No more signature lines that attack Democrats

[Skinner]

We have noticed a disturbing trend recently. There are some people who have been dragging signature lines around the message board that attack Democratic presidential candidates. Recently, some have even taken to posting large, inflammatory graphics attacking candidates in their signature lines.

This behavior is extremely disruptive and anti-social. And to be honest, I thought that our members had enough class to refrain from this type of thing on their own. Apparently, I was wrong. So once again I have to create a rule so that grown men and women will behave in a way that they should be behaving anyway.

As is typical in cases like these, the problem people are not newbies or stealth freepers -- they are long-time members with thousands of posts. Of course, the "newbies and freepers" myth will endure.

If you are attacking a Democrat in your signature line, you must change your signature line immediately.

If you see someone with a signature line attacking a Democrat, please hit alert and explain that you are alerting the signature line.

Thank you for your understanding.

Skinner
DU Admin

[Moderator]

1. kick

[theivoryqueen]

6. retarded and redundant question...

I have asked on other postings, but no one ever answered - what is this "kick" - and "n/t" ???

[returnable]

10. Here ya go

A "kick" means someone is just posting to boost the thread back to the top of the forum.

"n/t" means there's no text in the post - the subject line is the entire message

:hi:

[Skinner]

11. "kick"

"kick" is posted when the person wished to kick a thread topic back to the top of the forum, but doesn't add any comments.

[theivoryqueen]

15. Thanks all!

[Cush]

kick & nt

Kick means kicking the post up to the top of the page. If the post is at the bottom of the page....people will "Kick" just to move it back up to the top so more people can see it. "Bump" means the same.

N/T stands for No Text

[wryter2000]

12. Kick

:Kick: is adding to the thread to keep it on the front page. With all the traffic here, it's easy for things to drop off before everyone's had a chance to look at them.

[Bunny]

13. "kick" means you are bumping the post up to the top.

To keep it more visible. n/t means "no text", i.e., there's no message in the body of your post, just your subject line.

[Wonk]

103. kick (nt)

[minkyboodle]

109. kick

I need post 100 damnit :)
Scott

[grannylib]

2. Thanks for this. I was disturbed by this too. Support whom you choose

but respect the rights of others to do the same; engage in honest, meaningful dialogue in an effort to promote knowledge and understanding - I think it can be done without trampling on others.
And as has been said before, the main focus is unseating Bush and his cronies...that must be primary.

[HFishbine]

3. Thank you

:thumbsup:

[Freddie Stubbs]

Muchas gracias

[xultar]

4. Thanks, I like your style! n/t

[CO Liberal]

5. What About Non-Candidate Democrats?

I've seen sig lines that attack FDR.......

[JohnKleeb]

7. Your sigline is what Ive been using for a while

My favorite Bobbyism and attacking FDR :(, FDR was great.

[Skinner]

8. This covers *all* Democrats.

(And the person you are referring to has been banned.)

[Jeff in Cincinnati]

80. Lyndon LaRouche ran as a Democrat

Is there a codicil that allows us to attack completely whacked-out pinheads that pass themselves off as Democrats?

[Screaming Lord Byron]

114. Well, it does include Zell, it seems.

[Jeff in Cincinnati]

116. I was going to make that point

but I didn't want to get spanked by the Moderators.

...unless they buy me a drink first.

[wryter2000]

9. Thank you

You have a lot more patience that I have.

:yourock:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

14. Oops my bad..never mind

You said sig lines..I read headlines

Ok I'll take the Klintoon suck a Dashole too out of my sig :evilgrin:

[Don_G]

16. Kick

[TrueAmerican]

17. This is good too see

Bravo! I am not naming names, but one candidate's supporters were drifting way out of line.

[Patriot_Spear]

18. WWHHHAAATT?! ...we can't eat our own?!

How refreshing to see common sense rule for a change. The only person I'm going to attack is Ralph Nader of the GreenOP Party.

...and he sure as hell ain't no Democrat!

[THUNDER HANDS]

19. I hope nobody considers my Dean sig an attack on him

I meant it in a loving way. The Deaninator. :D

[Eloriel]

20. I do

Of course, that don't carry no weight, but I wanted you to know anyway.

Eloriel

[THUNDER HANDS]

21. yeah, but saying Dean's tie is crooked would set you off

:D

[CWebster]

24. No

well it bothers me too. And it really bothered me when someone had that shot, without the borg accessories, as half of their posting space. Should we all go searching for unflattering shots to photoshop and broadcast them to each other? Next you'll be finding them on Republican campaign ads.

[THUNDER HANDS]

30. why do you consider it unflattering?

It's Dean being angry and passionate. I thought that's what people like about him?

It's what I like about him, anyway.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

49. It is a little disturbing, but if you want it, it's none of my business nt

[AntiCoup2K4]

57. It doesn't bother me that much, but...

...you gotta admit comparing Dean to Ahnold ain't exactly flattery.

[Capn Sunshine]

77. It's NOT crooked! It's slightly left of center!!!!

:hi:

[Skinner]

28. I consider your sig to be an attack on Dean.

You need to remove it.

[Mattforclark]

22. Good call

hopefully this will help create more civility...

[denverbill]

23. Skinner, you're naive if you think there aren't freepers

here with thousands of posts.

I didn't see the offending line, so I'm not saying that person was definitely a freeper, but I am virtually positive that there are long, long-term posters here who would never vote for a Democrat more liberal than George Wallace.

[Skinner]

27. I think you miss my point.

Sure, there are freepers.

But they don't cause most of our civility problems. Our civility problems are caused by our "friends." And the perpetuation of the "newbies and freepers" myth only helps them keep causing problems.

[Dr Satan]

25. I have a serious question

Explain how this is an issue of class or maturity.
Nobody will disagree with me that attacks on Bush are acceptable.
So logically, how are attacks on any politician unclassy?
You dedicated a whole thread to BASHING Nader.
Is that your definition of class or maturity?
Why not admit that this is an issue of CONTROL?

[Skinner]

35. Ah, yes, of course. This is about control.

Look, I'm just doing the best I can to make things a little more civil around here. This doesn't seem to be a particularly onerous rule to comply with.

And I certainly did not dedicate an entire thread to bashing Nader. I dedicated an entire thread to discussing Nader.

If you think these rules are too harsh, I would point out that nobody is forcing you to participate here.

[Dr Satan]

42. Im done with this place

you should rename it partisan-hypocrites.com
Be honest.

peace

[_NorCal_D_]

47. So long!

:hi:

[Screaming Lord Byron]

50. don't you just hate people who insult you, then say 'peace'

like they didn't mean it?

[WoodrowFan]

113. I thought it was irony.

I thought it was irony. Or then again, maybe it's just just a reflex on his part with no actual thought behind it.,

[Shakespeare]

51. Don't let the back door hit ya....

...where the good lord split ya.

Your former sig line was offensive in the extreme; glad it's gone.

[boxster]

68. See ya.

:eyes:

[brainshrub]

79. Bye!

Have a nice day!

[Cheswick2.0]

82. yes it is unfair that people are allowed to bash an opposition candidate

like Nader.
Perhaps you can find GreenUnderground somewhere on the internet Al Gore created.

[CWebster]

112. C'mon guys

No need to be hostile like this and jump on this guy. Everyone has their quiting moments.

[La_Serpiente]

26. Sorry guys

about the Lieberman bash. There is an thread a couple notches up that explains my posistion on the matter.

[Renew Deal]

29. The Lieberman one was great

but Skinner is right. I was considering revenge on a couple nasty ones I saw. Now I don't have to worry about it.

[Walt Starr]

31. Save Martha!

She's a Democrat.

:)

[thisday]

32. let's put the "civil" back in civilization.

in words, if not in deed.but bring a gun to a knife fight.

[fishnfla]

33. "long term members with thousands of posts"

how progressive!

edit to ask: are these the same ones who had the most deleted messages, I wonder?

[quinnox]

34. Since I have sigs turned off I wasn't aware of

this, but I can get a hint from reading the responses. Let me guess, Lieberman and Gephardt were the two most targeted, lol. Just a wild guess.

[Skinner]

37. Actually, no.

A non-scientific look at purely anecdotal evidence suggests that Dean and Clark were the most targeted.

[messiah]

36. What next

no more threads bashing republican-lite democrats?. These rules are getting little on the "extreme" side aren't they?.

[Skinner]

38. Ah, yes. The slippery slope argument.

Today it's sig lines attacking Democrats. Tomorrow it's entire discussions of important topics.

[messiah]

46. Well

the DU community is becoming very big. There should be arguments presented from both sides of a issue and then the issue should be put to a vote no matter how small or big it is that's just my opinion.

[Skinner]

Yes. It is just your opinion.

This is not a democracy.

[Voltaire99]

84. "This is not a democracy"

There's a lot of that going around, actually.

Of course private message boards need rules. But not all rules are wise.

You don't appear to have thought deeply or very well about what "sigs attacking Democrats" means, Skinner. Valid criticisms are often expressed as attacks - particularly in politics. Do you want to throttle valid criticism?

In fact, in primaries, competition within a party is the essence of the race. Competitors criticize each other. Partisans of those competitors do, too. That's been going on a long time - and if we want to have a real democracy in our nation, let's hope it goes on forever.

Even though I don't have a sig criticizing a candiate, I'm afraid the net effect of your decision is to infantilize discussion. That's hardly consistent with calling yourself an "underground" - a name that conjures and invites dissent. There are already plenty of places to toe the line. Why be just another?

[Hep]

94. Here's the problem

You don't reply to sigs. The sig is in EVERY post a person makes. It's NOT discourse. It's a bumper sticker. I personally HATE bumper sticker activism. If we treated sigs like arguments then EVERY thread would become about the sig.

Bashing sig files is just a jab. That's it. You have unlimited choices for you sig. Choosing a derogatory sig above anything else reflects a mentality mentioned in MY sig.

On edit: I used the word "sig" 8 times in that post. Um, nine.

[Hep]

81. Wait until your barcode comes in the mail

It goes on your forehead and it's IRON ON!

Cut the mods some slack. YOu have no idea how tough their job is, dealing with people like me.

;)

[Nlighten1]

39. Is this one ok?

:)

[Renew Deal]

40. lol

Very nice

[_NorCal_D_]

44. Looks OK to me.

B-)

[Pastiche423]

56. Shouldn't that be...

No Democrats were harmed in the making of this signature?

[Nlighten1]

69. you are write.

:)

[sangh0]

67. LOL!!

Thanks for the chuckles

[BootinUp]

41. Thanks Skinner its an excellent idea...n/t

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

43. Even Zell?

:toast:

Great idea. Things been getting a bit ugly.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

52. I think we can safely consider Zell beyond the pale,eh?

If he's a Democrat, then so's John McCain!

[AntiCoup2K4]

60. Hell, McCain's probably MORE of a Dem than Zell

Chafee and a couple others as well.

[ldoolin]

45. Good move

Good move...and if I may offer another suggestion, regarding all the Clark-bashing, Dean-bashing, Kucinich-bashing etc. threads that a few people keep starting in the general discussion forum, maybe threads like that could be moved to another forum as a matter of policy?

While I understand the need to debate the different candidates during the primary election season, maybe there should be one forum set aside for that besides the general discussion forum? I support getting Bush out of office and support whoever the Democratic nominee is going to be (even if it's Lieberman, despite my personal distaste for him.) My interest is helping the Democratic Party win, and kicking the Repukes to kingdom come. I don't participate in the candidate-bashing threads and try to ignore them. They look like clutter, I think they're counterproductive, and a lot of them look like the same attacks on Dean, Clark, etc. being posted over and over again by a few people. Might it be possible to move all the candidate-bashing threads to one single forum and let the few people who want to do so duke it out there?

[Selwynn]

48. Skinner you assume they are "grown men and women"

:)

[BiggJawn]

53. Can I....

Still claim to be embarrased by and not have voted for the Bastard-In-Cheif in MY sig line?

[Screaming Lord Byron]

54. Skinner, I'm not just being facetious but, what's your stance on Zell?

I'm not about to have an anti-Zell Miller message, but I just wanted to know what you think about this. Is he to be considered a Democrat?

[eleny]

62. I believe that Skinner's rule refers to Dem Pres candidates n/t

[Screaming Lord Byron]

63. Of course, I was just wondering if DU had an official line about Zell.

On edit - god that sounds Orwellian. It was just a personal interest thing, to hear what Skinner thought about Miller.

[eleny]

65. I'm looking forward to his answer, too, actually

Some more clarity about anti Dem threads is of interest to me, as well.

[Skinner]

70. I am not going to make an exception for anyone.

Because then everyone is going to ask for an exception for the person that they hate.

This rule only refers to signature lines. It's not that onerous.

[Le Taz Hot]

55. Kick!

:kick: Just 'cause.

[myopinion]

58. What makes us different and better than the repub's

Because we speak our minds and don’t follow lock step to the party mantra.

Can we all agree to disagree?
I like
Dean 1
Kerry 2
Clark 3
Edwards 4
The common goad is to get bush and his partner felons out it think, I would vote for any of this four.
bush and his gang are stealing us blind, that what I meant about balancing the budget, every bill the repuks pass is stuffed with pork for their buddies.
We can spend responsible without cuts in social programs, it is possible, Dean makes since if you take the time to listen to him.

Enough said thanks.

[NNN0LHI]

59. You have one tough job Skinner. I am sure I could not do it

I don't know too many people who could. I would overamp trying to do it. DU has got to be a labor of love for you. Sure am glad that you are able to do it though. Thanks so much for this site.

Don

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

61. Oh, Good!! How about a Loyalty Oath, too?

Perhaps you could institute something akin to HUAC to make sure members toe the party line. We all know that Democrats are always above reproach.

Be nice little boys and girls..we wouldn't to hurt anyone's feelings. After all, we Democrats are polite and courteous to all. Just observe our candidates as they discuss the issues in a mature and dignified fashion. They wouldn't dream of doing things like appear on SNL or drive motorcycles around on TV shows, or play the sax (badly), or kiss babies, or say really stupid things.

On a more serious note. I, for one, find the antics (and votes) of some Democrats every bit as repugnant as that of the repuglies. We see many threads here admonishing us to "speak no ill of fellow Democrats". Are they above reproach because they have a (D) after their names? Are Democrats so thin skinned that they can't stand criticism or questioning of their positions? Are we expected to march lock step to the voting booth and pull the lever next to the candidate with the (D) after his/her name without question? Was I misled to believe that Democrat had something to do with democracy?

BTW - I've been a registered Democrat since 1965 and have voted Democrat in almost every election since. (In 1968 I voted Peace and Freedom rather than for Humphrey). But, I have never thought that being a Democrat required me to forego being a democrat.

[Skinner]

71. I'm not asking you to forgo anything.

I'm just saying: If you want to participate on THIS message board, you can't have a sig line that attacks a Democrat.

[eleny]

64. A question

I'm glad about your sig line rule. But what about threads like this that are obviously trying to jab at one specific Dem candidate - Clark?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=824267

[Skinner]

72. I'm not going to disallow criticism of any candidate.

This rule is limited to the sig line, and that's the way I intend to keep it. We are in a primary, and we should allow discussions of all the candidates.

[eleny]

101. Thanks for the clarification!

[TopesJunkie]

66. Good policy!

I don't understand the negativity. It's bizarre.

[David__77]

73. I agree!

There's simply no need for this. It's tiring for people to get too ultra-"democratic," worrying about absolute "free expression." We're activists presumably trying to productively carry out informational exchange with an eye to aiding our concrete political work.

The only exception I can think of is for someone like Zell Miller, who has endorsed the candidacy of Bush. But it's not worth making a complicated policy. Let's just comply with a simply policy.

[sandnsea]

74. Is mine ok?

It expresses my total confusion with the direction of the party. If it needs to go, let me know please. Thanks.

[Skinner]

76. That's fine. (nt)

[felonious thunk]

75. repression!!!!

Um, Freedom of Speech! Um, Why's the man got to keep me down!?! What's next, man, no discussion of like, um, anything? We'll only be able to talk about bunnies, and like, um, pencils.

[Cleita]

78. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I hope you can come up with some rule about bashing seniors when the subjects of Medicare and Social Security, are brought up. I hesitate to participate on those threads, although I am pretty knowledgable about them, having to deal with the programs in my old age.

I get tired of being called a bitter old hag with her hand out looking for freebies, not always in those words, but meaning the same. It seems the same posters are always the ones who come in when these subjects are brought up. Some have been banned, but many have been here a long time. I don't know if they are Democrats or maybe just astroturf.

[Kanary]

95. being called names

You make a very good point, Cleita. I've been thinking a lot about censorship on the basis of running people off. There's a post today about Social Darwinism, and I see a lot of the name-calling and worse as much the same thing. I guess more and more if someone can outshout you and put you down until you can't take it anymore, then they win. I really never thought I'd see the world come to this, but that's pretty much what it is, and it's apparent from places like this that it's not going to get any better. So, I guess in our old age, we best stick "with our own".

There's no excuse whatsoever for anyone referring to you as an "old hag with her hand out", and I saw that used, also, and there's no excuse for it to be ALLOWED here. Again, you either swallow the abuse, or shut up, or just leave. Great commercial for the Democratic Party.

I don't know about you, but I know that more and more people my age are saying that they hope they die early, because they don't want to be put in a nursing home and depend on care by people who treat others this way. I have to sayy, I certainly agree with that.

For myself, I very much wwant to hear what you have to say, and your wisdom on the issues. But, I have a sad feeling that we'll more and more be missing the voices of reason and wisdom, and this place is abandoned to crass putdowns. Ah, but they object to "lectures".

Glad you spoke up. Needed to be said.

Kanary

[ulysses]

83. is mine ok?

I guess I'm really asking, by extension, if sigs critical of *factions* within the party are ok.

[Padraig18]

85. Kick

:dem:

[Julien Sorel]

86. A great rule, and overdue!

Well done.

[Wonk]

88. Now you're a comedian?

billybunter.net/deanmad.jpg

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=120&topic_id=7953

Thanks for the new rule, Skinner.

[Julien Sorel]

89. You are stealing my bandwidth, and my graphic.

I'm really getting tired of having to tell Deanites to stop that.

Please edit your post and remove the link to my webpage, and don't repeat this. Thanks in advance.

[Wonk]

90. That was your sigline last night. I'm not going to edit my post. nt

[Julien Sorel]

91. Suit yourself.

It's a violation of the rules here to steal bandwidth. It's a copyright violation to steal other peoples' work. It also leaves you open to things you'd probably rather not happen.

[Wonk]

92. Clearly you wanted to share it, otherwise you wouldn't have made it your

sigline in the first place. You could always change the file name, but then that'd break the link for all the other places that you've already posted it online, too. :nopity:

[Julien Sorel]

96. I've already changed the filename.

Perhaps you should look twice.

I drive my car around and everyone can see it, too. Maybe that's an invitation for people to hop in and take it for a spin. I've published articles in newspapers and magazines and journals. That must mean I want people to take them and display them all over -- quote from them without permission, cite them without reference, and so on. Of course, the publisher wouldn't allow it -- little thing called copywrite laws.

And while I'm at it, if you see that graphic posted anywhere else online, it wasn't done by me. Anyone who did so would be guilty of the same thing you are.


Another childish discussion with a Deanite. Who'da thunk it...

[Wonk]

97. Congrats. That's even more juvenile + offensive than the previous one. nt

[Julien Sorel]

98. Amazing,

how the only way to make your point with a certain group of people is to become juvenile and offensive.

My first post was polite and respectful, but you refused to do anything. Too late to cry about it now, son.

[Wonk]

99. You're cracking me up. Seriously. Look in a mirror. nt

[Moderator]

100. Both of you, cut it out.

Thanks.

DU Moderator

[tinanator]

110. thats "copyright"

just in case you want to appear smarter than someone who isnt.

[Julien Sorel]

124. That's 'isn't'

Just in case.

[_NorCal_D_]

117. You could always use this BillyBunter:

http://207.137.168.225/
:evilgrin:

[Renew Deal]

105. That has got be one of the funniest things I have ever seen.

It will end up on FR in a second. It is completly inappropriate, but hystericaly funny.

[Julien Sorel]

106. What's inappropriate about it?

You don't think the eye makeup clashes with the rouge, do you? I tried to get them to compliment each other, not clash, but I'm a novice at the makeup game. :shrug:

[Name removed]

108. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hep]

120. I thought it was funny

It makes you wonder why this freak is dressing up men with makeup. I mean, it's cool if that's his passion, you know, if he likes to dress in drag and try different looks on 2 dimensional subjects. I'm not judgmental. I'm just see a little projection and a little of Bunters true colors.

But great job, bb! You've been practicing! Maybe next time you go out you'll look like a $3 call girl instead of a $2 hooker.

[AWD]

119. Of COURSE it'll end up on FR

....it was CREATED for them, just like several other sig pictures created by the same person.

I mean, it's not a coincidence that this new rule was created the day after massive sig graphics were posted in the same person's posts over and over again, all attacking the same candidate.....like this one




NOTE - I do not endorse the above graphic. I post it to show the childish and immature behavior that has created the rule we are all discussing
NOTE - I DO endorse the below graphic. I post it to try and elect a candidate that will take this country back from the childish and immature people who currently run it.

[Forkboy]

118. Billy Billy Billy

You're sig pic was the one that pushed admin to the point where this rule was necessary.Playing all innocent when eveyone knows the situation just undermines your integrity even more.

[Hep]

121. What integrity

n/t

[AWD]

122. Amen to that.....

...and now he comes in here trying to act like he loves the rule, hoping to fool people into thinking that he's not the one responsible.

[Name removed]

126. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RetroLounge]

87. Thank you so so much Skinner!

It needed to be done.

It proves the point that a sig line says more about the person posting it than any thing else!

Thank again, for this, and all your hard work...

[rasputin1952]

93. You've just touched the surface...

of the problem; but it is a start!

Time and time again some individuals will sink to lower levels just to make what they think is a good point; problem is, the original point was less than ideal in the first place.

I have nothing personal against any of the candidates running for the Dem nomination. In fact, I find all of them have some exceptionally good points. To me, it makes little sense to spend vast amounts of time and energy attacking any of the candidates. Support your own with reason and discipline. At this point, there are few, if any, sitting on the fence anymore. Most of us have made up our minds; and will vote accordingly.

The issue we should all be taking to the streets, is the bringing down of the current regime. Discuss what must be discussed, but keep in mind, the enemy is the bush regime.

O8)

[Pastiche423]

102. I have a request

to those that have flashing sigs -

Please respect others that have problems w/flashing objects and remove them.

It also helps others read your posts if the screen is not flashing in their faces.

TIA!

[JustJoe]

104. If the critics of this new rule had seen the one last night

graphically likening Dean to Hitler, they
might change their minds. Creepy & self-
destructive. The strangest thing is how anybody
can imagine that such attacks on another candidate
will help their own candidate or do anything but
garner sympathy for the candidate so unfairly
attacked, whether Dean, Clark, or anybody else.

[sasquatch]

107. What about Lieberman and LaRouche

The FReepers have more Dem qualities than they do;)

[bearfartinthewoods]

111. kick

n/t

[xultar]

115. What about Zell Miller & Joe Lieberman? n/t

[Octafish]

123. OK. No More Mr & Ms Mean Guy in the siggy.

A kick above the belt up.

[Bucky]

125. Would even THIS sig be construed as "attacking a Democrat"?

What about a sig file that states:

"Fuck you, Woodrow Wilson."

[Logansquare]

127. Guess this needs a kickety-kick

.