Exactly how is the Democratic party split?

[rucky]

Clinton/Gore? DLC/DNC? Progressives/Centrists? Deaniacs/ABD-ers? Populists/Insiders?

None of these seem to really pin it down.

Clinton & Gore are both DLC & they have a history together. So if there was a falling out, what brought it on? Any facts to back this up, or is it rumor & speculation?

I know the DLC attacks progressives, but they don't really rail on the Party... do they? But if the split is between the centrists & progressives, why all this Dean/Gore bashing? Where do they stand in the spectrum? Dean is a self-proclaimed centrist attacked by the DLC. Gore is just as hard to pigeonhole - often attacked from the left end of the spectrum, but presumably attacked from both sides - just like Dean. Do they even fall on one side or another?

Okay, so if it's populists vs. insiders (i'm sure there's a better way to describe it). Well, what exactly qualifies Gore as an outsider? Or Clark as an insider, for that matter?

What is it then? What's the heart of this split? If you fall into one of these feuding camps, please try to step out of it for a moment and take an objective look. The opinions just aren't adding up - i don't know where people are coming from.

[mrgorth]

1. DLC (centrists)

vs. Liberal base

[rucky]

8. But Dean is a centrist

I'm thinking, tho, that it's a false dichotomy to say the party is split in two. More fractured than anything.

It's the DLC establishment vs. everybody else.
It's the progressives vs. everybody else.

everybody else = the "other side" + Dean & Gore

They're the ones who straddle that divide. I think they could unite the party if we let them. But I don't think we want a united party if it means a compromise. I mean I do, but the two other camps don't.

Funny how compromise has changed from an art form into a sign of weakness.

[Bombtrack]

2. "THE" dlc didn't attack Dean

a few prominent DLC operatives have, but the chairman never did, and it never caucused and agreed to opose him.

Dean is a DLC democrat after all, and the only reason he isn't on there website is that he no longer has political office.

The DLC is a think tank, not a power broker or a union. It has many members with very different ideas. Kerry has an ACU rating of like 5 and he is part of the DLC.

[sybylla]

14. I'd say when the DLC puts this kind of stuff on their Blog

they've pretty much attacked Dean.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=869347


<snip>
He's flip-flopped on trade, adopting a Kucinich-Lite position that
repudiates the Clinton legacy of trade expansion and a centuries-old
Democratic tradition of support for open trade. Can he explain what
he would do to make his "fair trade" rhetoric actually work for a
stronger economy? He's the one candidate who's called for repeal of
the No Child Left Behind education reform initiative, thrilling anti-
testing zealots who don't seem to mind failing schools for poor and
minority kids. What's his vision for education reform? In his
fervor to define himself not by principle, but by maximum opposition
to Bush, he's refused to countenance letting the middle class keep
the tax cuts that accompanied the big bonanza for the wealthy. Does
he have a plan for making taxes fairer and lower for hard-working
middle-class families?
<snip>

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

3. It's the leaders (Clinton, Gore, Dean, Kerry, the DLC) vs. Democrats

All the candidates like to pretend they are "outsiders" and the DLC has become a catchphrase for "incumbents" as opposed to the specific group of federally elected Democrats that are the actual DLC.

[oinkment]

4. Centrist/progressive

My belief is that that Al Gore has moved on and no longer supports the pandering, pro-business centrist viewpoint. The DLC are worried about losing their influence and they're right in thinking that a Dean administration would reshuffle the power structure.

For some reason, they've made balanced budgets a big issue. I guess there's a philosophy that borrowing money can be good because it aids growth (like the way businesses leverage capital). In reality, though, would you rather invest in a massively overleveraged business (like Enron), or a business with lots of cash in the bank? The second option is definitely less risky. If that makes Dean centrist, so be it.

[Bombtrack]

7. the anti-Dean dems beleive there never WILL be a Dean administration

they realize he's a horrible choice if you want to defeat Bush

[rucky]

10. Welcome to DU!

Thanks for the fresh perspective.

You have no idea what we've been going through the past 48 hours.

:toast:

[newyawker99]

15. Hi oinkment!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[sybylla]

5. Wow, you're almost off the page and haven't gotten a response yet

I view it as not so much an insider/outsider thing but a populists vs. centrists. Gore, who is really a populist went to the center during the 2000 election, probably on advice of Clinton, DNC or perhaps he did so on his own because of the success Clinton had as a centrist.

But I'm enough of a newbie to politics that I can't really discuss it much further. I'm curious to see the kinds of responses you get so I'm kicking it.

[IrateCitizen]

11. I'd clarify that as populists vs. corporatists

Dean is proof that you can be a centrist populist. It's the corporatist wing of the party -- those supporting "free trade" as it is currently practiced, those making apologia for the occupation of Iraq, those supporting the interests of Wall St. over Main St. -- that are really lined up on the other side.

As a hard lefty, I have nothing against centrists per se. The ones I can't stand are those who defend corporate excess and continued militarism, along with expressing a complete disdain for the grassroots and party base -- and those are most often corporatists.

Howard Dean = centrist populist
Joe Lieberman = corporatist

[sybylla]

13. Yep, you're right

See, I'm such a newbie I forgot for a moment that Dean is a centrist too.

Thanks for the clarification.

[MIMStigator]

6. Between people who want to beat * and people who........

want their guy to be the democratic nominee

[JVS]

9. Loyalists and centrist infiltrators

[elfin]

12. Between those who want to win

And those who want to make a point and go down swinging as they do so.