Gephardt says Dean record of cuts not correct course

[quinnox]

"As Democrats, we're all angry at the failures of this administration. But frankly, I'm not interested in who can shout the loudest. I'm interested in getting something done."

— Dick Gephardt

Dick Gephardt outlined a bold vision for getting the federal budget back in balance. In a speech entitled "Jobs First: The Democratic Way to Balance the Budget," Gephardt touted the Democratic success in balancing the budget in 1993, outlined his approach to getting the budget back in balance and offered himself as a clear contrast to the failed policies of President Bush and former Vermont Governor Dean.

"Passing budgets driven largely by irresponsible and unfair tax cuts, George Bush has committed our country to the largest deficits in our history," Gephardt said. "We have an even deeper hole to climb out of than we did in 1993. But regardless, as far as I'm concerned, Social Security and Medicare will not be cut. Not while I'm president. There's no reason to cut these vital programs to balance the budget. And that's not hope or conjecture. That's a fact. In 1993, we passed an economic plan that led to a balanced budget while protecting Social Security and Medicare. We did it then, and we can do it again."

Gephardt also spoke about Howard Dean's record in Vermont. "Time after time, when faced with budget shortfalls, Howard Dean's first and only instinct was to cut," said Gephardt. "Cut education, cut prescription drug coverage, cut Medicaid funding, cut aid to the elderly, blind, and disabled. Howard Dean wears his bravado as a budget cutter like a badge of honor. But to me, where's the honor in saying quote 'we're willing to go after our own people's education, health, and welfare.' There is no place for governance without compassion. You can be proficient without empathy, but human lives deserve something more."

"I believe in a very different approach from Howard Dean. When we were faced with the same set of circumstances in 1993 at the federal level, we took a very different course. Fiscal responsibility is not amputation. It's finding the right balance of optimism, incentive, fairness, and opportunity. It's rising to a fiscal challenge with imagination and compassion, not clinical detachment and disdain for the unfortunate."

* Press Release

Time for a Democratic president NOT beholden to special interst groups like the NRA! Go Gep!

[_Jumper_]

1. Gephardt opposes elective cuts in social programs?

It sounds like Gephardt is from the "Democratic wing of the Democratic Party."

[quinnox]

3. Yup

And Gep can teach a thing or two to recent converts to the liberal wing, *cough* like Governor Dean.

[_Jumper_]

5. I strongly agree with Clark about the IWR and Democratic voters

Our party is making a major mistake by making who did or would have supported the IWR or IWR-lite the litmus test for the nomination. :scared:

[poskonig]

67. I wonder why?

;)

[sangh0]

15. Converts?

Or "poseurs"

[Hep]

26. Maybe, if

the democratic wing favors allowing social programs to grow to the point where they can not remain solvent. How does Gep or Kerry or ANYONE plan on NOT cutting growth of social programs but keeping their growth under control?

[KittyWampus]

29. Actually, Clark Proposed Cutting The Pentagon Budget

Dean, unable to do so for fear of being labelled Weak on Defense, must cut social programs.

Doing this restructures the entire Economy and allows for more growth in social spending.

Clark also has a very specific plan for creating jobs & growing the Economy by investing in Science & Technology (especially Alternative Energy and Environmentals).

[Hep]

31. BZZZZZT

Sorry, you lose.

I asked how anyone plans to keep the exponential growth of social programs like medicare at bay. You started talking about the pentagon. I need specifics not "investing in science and technology".

[sangh0]

35. Why do we have to cut Medicare?

There's nothing inappropriate about making cuts to provide the funds for new social programs.

Unless you're Dean or a supporter. Then you have to cut Medicare

[Kanary]

75. Cuts, restructuring: How many deaths??

"Dean, unable to do so for fear of being labelled Weak on Defense, must cut social programs.

Doing this restructures the entire Economy and allows for more growth in social spending."

How many deaths between the cuts and restructuring, and the "more growth"?

I realize it doesn't rate high on most people's gauges, but when it's YOUR life, it might seem a bit more important instead of just a toss-off.

So, how many deaths are acceptable? Anyone?

Kanary

[Forkboy]

2. "I'm interested in getting something done."

That's what scares me.Last time I saw him getting something done he was posing in the Rose Garden with our dickless leader.

[quinnox]

4. Yea, bring up that old thing

How many times do we have to hear about some old photoop.

As Kerry so rightly said, "Get over it".

[Forkboy]

7. yup...that old thing

that's costing lives right now.

[slinkerwink]

8. and has caused more civilian deaths.....

[Cocoa]

10. no it's not

that didn't cause the war, Bush did.

I still don't know if the war is an issue for me. If I decide that it is, I'm going with Kucinich, who is actually anti-war. I don't see Dean antiwar in the least.

[Scott Lee]

13. Diversion. No one is totally "antiwar" not even Kucinich

Would Dennis not fight if this nation were outright attacked with a frontal invasion? Oh, I bet he would. And rightly so.

The "antiwar" mantle is only relative. It depends on which wars you support and which ones you don't. Dean, in opposing the current Iraq war, is on the right side. As is Kucinich.

[sangh0]

22. Funny you should mention "diversion"

in a thread about how Gep attacked Dean's social spending where the Deanies respond by raising the IWR vote.

[Forkboy]

78. I brought it up

and I'm not a Deanie.Deal with it.

[sangh0]

16. It's called "Attack the critics, ignore the issues"

Notice, not one word about Dean's cuts. Even his supporters won't defend those.

That's why they love talking about IWR, no matter what the issue of the thread is. It's the only thing Dean got right.

[RetroLounge]

38. Your favorite line. But gets boring.

"Attack the critics, ignore the issues"

"Straw Man"

"Ad hominem"

I got one for you.

Bash Dean. Ad Nauseum...

edit: spelling

[sangh0]

60. No defense for Dean's Bush*-lite budget cuts

just "Attack the critics, ignore the issues"

Ad nauseum

[Forkboy]

79. Again,for the umpteenth time because you seem rather slow on the uptake

I'm not a Dean supporter.I brought up IWR.Deal with it.

And I'm glad you agree Dean was right.

[Hep]

23. get over it!

Why is it wrong for a freeper to say that but right for a democrat to say that? Also, how odd is it for someone to tell us to get over it when they spend so much time talking about what Dean said a decade ago?

Too much!

[RetroLounge]

36. Just that little old war...

... that little dickie supported...

[dansolo]

59. Get over it??

Look at how much money has been spent on the Iraq invasion. Haven't they committed over $160 billion on Iraq alone so far? How can I trust Gephardt to spend tax revenues wisely and balance the budget when he was so willing and eager to throw money into bombing Iraqis. Gephardt stabbed the Democrats in the back wrt the Iraq resolution. He made a deal with the White House without even consulting the rest of the Democratic Leadership, just because of his own political aspirations.

[loyalsister]

70. "that old thing"

was either a veteran politician (who REALLY should have known better!) having been quite easily, completely and totally duped or one of the single worst political miscalculations in history.
Do you really want this guy to run against a campaign that will have an astronomical financial advantage or do you truly want him sitting in the oval office when some self interested hawk brings him "evidence" of trouble which requires military action?

[Scott Lee]

11. Geppies want us to forget this - but we won't

Come on, suck it up!

[sangh0]

19. "There's no question that Saddam is a threat" - Howard Dean

as long as we're saying "Never forget"

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0210/05/cg.00.html

[killbotfactory]

32. But not an imminent one....

Thanks for playing.

[sangh0]

37. "I think the president did a great thing when he went to the Thanksgiving

dinner" - Dean

http://www.msnbc.com/news/1000254.asp?cp1=1

Thanks for playing.

[sangh0]

40. "I think he would be a good secretary of state, period"

Dean's description of Powell, the man who lied to the UN, the US, and the entire world.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/1000254.asp?cp1=1

[killbotfactory]

44. What does that prove?

That he read Colin Powell's books and liked them?

If Bush listened to Powell we wouldn't be in Iraq.

[sangh0]

46. So a good Secretary lies to the US, the UN and the world?

Do you approve of Powells lies? Are they "great"?

[killbotfactory]

50. He's doing his job.

Which required lying to the world. I don't respect him any more, but I don't care if Dean has a different opinion.

[sangh0]

53. Doing his job? Lying?

No wonder you support Dean.

[killbotfactory]

41. Your quote mangling skills are impressive.

But don't prove anything other than you can strip Dean quotes of context and make them sound bad. Congratulations.

[sangh0]

42. "I think he would be a good secretary of state, period"

point out which word is inaccurate

[HFishbine]

47. Ooooh, Oooooh, Oooooh, Mr. Kotter!!!

Straw man!!! Straw man!!!

Nobody said any words were "innacurate."

Thank you very much.

[sangh0]

54. That's certainly mature

but I was accussed of "mangling".

[HFishbine]

56. Exactly!

Now you're catching on.

[sangh0]

61. You're not

.

[Forkboy]

80. I think the bell is ringing

recess is over.

[maxanne]

6. perhaps

if he really was interested in getting things done and not shouting the loudest, he'd stop attacking Dean - and start attacking Bush.

The non-Dean candidates are making a big mistake in letting Dean be the focus of their campaigns.

[AP]

9. That's a very good quote, and it's the sort of thing a Democrat should...

...be saying.

If you have to go into defecit to make investments in the future and be good to the most vulnerable members of society, you do it. One thing we know is that our society can create a great deal of wealth. We don't people peoples lives and dignity on the line because of some slavish devotion to ballance budgets or unwillingness to ask the people who benefit the most to bear a little more of the burden.

[Cocoa]

12. "clinical detachment"

I like it, it's a nice little dig at the doctor thing.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

14. Gephardt's right

Dean is horribly "compassionate" in a Bush kind of way.

[WhosNext]

17. I want Dean economics

And I would advise our Party to adopt Dean's common sense approach to getting our economy and budget back on track.

[genius]

18. I"m for the middle class. That's why I don't support Dean's rich

benefactors and why I cannot vote for him. I don't want the people he hurts to be mad at me for voting for a guy who will cut services to help the rich.

[HFishbine]

20. Independent voter here

and one thing (among only a few) that has bothered me about some democrats is their propensity to call a decrease in the rate of spending growth a cut. It's disingenuous and Americans see right through it. It is an automatic rejection of the reasonable notion that programs can be made more efficient, waste eliminated and overlapping services eliminated.

Unless a politician is prepared to say that government is being run as efficiently as possible, it's bullshit to call a reduction the the rate of growth a cut. It's insulting when politicians play that game.

[Hep]

24. No one offers an alternative

At the last debate when Edwards was asked how he felt about the fact that if growth isn't controlled medicare would grow to a point of insolvency, NO ANSWER! NO ONE answered it. Least of all Kerry or Gep. So screwed up it's hard to believe.

[sangh0]

25. Not disingenous

Cuts in the rate of growth are cuts because the growth is usually the result of more people qualifying for the benefits. Cutting the rate of growth when the # of people eligible is increasing is a cut because it results in a cut in per capita spending.

[Hep]

21. Interested in getting something done!

Great job in congress, Gep!

Beholden to the NRA!

And all of this from the person who not a week ago complained that Dean gets all of the attention. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm wonder why! Even the supporters of other candidates can't stop talking about Dean!

[Eloriel]

27. How 'bout a candidate not beholden to ANY special interests?

That'd be Dean.

And if his position on guns, which I think is brilliant, doesn't suit you, don't vote for him. I frankly think that not only is a "no guns" position a losing one, it's impractical as all get out.

Eloriel

[blm]

30. Who has a "no guns" position? Or is that empty rhetoric meant to mislead?

.

[sangh0]

33. blm, don't you know the NRA is NOT a special interest?

At least, that's what my Republican friends tell me :-)

[HFishbine]

43. Who said the NRA wasn't special interest?

Or is that empty rhetoric meant to mislead?

[sangh0]

48. You're kidding, right?

Have the Deanies become that inured to contradictions?

[blm]

58. I want to know who is spreading the GOP meme that Dems want "no guns"

the way Eloriel is doing in her post.

[sangh0]

63. My answer - The Republicans

and Eloriel.

[KittyWampus]

64. Yes, But Dean Got Endorsed By AFL-CIO Who Helped Fund Venezuelan Coup

Therefore Dean is beholden to the AFL-CIO's agenda which obviously includes getting rid of Hugo Chavez.

Isn't that right eloriel

[Bandit]

28. Where was Gep in 1993 when President Clinton wanted a stimulus

package or The Health Care Plan the Clintons put together. He was there for the Budget Plan the President put forward but that was about the last time he backed the President. Sometimes the Democrats are their own worse enemies.

[sangh0]

34. Where was Dean?

Out stumping for a Balanced Budget Amendment which would make Clinton's health insurance scheme impossible to pass.

[BrewCrew]

45. Bandit... where are you getting your information

Besides some disagreements on trade (China PNTR and NAFTA) and the 1997 Budget, Dick Gephardt led the fight for the passage of every Clinton budget (except 1997). Also, it was his name on the health care bill Hillary proposed? In fact according to Congressional Quarterly, Gephardt supported the Clinton position on bills proposed in the US House a high % of time. The guy carried a lot of water for Clinton and fought Newt Gingrich tooth and nail everyday, as Newt, Armey and Delay were trying to screw Clinton daily in the House. democrats were lucky to get anything accomplished with those bozos leading the opposition and thanks to gephardt we did. You may think he's shit now, but give him some credit.


CQ Voting
Presidential Support Table
Year Support Oppose
2002--W 33% 67%
2001---W 29% 71%
2000---Bill 83% 17%
1999 88% 12%
1998 82% 18%
1997 76% 24%
1996 82% 18%
1995 85% 15%
1994 91% 9%
1993 91% 9%

[sangh0]

49. some Dean's supporters must ignore every Dem achievement

in order to make their candidate seem like an "outsider" and the others as "spineless"

[deutsey]

66. Yes, they've done smashingly well since 2000.

:eyes:

[sangh0]

76. Judicial filibusters, defeating Bush*'s energy bill

extending unemployment benefits, eliminating school vouchers from Bush* Education bill, etc are of no concern to those who only care about Dean and his campaign.

Good thing some of us still worry about the poor.

[HFishbine]

55. Um

Can you clarify the percentages you just posted? Are they support for the president by the congress in total, the house or for Gephardt? (A link would be nice.)

[Bandit]

74. I didn't say budget ~ I said stimulus package and health care

Where was Gep on President Clinton's Stimulus Package of 1993? Where was he on Health Care?

[BrewCrew]

81. He was a strong backer of both

If you think otherwise, please give me links showing Gep didn't back those 2.

Gephardt led the House in passing President Clinton's 1993 economic plan. As Democratic Leader, Gephardt secured the single-vote victory of the plan — that not a single Republican supported. The result was seven straight years of unprecedented growth and prosperity, and the creation of more than 22 million jobs. (The Houston Chronicle, 8/6/93; Clinton White House website)

GEPHARDT: My thoughts come from 25 years of working on this issue in the Congress, including trying to lead the fight to pass the Clinton health care plan in 1993 & 1994. I believe my plan covers the bases and gets down what we need to get done. First of all, it covers everybody. I do it by requiring every employer to cover all of their employees. I cover part time as well as full time. One of the games that's going on is companies like WalMart are dropping people to part time so they don't have to give them health insurance. I solve that problem. This issue is the moral issue of our time. You've got to treat everybody fairly. I give an equal subsidy, 60% of the costs of health care, to public employees. There is not another plan on the table that does that.

Source: AFSCME union debate in Iowa May 17, 2003
http://www.issues2000.org/2004/Dick_Gephardt_Health_Care.htm

[killbotfactory]

39. Gephardt is unelectable

He's a tax and spend liberal who is weak on defense, endorses gay marriage, and wants to raise taxes.

Tell me that's not how Rove would spin it.

Oh, I'm sorry, this stupid arguement can only be used against Dean because he's the annointed "unelectable candidate". I forgot.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

51. He's a hell of a lot more electable than Dean

and he'd win Missouri which we need.

[killbotfactory]

52. He's a charisma-lacking, skelator-looking, has been.

Misourri is the only state he'd win.

[slinkerwink]

57. sad but true.....

;-)

[blm]

62. And Dean thinks Gep is "too liberal" for him.

Don't forget that.

[slinkerwink]

65. that's true....and Geppy is also a weak-kneed Democrat who

stood with Bush in the Rose Garden.

[blm]

69. as opposed to supporting the Biden-Lugar bill like Kerry and Dean?

You know, the one Dean forgets about whenever he attacks the others on IWR when B-L had the same provision that allowed Bush to make the "determination" that use of force was needed?

[KittyWampus]

71. Dean Is An AFL-CIO Lackey Who Will Work To Overthrow Hugo Chavez

After all the AFL-CIO funded Chavez critics and groups working against him in Venezuela....

The Venezuelan Coup is on the AFL-CIO agenda. And since Dean got their endorsement of course he'll do their bidding.

So this is why Dean won't cut Pentagon Funding... nor will he stand up against Anti Union "Right To Work" laws.
Dean and the Union bigwigs don't care about the little guy. They are in the pocket of the Corporate Masters and Neo-cons.



"Of particular concern is $154,377 given by the endowment to the American Center for International Labor
Solidarity, the international arm of the A.F.L.-C.I.O., to assist the main Venezuelan labor union in advancing
labor rights.

The Venezuelan union, the Confederation of Venezuelan Workers, led the work stoppages that galvanized
the opposition to Mr. Chavez. The union's leader, Carlos Ortega, worked closely with Pedro Carmona
Estanga, the businessman who briefly took over from Mr. Chavez, in challenging the government.

The endowment also provided significant resources to the foreign policy wings of the Republican and
Democratic parties for work in Venezuela, which sponsored trips to Washington by Chavez's critics."

[Zomby Woof]

77. zing!

Have to agree there. Gep has always been a spineless weasel. From his support of an anti-choice Constitutional amendment in the early 80's, to his kowtowing for the Bush war and Patriot Act, the eyebrowless wonder needs a one-way ticket back to Missouri.

Hell, if you think I am hard on Dean, just imagine what I would say about Gephardt if he were the frontrunner. ;-)

[killbotfactory]

68. Must have been why he campaigned for him in '88

Good ol' unelectable Gephardt.

[blm]

73. despite the fact that Gep was "too liberal" for him.

Wonder why Dean tried to sabotage Gephardt by saying that back in 88?

Come to think of it, Dean said the same thing about Dukakis. Why would Dean try to sabotage our Dem candidates by saying they were "too liberal" for him?

And we're supposed to shut our mouths about Dean being "too conservative" or "too Libertarian" for us?

[loyalsister]

72. Missouri?

I'm not so sure Gep would win here. Guns are a big issue with rural voters here. On the other hand, the college students are not going to go for him if there is a Green in the race. It would be difficult for him to win his home state.