Howard Dean's intellectual capital is coming up short (George Will)

[Dirty Hippie]

...

Howard Dean is no fool. He is, however, not much of a thinker. His talk flows as rapidly as a mountain brook, but is no deeper than one of those.

He is the candidate of America's professorate and others whose strongest passion is as much aesthetic as political - intellectual contempt for George W. Bush. But Dean's bantam-rooster pugnacity is
not unlike Bush's shoulders-squared jauntiness that critics consider an enraging swagger. Bush's imperturbable certitude infuriates Dean's supporters because they believe it arises not from reflection but from reflex. Actually, Dean really resembles his supporters' idea of Bush.

Appearing on "Hardball" with the human Gatling gun, Chris Matthews, Dean said that in terms of legal rights there is no practical difference between same-sex civil unions and marriages. Matthews: "So why are we quibbling over a name?" Dean: "Because marriage is very important to a lot of people who are pretty religious."

So, the argument about the public meaning of marriage is merely a semantic quibble important only to the "pretty religious"? Dean has said of his faith that "I don't think it informs my politics," and that he became a Congregationalist "because I had a big fight with a local Episcopal church about 25 years ago over a bike path." Fine. His faith, whatever it is, is his business and no disqualification for the presidency. But his qualifications supposedly include a searching intellect. Where is the evidence?

...

This from a Bush* supporter?
Let's get that adrenalin going this morning. Fire Away!


http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/democrat/news/opinion/7414963.htm

[Patriot_Spear]

1. Day 28 of the Dean Bashing Marathon...

Nothing new here.

Isn't it nice once again to be part of a party who is pissing off the republikkkans so badly?

[Le Taz Hot]

42. And using the right wing media

to do it. :eyes:

[JNelson6563]

2. haha as if anyone would go into depth

on such a personal matter.

The road to one's final decision about faith is rarely a simple, cut and dried business. I certainly wouldn't be able to sum mine up in a few short minutes.

Of course Wills is a whiner. Reminds me of Hatch.

Funny how the R's, the biggest winers on the planet, accuse the D's of being whiners. All projection all the time.

Julie

[Bombtrack]

4. whiner?

where in that text does he whine?

[JNelson6563]

24. <snarf> no surprise you don't see it

It bashes Dean and that's good enough for you.

Ever hear the man speak? No. He whines. Kinda like folks whose candidates don't stand a chance. ;-)

Julie

[virtualobserver]

39. George Will is self-righteousness personified

Gosh, remember when he briefed Reagan with the stolen Carter briefing papers with full knowledge that they were stolen.

His analysis of Dean is so meaningful to me. I always look to self-righteous hypocrites to show me the way.

[Patriot_Spear]

5. When republikkans run out of phooney 'issues'...

They immediately turn to character assassination- hence Will's article.

[RetroLounge]

60. and when Dean Bashers run out of ideas

they post right-wing articles...

Sad.

[Hep]

62. Sad?

Dude, it isn't sad. It's hilarious!

The best part is, none of the bashers have enough integrity to feel like assholes about it.

[Bombtrack]

3. Will is a conservative before he is a partisan

it's important not to throw in journalists like Will and Novak and Tucker Carlson, who are free-thinkers, with the fox/talk radio pantheon.

I also think Pat Buchannon deserves more respect than the latter group, even if he is more of a pundit than a journalist

[Patriot_Spear]

6. You owe me dry-cleaning money...

I couldn't help but spew a little coffee over your comment that Will and Novak aren't partisan... for that you get the whopper of the week award, my friend.

[REP]

12. I Splorted Too

George "Baseball is a metaphor for me being a crashing ass" Will and Novak are about the most biased partisans who are still given any credence.

[roughsatori]

19. I laughed tea onto my keyboard

The idea the on DU someone could in anyway claim that Will and Novak are not right-wing partisians and apologists.

That defense of those dishonest hacks lends weight to my claim that DU is moving to the Right.

[Bombtrack]

23. I didn't F'ing say they weren't partisan

I drew a distinction between them and other RWers, who deserve less respect and no attention from anyone looking for insight.

I guess to you people there is no such thing as an intellectual who isn't liberal

[Patriot_Spear]

28. Well, no I guess there isn't.

I must agree with you- there are no conservatives who I would consider an 'intellectual'.

[REP]

35. "You People"?

Which little category are you trying to cram 'us people' into?

George Will is not an intellectual. His ideology may or may not have anything to do with him being a crank who thinks he's an intellectual. He's a pseudointellectual at best and a trite little hack at worst.

[Justice]

7. Will Is a Partisan Shrew

The only compassion is has is for baseball and federal funding for down's syndrome - and the latter is only because he has a son with down's syndrome.


Edited to Add: To suggest that Dean is not a deep thinker is particularly insulting given Dean's obvious intellect as evidenced by among other things a medical school degree. Not unlike saying Cleland is unpatriotic when he lost three limbs in battle.

[GreenArrow]

64. one can be intelligent yet not be a deep thinker

I totally agree with you that George Will is a partisan shrew (and that's being kind) but I agree with his assessment on this. Dean is very clever, very glib, quick witted, and obviously an intelligent person, but he doesn't strike me as a deep thinker in any way, shape, or form. I don't see a great deal of intellectual depth to him.

[Dogmudgeon]

15. Will and Novak, free-thinkers?

I agree with your argument, but not about George Will and Bob Novak. Each of them have had their noses firmly planted in some GOP butt or another many times. Bob Novak was the GOPerative who did Team Bush's dirty work in "outing" Valerie Plame.

With Tucker Carlson, I can see your point. Even more so for "Peejay" Buchanan. But George and Bob have cultivated their reputation, rather than earned it.

--bkl

[Bombtrack]

20. he didn't do there dirty work,

it's a myth that they were looking for someone and he's the one that agreed. He was researching an article and got the info out of them

and it's completlely putting words in my mouth that I said they weren't partisan. They put there principals before party.

And almost all the time, that party happens to be republican.

But unlike Fox and Clear channel, there minds aren't wholly owned subsidieries of the RNC.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bombtrack]

27. I'm aware of that myth which is why I commented on it

it was reported but it was later corrected

Why don't you get your F'ing facts straight

[Patriot_Spear]

33. Myth? Novak clammed up like a Reagan aide at a Iran-Contra trial...

Novak was the tool of Rove and Libby- he damaged our national security and is a goddam traitor in my view.

This line of BS you're putting out just don't float in the bowl, sonny.

[depakid]

16. A journalist?

methinks you've been blinded by too much Deansmack... Will's as much of a journalist as Limbaugh is a sportscaster.

[Prodemsouth]

37. Will is more independent than most conservatives I would not put him

with Novak and Tuker Carlson. He really liked Jack Kemp but said he blew it just after his debate with Gore in the 96 election. He was on a post debate show on ABC. He really went after Bush (Sr) in 92, highly critical of him on This Week just before the 92 election. He knew the GOP would lose in 92 and 96 and said do before the election- no evidence that he is as partisan as the Dean supporters are claiming. I would consider what Will has to say, and take note, but I would not let it be a determining factor.

[trumad]

38. Here's a Howler link to help Bombtrack with George Will!

Look Bomb... I love my canidate as much as the next guy but to lower yourself like you did on this thread by propping Novack, Will, Carlson and Buchannon, just for the sake of dissing Dean, well...that's taking it a bit to far.... BTW: Do a search on your other "free thinkers" at the Daily Howler...Ya might learn somthin!

http://www.google.com/custom?q=george+will&sa=Google+Search&cof=AH%3Acenter%3BAWFID%3Ac32a032061318778%3B&domains=dailyhowler.com&sitesearch=dailyhowler.com

[Jerseycoa]

8. Intellectuals' Choice?

Interesting. Is this true? Just curious.

I agree with this, though:

"Dean's bantam-rooster pugnacity is not unlike Bush's shoulders-squared jauntiness that critics consider an enraging swagger. Bush's imperturbable certitude infuriates Dean's supporters because they believe it arises not from reflection but from reflex. Actually, Dean really resembles his supporters' idea of Bush."

[Dirty Hippie]

17. Dean definitely seems to be cultivating

a "Regular Joe" image but I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing. A lot of people vote based on impression and personality. Dems will have a tough time winning if our candidate comes across as a stodgy intellectual.

[Jerseycoa]

26. Regular Joe Image

I don't see it as a bad thing, either. I was wondering about the "intellectuals' choice" charge (if we can call it a charge) is true or not?

Anyway, here's another one: What the Right is thinking about today.

"Dean is the candidate of the most-articulate faction in the party — the upper middle-class, bourgeois-bohemian (bobo) crowd."

The National Review

[Kremer]

9. Like George Will has any "intellectual capital."

Fuck him!! He's an idiot! Take that damn bow tie and shove it down your throat. "He's not much of a thinker." Is he fucking for real? Dean says 2 words and you can tell he is not only a thinker but unlike the asswipe at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave., HE HAS A BRAIN! George Will is a smug piece of shit. He thinks he knows everything about baseball too. Oh yes, Mr. Will the all-knowing, almighty, has completely examined the mind of Howard Dean. Whatever!

[Myra]

10. That's a very good sign!

The more the wing-nuts beat up on him the more I trust him.

[REP]

18. True - "Nobody Shoots at You on the Way Down"

I find it amusing that anyone takes Will seriously, but even so, it is a good sign that more and more shots are being taken - even though they fall short of the mark.

[roughsatori]

11. Will is a jealous faux intellectual and has been

Here is the phrase that betrays him: "He {Dean) is the candidate of America's professorate..."

Will is one of the worst writers in the country who has some fame. I have many times thought that if I taught a class on essay writing (I've taught Poetry) I would hand out copies of Will's articles to illustrate what NOT to do. His jargon, obfuscation, code words, lack of logic, setting up straw men, etc,

I have read and heard that Mr Will is considered quite the has been, light-weight by the neo-con wonder boys (some of whom are quite intelligent and conniving). He is also said to be furious that O'Really and Hannratty are TV stars while Will is fading.

Notice I did not even touch upon this man's odious politics. They speak for themselves. :puke:

btw: You achieved your stated goal. I just got up and am drinking tea--yours is the first article on DU that I read and I am now an "Angry Liberal Bush hater." :)

I do however support Kucinich as the candidate who most closely reflects my own beliefs.

[depakid]

13. Coming from phony like George Will, that's farcical

I've often wondered whether Will realizes how little respect he has among honest to goodness intellectuals on College campus' these days? Sorry George, everyone's on to your act- you're a stale caricature of the 80's and 90's, and seeing you grasp for straws and cast petty aspersions like this is just pathetic.

If you were anyone else I might be embarrassed for you.

[The Backlash Cometh]

14. If George Will wants to make an issue about low intellectual capital

why isn't he writing articles about George Bush?

Taking pot shots at the Democratic candidates on this issue when you have a no brainer in the Oval office is a mistake for conservatives.

[roughsatori]

21. Thanks for summing the real issue up--you are absolutely correct NT

[Patriot_Spear]

40. Why is the obvious zingers always fly by me?

Great point- thanks for throwing it out there.

[The Backlash Cometh]

48. I'm dangerous when I lean back in my armchair.

It's like pulling back the trigger of a gun.

;-)

[tlb]

22. As I expected, much George Will bashing, Little analysis of his point.

Is he right, is he wrong ?

Either way it appears most are unwilling or unable to defend Dean's " intellectual capital " from him. I do recall however The New Republic's F grade for Dean's intellectual honesty.

When all you see is bashing of the messenger, I tend to have a sneaking suspicion it's because he has hit a nerve.

[Dirty Hippie]

30. At the Florida Dem convention

Dean's speech included more facts to support his views than any of the other candidate speeches (although to be fair I did miss some of Clark's speech). Could be he has better staff but I think he would appear fairly intellectual in a head-to-head debate with Bush*.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

31. Without Getting Into This Internecine Dog Fight

wasn't George Will the columnist that started the "Poppy Bush is a wimp" meme....

[depakid]

32. What's to analyze?

The entire (poorly written) piece consists of mockery, insults and thinly veiled attempts to make himself look literate. The few insincere rhetorical questions he poses don't even follow from valid logic.

The only nerve he hits is that he takes up space in the newspaper and has a spot on TV that might otherwise go to someone who actually has something worthwhile to say.

[roughsatori]

34. an "F" on "intellectual honesty? The NR endorsed invading Iraq

I find it difficult to take how they would score anyone's "intellectual honesty" seriously. I guess they think it was intellectual honest for Liberals to endorse an illegal war that has killed many innocent civilians and American soldiers.

That said, I support Kucinich and find it a disgrace that anyone who claims to be Progressive would defend that article. Note: That is not to say that one could not make that point regarding Dean in a cogent fair manner. I will leave it to Dean's supporters to argue his merits.

[Hep]

57. That or

Will just has no credibility with intelligent, well meaning liberals.

[w4rma]

29. Professors are short on intellectual capital?

"{Dean} is the candidate of America's professorate …"

Also, Will's fellow Repuke, Sullivan, disagrees with his analysis of Dean's support of his state's civil unions:

The GOP Divide On Gay Marriage -- Andrew Sullivan
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A40183-2003Dec5.html
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=24606

[Prodemsouth]

43. Oh so now we are going after Will, using Andrew Sullivan. There

would not be any personal issues on this one for Andy, now, would there?

[w4rma]

53. Yup. But, more importantly it does look like a GOP divide. (n/t)

[Iverson]

36. This prof. says Will is a nincompoop.

George Will has a history of hostility toward elements of higher education that dare to employ that "searching intellect." Please refer back to the ridiculous nationwide flap over the proposed (not adopted, just proposed) "writing and difference" curriculum in UT-Austin's English dept. back in the '90s.

Also, Dean is not the candidate of the professoriate. There is no consensus. Will is simply wrong.

Will is a wannabe intellectual who can only maintain the facade through propping up from his monied allies.

[Hep]

41. Suddenly we care what George Will thinks?

n/t

[virtualobserver]

45. if it's anti-dean, then it must be seen n/t

[Hep]

50. LOL

I love it. Dean's in their heads.

[virtualobserver]

54. but It does make you stop and think...Do I really want .........

to vote for a Democrat that Republican spinmeister George Will does not approve of?

[Hep]

56. Usually, I just listen to the RNC

but they've been confusing me lately.

[Patriot_Spear]

46. I agree, but Will's a weathervane for the repukes- they're afraid of Dean.

Clearly if the 'Mighty Wurlitzur' is gearing up against Dean, he's someone they fear.

Circumstantial evidence that Dean's efforts are paying off.

[Hep]

51. Frankly,

I don't care if republicans are scared or licking their chops. I support my guy and seldom look up!

[Patriot_Spear]

52. Yep, couldn't agree more. n/t

[Gman]

44. Dean pales in comparison to Clark

when it comes to intelligence. There is no comparison at all here.

This was another major reason I decided to support Clark. Dean is a lightweight.

[Patriot_Spear]

47. With comments like that, who needs George Will?

Sad.

[trumad]

55. LOL

Then Clark pales in comparison to Dean when it comes to politics... Since Clark has never been a politician then I guess that means Clark is a light weight politician... I'm a Clark guy but your statement's pretty ignorant... Deans a God Damn Doctor for Christ sakes!

[papau]

59. Good Point - either would be great - and Dean seems better at hot buttons

Gore tried well thought out positions and the media lied by saying he was a liar and then mis-represented what he said and chose to not understand his positions (I love the "lockbox" put downs they had at the ready when he tried to explain the value of not using the payroll surplus to give tax cuts to the rich).

I think a great mind may not get pass the media bias.

[Hep]

58. You share classes with him?

Maybe got a gander at his transcript? His SAT scores? What's YOUR IQ? Maybe I shouldn't even be paying attention to you.

[RetroLounge]

63. "Dean pales in comparison when it comes to intelligence"

and you posted so many interesting facts to back this up.

Thanks for the links. Especially the one with all the charts and graphs.

Dean's ACT and SAT and Medical School scores that you so graciously posted also back up your assertion.

and the comparative analysis of Clark vs. Dean is a marathon game of trivial pursuit definitely proves your point.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[Algorem]

49. "Bush is not!Dean is!Bush is not!Dean is!Nyeah-nyeah!"Whose stolen

notes did he use to write this fairy dust?Pompous sillywigged driveltypist.

[Forkboy]

61. That's a compliment coming from Georgie