Clark's democratic spirit - Why I like the Man

[Justice]

Apologies if this is a dupe post.

Clark's closing statement last night in Exeter NH was really inspiring (IMO both for Clark supporters and others).

Clark explained that he was running as a call to service, that he didn't plan for this, didn't approach his life or career choices for this - but that people drafted him and really demanded that he serve his country -- I liked that - it is true and for me is the answer to folks who keep saying he shouldn't win because he is not a politican (not being a politican is one of his high points IMO).

Anyway, he summed up his remarks by saying (I think this is virtually word for word) these amazing words --

"we have a president that will run for office next year using national security, patriotism and the american flag to crush the Democratic party and the democratic spirit - and I am running because we cannot let that happen"

These words speak to all of us - I like his focus on Big D democrats and on the little d democratic spirit. Wesley says country before party - he is here because he believes in our democracy and wants to fight for it.

I encourage all of you to think both about your candidate and about our democracy - we can't let Bush crush us us our party spirit or our spirit for our great country. We are fighting against them, and not against each other.

[KittyWampus]

1. Yes! Clark Is About Public Service & Unity

He has the potential to win DECISIVELY with a MANDATE for change which no other Democrat running can do.

Some of the other Dems may squeak in- but Diebold makes this a losing proposition...

Clark says right out "I'm not running to BASH Bush I'm running to REPLACE him".

That is what Democrats, Independants and moderate Republicans will vote for.

[DemExpat]

2. Yes, his "country above party " spirit inspires me with some hope

for our future.

Thanks,

DemEx

[OKNancy]

3. Here is a more exact quote:

For me this is a call to service...

The clinching argument was delivered by my son who is a 33 year old screenwriter in Hollywood. When my wife was a little bit concerned and said she didn't really want to - didn't think we needed to do this - thought we'd done enough.

And my son said - he said, "Mom." He said, "You can't say that." He said, "This family has always stood for public service. That's why you moved me from school to school and house to house." And he said, "You just have to think and ask yourself this question. How safe will your new grandchild be if Dad isn't President?"

So for me it's a very personal mission. I'm in this for public service. It's not something I worked for all my life. It's not something planned or plotted for. It's not that because this is the best opportunity or the last opportunity or anything of the sort. I'm here because I think America is in trouble. And I think that we are going to be running in 2004 in an election in which a President is going to unscrupulously use national security, patriotism, and the American flag to try to crush the Democratic Party. And he's going to try to crush the democratic spirit in America. I'm running because that must not happen to our country. And I need your support. Thank you.

[Justice]

5. Thanks

of course it sounds much more compelling than my cobbled version.

Call me goofy, but I literally started clapping for the man in my liviing room when he said that.

[StuckinBuffalo]

4. Thank You for that

Clark should be the Democratic candidate IMO since it looks more and more like Gore will not throw his hat in the ring. {{{sniff}}} {{{sniff}}}

[Kahuna]

26. I love Gore too. And I see Clark as the champion for Gore..

who will crush the bushistas and expose their crimes against America. When Clark is finished with the bushies, Gore will be vindicated and that * will remain next to smirky's name, evermore.

[in_cog_ni_to]

6. Not being a career politician,

is definitely a plus for Clark...in my book. Clark WILL NOT lose to the shrub if he wins the nomination. He's a shoe-in and the administration KNOWS it!

[CWebster]

7. "democratic spirit", eh?

Sort of like our adventures in bringing "democracy" to Latin America, by training natives in the School of the Americas to slaughter their own--or through organizations like the NED, the National Endowment for Democracy deliberately instituted to carry on the CIA's covert activities to undermine foreign countries and have them conform to the American interpretation of "making the world safe for democracy" to protect US corporate interests.

Yeah, I'll betcha ol' Wesley understands that version of Democracy when it comes to "success" in Iraq to compensate for the perceived loss of honor in Viet Nam.

[Justice]

8. You Just Couldn't Stay Away Huh?

Funny, too funny.

I respect your right to say what you want. You are however, wrong.

[CWebster]

9. Why should I have to "stay away"?

This doesn't have to do with supporting any candidate, it has to do with the truth.

[Justice]

10. Ahh, Right.

[Renew Deal]

17. You had a chance to talk to him.

Why didn't you ask him about this stuff? Are you scared of the answers or that you might like him?

[roughsatori]

16. I guess you plan to drop depleted uranium or plant land-mines

to keep CW away. I know those are acceptable behaviors for many Clark supporters. Some of you would "yawn" if you saw a child's leg blown off by an abandoned mine left by the General.

Oh that's right--last week one of the Clark brain-trust members informed another DUer that it was more that DUers fault as a citizen then it was Clark's. After all he was "just doing his job."

[KittyWampus]

18. Now What Is Dean's Position On DU?

Waiting waiting waiting...

[roughsatori]

20. I support Kucinich

But Clarkies complaining about Dean is the most amusing thing at DU anymore.

[KittyWampus]

29. What's Kucinich's Stance On DU?

Oh, that's right. Dennis has no chance of winning so he can commit political suicide by coming out against it during the Primaries...

Yeah, there's nothing like a bunch of screaming leftwing radicals harping on a subject that contains the work Uranium... although they leave off the Depleted part....

Like Caldicott who talks about aerosolized DU when, if fact, that isn't what happens on the battlefield.

The only benefit that comes from discussing DU as an issue right now, on the NATIONAL stage, is the Green Party and the GOP.

[roughsatori]

11. When he spoke at SOA he was just doing his job like Eichman did his

"The Banality of Evil" by Arendt is a book I think of more and more in regards to Clark.

Last week I asked a Clark supporter if they could give me a list of progressive things Clark had DONE in his life--not said--but a record of action. She replied that he was a "General who was progressive in the way he waged war."

"War us Peace" is a phrase I expected from a Bushie but never thought that would be a defense used here.

[WillyBrandt]

12. Eichmann, eh?

Any other deep comparisons to offer to us, the Benighted?

[roughsatori]

19. Wow your retort has an anti-intellectual edge that is hardly surprising

I do think that Clark's speaking at SOA and the Republican Fundraiser were equivalents to the "banality of evil." But you will twist that and skip those points. I did not say he was EXACTLY like Eichmann but you may not understand that it is possible to compare parts of two wholes. (And yes the pun was intended.)

[WillyBrandt]

23. How is it like the banality of evil

Applying that phrase to speaking to the SOA doesn't make sense at all.

The banality of evil refers to evil being performed, without the urging of a hateful heart, or with the passion of evil men. When Arendt applied it to Eichmann, it referred to the performance of evil as merely another bureaucratic task, divorced from the underlying suffering--neither wanting it or distasting it, merely going along with it so that one could receive a paycheck, climb a social rung, whatever.

One of the highlights of Eichmann in Jerusalem was how normal Eichmann appeared. He wasn't particulary bloodthirsty or hateful. He was an ordinary German performing evil in an extraordinary time.

How the hell does that apply to Clark? (I'll give you a few minutes as you cobble together some nonsense logical mumbo jumbo.)

Maybe you're confusing "just following orders" to the "banality of evil". Maybe you're slinging rhetorical feces, hoping something will stick.

Now, issues in this moral domain are, granted, difficult to speak clearly about. But if you can't do it, just don't try. Find less pretentious ways to bash Clark.

You know, whereof one cannot speak...

[bicentennial_baby]

31. I hear crickets chirping...

I guess someone has'nt come up with a witty retort yet...no surprise there!

[WillyBrandt]

25. "an anti-intellectual edge that is hardly surprising"

I'm going to remember that phrase for weeks. Anyway, continue try to maximize the ratio

pretense
--------
substance

It's rising towards infinity rapidly.

[KittyWampus]

15. Howard Dean Gets Backing From Union Involved In Venezuelan Coup

Since recieving support for the two biggest Unions in the AFL-CIO, Dean will be beholden to them and their agenda which includes trying to oust Chavez in Venezuela.

The AFL-CIO has given money to critics of Chavez and those trying to depose him.

Dean & Union leaders doesn't care about workers...

Why do you think Dean won't stand up against anti-Union "Right To Work" Laws?

Dean is in league with the NeoCon agenda. That is why he won't cut Pentagon funding.

[CWebster]

27. not quite

The Endowment has four principal initial recipients of funds: the International Republican Institute; the National Democratic Institute for International Affairs; an affiliate of the AFL-CIO (such as the American Center for International Labor Solidarity); and an affiliate of the Chamber of Commerce (such as the Center for International Private Enterprise). These institutions then disburse funds to other institutions in the US and all over the world, which then often disburse funds to yet other organizations.
In a multitude of ways, NED meddles in the internal affairs of foreign countries by supplying funds, technical know-how, training, educational materials, computers, fax machines, copiers, automobiles and so on, to selected political groups, civic organizations, labor unions, dissident movements, student groups, book publishers, newspapers, other media, etc. NED programs generally impart the basic philosophy that working people and other citizens are best served under a system of free enterprise, class cooperation, collective bargaining, minimal government intervention in the economy and opposition to socialism in any shape or form. A freemarket economy is equated with democracy, reform and growth, and the merits of foreign investment are emphasized.
From 1994 to 1996, NED awarded 15 grants, totaling more than $2,500,000, to the American Institute for Free Labor Development, an organization used by the CIA for decades to subvert progressive labor unions. AlFLD's work within Third World unions typically involved a considerable educational effort very similar to the basic NED philosophy described above. The description of one of the 1996 NED grants to AIFLD includes as one its objectives: "build union-management cooperation". Like many things that NED says, this sounds innocuous, if not positive, but these in fact are ideological code words meaning "keep the labor agitation down...don't rock the status quo boat". The relationship between NED and AIFLD very well captures the CIA origins of NED.
The Endowment has funded centrist and rightist labor organizations to help them oppose those unions which were too militantly proworker. This has taken place in France, Portugal and Spain amongst many other places. In France, during the 1983-4 period, NED supported a "trade union-like organization for professors and students" to counter "left-wing organizations of professors". To this end it funded a series of seminars and the publication of posters, books and pamphlets such as "Subversion and the Theology of Revolution" and "Neutralism or Liberty". ("Neutralism" here refers to being unaligned in the Cold War.)

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/TrojanHorse_RS.html

Note this especially:

The description of one of the 1996 NED grants to AIFLD includes as one its objectives: "build union-management cooperation". Like many things that NED says, this sounds innocuous, if not positive, but these in fact are ideological code words meaning "keep the labor agitation down...don't rock the status quo boat". The relationship between NED and AIFLD very well captures the CIA origins of NED.

Now recall Clark's views on labor, economy and regulation where he advocates building union-management cooperation.

[ozone_man]

22. Clark and "democratic" in the same sentence

seems to invite a talk about NED doesn't it? My mind was think the same thoughts.

[Bread and Circus]

13. You forgot that he called the GOP unscrupulous in his closing remarks...

[WillyBrandt]

14. familydoctor, don't you know that Clark is a Nazi?

Read a few posts above for comprehensive arguments by the fairest people on DU.

[roughsatori]

21. So now you are clearly telling a lie. I never said he was a Nazi

Just that I consider some of his actions to be evil--and that the defense that he "was just doing his job" is one that was used by Nazis. But you have a history here of obfuscating and invention when responding to others posts. And when you ask for a link--just read above as you yourself proposed.

[WillyBrandt]

24. I apologize

You did not call Clark a Nazi. You merely compared him to Adolph Eichmann, murderer of millions, enemy of humanity.

I will take greater care to draw my distinctions more finely, just as you take such great care when crafting analogies with monsters.

[Marines for Clark]

28. Clark is the man!!!!!!

Clark is wonderful !!!!!!1 I love to see these jealous folks who are supporting a draft dodger with no guts

[in_cog_ni_to]

30. All along,

I thought our MAIN objective was to get the shrub out of President Al Gore's White House? Clark is the man who can do it....no doubt in my mind. There's no way in hell the shrub can win against Clark. I like placing my bets on a "for sure" 2004 win.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

32. i like Clark too

[democratreformed]

33. General Clark has answered our call

and that, to me, is inspiring. Don't care what anyone else thinks.