomby Woof]

22. depends

Is he drinking something cheap like Lipton or Nestea, or is he drinking Stash? He can't be frugal if he is drinking Stash or some other high-end tea, right? Plus, if he is drinking decaf, I will really start a flame war. ;-)

[FDRrocks]

23. Seriously...

my kitchen is about 1/3 of that.

[slinkerwink]

25. ahhhh, so's my kitchen, but Dean's kitchen is a middle-class kitchen.

[FDRrocks]

27. I'm middle class PA

paid 150k for our house.

[slinkerwink]

30. Dean's house is probably estimated to be at $220K

from the looks of it. It isn't a huge mansion or whatever, just a regular family home.

[maddezmom]

31. just wondering

does he own any other houses?

And as for that kitchen, seems pretty middle of the road.

[slinkerwink]

33. I don't think he owns any other houses.....

maybe a cabin in Vt to go with his family? That's what I heard.

[AP]

35. I believe that "cabin" was worth a decent chunk of money.

I looked at his financial disclosure forms. He fills them out be hand to be cute, but it makes them harder to read, and I find it kind of annoying that he acts like it's not something he has to deal with seriously and neatly.

In any event, I vaguely remember noting that the "cabin" was worth more than the house he lived in.

[FDRrocks]

38. *shhh*

you don't wanna pop skulls!

j/k love you're DU work.

[slinkerwink]

41. ha, I find it interesting you got pissed because Dean filled out his forms

by hand----don't you think he's used to it since he's a doctor and all?

[AP]

67. I think it was either a stunt or becuase he doesn't care about the

seriousness of the matter.

[slinkerwink]

69. so he should type out everything on paperwork?

instead of answering them by hand? :shrugs:

[AP]

73. If he turned his schoolwork at Yale looking like that, well, then I'm

not surprised the only job he get after college was pouring cement, or going into the family business thanks to dad's connections on Wall St.

[maddezmom]

37. where's the cabin?

As for his house being 220,000 in VT, that could translate into 600+ say in NoVA or in CA. Housing costs vary by city.

[JohnKleeb]

39. As someone who lives in NoVA

Houses are quite expensive here. I wouldnt know the equiv on that though. :shrug: I dont plan to be a money major.

[maddezmom]

40. John, where do you live in NoVA?

just curious. My husband is there right now shopping for houses. We're making the move back sometime in 2004.

[JohnKleeb]

42. Herndon

I am not checking the house prices btw and in 2004 and 2005 I am gonna be leavin, for college.

[maddezmom]

45. know the area well

Looking at Franklin Farms as an option, but might just build a little farther out.

Congrats on college, have fun but don't forget to study. :) ( said in my best mom voice)

[JohnKleeb]

46. I think I know that but I dont know

I will remember to study. I cant wait!

[JohnKleeb]

29. come to think and no offense to anyone but that kitchen is big

But at least hes doing the cooking, I bet Bush has a staff.

[slinkerwink]

34. yep....

Looks like Dean knows how to flip his own chicken breasts---I bet you that Bush makes a totally crappy chicken breast. ;-)

[JohnKleeb]

36. I eat a lot of pork myself but that looks good

Are you kidding lol Bush doesnt cook. His staff does it for him. Well I heard Mr. Cheney was giving him the know how to make TV Dinners but even hes miserable at that.

[drfemoe]

43. He took five

chefs with him to UK.

[JohnKleeb]

44. 5 frigging chefs

damn dubya. What is he a king! I bet he has a seal now too.

[Beaker]

52. Big?? Compared to what, an efficiency apartment?

Galley style kitchens suck to begin with. It's soo skinny, and too long...is that an electric stove? ick.
Why would a Dr. keep such a messy kitchen?- that's what bothers me.
what a p-i-g, pig.

BTW- that counter corner in the foreground, above the stool- seems like it should be rounded. It looks like something that has probably caused more than a couple bruised thighs, and would probably claim a kid's forehead if given the chance.

[ecstatic]

47. he admitted he was cheap, but what does that have to do with

how he'll run the country?

[KittyWampus]

49. Really, Why Can't He Cut The Pentagon Budget

rather than taking back the Middle Class Tax Cut?

It's save a heck of a lot more money and help ease the burden on those of us who DON'T have a couple of million like Dean.

But we're supposed to be impressed cause Dean has some complex that prevents him from buying a decent Tuxedo?

[janx]

50. Hey, you guys did it!

This is good!

[Beaker]

53. I don't know about frugal, but he's definitely a first-class SLOB!

nt

[Fleshdancer]

60. Two working parents

and two teenagers can dirty up a kitchen pretty quick.

[RamboLiberal]

65. You guys remind me of a couple of Newsweek letters

One person wasn't voting for him because of his messy kitchen, the other was voting for him because his messy kitchen looked well-used.

BTW, I'm in the latter category as far as kitchens. On my frig is this magnet. "Martha Stewart doesn't live here"

Not a reason to vote for a candidate by the kitchen he keeps, but he does remind me of a kind of ordinary guy from the suburbs. I feel like Bushie Dean was born on third base, but unlike * he doesn't feel he hit a triple.

[Scott Lee]

79. Hey his kitchen looks better than mine.

And for contrast, I wonder how many times a Bush had to make their own tea. Or a meal for themselves for that matter.

[maxanne]

55. this is funny

thanks slinkerwink!

I'm absolutely amazed - if Dean spent money like no tomorrow, and lived in a mansion with servants - ya'll would be complaining about that. Because the guy is worth a few million (which hardly compares to the court appointed guy in the White House) and lives a pretty middle class existance, you're raking him over the coals. Bwaaaahaha

My daughter the non-voter is going with me this afternoon to meet Dr. Dean. The great thing about being a Dem in northern NH is that sooner or later you meet all the candidates. My daughter has decided that 2004 is the year to shrug off voter apathy.

[slinkerwink]

61. Have fun seeing Dean this afternoon!

:hi: It's funny that no matter what things I post, anti-Deanites always find something to bitch about ;-)

[Scott Lee]

71. Dean shops at Pier One! Where is the outrage??

ZzzzzzzzZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz.............

[slinkerwink]

72. *snickers*

;-)

[philosophie_en_rose]

57. What is Dean doing at my mom's house?

It's really a little disturbing. Even the cooler and the recycling bins are stuffed in same places.

However, I really like that his home looks like it's actually used. I'm not 100% behind Dean at this point, but I do admire that he does things for himself and refuses to waste. That has nothing to do with money.

[jsw_81]

62. Reminds me of Dukakis

But in a good way. Remember his little house in Brookline with the old, rusted lawnmower that he had kept for 25 years? Remember how he took the subway and drove a Chevette instead of a limo?

[andym]

64. Yup, Dukakis was a man of the people too

Several of my friends saw him riding the "T" to work in Boston
when he was Governor.

Actually, many past Democratic candidates lived frugally. Remember 1992 candidate Jerry Brown. He drove his Plymouth sedan, instead of a chauffeur-driven limousine while Governor of California.

[Ksec]

77. Deans a smart guy and he knows how to save a buck

good for him IMO

[latebloomer]

80. I love it!

Looks almost as bad as mine, vinyl tiles and all.

I live in an upper-middle-class town and practically everyone you visit has these glamorous kitchens, with the granite countertops, the custom-made cabinets and the beautiful ceramic floors.

Hey, I could actually invite Dean to my place and not be embarrassed-- unlike most of the people I know around here, who mostly have a hell of a lot less in the bank than he does.

Unpretentious. Down to earth. Cool!

[slinkerwink]

84. same here too.....

I'd have no qualms about inviting Dean to my house like I'd have qualms about Clinton ;-)

[chefgirl]

82. What a shithole!

Jeez.....frugal is one thing, but maybe he should cut loose with a few bucks for some cleaning supplies??

-chef-

[oxymoron]

85. don't know about the spending...

but it definitely proves he's a slob.