How does the way the government is currently spending money

[Timefortruth]

translate to the ordinary family’s budget? In other words say the family’s income is 60K, how much would that family have to spend for it’s spending to be comparable to the federal government's spending in a single year 200K? 1million? And how is that distributed? We have been talking about putting the federal budget in understandable terms but I can’t find a source that does that, any thoughts? Thanks.

[Kitsune]

1. --post removed-- clearly i am not awake yet

Note to self, reply =|= edit

[Kitsune]

2. ack, misread the question *nt*

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. Try a family income of 20K

like mine, and I'll go with it.

The Federal Government is overspending its budget so much it would be as if my husband and I mortgaged our land two or three times, took out signature loans at exorbitant interest, and had several credit cards maxed out. We'd have several cars that we bought at prices way over cost and that we are paying on with interest ten times the value of the vehicles. We'd have an overpriced security system that doesn't really work and a cardboard "attack dog" and warning signs to put on our road, while our house was slowly falling apart due to problems in plumbing, wiring, and subfloors (infrastructure). We'd be paying way way way too much for health care, especially prescription drugs. Our grandchild would be given books that don't have any words on the pages, and taped lectures that only tell her how to pass tests, not how to think and reason for herself. Meanwhile the bankers would be bleeding us dry, and smiling all the while.

Don't know if this is a workable analogy or not, but hope it's a start.

[SoCalDem]

4. I have some ideas..

First of all, THIS is precisely the way OUR side should approach the budget crisis.. The HUGE numbers and the shell game mentality of the govt is what causes all the misunderstanding..

I have likened it this way..

say you have take home pay of $3,000.00 a month

house payment.................$1,000.00 (California, ya know)
car payment.................... 400.00
2nd car payment................. 250.00
food (fam of 4)................ 300.00
elec, gas, water, trash........ 350.00
car insurance.................. 200.00
phone.......................... 50.00
gasoline....................... 160.00 (California, ya know)
life insurance................. 100.00 (Mom & Dad 40'ish)

This is 12 "bills".. I think our govt actually has 13 "must-dos")..This would leave $240.00 discretionary money to pay credit cards, daycare, out-to-eat meals, entertainment, etc..

Now assume that we have some out of control parents who throw a big party every month for their friends and blow $2,000.00 a pop on the parties.. The family would suffer greatly trying to meet the other obligations.. This is what our country does regularly.. A family would have to use their plastic to make ends meet, and that would only increase the pressue on that "left over" $240.00..

[DUreader]

5. This is an excellent idea, if somebody has percentages

We could do the math for different income levels

[Timefortruth]

6. My question must not have been clear enough.

What I am looking for is the proportions represented in simple to understand dollar numbers, with authority if anyone has it. We know that it is way beyond anything reasonable, but what would that mean if it were reduced?

Thank you.

[SoCalDem]

7. We will NEVER see those numbers..

Our country finances are smoke and mirrors.. By design, they keep the numbers "fuzzy".. If the people actually knew how badly their tax money was being wasted, they would revolt and stop sending it in :)

[Timefortruth]

8. It is diffcult, but someone has to have thought of it, right?

somewhere?

[many a good man]

9. Shouldn't be too hard to figure out

To keep it simple we just need the following figures:

1) total government revenue in one year
- this will be equivalent to a family's annual income

2) total federal spending for one year
- one family's annual spending

3) total federal debt
- family's long term debt (like mortgage, credit cards, car loans, etc)

For a $50000 income family we can divide #1 by some number to get 50000. Then we can divide the other two by the same number.

Some DUers have cited a few web sites with reliable government budget figures; let's look these up and post them here. Note: this has probably already been done by some conservative deficit hawks...

[Timefortruth]

10. That's what I think also.

Someone has to have thought of this already, it's so obvious. But I can't find it.

[muriel_volestrangler]

11. Try this:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/text/2001763598_spending11.html

"The federal budget deficit for fiscal 2003 totaled $374 billion, easily surpassing the previous record of $290 billion in 1992, although shy of the 1992 level once adjusted for inflation."

"A sluggish economy and three successive tax cuts pushed tax receipts to $1.78 trillion, $70 billion less than 2002 levels. Expressed as percentage of the economy, the federal tax take fell to 16.6 percent, the lowest level since 1959."

"Spending rose by $146 billion over 2002, or 7.3 percent, to $2.16 trillion. In 2003, spending equaled 20.3 percent of the economy, the highest level since 1996, when Clinton hailed the end of big government in his State of the Union address."

And the federal debt, according to the Treasury at http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdpenny.htm

09/30/2003 $6,783,231,062,743.62

So, say:
income $17,800
outgoings $21,600
debts $67,832

[many a good man]

13. Fun with Math

Thanks for the numbers. Now lets extrapolate to your desired case of a family income of $60K:

Income: $60,000
outgoings: $72,809
debts: $228,647

Now, of course the federal budget numbers probably don't assume the cost of maintaining the tax cuts, and paying for Iraq, Afghanistan, or the new Medicare prescription bill. Or for that matter, the cost of * photo ops...

Economist Paul Krugman states that in the long term our government is underfunded by one-third when you take into account social security and medicare.

Comments?

[Yupster]

16. My guess is

that someday we will inflate our way out of trouble. That's really the only way I can see us funding everything we said we'd fund.

[Yupster]

12. Using Muriel's numbers below

If your take-home pay is $ 3,572 per month.

You're spending $ 4,320 per month, or $ 748 per month more than you have.

I guess there are times in your life when this is okay, like wife staying home for a year or two with kids, or going back to school, but long-term of course this can't be sustained.

Is that what you're looking for?

[Timefortruth]

14. Thanks everyone!

That is what I needed. It says the that we currently owe about 4x our annual income and are spending at a rate of about 20% more than we take in, I wouldn’t be able to sleep if I did anything close to that.

Even if someone had a mortgage that was so disproportionate to their income, they would have the option of selling the house to retire the loan, the government doesn’t have a house to sell.

It really is the mess we thought it was.

[Hamlette]

15. another way to look at it. . .

these numbers are old and should be redone but when Reagan took office the national debt was $7,000 per US citizen. For my family of 3 that was $21,000.

The current debt is about $23,600 per US citizen. My family now owes $71,000.

In 23 years I put an additional $50,000 on my Visa card.

Remember too that 20 cents of every dollar the feds collect in taxes goes to pay the interest on that debt. You want to cut taxes, you can slash them mightily if you get rid of the interest.