Greedy old men - how the elderly are bankrupting the rest of us.

[theivoryqueen]

I am speechless. Literally. I can now only type, as words have failed me.

Meet the Greedy Grandparents
Why America's elderly are so spoiled.
By Steve Chapman
Posted Wednesday, Dec. 10, 2003, at 8:16 AM PT

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America's elderly have never had it so good. They enjoy better health than any previous generation of old people, high incomes and ample assets, access to a host of medical treatments that not only keep them alive but let them enjoy their extra years, and a riotous multitude of ways to spoil their grandchildren. Still they are not content. From gratefully accepting a basic level of assistance back in the early decades of Social Security, America's elderly have come to expect everything their durable little hearts desire.

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http://slate.msn.com/id/2092302/

[camero]

1. Think it's bad now?

Wait til the Boomers reach retirement age.

[DemBones DemBones]

4. So what do you want to do about it -- kill us all?

I don't think the original poster agreed with the article's premise that the elderly are greedy. But you seem to. Am I correct ?

I've listened to people bitch about paying into Social Security all my life. But Social Security has kept millions of retired people out of poverty, though it's having difficulty keeping pace today with the exorbitant price of prescription medications. Not that SS is supposed to pay for medication, rather that medication expenses are requiring more and more of older people's income, which is often based on SS. There are also problems because some doctors will not accept Medicare patients, much less Medicaid patients. (But the elderly are greedy? Right. . .) (Edited for clarity.)


I've always been glad to help older Americans, and hoped that younger Americans would feel the same way about helping their parents and grandparents as we age.

[theivoryqueen]

11. I do not agree with the writer of this article

however - I am stumped by this concept. I never thought of the elderly as greedy. Demanding, perhaps, in the form of my mother, but I would never use the "useless to society, let's dump them overboard" argument to justify my own selfishness. I figured that since these people nurtured me, as they decline, I am responsible for looking after them. this is traditionally how it's done, no?

[camero]

35. No, I'm not bitchin about Social Security

But we are going to have to come to terms with the fact that we have an aging population and that the majority of programs subsidize the old at the expense of the young. The stats bear this out.

Means testing some of these programs will go a long way towards saving them.

[DemBones DemBones]

45. Well, I'm not sure means testing is the answer -- I mean, sure, let's

keep the Bushes at al., the ultra rich, from drawing SS or Medicare, but the benefits just can't be cut to people who depend on them. I don't know what a typical retirement benefit is but people on SS disability only get $700-$900 a month. I know a single woman living on her $700 disability check -- don't know how she lives on that. An elderly or disabled person can have $500 or more of prescription expenses every month.

I know women in their eighties who have some stocks and savings in addition to SS but if they lost their SS, their other assets could go pretty quickly and leave nothing for long term care or special treatments (such as chemotherapy) that they may need eventually. Everyone is terrified of medical expenses. Insurance is often inadequate.

We need to make health care a right for everyone, not a luxury. And not means test except for eliminating millionaires from the system. Though since they're a small % of the population, how much would we save?

[camero]

52. Yes, I know what people on disability get.

And I've already stated we need a single payer health system. We already have a de-facto one for the elderly, so why do you want to deny it to the young? AND make them pay your bills.

[camero]

54. Also...

Eliminating the cap on SS taxes. Too many rich people get away with this.

[KayLaw]

58. Yes

I couldn't agree with you more!

[laruemtt]

55. my sweet 89-year-old

lifelong dem ma lives on soc. sec. and whatever little the four of us kids can give her. she's contributed all her life and has more class in her little fingertip than all the cabal put together. most of her living friends are in the same boat. living in florida but certainly not one of the "jet-setting" seniors a la west palm beach. i tend to believe most seniors are in her boat.

[camero]

57. I also see alot driving caddies

But that's not my call. What is my call is when the wealthy abuse the system and if you don't think it's gonna get worse, you're fooling yourself.

[laruemtt]

60. so why should hand-to-mouth

seniors like my ma have to suffer because of the caddie drivers? no accounting for the greed of those seniors with buku retirement still taking SS. THAT'S what must change. deny SS for those with over a certain amount.

[camero]

62. I did not say less should go to poor seniors.

I said we should make rich people pay more into the system. Jesus, means testing does not mean your gramma has to eat cat food. It just means that people who can take care of themselves do and people who can't we should take care of.

[laruemtt]

63. agreed.

simple and logical. so what's the prob?

[camero]

70. The problem is

some rich seniors even on this board have a problem with means testing when they are busting the budget, and it will get worse.

Geesh, this is the point I've been trying to make all along. When the boomers retire, simple demographics tell us it will only get worse.

[Malva Zebrina]

77. there are a lot in that boat

living on SS through no fault of their own.

We live on $12,000 a year. Incredible? you bet. Yet we, so far, do OK in our modest life style.

Our car is 12 years old, and was bought used to begin with. My husband recently took a 20 hour per week job in the local supermarker as a janitor. He cleans the rest rooms and the front end. If either of us should get really ill,need surgery or emergency surgery and care, our meager savings would be depleted within a month I am sure, and we would most likely lose our home, which we bought twenty years ago as a three room, two hundred year old house on one acre of land, and have added a room on to it and puchased an additional three and half acres.

We have lived our lives here in happiness--all the while contributing to the community--working until it was legal to retire and enjoy some of the rest of our lives. Now, if we get sick, and I am a diabetic at risk of getting numerous "sicknesses" ,we, most likely, cannot afford to pay for extended services in the acute care facility of the hospital. We would, in that case, because the value of the land is over 6 thousand dollars, and is our "asset" need to sell it in order to pay for those huge bills above that which any insurance would cover. This is not a very comfortable place in which to live out the remaining years of one's life.

A decision must be made--either you give up your house or you go for broke , live it up in relative happiness in a sort of a wild, Epicurean love fest, and tell them all to shove it--formulate in some clever way that your children will inherit your property before the hospital or the state takes it away in order to pay for the outrageous costs of medications and doctor bills, and hospital stays and go on your way on your path , fully realizing that all life, eventually must come to a close and that you, if you can be in control, are actually in control of that life and death.

[maxsolomon]

2. speechless why?

you agree? or you think even expressing these ideas is disrespectful to the aged?

[theivoryqueen]

6. I do not know how to respond.

I am deeply conflicted on this issue, as anyone who wishes to live forever would be. I am at a loss to understand why this world cannot get it's collective shit together to efficiently utilize our massive amounts of resources and spread the wealth so that all creatures can live in prosperity - without conflict and/or competition to meet basic needs. I am sooo with Buckminster Fuller on that.

[Blue_Chill]

3. This from Slate?

This is disgusting.

[Frederic Bastiat]

5. Oh boy you ain't seen nothing yet eom

[theivoryqueen]

8. I am having flashbacks to Logans Run....

[bleedingheart]

7. oh this is sjuch a disguting comment

"At some point—don't worry, not anytime soon—we will have to embrace a duty to stop functioning as a fiscal burden on our children and start serving as a nutritional resource for worms. "

Throw respect for the elderly out the window...

Its okay for them to have fought in WWII and worked hard to give us the opportunities we have today but we can just screw them over when they need assistance.

I have news for Mr. Chapman...it isn't just the elderly that need help with healthcare...its everyone...and as a society we are judged by how we treat the least fortunate among us and right now we aren't doing so well.

[DemBones DemBones]

15. And lots of boomers have had to take their adult children back

into their homes and/or contribute to them financially. . . Is there no appreciation for that?

Not to mention the many boomers and older people who are raising their grandchildren because their children can't or won't take responsibility for their own kids. I know so many people doing this, often for kids who have special needs, too.

Sorry, but I believe we are all responsible for all those too old, too young, or too disabled to work and support themselves. We do it for them because we'll need help ourselves some day. It's called a social contract. A society that doesn't value its children or its elderly is a society in decline.

[HawkerHurricane]

28. Mr. Chapman should volunteer

for 'nutritional resource for invertabrates' duty.

As you treat others, so should others treat you.

My wife and I are now taking care of her elderly aunt. Diabetic, legally blind, unable to walk unassisted, she is a full time job for us and our oldest daughter.
BUT
I sincerely hope that the example we provide toward her (and the wisdom she provides for us) will make our children grow up responsible and wise.

[DemBones DemBones]

37. When we were first married, in the sixties, we promised each

other and ourselves we'd do whatever we could to help our parents when they got old, and we kept that promise. They're all dead now and we have no regrets about how we treated them. It was hard on us when we moved his mother here but it was also very special to have her with us when she was dying. She knew she was loved.

They'd all be horrified at what has happened to this country, too. I'm glad they were spared.

[Skidmore]

9. My mother always told me that you can measure

integrity of a nation by the way it cares for it children, its elderly, and the infirm. We need to quit warehousing people and take care of our families. A good place to start would be to quite agreeing to be corporate slaves.

[theivoryqueen]

14. Ouch. my corporate fueled paycheck leaves me rather conflicted

[Skidmore]

18. As citizens, I believe we have contributed to this vicious

cycle. We all have developed expensive tastes and have bought into consumerism to the point that we pursue it almost mindlessly. It draws us away from our birth homes to places far away when we are young adults. It keeps us from our children at the time in life where they need us the most, and it leads us to rely on strangers to care for them. It also contributes to our not caring for our parents when they need us. The least I coudl do for my parents was to help with their physical and financial care when they were old. God knows, they never hesitated to care for me when I needed care.

[Lars39]

10. May Steve Chapman get what he so *richly* deserves in HIS old age!

The snot-nosed little shyte needs to be solely responsible, right now, for at least 2 elderly parents and one great grandparent and assorted uncles and aunts IN ADDITION to his wife and 2.5 kids. No, on second thought, he'd probably just have 'em put down. :grr:

[Cleita]

12. Typical Libertarian/Republican rant about "my money

is paying for all these old geezers". In raising the retirement age, all those old geezers will be keeping jobs that would be passed on to a new generation of workers. They won't have to worry about deductions from their paychecks because they won't have one.

[oneighty]

13. I am one of them

there peoples.

I went to the link to see how really greedy I am. I was greeted by a picture of Ms. Ann Coulter/free talking doll???

No text though.

Oh! I am so ashamed of my greed. Sure I am glad my huge fortune will not be taxed on my passing so that my greedy children can live like I do.

180

[SoCalDem]

16. Boomers "fixed" the SS and are now preparing to be screwed

"Some" retirees who are currently collecting are the last wave of true pensioners.. The ones who follow them (mainly boomers) did not (as a group) get the jobs with the guaranteed pensions.. The fact thet there were SO MANY of us boomers fattening up the SS system, ALLOWED for the ever-increasing benefits for the ones currently retired.. Some of the current recipients are "multi-dippers".. My generation most likely will NOT be.. Lots of us will have ONLY SS to rely on..

(disclaimer.. anecdotal evidence)

I know SEVERAL oldsters who have
his military pension
his civil service pension
another city/state (or other) pension
Social security
her pension
her social security..

some of these folks make more money NOW than they ever did when they were working.. They also were the ones who bought homes in the 50's when houses were cheap.. These homes were bought for as little as 15,000 and are now being sold by these folks for 200,000 and up.. They can pay CASH for a smaller home, and live very well on their pensions..

MY generation will NEVER have the comfortable retirement that they enjoy now..There is not a HUGE group behind us who will be able to provide the money necessary for a comfortable retirement for us.. We paid enough in to cover the ones now and to build a reserve for ourselves, but that money was stolen.. NOT BY US.. but we will be the ones to get less..even though we paid MORE.. For the younger ones to call us greedy and bitch about"having to pay for us" is annoying..

We were the ripped off generation.. After our "bulge" passes through the "beast", things will be ok.. So don't worry, gen XYZ, in YOUR lifetime,. things should be better.. Most of us will be too poor to afford decent medical care.. with any luck, we will die sooner and release the burden on you :(

[theivoryqueen]

20. that felt like you reached out and slapped me in the brain

as the very last year of boomerhood, I fear a similar fate to that which you described. This is why I am smoking and drinking as much as humanly possible........

[DemBones DemBones]

26. And it's not our fault that pensions have gone the way of the

dinosaur for most -- or that some in our parents' generation did well, with pensions plus Social Security -- and equity in homes bought cheap. Nor is it THEIR fault for those beneficial conditions. They also lived through the Depression and most were frugal.

Place the blame on those who truly deserve scorn -- the greedy who exploit others, the CEO's who earn hundreds of times what an employee does.

Oh, :grr: :grr: :grr:

[SoCalDem]

30. DemBones,DemBones.. I was not blaming the ones retired..

I hope that's not what you thought.. I agree with you, too..The Reagan years were devastatingfor boomers.. A lot of the basic underpinning was removed silently and very wickedly.. Every time something went "away" it was portrayed as a "reform".. Sound familiar?? The reforms were FOR THE CORPORATIONS...NOT FOR US !!!

The folks who are retired now, played by the rules.. Their rules were fair.. OURS are NOT FAIR..

That's why the repubes are in a frenzy now..They must finish the job FAST.. The boomers are almost there at the finish line and the repubes are sandblasting that line as we speak.. The others are running ahead with a bucket of paint.. We just don't know how far ahead they are..:(

[theivoryqueen]

31. clever analysis

One wonders what will happen when a majority of registered voters finds themselves utterly disenfranchised....

[DemBones DemBones]

32. No, no, I was agreeing with you and carrying on from what you

said. We know what's going on, even if the loser who wrote the article doesn't. Bet his parents put him through school and sacrificed to do it.

:grr:

[SoCalDem]

43. and to add this..

During the Reagan/Bush1 years, the boomers were YOUNG.. we were moving all over the place, we had small kids, we were trying to "climb the ladder".. We were , sadly, not paying attention to all the changes that the repubes were making.. It would impact our own futures, to be sure, but we had other fish to fry, and we assumed that our government would not do things that were detrimental to us..

We were not thinking long-term.. When you are 25, you are thinking about when you get to be 30.. 65 is a lifetime away, and you always assume that things will "work out"..

The 80's were not kind to the common person.. I believe the 80's were when the real change happened.. The "Greed is Good" mantra came from then and the 90's only re-inforced that ideal..

Sharing became passe' and because we were the adults during those years we get tarred with that same brush.. Remember, young ones, most of the ordinary ones among us were just living our lives,paying our bills,raising our kids back then.. The ones who were changing those rules were some of the very people who are ruining america rigfht now.. They were younger then, but just as wicked.. We are seeing phase two of their plan..

Believe me... YOU are phase three... I guarantee you.. It will be WORSE!!

[KoKo]

51. Agree DemBones! They struggled to afford a little $10,000 house after

WWII and saved money and worked hard to educate their kids. They weren't buying "mini-mansions" and doing "tear downs" of other houses to show off their lifestyle. They lived through horrible shortages during the depression and then WWII.

So Cal, I can't believe you would begrudge these folks what they have!

[SoCalDem]

56. I do not begrudge THEM a btt..

My point is that they played by the rules and they are receiving their rewards.. WE had the rules all changed, and unfortunately, will suffer greatly because of it..

The people who are retired now, did have hardships, but a lot of those hardships were SHARED by the whole country.. People were poor, but they did not KNOW they were poor, because everyone they KNEW was in the same boat..

The jobs that the returning soldiers got were mostly UNION jobs with good retirement plans.. These people were able to work a whole career at one place.. None of that is true for THEIR children..

I do not BLAME them at all, in fact I would almost be willing to trade places with some of them.. I would gladly exchange some of my future years for some security that I know will be lacking in MY older years..

[Cleita]

34. This one reason your generation should be fighting for

this. This was Gore's locked box. He wanted to put away SS money for the future for the baby boomers. Of course the BFEE and the extreme right wing of the Republican Party want to eliminate it altogether in favor of privitization. It's not that you won't have that deduction taken from your check, you still will, it's just that the people who it was supposed to benefit from it won't.

It will be privatized, poured into corporations as investments and if there is nothing left, well too bad, you made bad investment choices. I already am getting spammed with the "retirement consultants" telling me where to put my money. This is what will happen to scores of naive old people in the future and their retirement will be cleaned out but later generations will still have that deduction taken out of their checks.

[northzax]

40. even the lock box was baloney

to be perfectly honest. Social Security is running a surplus for a coupld of decades now. Do you know where that surplus is? in government bods. Guess who gets to pay those government bonds? er, us. so the boomers borrowed from themselves, and we have to pay the interest. seems reasonable.

[carolinayellowdog]

17. Greedy *rich* old people are the problem

The author suggests raising the retirement age as the only possible way to save Social Security. Odd that means testing does not even occur to him. It might not be politically feasible because the wealthiest have the most political clout, but denying SSI to people with high incomes would save an equal amount of money and do a lot less harm than raising the retirement age.

[BlueEyedSon]

24. Yeah, I suppose greedy, rich young & middle aged people

are ok.....

[theivoryqueen]

27. as long as they are blue-eyed...

[JailBush]

19. Steve Chapman vs Bruce Champan (Reagan, Discovery Institute)

This Steve Chapman reminds me of Bruce Chapman, a Ronald Reagan associate who has been elected to office in Washington State and is now a bigwig with the Discovery Institute, a really bizarre fusion of corporate pimps and creationism. The Discovery Institute's board members include some of Seattle's vilest creatures.

http://www.discovery.org/

[theivoryqueen]

23. yipes, the article titled "Is our deficit too small?" convinced me.

[BlueEyedSon]

21. BABIES are greedy!

Just look at them... helpless, always TAKING! No use to society at all. They don't work in the factory or shop at the Wal-mart!

[theivoryqueen]

25. same with dogs...

eat sleep poop scratch pet me repeat......

[camero]

41. Babies don't have money saved

I just have a problem with the wealthy collecting SS and Medicare when they can perfectly afford to pay for it themselves.

If we ever get around to instituting a single payer system of health, one problem will be solved but we still have another one ahead. Anybody that looks at the demographics of the country knows this.

[DemBones DemBones]

47. See my reply to you upthread -- basically, if you make those

who have some savings spend it all by denying them SS through means testing, what happens when they get cancer or another expensive to treat condition, or require long term care? Medicare does NOT pay for long term care.

[camero]

50. Like I said

we need a single payer health system. Look, we're going to have to make some hard choices whether you like it or not. The day of reckoning is coming fast. The budget is not a bottomless cup of coffee as you think it is.

[KayLaw]

64. Almost agree

But I really only have problems with a couple of seniors I personally know ( rich Republicans ) who bitch and moan about people who take money from government programs and yet willingly accept SS and Medicare dollars. I'm almost beyond caring about myself, but will there be money for my child, who is 12 and so disabled, he can't even tie his shoes?

[camero]

69. That's what we also should be trying to fix

I also have a problem with rich repubs who don't mind taking "thier" handout.

[eric_schafer]

22. there is no "rest of us"

there is only us

[DemBones DemBones]

29. Well said! I know I've helped support people who've

hurt me and society by their unfortunate votes, or even by more direct actions, but I don't think about them, I think about the good people who have worked hard and done their best to be good citizens, parents, friends, and neighbors.

Even Republicans are part of "us".

[creativelcro]

33. of course, if this greedy young man could

have it all without busting his ass for 40 years he wouldn't turn it down

[northzax]

36. actually, I think he's got a point

Social Security and Medicare are two of the best things this country has ever done. period. and when they were established, the populatin could pay for them. As it stands now, for the past ten years, at least, the boomer generation has been rapidly dissasembling the ability of the population to pay for these effort. Clinton, Chimpy, Grover Nordquist, Dick Cheney, all of them are boomers, it's y'alls' fucking fault, you know that? YOU run the country. YOU run the senate. and the House and the White House. and you are rapidly creating things that you are unwilling to pay for. We continue to refinance government debt to push it a little more down the line. Well guess what? I'm what's a little more down the line, and I'm inheriting a set of maxed out visa cards and a farm with two mortgages. The Boomer generation has allowed the resources to be spent. And don't tell me it was someone else, the Boomers have been the largest population of voting age people in this country for 15 years. When Reagan eliminated the cost of housing from inflation, ruining COLA increases, you did nothing. When Social Security spent 20 years of assets, your surplus, financing the overspending of the rest of government, you did nothing. when Clinton gutted spending on the poor, you did nothing. As Bush guts every other social net, you do nothing. As Every president from Reagan to Chimpy gutted public education, you did nothing. See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil, as long as Social Security is there, no fear, it's not really money.

You want to know why the money isn't there? because you've already spent it. You have sqandered the fruits of the most productive generation in world history. When confronted with almost unspeakablwe wealth, it wasn't enough, and you spent, not just my inheritance, but my income as well. I can expect to spend my entire working life paying 35-40 percent of my tax dollars, not on investments in the country, but on paying your bar tab. luckily, I can say that you have spent the money wisely, we have the best national infrastructure, an entire nation in which every school is first rate, the best air traffic control systems in the world, the best public transportation, the best public services. oh, wait, no we don't we have some of the worst. What the hell did you spend it on? You double mortgaged the farm, and then failed, not only to improve it, but to do even the most basic maintenance. The Boomer generation has engaged in financial malfeaseance for 20 years, as awful as Enron, WorldCom and Arthur Andersen combined.

Please don't see this as a personal attack on anyone in particular. It is a reference to the mass behaviour of an entire generation of people, many of whom find it disgusting and have worked, and will continue to work, to change the system to a more responsible one.

[camero]

38. That is a great point.

eom.

[DemBones DemBones]

49. Have YOU been able to get the government to listen to you

and do (or not do) what you lobbied for?

See my reply to Northzax for more.

[camero]

53. They listen to you obviously

Look at the budget.

[Cleita]

39. Actually we can still pay for them and even more

in the way of social programs to benefit all. It's a matter of redirecting our spending for the needs of the people not the needs of the corporations.

[Skidmore]

42. What Cleita said...

n/t

[northzax]

44. there's no doubt about it

but every year the Boomer generation fails to change this habit, it will take longer and longer to fix. boomers run the country, they need to take some responsiblity for the issues at hand, not pass the buck as they have all along.

[Cheswick2.0]

46. from a boomer

please come join us on this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=522786&mesg_id=522786

[DemBones DemBones]

48. What can we do? We write letters and make phone calls, they do

whatever they damn well please. We vote for Democrats and they do the same damn thing as the Republicans!

I'm supporting Kucinich and being told only Dean can win. Dean is a Republican in Democratic clothing, will probably be far worse than Clinton if elected, but he's got a lot of people convinced that they "have the power" because they're "connecting" at Meet-Ups and writing letters to Al Gore -- and ooh, look, Al Gore listened, he endorsed Dean! Do you believe those letters got Gore to endorse Dean? If so, I have a real estate deal. . .

Tell me, have YOU been able to stop the government from doing anything?

If so, tell us how. If not, why are we supposed to be able to do it?

[northzax]

71. well, it sounds to me

like you belong to the group that I specifically pointed out as working against this squandering of resources, and for that I congratulate and treasure you and everyone like you. It's only a shame that there aren't 20 million more of you to ensure your legacy.

In moy own personal opinion, everyone has the responsibility to leave their little corner of the world a better place than when they got there. It's kinda like no impact camping, if everyone did it, we'd be in much better shape. As a general rule, however, the last several generations have reaped the profits of their parents. My Parents are early boomers, and they reaped the benefits of the frugality and sacrafice of their parents, who paid, in the great depression, for the irresponsilbity of their parents. THIS IS A GENERAL RULE. it hardly applies to everyone, just to the national emotions of the group that is in ascendancy at the time. At no time did I intend to call out anyone on this board, or anyone else by name specifically, for squandering our great national moment, and passing on the bill to my generation (frankly, if we can, you don't think we'll pass it on? of course we will, why pay your bar tab if you can force the next guy to?)

Squandering our recources is a national disease, one the Boomers, as the largest and wealthiest segment of the population, were in the best situation to remedy. The invaluable efforts by people such as you have slowed the damage, but it was simply not possible for the few with real foresight to convince the rest to pay attention. It sucks being Cassandra.

what we need to recognize, as progressives, is that our collective efforts to preserve something of value for our children and grandchildren have, just like our efforts to prevent the squandering of lives in Iraq, FAILED. WE FAILED. we need to deal with that and figure out how not to fail in the future. not the "we" I include myself in the responsibility, I am a Citizen of the US, and therefore as responsible for the long term trends of our government and social policy as everyone else. The difference is that my parents have had 45 years of political influence to change things, and I've had only 9. Therefore, they (and you, I'm sorry to say) bear a greater share of the responsibility. If I haven't effected real change by the time I'm 63, like my Parents, I will have assumed a great responsibility than my children at the time. We are all responsible for our collective actions, and our response to them. We enabled Ken Lay to loot Enron, we enabled the looting of pensions, and the growing wealth disparity, it's time to take it back.

By the way, thank you for your civility in responding, and realizing that I was not making a personal attack on anyone in particular. I reiterate that I value, above all else, those memebers of our society that fight for the powerless. 15 years ago, I was powerless, thank you for fighting on my behalf.

[msmcghee]

65. At first I thought you were joking.

But now I see what a disgusting excuse for a human being you really are.

By your logic those "groups" who were in control should be held accountable - and pay the consequences. So let's play your idiotic blame game.

There's one group that stands out from all the rest, from the boomers, the X, Y and Z generation, for the terrible decisions that were made over the last 100 years. It's called white males.

You are the ones that have fucked up this country and the whole world. Every war was started by you - and you have killed and maimed millions of women and children. The damage you have done to humanity in this last century is incalculable. In a sensible world you whould spend the rest of your lives in work-prisons where you can't do any more damage to the world - but the rest of us could live off your labor.

What, you say you don't like war? You voted for peaceful candidates? Well that's too bad. You are a white male and your kind did it. Therefore I can say you did nothing to stop it. And I get to blame you which justifies me throwing you in prison and having you make my life easier. You get to pay, hommes.

What, you say many women and black males voted for war mongers like Nixon and Reagan and BushI and II? So what I say? White males led you and other white males to do this destruction. White males voted in large numbers to support the warmongers - more than half of women voted against them. Besides, somebody will have to keep the trains running while all you guys are in prison.

Obviously this logic is as idiotic as your rant. And obviously you have no sense of how a civil society works much less this one. Go back to your hole.

This is the first time I ever felt such deep disgust for another DU'r. You have no business calling yourself a liberal or a progressive. I need to take shower.

Added on edit: This is a perfect example of those soft-headed faux liberals who love the trendy side of progressive politics - but whose liberal values are only as deep as their wallets. These are the one's who, when they start to make some money in life, suddenly find that taking responsibility for those who are not so fortunate doesn't make so much sense any more. Fortunately, most of us here at DU are not in that category.

[northzax]

72. a few small question from my hole

I hope it's ok that I poked my head out to ask them...please don't take too long of a shower, that uses a lot of energy, you know.

how do you know how much money I make, just out of curiosity?

Can I get a whip to stand over the cages too? or will you be pulling a micheal jackson routine on my complexion?

why is it that I am putatively responsible for the sins of previous generations, but you aren't responsible for the sins of yours?

[karabekian]

59. it will go bankrupt from the boomers

with out a change it will go bankrupt when the boomers retire. short of increasing taxes I don't see a way out. Other than reform which I doubt would be popular.

Thats why I am saving so I can pay for my retirement and health care my self. I am not going to rely on the government to provide this.

You can stop the government from doing things. It would probably involve violence and revolt though.

[SoCalDem]

61. Here's the deal..

We boomers HAD OUR TAXES RAISED A BUNCH.. Know why?? So that we could improve social security for all the folks who retired during the 70's,80's, and 90's...AND have enough extra in there for US..when our turn came..

RThe greedy bastards in CONGRESS and REAGAN/BUSH1, and now BUSHII spent it..

We DID put more than enough into the "kitty" to pay for ourselves..

Contrary to popular belief, the taxes in the US are low compared to other places in the world.. We pay a bit less, and get very little in exchange.. They may pay out more in $, but look what they get for their taxes..

go to the doctor..pay ZERO
go to the pharmacy...pay ZERO
kids can go to college for next to NOTHING
oldsters are guaranteed a pension..

The "other countries" are demonized for their socialistic tendencies, but when a state cares for its people, and the workers pay taxes to cover it, THAT is an investment.. Knowing that your own future and that of your kids, is a stress reliever like no other... and it allows for savings because you know that your basic needs will be met..

That is freedom

[camero]

66. Poverty rates by age.

are here.... http://www.wrei.org/projects/taw/aw8_table6-5.pdf

as you can see, Males over the age of 45 have the lowest poverty rate while females under 18 have the highest.

Males in both the 45-64 and over 65 age category have poverty rates of 7% while females under 18 have a poverty rate of 20%.

[camero]

67. Ooops, sorry

I put it in the wrong place.

[KayLaw]

74. You are so right

It is such a gamble to live in this country. If you are able-bodied and healthy and stay that way for a long time and your mate and children are the same, you may end in good shape. But should you or a family member become seriously ill or disabled, you could end up on the streets.
Right after the 2000 fiasco, I heard a young man say on the radio that he had voted for Bush because Bush would reduce taxes for the wealthy. The DJ asked if he were wealthy and the guy said, no, but I may be someday. Brother!

[theboss]

68. Nasty tone, but the article raises legitimate points

Demographics is destiny, as they say.

A lot of people have a basic misunderstanding of Social Security. The money I pay now does not go into a little account with my name on it. It is used to pay for current beneficiaires. In 1960, there were five workers for every beneficiary. It will soon be two worker for every beneficiary.

This system is not going to be able to handle this without:

1. A reduction in benefits;
2. An increase in taxes; or
3. A reform of the system.

[KayLaw]

73. True

But didn't Al Gore have such a plan?

[Mountainman]

75. Turning the young against the old is a conservative tactic

Nobody wins. The old will lose their social security and the young will never get it.

We need to work together to build a better society for all not let the conservative greed turn us against each other.

[Cleita]

76. Right on Mountainman.

I have been listening to this conservative complaint for decades. It gets rewritten in different words for the audience it's trying to reach but it's the same old conservative drivel.

[eleny]

78. So this is how right wringers characterize "The Greatest Generation"?

As if the conservatives of today aren't spoiling themselves with tax cuts and advantages while maligning the older generation.

They're asking for a full blown revolution in the streets, I tell ya. Mark my words - the powder keg will finally blow when the Draft is brought back.

[northzax]

79. er, the boomers aren't the "greatest generation"

they are the children of the "greatest generation."