Right Wing Violence

[Kanary]

On another forum, there was a post from a neocon saying that if Hillary had been shot down by terrorists, it would have been "doing us a favor".

In response, this URL was posted:
http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2003_11_23_dneiwert_archive.html#106970848149574609

Here are four paragraphs:

If I thought for a moment that talk about committing violence against
conservatives were as pervasive, especially in the public square, as it
currently is against liberals, I do not doubt that I would do my best to
attack it. But I almost never hear it from that sector now. For the past
twenty or more years, I've been hearing it from the far right. And it
deeply disturbs me when I begin hearing it from people who supposedly
operate within the mainstream.

One of the important things I learned as a cops-and-courts reporter
lo these many years ago was something about crime victims: That they
often make themselves vulnerable to violent crimes because they are
not prepared to deal with people who are sociopathic, or who exhibit
antisocial or narcissistic personality disorders, or in some cases outright
psychoses. That they project their own normalcy onto these other
people -- they really cannot believe that someone else would act in a
way substantially different from their own decent, sane base of
operations.

In a way, I think this is a large part of what is happening to our
national body politic: People in key positions of media and conservative
ideological prominence (Coulter, Limbaugh, even Bill O'Reilly) exhibit
multiple symptoms of being pathological sociopaths, either antisocial or
narcissistic, or a combination of both. And not only their fellow
participants in the conservative movement, but mainstream centrists
and even liberals are unable to figure out that there is something
seriously wrong with these people because they are projecting their
own normalcy onto them. They cannot perceive because they cannot
believe -- that, above all, these people are not operating within a
framework guided by the boundaries of basic decency that restrain
most of us.

They are political muggers out of control -- and as their rhetoric
encourages both the figurative and physical elimination of liberals, they
become ever more likely to actually tread into regions of real violence.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

1. Vonnegut refers to them as psycopathic personalities

http://www.inthesetimes.com/comments.php?id=38_0_4_0_C

I myself feel that our country, for whose Constitution I fought in a just war, might as well have been invaded by Martians and body snatchers. Sometimes I wish it had been. What has happened, though, is that it has been taken over by means of the sleaziest, low-comedy, Keystone Cops-style coup d’etat imaginable. And those now in charge of the federal government are upper-crust C-students who know no history or geography, plus not-so-closeted white supremacists, aka “Christians,” and plus, most frighteningly, psychopathic personalities, or “PPs.”

To say somebody is a PP is to make a perfectly respectable medical diagnosis, like saying he or she has appendicitis or athlete’s foot. The classic medical text on PPs is The Mask of Sanity by Dr. Hervey Cleckley. Read it! PPs are presentable, they know full well the suffering their actions may cause others, but they do not care. They cannot care because they are nuts. They have a screw loose!

And what syndrome better describes so many executives at Enron and WorldCom and on and on, who have enriched themselves while ruining their employees and investors and country, and who still feel as pure as the driven snow, no matter what anybody may say to or about them? And so many of these heartless PPs now hold big jobs in our federal government, as though they were leaders instead of sick.

What has allowed so many PPs to rise so high in corporations, and now in government, is that they are so decisive. Unlike normal people, they are never filled with doubts, for the simple reason that they cannot care what happens next. Simply can’t. Do this! Do that! Mobilize the reserves! Privatize the public schools! Attack Iraq! Cut health care! Tap everybody’s telephone! Cut taxes on the rich! Build a trillion-dollar missile shield! Fuck habeas corpus and the Sierra Club and In These Times, and kiss my ass!

BTW, The Mask of Sanity, the entire text is available online. Very enlightening read.

[Kanary]

2. Great quote and article!

Thanks, nothingshocksmeanymore, that's a great read. Although I think I might quibble with the "perfectly respectable" part of the diagnosis. ^_^

I'm sure that somewhere on the web there must be some psychs who have posted some "evals".

Actually, what I was wanting to point out is the rise of violence from the right. I don't think this is any small consideration.

Kanary

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

7. There was an article from a psyche not long ago evaluating Bush

I realized you were posting specifically about violence. I think the rhetoric coming from the right is right out of a Johns Hopkins playbook. They used this type of approach in Latin America to spur division so that they could continue their campaign down there.

[msmcghee]

8. Not to disagree, so much as to . .

. . add to the picture.

It seems to me that the politico-religious-zealots that you and Vonnegut place within the PP category - are more likely expressing the classic human response to threats from outside the tribe.

The RW had to turn things around so that otherwise normal Americans could be tricked into voting against their own interests. First, they made a major effort to place us outside the pale, as they did with increasing success throughout Clinton's whole administration.

Having succeeded placing us outside the pale, they were free to demonize us. That's what they've focussed on since 9/11. Now, pretty well demonized as America haters and Saddam sympathizers, they are free to destroy us.

They had to take these steps to overcome their own natural empathy and that of the voters in the middle they hope to attract - not as a result of their lack of empathy. I doubt that Palestinian suicide bombers are PP - if anything they are probably super-empathetic - toward the plight of their own families and people. It all depends on how successful you are at placing groups in or outside the pale. I think the RW understands that very well - and took it one step at a time - aided all the way by the so-called liberal press.

But you are right in that their behaviour points out a serious tear in our social fabric. When spokesmen with huge megaphones are applauded and paid large sums to demonizing those who disagree with the neo-con party line - we are very close to another episode in the human species' proven and well-documented ability to do the cruelest things imaginable to each other - over ideology.

Sadly, it may be, that only after a large number of liberals are killed (millions have already been imprisoned, more to come as Ashcroft's drug war kicks into high gear), are others likely to see the dangerous road they are on. That's the result of wedge issue politics, so lovingly embraced by the RW, taken to it's ultimate conclusion.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

9. In terms of the people that the people in control appeal to

I would agree. Insofar as those orchestrating this parade of horribles, I think Vonnegut called it. I appreciate your perspective and do see the truth in it.

[Kanary]

13. much food for thought

msmcghee, do you have any links or suggestions for further reading in what you are saying? I've read over your post a couple of times and would like to understand it more thoroughly.

I'm particularly interested in "overcoming their natural empathy". That's been the big sticking point for me.

Thanks so much for what you have added!

Kanary

[msmcghee]

14. I've just read a great book.

It's called "Sex, Time and Power" by Dr. Leonard Schlain. ISBN 0-670-03233-6. He discusses many interesting aspects of human evolutionary development that has made us who we are today. Tada'

One thing he hits well is how when our ancestors came out of the forest and onto the savannah - males had to become violent cold blooded killers to survive here where all the food had feet - as opposed to the females who remained nurturing gatherers.

In order for them also to become good team hunters and fathers and providers they had to develop a capacity for empathy to balance their violence - so they'd worry about their fellow hunters and care about their spouses and childeren and remember to bring food to them - and also to defuse their newly violent personalities at camp where they might direct them against children and women.

IMO at this same time males also had to develop the ability to place some selected humans "outside the pale" so they could repress the empathy they would ordinarily feel for them and so they could kill them. That would preserve their ability to defend the tribe from outside attack, for example (or attack another tribe and take over its territory). It's interesting how well the phrase "outside the pale" fits with this theory.

I think we've been "selected".

:toast:

[peacetalksforall]

10. To add to the tragedy...

they decisively manipulate decisive corporate owners of the media to manipulate former journalists into becoming decisive propagandists with a decisivly sweeping takeover of all cable and it appears the major networks.

[liberalmuse]

3. Great blog!

I've just added it to my 'Favorites'.

[Military Brat]

4. I'm in total agreement with the analysis

Coulter bemoans that the NYT building wasn't closer to Ground Zero, and the RW chuckles as if it were some harmless tongue-in-cheek comment. They just don't get it -- the bitch means what she's saying! That idiot Pat Robertson, he means what he says when he talks about nuking Foggy Bottom. Again the RW chuckles, bemused at his "rhetoric." Tsk, tsk.

The RW's attitude towards sociopathic tendencies amongst their own leads me to the inescapable conclusion that the mentally ill cannot recognize mental illness when they observe it in others.

[Kanary]

6. "the mentally ill cannot recognize mental illness when they observe it in

...others"

Very well and succinctly put! I'm thinking about some neocons I know IRL, and yup, I think that fits.

Has anybody been keeping a list of all these violent utterances? I'm beginning to think it would be a good idea.

Kanary

[nannygoat]

17. And don't forget holy pat robertson's recent

remark about "nuking Foggy Bottom". His comments should really be taken seriously, considering one of the third world dictators he is friends (Charles Taylor formerly of Liberia). with These freaks are out of control...

[camero]

5. Beautiful, Just Beautiful.

Great post. You hit the nail on the head.

Alot of times when someone suggests I do something devious, I realize that I don't have the ability to even think of something devious.

And you've made me realize that it is exactly that moral restraint that keeps me from thinking about harming another person.

We should also have some sense of moral indignation, which we probably do. Which explains our "hate" for the Bush Administration.

[Kanary]

21. Nail on the head

"And you've made me realize that it is exactly that moral restraint that keeps me from thinking about
harming another person."

I was particularly touched by your reply, because it's something that I've been concentrating on for years now. for me, iI wouldn't use the word "moral".... it's human and sensitive. I've struggled with it myself, as I've more and more encountered so many insensitive and harsh people. I can't stand up to it on a regular basis, and to try to armor myself against it means killing off the part of me that I most value. And that conflict makes me really *hate* this whole thing!

I also wanted to say, which relates to what you said about not being devious, is that it really hit me between the eys about people who are victims can't conceive of people who want to do them harm. It's so foreign to their way of thinking. That describes me, and gave me a bit of a shock. On the other hand, I really hate the feeling when I go around being suspicious!

Thanks for your thoughts!

Kanary

[SideshowScott]

11. It really is amazing how the right wingers embrace terrorism when ....

Its agianst Libs or Dems..

[Skittles]

12. Ms. Coulter is obviously deeply mentally disturbed

anyone listening to her insane, hysterical rantings should know that. Some people think it's all an act but I honestly believe she is quite ill. O'Reilly and Limbaugh are not so overtly crazy but nonetheless I see them as seething with hatred they simply cannot hide and increasingly cannot control.

[Cat Atomic]

16. Yep- but you know, I actually think O'Reilley is even

more deranged than Coulter is, if that's possible.

After watching his performance at that book club engagement with Al Franken and Molly Ivins, I read about 20 pages of his... umm... "novel". Christ- what a psychotic revenge fantasy that is. And it's absolutely transparent. His protagonist (if you can call him that), is a network news guy who sets off to get revenge on everyone who blocked his career. It's downright sick. There's no other word for it.

It certainly puts his quest for revenge against NPR into perspective. The man is a certifiable paranoid.

[Cat Atomic]

15. Very insightful commentary there. After reading it, the

right wing cries of "Bush hatred" seem more stunningly hypocritical than ever.

[snippy]

18. Right Wing Fantasies of Violence.

From one right wing republican's website:

The Usefulness of Civil Disobedience-Part II-The Bonhoffer Option

Note-I am NOT advocating the following fantasy episode, but it has a following in the darker parts of my mind.

WASHINGTON-January 6, 2004. A paramilitary organization calling itself the Christian Liberation Front changed the balance of power in Washington by a pair of brutal attacks this afternoon. A force estimated at about 200 CLF commandos stormed the Supreme Court building, killing 35 people, including five Supreme Court Justices. At the same time, a contingent of 1,000 CLF paramilitaries attacked the Hart Senate Office Building, where a Senate Democratic Caucus meeting was being held. Approximately 50 people were killed in the attack. Once the commandos had seized the building, they systematically killed Democratic senators from states with Republican governors. Here is a list of the 21 senators killed

Daniel Akaka Byron Dorgan Mary Landrieu
John Breaux Bob Graham Blanche Lincoln
Hillary Clinton Ernest Hollings Barbara Mikulski
Kent Conrad Daniel Inouyye David Pryor
Tom Daschle Tim Johnson Harry Reid
Mark Dayton Ted Kennedy Paul Sarbanes
Chris Dodd John Kerry Chuch Schumer

Joe Lieberman was campaigning in South Carolina, and missed the assassins. The attackers turned themselves in to police, and are proudly confessing their crimes, cooperating with authorities.

If the governors appoint Republican replacements, there will be 72 Republicans in the US Senate until replacement elections can be held. Even if a few Democrats are named, there will be likely at least 60 votes to vote for cloture and appoint replacements for the slain Supreme Court justices, changing the balance of power on the court.

OK, I'm ignoring Vermont, where the governor is a RINO, IIRC, and sparing Ben Nelson and Zell Miller as well. I'm also assuming that Bobby Jindal wins Saturday.

I'm also assuming that such bloodshed would be a good idea; I don't think it would. Would five extra conservatives on the Supreme Court and a filibuster-free Senate be worth the bloodshed? It is opposing evil, given some of the less-than-biblical decisions that have emanated from the court.

http://markbyron.typepad.com/main/2003/11/the_usefulness__1.html

Like Bush, this guy claims to be a Christian. As disturbing as this republican fantasy is, I find it even more disturbing that it was written in the context of civil disobedience.

[Kanary]

19. Thanks, snippy..... I think

I think I've seen this before, but I'm glad that you posted it here... this is *really* disturbing.

Can you imagine what would happen if one of us would post something like this, with the names of the right-wingers, on the web? There would be a knock on our door, and we'd be in Gitmo.

Christianity, indeed. Somebody wasn't paying attention in Sunday school.

Kanary

[Cat Atomic]

20. I wonder why Andrew Sullivan doesn't write an article about that?

I mean, surely it's representative of the conservative movement as a whole.

:eyes:

[guitar man]

22. This does not surprise me at all

It is the natural result of years of bombardment by RW hate media pundits AKA,Flush Rimjob and clones.


I am a fierce supporter of the 1st Amendment and free speech rights,and would never advocate silencing anyone,including the likes of Ann Coulter or even Michael Savage(damn that was hard to say!).

However,I do believe rights come with responsibilities,and I firmly believe people like the above deranged individual are the creation,at least in part,of these RW hate pundits. It was not good enough for them to engage in political debate with those they disagreed with,they had to take it to the extreme and paint fellow Americans who happen to disagree with their views as "enemies of the state" ad nauseum.

It is high time for the extreme RW neocon propaganda machine to have it's feet held to the fire for the damage they have done to our nation. The govt. can't do it though.It will take a whole lot of AMERICANS of good consciense to stand up and say enough is enough!

[Kanary]

23. That's precisely what USians Can't Seem To Do

"It will take a whole lot of AMERICANS
of good consciense to stand up and say enough is enough!"

Because of our entrenched rugged individualism, we citizens have a very hard time coming together to actually stand up to something. We just shrug and walk off. The right wing has managed to bring people together, and that is one of the reasons why they are enjoying so much power. Until/unless we are willing to come together instead of fighting each other, we'll just have to suck it up.

Kanary

[guitar man]

28. absolutely correct

The utter apathy in this country is appaling. I find it ironic that while the RW claims to be the "individuals",they are the ones in lockstep chanting the same mantra as it is fed to them over the airwaves.

[snippy]

25. Agreed.

[bobbieinok]

30. WHY BONHOEFFER option?????????

This is a deadly INSULT to what Bonhoeffer stood for.

[snippy]

31. Very true. But evidently not to the Reich wing fundamentalist mind.

[sangh0]

24. Anti-semitic right-wing violence in NYC

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/01/nyregion/01MBRF1.html

[milkyway]

26. My favorite blog. Highly recommended!

What makes David Neiwert's blog so great is that his arguments are reasoned rather than strident, which makes them much more powerful. Many of us feel that our country is creeping toward fascism. By reading Orcinus you realize that "fascism" is not just an insult to hurl at rightwingers, but an emerging reality. He's an academic that's studied the extreme right wing in America for decades. Reading his 87-page essay "Rush, Newspeak and Fascism" will send chills down your spine.

[Kanary]

27. Good point, milkyway

So many blogs are "vanity"... this one has much to chew on.

Just curious... how did you discover it?

Kanary

[Wapsie B]

29. Ok but isn't

saying something like that about a sitting US Senator cause to be given a visit by some nice people with Ray-Bans? Say the Secret Service?

[Kanary]

32. Correctamundo, bushwentawol!

In a *sane* world, that's what would happen.

But, if you read that article, that is *the* problem.... the Party of Cain can threaten violence, and it's funny and on target. We do it and it's treason.

Poop.

Kanary