Who has more influence with African Americans? Gore or Clinton

[TrueAmerican]

Will Bill Clinton throw his support behind Clark now or will he sit on the sidelines?

I am not black, so I only know what the media tells me.

IMO, Gore support from African Americans come mostly from Clinton's coattails. And if Gore would of used Clinton more during the campaign, he might of won even more easily over Bush.

Not trying to slam anyone here. I apologize if it looks like I am. Is this a legimate discussion?

[Jerseycoa]

1. If this were a poll

I would vote Clinton.

[wndycty]

2. We have our own influence. . .

. . .and we can make up our own minds. We love Clinton, we love Gore, but we love because there is something about them to love, not because someone told us to. Thank You.

[TrueAmerican]

3. Sorry, if I offended you

I did not mean too. Maybe I have listen to Rush to much?

But out of the two, who do you favor if you had to choose?

[Cheswick2.0]

6. stop listening to Rush

He is an oxymoron. Given his drug use nothing he has said in the last 7 or 8 years can be taken as valid. Besides, he causes brain drain. Soon you will be saying stupid shit like "ditto" and "if you take away the AA vote Bush wins in a landslide".

[agitpropagent9]

11. bloc-heads

the sooner democrats stop seeing the "black vote" as a faceless bloc they simply need to "shore up" and start addressing the concerns of individual black voters, the better.

it's insulting and cynical to think that a core collection of social policies and a white figurehead can ensure that blacks vote D.

they're vital members of the party and not uniformly-thinking robots who can be pandered to as a race, rather than individuals.

[newyawker99]

20. Hi agitpropagent9!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Cheswick2.0]

4. gore lost swing voters because of Clinton

many people in my area voted for bush because Gore was Clintons VP and they wanted done with the whole Clinton administration. It wasn't fair but it happened. The idea that Gore had an easy race and blew it is nonsense. Did you know that Gore got more votes than Clinton did in many of the states Gore lost and Clinton won? Think about that.

It doesn't matter which has more support amoung AA. Why would we want to perpetuate that pissing match? Neither one is running for President and each one has given their time attention and loyalty to their party. Each is doing what they think best now. Must we set them up in some kind of contest?

[bryant69]

7. It's called the Horse Race

And it is a lot more fun and telegenic than actually thinking about the issues. Unforunately.

Clinton Vs. Gore is a good copy, even if at the end of the day, as you say, they are both loyal democrats who are trying to do right by the party.

Bryant
Check it out--> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[SquireJons]

13. BULL-$%!t

Maybe that was your opinion, but political scientists are pretty united in their condemnation of Gore's campaign. Especially when he refused to embrace the very popular and successful administration he served in. If he had allowed Clinton to campaign for him, he'd be president right now, and most of our troubles would never have occurred. Have you forgotten Clinton’s approval ratings? Almost no one except die-hard social conservatives cared one little flip about Monica or Clinton’s indiscretions. But Gore... what a fool.:mad:

As for your apples and oranges comparison of votes... you seem to have forgotten that there were three candidates in 92 and 96, and Clinton had to fight much more formidable opponents - an incumbent president, a strong, nationally known senate Majority Leader and a popularist Billionaire who did far better than Nader. Get a grip!

[Samantha]

22. Gore ran an excellent campaign

I followed that election for about two to three hours each day for two years. At the beginning of his campaign, all of the so-called political experts said it would be an uphill climb for Gore due to Clinton's impeachment. He was polling 20 percent behind Bush* from the very beginning.

The really odd thing about this is that in 1992 when Clinton asked Gore to join the ticket, Gore did not want to because he thought Clinton had a sleazy reputation that might possibly taint his (Gore's) future political ambitions. Turns out Gore was right about that. After deciding to sit that race out following his son's accident, Gore did an about-face when Clinton offered him the equivalent of a co-presidency. Read David Mariness on the subject. He's one of the best biographers in the United States, and his work is unquestionned. Due to the fact Clinton offered Gore complete control over approximately eight spheres of influence, in areas in which Gore was very interested, Gore accepted the offer, put aside his personal misgivings about Clinton's personal reputation, and ran.

Many people in the party said the order of the ticket should have been reversed, and that it was Gore's presence on the ticket which helped Clinton win victory. I totally agree with that. Gore is a very solid, steady person and he lent a lot of stability to the Clinton ticket.

Over a period of time when Gore was running during the 2000 election, he had private pollsters who told him in what areas Clinton's campaigning would hurt Gore's chances. Gore is the type of person who leaves nothing to chance. Those areas were areas strategically important to Gore's Electoral College calculatons, areas which might turn away from a Gore presidency due simply to Clinton's immorality. One of these was the State of Pennsylvania. Clinton did campaign for Gore is areas where his (Clinton's) womanizing and impeachment were non-factors. Get your facts straight.

Gore overcame the Bush* 20 point lead through a series of very smart maneuvers. Karl Rove, often mentioned as very politically astute in this area, paid one million dollars for a study on how Gore won the popular vote in the 2000 election. I always am reminded of this when I read or hear people say Gore ran a terrible election. This always comes from the Clinton element of the party who resented Clinton's not being used more. However, as I said before, Gore left nothing to chance and went with his professional pollsters advice. And he was right to do so.

During the impeachment process, many people in Washington said Gore was actually running the government because Clinton was too depressed to do so. I can never get over the Gore-bashing I see on this thread but it invaribly comes from people who have simply listened to those loyal to the Clintons or the propaganda spewed by the Republicans trying to justify their assertion that Gore lost the election, which of course, he did not.

[SquireJons]

5. I'm not black, but...

People are people. Gore's never done anything for blacks, and Clinton was a very successful president, while Gore looked completely impotent in 2000. Who would you choose to influence you in that situation? Now if you asked about Al Sharpton, you'd have a better question.

I'm not sure Gore's endorsement helps Dean outside of the Democratic primaries, in fact I think it probably hurt him. An activist Gore scares the hell out of me. I thought he came to his senses when he decided not to run.

[Cheswick2.0]

9. Yeah, so impotent that he got more votes than clinton did in either

election. Sorry you are buying the Rove media spin but your feelings don't fit the facts.

[SquireJons]

15. wake up!!!

Gore lost a fight no one else could have, except maybe Dukakas. Gore got more votes because it was essentially a two man race – no make that a one man / one monkey race in 2000. And the monkey won. Have you forgotten that Perot got 19% of the popular vote in 92? Or maybe that doesn't matter to you.

I'm not saying that Clinton would have won without Perot pulling away to loony vote from Bush 41 and Dole, but Gore would have gotten his ass whipped by either. The only - and I mean ONLY reason Gore came close was because of Clinton.

Prove me wrong! GD idiots make me mad. Clinton is the only successful Democratic President we've had in my 42 year life time and his own party wants to flush him down the toilet. This may not be the government we want, but it's the one we deserve. I'm going to Canada!

[Q]

19. Please stop calling DUers 'idiots'.

- And the 'monkey' didn't 'win'. Your diatribe completely disregards the election fraud of 2000. It won't help your case to pretend that Bushie Republicans didn't steal/hide/throw away thousands of mostly Black/Democratic votes.

- Golly...how were they able to do this?

Jeb 'the crow' Bush

Harris

GOP-controlled Florida legislature

Supreme Court

- Save your rants for the real criminals and 'losers'.

[SquireJons]

21. You miss my point

I don't mean to call DU'ers idiots. But I'm a bigtime Clinton fan, and will defend him to the death. It really angers me when folks here repeat the RNC’s BS. THAT's idiotic behavior. Why not talk about Carter's 'Failed Presidency' while you're at it?

Of course blacks voted for Gore. They're not stupid enough to vote for Bush. But the argument about the number of votes for Gore vs Clinton is way off base. And as for Gore winning the popular vote... well that's part of Gores problem. Let's say you were engaged to marry the girl you love, and at the church her ex-boyfriend shows up and demands she marry him instead. If you hang your head and mumble 'ok, you win' do you think anyone is going to respect you or feel sorry for you? Gore should have won by at least 4%, but he didn't. Not because Bush was good, but because Gore ran a terrible campaign, because he's a terrible campaigner. He didn’t even carry Tennessee. He has a good heart and a good mind, but he's a lousy politician. If he had allowed Clinton to campaign for him, he’d be president. Period. He tacitly sided with Ken Starr, and for that I will never forgive him. It was just the 'Washington Wives' gone crazy. I can just hear the bedtime conversations now... 'You're right, Tipper, Bill is a very bad man...'

[SquireJons]

16. Than again...

You don't sound very much like a Democrat anyways...

[radwriter0555]

8. Why does it matter what color voters are?

That's silly.

[THUNDER HANDS]

10. Gore got more black and latino votes than Clinton ever did

that that for what you will.

[tsipple]

14. Very True

African-Americans delivered for Gore in 2000.

[SquireJons]

17. Sorta True

They delivered for the Democratic Party, and I think that had more to do with 8 good years of governance than Gores appeal to blacks. We have to get away from the idea that blacks only vote for someone who will give them something. Don't you think they want the country to be well run also?

[theboss]

12. Sharpton!

As I mentioned yesterday, if I am Kerry, Edwards, or Clark, I am calling Sharpton every hour and offering him everything short of Secretary of State to drop out of the race and endorse me.

Of course, I would be doing it through back-channels to keep my distance from him.

Just win, baby!!

[SquireJons]

18. Good point

Sharpton staying in the primary race, while not being too radical (much to my amazement) is a very good thing for the Democrats nationally. Hopefully, he will keep his rhetoric in line and campaign for whoever wins the nomination. That, more than anything, might bring a lot of extra democratic voters to the polls next November. Fortunately for us, the RNC still thinks blacks can't read, so they are counting on modern day poll tax tacktics. Wanna bet that backfires?

[Myra]

23. I've done a lot of voter registration is South Seattle, Skyway

Because there are a lot of African Americans there and we know that it's a tried and true GOP strategy to prevent them from voting since they generally vote Dem. I frequently had people say things to me like "I want President Clinton back," "I miss President Clinton."

I never once heard an African American I was registering mention Gore.

And the fact is, as much as I respect Prez Gore, and as much as I appreciate his struggle to get the Fla votes counted, he didn't acknowledge that African Americans voters were targeted by the Pugs,
disenfranchised, and had their civil rights violated. The NAACP sued Fla as a result. As far as I know Gore, in spite of being increasingly outspoken the past few months, has never addressed this issue, which he of all people should be acutely aware of.
So why would African Americans feel loyalty to him?

Whereas Clinton is affectionately/jokingly referred to as "The first black president."

[in_cog_ni_to]

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