Gore Opened the Pandora's Box that We Don't Need

[Starpass]

Months ago Al said that he would be endorsing someone in December. I was a Kerry supporter at the time (Clark was not on the scene). I thought 100% that that endorsement would be for Kerry (won't go into the reasoning but it was sound for the time). One would think that I would have initially been thrilled. I wasn't and said so on this DU. I thought it stupid, insane and the kind of stuff that Dems keep doing and blowing their dumb foot off!!! I said then that our "big guns" need to shut the hell up and only come out after we know (and that could be prior to the convention) who our nominee is. Then they need to come out as one unified force for "our candidate". To do so before and get into the 'endorsing game' diminishes us. I don't know if you realize what really now has happened with today's Gore endorsement.

Two things. First, the majority of "primary" Democrats do not support Dean. They are divided over a field of the other eight. These are the people (and I know this from my 58 years) who are the fighting soul of the party. These are the people who work for candidates, raise money and fight. Thus, for that majority, today ripped their guts out - and unnecessarily did so. How many of these people who always support their candidate but come together and work their asses off for the nominee, just threw down their battle axes and said "screw it..I'm sick of fighting for morons who shoot their foot off"?? But the second point is much more damaging.'

Point blank. We have a shit pot of Dems in the House and a certain percentage in the Senate who are up for re-election in '04....and a shit pot of them voted FOR the war. They were already concerned about "draging around Howard". In a word, you can't defend yourself to your electorate and have your presidential candidate label those who voted for the war as some sort of human garbage who should be disposed of. But now they have Mr. 2000 tell the world that they are wrong, wrong, wrong. And you don't think that their opponents won't shove this down their throats and suffocate them??? You have just seen the gutting of the US Congress of most of the Dems in 2004!! Makes you all warm and fuzzy, doesn't it?? That's the reality. We can't have it both ways, you know. Gore just did in a good share of our congressional delegation. That also translates into the "machine" they have in their states which means doing in our hopes for a Dem president. For Christ's sake they didn't get into Congress on their good looks. Gore just destroyed it all. And here is the big kicker.............even though I wasn't a Dean supporter, I was beginning to see things in Dean that I liked and wanted to encourage (saved for some other post). And, goddamn it, Gore just crapped it away. I still want to discuss those things that excite me about Dean and still do.........but this just turned off a bunch of the Dems we need. We have to stop this---Gore cannot be this politically ignorant. How could he do this. There is stuff about Dean that is coming through--that's why he leads. It's good. It has traction. As a Clark supporter I had no problem fighting for Dean (and will eventually tell you what turns me on to Dean)...and just as I was about to post it, this hit. And I could see over half of the primary voters (our fighters) giving up. Gore's endorsemenht of Dean needed to come "after" the die was cast and I'm about 90% sure that it will be cast in Dean's favor. Why can we not ever get the timing right!!!!

[trumad]

1. Shouldn't you have combined this thread

with your earlier thread attacking Gore?

[Name removed]

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[trumad]

13. Here's your first attack on Gore

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=856825

It got locked because it was a typical attack thread against a Democrat... and here ya go again!

[Starpass]

17. Like I said, Trumad--Dean could have expected more

I did and Dean isn't even my candidate. That was pathetically weak for the the long awaited pronunciation of our former candidate. Did he even think about what he might say once he was on national TV?? Even Arnold made more points in less time. If Dean becomes our candidate, fine. If Gore wants to support him, fine. But 1) do it after not before because it weakens it all 2) at least rehearse the fucking speech beforehand. He's lucky he even convinced the Dean supporters!!!!!!!!!! Either contribute Al or don't screw things up.

[fishnfla]

14. I'm one, here,here

I think Gore made a big mistake that will hurt us all.
I'm also sick and tired of the arrogant antagonism of Dean supporters

Give'em hell, Starpass.

[unfrigginreal]

16. Another Deanie here

Please stay with Clark, you wouldn't like Dean.

[Name removed]

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[impeach the gop]

2. Shit, ANYONE but SMIRK

n/t

[bearfartinthewoods]

3. may i say ....

DITTO!!!!!!!!

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. I beg to disagree.

Dean has the best organized campaign and... this is Gore's break
with the DLC. At least this is how I read it. He suported, or endorsed the candidate Gore believes has the best chance right how.
You and I may choose to agree or disagree with Al. It is his choice. We both have as much right to his opinion as you or I.

This will only become a Pandora's box if you allow the GOP make it So. My question is, will you play into Rove's game?

[Name removed]

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[Junkdrawer]

11. Ya know, I was thinking the same thing....

Ultra-pragmatic political advice from....

[Starpass]

10. nad--this isn't Rove's game - it's ours

I said in my post that the majority of primary Dems don't support Dean but spread over the other candidates. They aren't just going to smile and pat Gore on the ass. This sucks for them. And it's the stuff that makes people throw in the towel. These are people who would have supported their candidate to the end and if the candidate didn't make it, supported the one who did. This they didn't need because it is POLITICALLY STUPID....and that it what is distressing so many Dems to begin with. In so many ways, this distracted from Dean and made Rove come in his pants. Gore needed to shut his mouth for a few months when Dean (in all probablity) will be our nominee. Let the faithful come here naturally....don't cut them off before. Damn it.

[Military Brat]

5. The political wheels have been turning in Dean's favor

This was no revelation to Washington insiders. I am personally not interested in Rove's whisper campaign that "Dean can't win," which seems to have seeped into the very consciousness of many Dems and made them afraid of his ultimate nomination, which grows more and more likely.

We shouldn't be upset about Gore's decision and how he chose to express it. Politics involves a lot more than what we see on the surface. Now we know where Gore stands. That question can be laid to rest. There are other powerful groups or individuals that will publicly announce support for other candidates, and maybe some surprising ones at that.

Such a fury over this endorsement and its timing.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

8. Since the publication of "Earth in the Balance"

it's been all downhill for Al Gore as far as I'm concerned. That's the last thing he did that I found impressive or inspiring. Seems like once he became Veep he forgot all about how "We must make the rescue of the environment the central organizing principle for civilization." I don't remember him mentioning the environment in his 2000 campaign either.

[Jacobin]

9. Oh, great. According to your reasoning we have to fill the WH and

congress with PNACing warmongers so they won't embarrass each other.

What a load of stinking hooey.

[Starpass]

12. Jacobin--consider the electorate and the ads

They will shove this down the throat of every Congressman/woman who voted FOR the war. You can't have it both ways. Either we are the party who "hates da' war and loves anti-war sentiment" or we think "war is a-0kay". They were going to have a bit of a problem with an anti-war presidential candidate; but now they have their former candidate say that 'anti-war' people are 'wrong people'. So, genius, you tell me how we are going to handle that slight discrepancy-------and don't think Rove ain't gonna' make you eat it for breakfast. We just made a dumb political move..admit it.

[Jacobin]

22. so its either one way or the other way, and there is no other answer

but your answer? Who's the genius?

I don't know about your congresscritter races, but the ones I watch get elected in my state don't have much at all to do with international policy, war, etc.

They have to do with issues which are more local (pork), or taking care of SS or medicare, etc etc etc.

So your concept that we have to have a warmonger in the WH because if someone who didn't support the invasion is in the WH, all the warmonger dem congresscritters will get booted is silly. Wouldn't that mean, then, that the repuke congresscritters who didn't support the invasion would also be booted?

See? Makes no sense.

Think of a more direct way to diss Dean and support your candidate. Its beneath you to engage in this sort of twisted reasoning.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

15. "..and a shit pot of them voted FOR the war."

An apt choice of words.

"In a word, you can't defend yourself to your electorate and have your presidential candidate label those who voted for the war as some sort of human garbage who should be disposed of. But now they have Mr. 2000 tell the world that they are wrong, wrong, wrong. And you don't think that their opponents won't shove this down their throats and suffocate them???"

Perhaps you should take it up with them. Like, WHY did they vote for BushCorps war if they were allegedly Democrats?

I, for one, will be glad to see them go. Perhaps, then we can get some liberals to replace them. One of my senators, Maria Cantwell, sold her soul and voted for the war. I had supported her election and planned to so again. I'm hoping an anti-war Democrat will run against her when she's up for reelection. If not, it's Green for me.

To hell with the pantywaist faux Democrats who voted for Bush.

[Starpass]

18. bandara--the country needs you

Yep, let's get all them fucking Dems out of Congress and turn it over to the repukes. Pssst.....invest in body bags, honey and hope you ain't of age to serve. This is what I fear. A bunch of assholes who want to make a statment---been there, done that. It resonates WITH NO ONE YOU FOOLS. It doesn't last long enough to type it. We either get rid of Bush and the repukes; or babycakes, you will live for the remainder of your life under them. Get the picture.....I didn't think so.

[formactv]

19. Just a bunch of guys

who want to keep their jobs. The driving force behind their support is the belief that failure to support a war is political suicide. A bunch of gutless wonders. To not see the folly of this Iraq invasion is unforgiveable. It was a stampede, by a cowboy with his six gun. Whoopy ti-yi-yo.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

26. You've already invested in the body bags.

"We either get rid of Bush and the repukes; or babycakes, you will live for the remainder of your life under them. Get the picture.....I didn't think so."

Why not get rid of the Bush collaborators also? You seem perfectly ready to buy into his policies.

"Pssst.....invest in body bags, honey and hope you ain't of age to serve."

Not any more. USMC 1961-65 You? Your candidates seem to have already made their investment in bodybags.

[Scott Lee]

27. Your insults fail to persuade - or haven't you noticed?

Yeah, I can see you're pissed off, but you're pissed at the wrong people. Maybe you should trot your righteous ire over to the Rose Garden Quisling's homes and take it up with them. Or the Democrats who caved on the Patriot Act. Or the Democrats like Zell who love more than anything to vote with Republicans.

You arrogantly assume that the country won't want anyone but the current crop of yes-men Dems in congress. That is not only outrageously underestimating Democratic spirit and intelligence, it is completely wrong. Starpass let me give you a bit of advice. Embrace and assist the massive change that's coming, or you'll be left with nothing but your bitter tears and the proverbial whirlwind.

[cmd]

20. Dean has a fantastic campaign going

That is just what it is - a campaign. Because he has a campaign does not mean that he is going to be elected. I love all the things Howard Dean has to say. I love Kucinich's message even more. However, sad to say, I'm in the minority in this country. I don't even live in the South where you might say I'd be in the VAST minority. My will will not be done.

I could give up right now, but I see a way in which we can beat the Bush* machine. We have to nominate someone who appeals to the majority. I thought Kerry would be the one. Unfortunately, he does not have Dean's campaign machine. That leaves me with the one candidate who offers a platform that the majority of Americans would vote for.....Wes Clark.

I've been around long enough to know that because someone has served in the armed forces he/she is not a bad person. I've been around long enough to recognize sheer genius in action. Clark can ignite a following. He offers a vision of hope for our country. Ike warned up against the military establishment. Clark understands what Ike was saying. He has stood up to the Pentagon. He is not afraid to run with a position he believes in.

Gore may have opened the box, but that doesn't mean we all have to climb in. I will continue my support for Clark because I believe in him. If Dean received the nomination, I will whole heartedly give him my support. Perhaps a fantastic campaign will be enough. Meanwhile, keep all options for winning open.

Been there, done it. cmd

[TopesJunkie]

21. Whatever --

I'm sorry, but I don't think there is a better response than that.

;)

[Name removed]

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[Padraig18]

24. Horse feathers!

Don't be ridiculous! Al Gore is entitled to endorse anyone he wants to endorse whenever he wants to do so. YOU seem to be the one with the problem---not Al Gore. :shrug:

[Unforgiven]

28. Good God!

I'll give the argument about the early endorsement. The rest you can throw where it belongs.............in the trash. If for any reason people are going to be turned off by what happened and will 'just give up and quit" well fine, just tell them yea, you're right I want 4 more years of Fascism! So just stay home and s.t.f.u!